Stay away from Emirates. (EK) [Archive]

puff m'call

14th Oct 2016, 06:58

How clear do you need a message to be?

If you need clarification then read the threads below, yes it's all true! and so are all the other bits of information on here telling you, no, warning you about joining this airline.

Everything about working for this airline is in a down hill spiral, I know because I'm here watching it. (Yes I've done something about it before you ask)

My advice for what it's worth is stay away, stay where you are because "All that glitters is NOT gold"

1. Recruitment>Retention.

2. EK management has lost it.

3. This is really the end...

Stay where you are because "All that glitters is NOT gold"

Talparc

14th Oct 2016, 08:21

Very true post.
It's worth than working in a **** hole!
Waste of time, resources, life, health.

Flyingishere

14th Oct 2016, 08:51

BigGeordie

14th Oct 2016, 09:36

In 5 years time will he still be single and not interested in command? A lot of things can change in your late 20's. If he decides that, actually, he would quite like to be a Captain after all he will be 5 years further down the seniority list at an airline in his home country- and possibly still 5 years away from a command in Emirates. This is not an industry that encourages people to change jobs a lot.

And, actually, a lot of people are angry.

rcm777

14th Oct 2016, 11:24

For God's sake , just pack and leave ! Y
We don't need your negativity around. Don't do it to yourself or to us . Life is short

notapilot15

14th Oct 2016, 11:25

it's still a much better package than most airlines around the globe

It is not when you factor in home base (vs) hermit kingdom. Expats need not put up with this.

The Outlaw

14th Oct 2016, 12:05

rcm,

I disagree... let puff m call state the truth about the place. The reason it sounds negative is BECAUSE ITS NEGATIVE and there is going to be a Herculean storm of sh1t coming here very soon.

rcm777

14th Oct 2016, 12:29

rcm,

I disagree... let puff m call state the truth about the place. The reason it sounds negative is BECAUSE ITS NEGATIVE and there is going to be a Herculean storm of sh1t coming here very soon.

Great ! I suggest you share the container with him and LEAVE before the storm

Spikedog

14th Oct 2016, 13:15

Someone is angry!

You are aware that at the moment people are looking at Emirates as a better, much better option than what they are currently facing and although EK is struggling and going downhill it's still a much better package than most airlines around the globe, even in Europe?

Posting this crap and being so angry doesn't help. You are warning people for your experience which is fine, but you could be 30+ up for command and being screwed in the pooch while your wife and kids are getting annoyed with Dubai and taking it out on you while you take your anger out on them.

Now there is a 26 year old, single, 4k + hours thinking about EK just to gain experience, fly WB and make more money to pay of his immense flight school loan. Not interested in command, gone in 5 years and just wants to work 100+ hours in order to make as much money as possible. How is EK a bad option for him?

I think you'll find most current Emirates pilots are angry at the way we are being treated, but hey no one has to believe all these negative posts and they can come and experience life at Emirates first hand!

I'm sorry, but once you take into account the cost of living here then it's not a much better package than in Europe or other countries around the world.

Doing 100+ hours per month is not a good option because it's killing us. Even some Emirates doctors will tell you that! You might pay off your loan quicker, but then you'll die earlier and not be able to enjoy as much of your loan free life as most pilots on humane rosters.

Spikedog

14th Oct 2016, 13:22

For God's sake , just pack and leave ! Y
We don't need your negativity around. Don't do it to yourself or to us . Life is short

If you don't like the negativity then I wouldn't come onto this site because that's all you're going to get due to the treatment of Emirates crew over the past years (if you hadn't realised by now).

In fact, let's play a game ..... can you post something positive about Emirates?

ExDubai

14th Oct 2016, 13:38

...In fact, let's play a game ..... can you post something positive about Emirates?
O.K, Popcorn is ready :}

donpizmeov

14th Oct 2016, 13:40

How about...the pay is in the bank every 26th?
Its just a job. The ****e flows from one fleet to another. Just try and keep it off your shoes.

CaptainChipotle

14th Oct 2016, 13:48

How about...the pay is in the bank every 26th?
Its just a job. The ****e flows from one fleet to another. Just try and keep it off your shoes.

Don is on the "gentlemans fleet" at EK. Yes they pay us on time every month.

Honestly though, put yourself in managements shoes for a minute. Just think about it... ...what would you do IF you knew you could do whatever you wanted and people would bend over and take it? A few people might actually leave, but most people will go on a group forum and complain. Other than that, it's status quo. They do what they want, we accept it. We hate it, but we accept it. Unless we actually leave.

electricdeathjet

14th Oct 2016, 14:15

Guys I think this negativity about EK needs to be kerbed down a level or two.

This is a great place for discussing rumours, news, information and sharing our experiences from our great leaders, but I'm afraid we might end up getting Banned from using this site like our neighbouring airline.

We all know how desperate the airline is and the saying that any news is good news might not cut it here any more.

I'm not a troll or party pooper but lets be a little tactful before this platform is taken away from us.

Continental-520

14th Oct 2016, 15:38

Frankly, it needs to be viewed with a big picture perspective. When I joined my current airline 5 years ago, there was a similar amount of sentiment towards that airline as there is now about EK. People told me I was mad to be taking the job, especially leaving a command position in my previous airline.

It turned out to be the best thing I ever did for my career. It hasn't been without its lows and times when I did ask myself why, but in the grand scheme of things it's been good. And that will be the case in any airline.

What EK are going through at the moment is a 'phase' that most airlines (especially in the Middle East) go through at one point or another.
In a few years, those at EK who sit through it will most likely remember this phase and be glad it is done with (since as many say, it is not sustainable, thereby mandating change), those who left will be hopefully in a better situation for them and in 100 years, none of this will matter.

Don't react emotionally, and definitely do not make a decision until you have to make one.

520.

sluggums

14th Oct 2016, 16:00

Oh it's a 'phase' is it...? Approx 15 years and counting. One Hell of a phase...

fantom

14th Oct 2016, 16:31

Electric speaks wisely; it would be a pity to see this go the same way as the unmentionable.

MusingMonk

14th Oct 2016, 17:47

I don't understand the guys who complain about the negativity ...?? Why do you even have an account in pprune if you dont want it ??

no one is forcing you to even click on the posts..

I am guessing you are f@cking confused in your mind yourself and just trying to convince yourself otherwise..

people come here to get rid of the **** filled up in their heads by the exploitation and treatment as slaves.. none of us can do a thing about anything .. We have just one option.. thats to leave thats all..

so we are gonna come here and say what we wanna say to each other.. so that some of the sadist costa spies can read what we write here and atleast have an idea how much f@cked up things really are..

I'm guessing you even read my stupid post till here.. 'cause you dont have a f@cking life.. just like us..

AlanPardew

14th Oct 2016, 19:03

Spikedog

14th Oct 2016, 19:19

How about...the pay is in the bank every 26th?
Its just a job. The ****e flows from one fleet to another. Just try and keep it off your shoes.

So far the only positive thing about Emirates is that they pay on time.

Keep them coming we need to entice pilots......

notapilot15

14th Oct 2016, 19:27

Apparently only big picture issues are

1) Airbus not building 200 x A380NEOs
2) US3 not allowing to dump capacity ,lower prices and 5th freedom flights
3) ULCCs like Norwegian and Scoot competing

reptile

14th Oct 2016, 20:05

It's not the rats who first abandon a sinking ship, it's the crew members who know how to swim........

wizard1

14th Oct 2016, 22:03

It's hard to know where to begin. In some ways the issues within Emirates are symptomatic of the problems that beset Dubai. An economy bereft of cash and investment trying to prop up a property development splurge that can only have an unhappy ending. Has anyone taken a drive towards the outer reaches? Houses upon houses in various states of completion. It's like something out of Mad Max. IMHO they will never be sold and the whole ponzi scheme will come crashing down within 18months. Pretty much the same at EK. The airline has bitten off more than it can chew. Dwindling local demand from a region that has seen its core commodity halve in price, combined with a requirement to appease the local populace with jobs that many are unqualified for, with a management structure rewarded by a staggeringly short sighted outlook and now the squeeze is on. I can't see a way out. Oil will never top $60 (at that price all the U.S. shale comes back online) so the region is in for prolonged decline. Again just my opinion. Sad, unnecessary, but I'm pretty sure unavoidable. Sell your property while you can. Intrinsically, poured concrete in the desert is worth nothing. Get out while you can and cut your losses. At least the dollar is up. Remember this - the locals do not care one single iota for you. Never have never will.

nolimitholdem

14th Oct 2016, 23:56

While I can appreciate that Continental-520 is trying to bring some balance to the discussion, unfortunately his comments are arguing from a completely false premise. EK is not going through a "phase", at least not in the sense that it's just one big cycle that will eventually swing back to the norm. There is no precedent in their history for what is happening: massive employee retention and recruitment problems. Suspected yield issues. Increased competition from the other ME carriers and the ULCC's mentioned. Global economy entering slow-to-no growth.

Beating the slaves harder just isn't going to work this time.

wizard1,

Funny you should reference Mad Max. I clearly remember driving through Business Bay many times during the construction boom, looking at all the dark, silent concrete shells of those shoddily-constructed high-rises. And thinking how it would make the perfect set for some dystopian nightmare film of the future. I have a feeling that one day, perhaps a decade or so from now, others will drive through the same area and find an eerily quiet, abandoned site with row upon row of hulking partially-completed towers of concrete. And wonder "wth were they thinking?!".

Continental-520

15th Oct 2016, 03:53

Oh it's a 'phase' is it...? Approx 15 years and counting. One Hell of a phase...
Yep, and many here will attest that 10 years ago the scene was entirely different. Happier employees, sustainable rosters, competitive remuneration package.
If you look at the employee satisfaction of any airline, it is never at a constant. If EK employee satisfaction was always as low as it is now, they would not have been able to grow without reducing their minimum joining requirements many years ago.

nolimitholdem,

As you're eluding, the root cause of the problems at EK are the management's reaction to external factors. QR have competed since the late 1990s and EY since 2004. Prior to that (and still now) the competition has existed elsewhere (SQ, MH, BA, etc), so it was just further afield.
And if the GFC of 2008/2009 wasn't symbolic of a global economic slowdown that EK had to tackle like everyone else, then I don't know what is. So it isn't unprecedented - maybe just being dealt with by different people in the middle.

520.

Cantbebothered

15th Oct 2016, 04:44

Oh it's a 'phase' is it...? Approx 15 years and counting. One Hell of a phase...
Decline only really started in 2008 when the fancy EGHQ building was finished and everyone moved there. Before 2008 it was pretty good! So I would say the last 8 years...definitely not the last 15 years.

nolimitholdem

15th Oct 2016, 05:17

Continental-520,

As you state, employee satisfaction in the past was higher. And I would submit that the competition locally was much less in the past. These factors and the others mentioned have not moved in cycles, they have trended steadily to the negative for EK. Hence, I consider them "unprecedented" in that EK has not had to deal with them in such magnitude in the past. They most certainly have not gone through "phases" in the past where they - for example - struggled to attract experienced pilots. Until fairly recently they had their pick of the crop. Certainly, they have faced crises such as the 2008 GFC common to all carriers. But that's not really relevant.

I would also take issue with the statement that the root cause of EK's problems are their reactions to external factors. The majority of their current problems are self-inflicted, they've completely lost the plot on how to manage any company's biggest, most valuable resource: their people. The external factors are, as you note, common to all players.

Point is, the pendulum is not going to swing back magically as you seem hopeful it will. Radical changes would be necessary to effect that, and it's plainly obvious the will/competence/humility is not there to do so. It's a slow-motion train wreck.

But I do understand the need to try and stay positive and justify one's decisions. Not meant facetiously, one does what one has to put up with a situation.

sluggums

15th Oct 2016, 05:50

I disagree it's only been since 2008'ish. Yes, people were happier in 2008, but the rot had already set in from somewhat before the 'you're all lazy pilots' meeting in 2004.

Frog in the water principle....

fatbus

15th Oct 2016, 06:23

I think it was good until the "cost neutral " adjustment

ruserious

15th Oct 2016, 07:27

Yep fatbus is right, it's all about perspective, the longer you have been here, the longer the rose tinted glasses have been binned

Continental-520

15th Oct 2016, 10:22

Nolimitholdem,

These factors and the others mentioned have not moved in cycles, they have trended steadily to the negative for EK. Hence, I consider them "unprecedented" in that EK has not had to deal with them in such magnitude in the past.

And therein lies the point. Change can be permanent or cyclic. If something changes to an unsustainable state, such as EK is changing now, then a case can be made that it is a cyclic change, or at least that further change to a contrary trend is inevitable, since it cannot continue in a downward trend indefinitely if it is to exist in the longer term.

Some may say that it has been in a downward trend for a very long time, which may well be true, but a cycle or phase can have a very long spanning crest and trough, so it comes down to whether you can be bothered waiting it out. You have been in this game long enough to know what I mean.

I would also take issue with the statement that the root cause of EK's problems are their reactions to external factors. The majority of their current problems are self-inflicted, they've completely lost the plot on how to manage any company's biggest, most valuable resource: their people. The external factors are, as you note, common to all players.

True. Workforce engagement is imperative. As I said in my original post though, it is possible to re-engage them as I have seen in two airlines over the last 15 years. I don't think EK will sink to the lows that some predict.

Point is, the pendulum is not going to swing back magically as you seem hopeful it will. Radical changes would be necessary to effect that, and it's plainly obvious the will/competence/humility is not there to do so. It's a slow-motion train wreck.

I'm not hopeful, as it doesn't make any difference to me - I don't work there. I just think that many guys may be likely to overreact or react emotionally to the recent change in policy and the current working environment. A management shake up would probably be sufficiently radical. Given how often airlines change management, it's more than likely in the next two years. Tim isn't getting any younger and the aftermath of an accident is often a catalyst in closet clean outs.

We lost a LOT of good quality guys here across the pond in 2013. And the airline deserved to lose them, just like EK deserves to lose those leaving now, but had they just stuck it out another 6-12 months, many would've been far better off than joining the bottom of the list somewhere else. Depends what your priorities are I guess, and why you came to the Middle East in the first place.

520.

notapilot15

15th Oct 2016, 11:50

I just think that many guys may be likely to overreact or react emotionally to the recent change in policy and the current working environment.

Folks are reacting to change after change after change. What makes you think next change will not impact you?

A management shake up would probably be sufficiently radical.

It is very difficult. Whole enterprise was built on how great STC is, even though every one knows it is the unlimited access to debt/cash made available by Dubai rulers so far enabled STC to play with it. Now they have to run the company like others.

How to put a positive spin without accepting there is a crisis. I doubt STC is capable of reading between lines and announce retirement.

BTW, STC still looking to buy 200 x A380NEOs.

ekpilot

15th Oct 2016, 13:40

EK, Dubai, UAE, GCC - the illusion of modernity, guys. Always keep that in mind. If you think the wrapping is representative of the contents you are not going to last here.

Continental-520

15th Oct 2016, 15:12

notapilot15,

Folks are reacting to change after change after change. What makes you think next change will not impact you?

Quite a few already have impacted me, and I don't think that future changes may not. In fact, we may get an influx of pilots as a result of what is going on at EK at the moment, and that will impact me, but the difference is I won't spit the dummy and throw the toys out of the cot just because the change isn't something beneficial to my own situation. This all boils down to what alternatives each of us have available.

520.

anson harris

15th Oct 2016, 15:27

I left EK some time ago, but I seem to remember some employee satisfaction survey that I kept getting hassled to do. What was the outcome of that?

gardenshed

15th Oct 2016, 15:50

Still waiting for them to get back to us on that one.

777boyindubai

15th Oct 2016, 15:52

Like AAR's departure.... it is LONG overdue...

Life Vest

16th Oct 2016, 06:35

The move into EGHQ accelerated the decline, prior to that you could pop in and talk to your managers and for a short time after the move. Then the security desk went in and you were only allowed in to the 3rd Floor managers if you had an appointment.
Good luck getting one of those. What a great way to stop the complaints.
I rang 5 different manager and superintendent numbers last week during normal working hours to get some information. No one answered their phone and despite leaving messages, no one called back. Sums it up I think.

glofish

16th Oct 2016, 06:51

Old wisdom i remember from officers training:

Every soldier is entitled to an answer, especially to the one he does not like.
If you don't answer, you lose him and consequently the battle.

sluggums

16th Oct 2016, 10:55

You've used the word 'training'. I strongly suspect none of them have had any positive training, not to mention the barest of qualifications for the position they're in.

glofish

18th Oct 2016, 08:10

.... and i'm growing tired of the morons who work in aviation for less than dishing out burgers.

This job deserves people with good qualifications and it deserves to be remunerated accordingly with working conditions that enable to practice it until your retirement and deliver a good and safe product.

Anyone telling off pilots who want to keep this up in their outfit by lamenting about their own crap conditions should really simply go and dish out burgers. :yuk:

falconeasydriver

18th Oct 2016, 08:19

Just popped in to say hi, and it would appear either a management Costa whalla has posted, or worse a professional pilot who puts money above fatigue, health and of course by inference...safety.
Sealear, you sir deserve a prize for the dumbest post of the day....an all expenses paid trip to the proctologist....to remove your own head.

777boyindubai

18th Oct 2016, 08:31

Sealear. Mate. Why don't you try see hear? Read the posts. Many tens of them. Do tell us what qualifies you to comment about the "moaners?" They are truth tellers. Unlike EK Management.

777boyindubai

18th Oct 2016, 09:32

Do you know the cost of living in DXB?
You may make half the money but DXB is probably twice as expensive.

Do you know the cost of Schooling in DXB?
You may also know that EK can vary the cost and amounts they give you with no reference to your contract. You may be MASSIVELY out of pocket.

Do you know about the Labour Law (or lack of) in DXB?
You may know you have no protection at all here. Zero.

Do yourself a big favour, if you are not a troll, and come here and cost up your monthly outgoings and see what income you need to enjoy what you currently have.

T's and C's heading south in our industry....

Anyway, all the best in whatever decision you make....

alwayzinit

18th Oct 2016, 09:34

Lets be honest, emotions are, understandably, running high on both sides of this argument.
Without doubt the T+Cs at EK have nosedived consistently for as long as I have been with EK, 10 yrs, however, those of us in situ can only relay our take on current events, we cannot know what factors are effecting those who still find the idea of EK attractive.
Mrs A and I have financed our children through University and beyond, plus all the other financial commitments associated with transitioning children to independent adults. Primarily thanks to the money paid by EK on the 26th of each month.
HOWEVER, the price that I( and all the other EK Pilots) have physically paid is significant. Leading to Mrs A and me making the required plans to try and "stop the rot" physically.
I do not wish to belittle those who currently fly short haul multisector days, however, the physical effect on one's body's rhythms of multi time zone changes is staggering.
A quick look at the Zombies waiting for transport in Arrivals gives an inkling.
There is, as far as I am aware, no other carrier operating the same roster structure as EK and as such we are in uncharted territory with regards the long term effects of this type of rostered flying.
To those who are tempted, just like every other decision made in aviation, get the facts and make an objective call.
Safe flying guys and gals, sometimes there are things more important than money,

CamelRustler

18th Oct 2016, 10:18

Sealer,
It is not that simple. People can't "just leave". It takes about 2 years to financially break even, after moving your family out here. Then another two years to save enough to move back. Forget about the 5 year training bond. As an FO with kids you will not pocket any $ in the first 4 years in Dubai. So when people get here and realize they don't like they are stuck for the next 4-5 years. Yes there are those that like it. There are those that hate it. But if you hate it, there is very little you can do about it for quite some time. Also remember things ARE GETTING WORSE not better. Your comments are incredibly naive, and I suspect justifiably so.

Talparc

18th Oct 2016, 10:32

Great Job offer

https://kal-ccl.com/

electricdeathjet

18th Oct 2016, 11:09

Sealer.....

Hey if the job and rewards look so attractive why don't you apply?

You'll love it.....

Don't worry about being demoted, trying to get a command, or sharing your problems with management.
It's not as bad as the people on here say.

Hell you'll probably be on the new and improved higher pay contract..... win win

four engine jock

18th Oct 2016, 11:42

I don't post much but my word do you pilots complain.
If your not happy then just leave!!!

CaptainChipotle

18th Oct 2016, 11:48

I'm growing tired of these posts..... it makes me wonder what percentage of the pilot group at EK shares the same feelings. You would know better than me, I suppose. But here is how I see it. I fly a narrow body. I make about half of what an EK FO makes and I pay tax in two countries on that money. No pension. No free housing or utilities allowance. Command prospect? Nope. Transfer to a better base? Nope. Can the wife work here? Yep, but pay is disgusting.

So yeah, EK looks good from here. 100k USD tax free plus flight pay, pension, accommodation, jobs available for the wife in her industry and tax free too. Good for young guys with no family, smash out the flying, save some $$ and give up the career when you have had enough and do something else for a living. It isn't for everyone obviously, but if you hate it so much then consider giving your FO slot to someone else who might appreciate it a bit more!

You make it very clear that you've got a lot to learn.

notapilot15

18th Oct 2016, 12:07

Looks like sealer is out for a walk on astroturf.

Croc Dundee

18th Oct 2016, 12:13

It all went pear shaped for the pilot group when a certain gentleman by the name of LL left the building. The most helpful FM at EK, ever! This was just prior to 2008. They are still trying to find his replacement.

JAYTO

18th Oct 2016, 12:36

Hey Sealer

Really sorry your P2F job is not what you thought it would be. On the bright side, You still look cool in your Aviators.

highlight

18th Oct 2016, 12:53

I don't post much but my word do you pilots complain.
If your not happy then just leave!!!

Another Kool-Air drinker chimes in. By the way, it's you're not your for fcuk's sake! :ugh:

four engine jock

18th Oct 2016, 13:34

Another Kool-Air drinker chimes in. By the way, it's you're not your for fcuk's sake! :ugh:
YOU JUST PROVED MY POINT!!!!
That's all you guys do here is complain!
if you don't like it at EK leave!!!

sluggums

18th Oct 2016, 13:45

four engine jock, are you a ME expat pilot, if so, you should know better. If not, put a cork in it...

four engine jock

18th Oct 2016, 13:50

777boyindubai

18th Oct 2016, 13:56

Jock. Try reading the explanations. It might help....

Officer Kite

18th Oct 2016, 14:00

Hello gentlemen.

I feel very intimidated posting here but here goes ...

Basically I think I'm the guy you all hate, young 20 year old who dreams of flying for EK and doing everything possible at the lower ends of this industry to climb up and make that become a reality. Now I've read all the various threads and know exactly how the majority here feel about EK, and not only EK but the people who are joining with the background I currently have (young, free, willing to do anything to fly LH in the middle east, I would take any chance there be it QR or EY, but EK attracts me the most somehow and hoping my current route and building experience here takes me there.)

Anyway to cut a long story short. I'm on instagram, facebook etc and "follow" many emirates pilots. And they all seem to be having an absolute ball if I'm honest. I messaged one prominent Dutch person and queried him as to the negative claims and he brushed them off totally and said life there is what he imagined and more. My newsfeed is often awash with images of happy faces in all parts of the world, be it boarding speedboats to the hotel in Male or sitting at Boston Common taking the world in.

Bottom line is none of these people remotely reflect the idea of life I get of the place from these forums. And it is difficult to know what to believe. Would anyone here at least vouch for the happy lifestyle that is showed off by many of your colleagues on social media or is it total BS ? It really is confusing, I have a friend who himself is in a position to apply at the moment but he's put it on hold cos he, like me, can't figure what the hell is going on with the contradictions.

Thank you all,

glofish

18th Oct 2016, 14:09

Officer Kite

Unfortunately instagram and facebook users do not really represent the real airline world. It's like the bold and beautiful: Real people, but made up stories.

On the other hand you are definitely the future. Willing to do anything to fill the pockets of people who would themselves never do that much.
Not even touching the subject of competence .....

So all the best to you. Keep the blue side up.

natops

18th Oct 2016, 14:13

@officer kite

😜😳😫👀😎😂😂😂😂😂

Hope you join and find out yourself mate. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

AR as the initials for yr last name by any chance?

777boyindubai

18th Oct 2016, 14:16

Is it me or is the forum filling up with Trolls?

Officer Kite

18th Oct 2016, 14:20

Is it me or is the forum filling up with Trolls?

I assure you I'm not a troll, and I don't even know how what I posted could be considered as troll material, it was a simple query asked in a polite manner I feel. I do hope some people here are a lot nicer in real life :bored: I'm just really interested in the reality of life in the context of what I'm witnessing from two separate sources on a daily basis.

glofish thank you for your post. And I can assure you I won't be selling my soul to no one, the only issue today is if I don't pay 40k for an a320 TR with ezy, someone behind me will be waving the cash and jump at the chance. It is hard to keep principles at this level I'm at but I do do my best.

777boyindubai

18th Oct 2016, 14:34

Who called you a troll? 😎

FlightDetent

18th Oct 2016, 15:02

I'm just really interested in the reality of life in the context of what I'm witnessing from two separate sources on a daily basis. Internet is not reality, bro.

speedbirdhopeful1

18th Oct 2016, 15:59

felixthecat

18th Oct 2016, 16:06

Mr Kite.

Yes there are many smiling happy pictures from people all over the world and I am sure I'm amongst them. There are many negative quotes on here, the truth lays in the middle, but whilst it used to be more towards the smiling faces it is now more towards the negative.

I will try and enjoy the down time down route I have, but often I am exhausted and don't get the chance. There are few pictures of me asleep on the sofa at 3pm at home after an all night red eye to India and back, or a 17:30 Auckland night flight, to be shortly followed by that Indian night turn....

The rostering is totally exhausting.

Things have most definitely changed. I would guess that by the time you are in a position to apply they will have changed further.

Would I apply to join the company I joined some 10 years ago? Definitely Yes
Would I apply to join the company I joined 10 years ago again today ? Definitely No

BigGeordie

18th Oct 2016, 17:10

I don't do much twitface or flickgram because I'm too busy having a life and, well, wasting time on here. However, to me it seems all about the impression you want to give. I do sometimes think it would be fun to set up two separate accounts- one to show all the positive stuff about Dubai and Emirates and one to show all the negative. I'm sure I could make people back in the real world green with envy and have them feeling sorry for me at the same time. As ever, the truth would be somewhere in the middle- and the negative stuff would probably get me fired, which is why I won't be doing it.

When people make major decisions about things like moving their family halfway around the world for a new job and a completely new life they really, really want to think they have made the right decision and they want everybody else to think that as well. Hence there is a great reluctance to post anything negative on social media. I don't think I have ever seen a post on Facebook by someone admitting that their new job/car/house/wife is actually a huge mistake and they wish they had never done it/bought it/married it. Call it human nature, call it confirmation bias if you want to sound clever but either way remember- the internet is not real life.

Flyingishere

18th Oct 2016, 19:43

Flyingishere

18th Oct 2016, 19:45

Everyone in EK knows that the people who comment often on PPRUNE are the worst of the worst. Horrible people who won't be happy even if they won the lottery. Take my advice and do the same as I did. Enjoy the posts, eat popcorn during and ignore everything. EK isn't that bad honestly, people like above make it horrible.

Oh attack me btw, popcorn is ready ❤

sluggums

18th Oct 2016, 20:06

What time does Costas close at HQ...? I'll have whatever he/she is drinking.

Flyingishere

18th Oct 2016, 20:22

What time does Costas close at HQ...? I'll have whatever he/she is drinking.

Happy juice, not the disgusting ****ty drink you've been drinking which was full of salt ❤❤

uba737

18th Oct 2016, 20:39

Flyingshere, I think you are out of bounds calling anyones wife hateful, I don't care how much you disagree with any poster here! Someone else's family should be kept out of any discussion.

Plane and simple

18th Oct 2016, 21:30

glofish

18th Oct 2016, 22:18

Mind recommending another carrier to apply for then? Still haven't received a suggestion.

Stay away from the industry! As simple as that. Here's why:

- To get a rating + job on a SH jet you have to fork out ~100'000$.
- The first 5 years you work for peanuts (or less), you just survive.
- The next 5 years you try to change job to get a ultra fast upgrade to start making a decent life.
- During these 10 years you can survive, but you're stuck on your initial investment, not possible to repay the debts.
- The next 5 years you can either start putting money aside for the education of your kids, or have no family, or start paying back your debts.
- The next five years you make decent money, but you will start feeling the pinch of inhumane rostering, and you're only 45!
- Reaching 50, and if lucky enough not having your wife run away with half of the meager savings and the kids to get a life, you might have almost repaid your debt, but ruined your health and family and you can finally start building up your retirement fund.
- With 55 you are too shattered to sustain the former wet dream of LH/WB. Part time will not be allowed in your company (they prefer the young, eager, naive newbees who just paid their conversion course). You will be slowly bullied out.
- With 60 you finally decided to set a miserable end to your plight. You don't have enough for a decent retirement, but that does not matter, you'll die within the next 2 years anyway.

InnocentBystander

18th Oct 2016, 23:38

The company forbids the posting of anything negative on social media with the threat of disciplinary action up to and including termination. You might wonder why?

And of course we share some nice moments of happiness on social media at some point, who wouldn't? But we surely pay for it in many other ways...

felixthecat

19th Oct 2016, 02:26

He has only been here 6 months give him time ;)

lostinspace89

19th Oct 2016, 03:12

So if 99% of airlines seem to have same mis management issues, fatigue problems, lifestyle problems, no money...I guess all here agree to stay away from flying as a career?

Not looking to get attacked but more of an outsider view, from someone thats been a cabin crew before and looking to move up soon. Of course this forum will attract those that are not happy, people that are happy don't go on forums to say they are, especially not on the EK forum I guess as you easily get told you're a troll or management. I've looked at BA, Cathay, EVA, HKA, KAL airline forums and seems like everyone is against joining their airline (including BA, which was surprising). So maybe its not just EK but the whole airline industry. And I'm sorry to say but what seems most absurd is how pilots here attack each other when another pilot doesn't agree with them. I know unions are illegal there but at least standby one another in times of difficulty.

Someone once said on these forums, that pilots are their own worst enemies, and I guess it's true. As I said, I'm just an outsider, ex cc, thinking of the jump as I miss being onboard but then again if it brings so much pain to so many pilots I can't understand why someone would go through with becoming a pilot, so maybe I can also be called crazy for considering it. I can understand that it's hard to leave EK with bond repayments, loans etc and throwing away the hard work you've put into it already, even at the detriment of your health.

We all suffer from Concorde Fallacy...

keepitrealok

19th Oct 2016, 03:56

Sealer,

Apply to EK. Resign from your current union protected job in a beautiful country and come running to the mighty wide-body airline and, on paper, large pay check.

Message me in my 3-5 years when you realise the biggest mistake of your life was not listening to those here, who tried to tell you that the job has taken a substantial nose dive from the one it used to be, and resembles nothing of what your perceptions were. In fact, you find that what the posters here were saying was incredibly accurate. The grass isn't greener. It's sand.

When you do I won't say 'I told you so.' I'm just going to say 'I'm sorry that I wasn't able to communicate and connect better with you, and thus save you from the place.'

Good luck.

electricdeathjet

19th Oct 2016, 05:19

I say good for him, he looks like a happy, positive and friendly guy who is definitely enjoying life.....

SilverSeated

19th Oct 2016, 06:01

Certainly likes a good selfie...

Selfie in the car
Selfie in the jet
Selfie on the steps
Selfie walking
Selfie plotting
Selfie on a boat
Selfie getting dressed
Selfie listening to his tunes

All hail the Selfie king...

Kempus

19th Oct 2016, 07:12

Don't know the guy but it's amazing how that turned personal with some of the comments on a forum which is largely anonymous.

Anyway, this place is pants and I stuck my head above the trench line and wrote to both HD (not the motorcycle brand) and AAR.

Surprisingly no reply but least I'm doing something rather than mocking someone trying to make the most of a bad situation and we wonder why, we don't support each other when times are sh*t.

thos1n

19th Oct 2016, 07:32

Remember boys and girls,the full quote,relevant here,is:THE OTHER MANS GRASS IS ALWAYS GREENER......BUT ITS JUST AS HARD TO CUT!

CamelRustler

19th Oct 2016, 07:57

Spot on. The unity here is nonexistent. However, I have had to intervene on flights on more than one occasion because cabin crew wanted to throw each other under the bus for no other reason than to just do so. We do have excellent cabin crew for the most part and our Pursers are outstanding.

What you are seeing on the EK forums is frustration and complete lack of logic and respect by the company when dealing with its pilots. With a particular group routinely and perpetually getting shafted while the rest look away. We all have suffered differing degrees here, and some, not at all. So the angry don't understand the complacent and vice versa. I would put myself in the very angry column and therefore can in no way endorse anyone coming here. At best someone who has experienced few problems here could say they were lucky, and fortunate not to be affected. But they too should also be hesitant when seeing how some of their fellow pilots are treated. They should be thinking, "Who's next?" and at the very minimum, "Whats Next?" Changes are coming so fast and furious here now and it is so unstable, it is not the time to consider EK. Go to the Goat if you want to come out this way.

Sealer-Come on over EK would love to have you. I would very strongly advise against leaving an A320 job at a Major to come here. Best of luck either way.

fliion

19th Oct 2016, 08:55

On a lighter note, if he was to hook up with our YouTube fashionista - who needs 'Keeping up with Kimye'?!

notapilot15

19th Oct 2016, 09:40

I hear the same complaints every day on line that you are mentioning here.

That is a typical PR spin. If you go by number of official complaints by unionized employees to CAA about their employer, I am sure US and EU legacies will top the chart. I am sure Air India tops the complaints chart in the region.

Now shall we get into union dog jokes.

Don't use that excuse to discount complaints here as mere whining by few disgruntled chaps. EK working conditions supposed to above all (including QR,EY).

AlanPardew

19th Oct 2016, 09:56

Personally I like Flying Douchie, especially the photo of his big face grinning at the steps of a 777 whilst discussing the EK521.

Look, we try to fight our corner with management and the general public, at times appearing desperate in our bid to be considered as professionals. Then people like this cent post uniform and flight deck selfies every other day.

How can we expect to be taken seriously when we ask for a pay increase while on Instagram there's photos of this muppet in full uniform pretending he doesn't know he's being snapped while he sips a costa.

Alan

BigGeordie

19th Oct 2016, 10:53

Why not post a link to somebody's Instagram account? It is out there in the open for anybody to find and the guy has 18,000 followers (but, apparently, no friends) so he obviously loves the PR. The company won't mind until one day he posts something they take exception to (which he will, he appears to have already broken some of the "rules") and then the sky will fall in on him. If he hasn't figured that out yet he should have his smartphone taken away for his own protection.

And, yes, he is clearly a muppet of the highest order.

altocu

19th Oct 2016, 11:21

What BigGeordie said.

pilot hans

19th Oct 2016, 11:21

This sector is full of people loving themselves so much for being a pilot. My friends and family like some nice views from above but I don't think they care about the coffee I drink or the hotel I sleep in...

glofish

19th Oct 2016, 12:10

kibz2005

19th Oct 2016, 15:06

Slug!! Why must I do that?? And no I'm not an Expat pilot.
Tell me I'm wrong?? All I read here is all you pilots complaining.
Wake up and smell the rose’s ,,,,things are not going to change unless you all just leave.
I think this is by far the best message I've seen on this forum. It's now painfully obvious where and who you work for :-D

sluggums

19th Oct 2016, 17:40

No, really!

Was it the thread title that gave it away, or the fact that I replied to someone who felt that he had a good insight of the topic being discussed, yet knows nothing about the challenges of moving to an expat airline and all that it entails...

I'm sure I saw you in Costas today?

lospilotos

19th Oct 2016, 19:34

It is hilarious ....

We laugh at those cc who come up with "my Mohammed is different" and then are crushed by the cynical local mentality a few months later.

But there are just as many future FBW artists who are absolutely sure that "their dream EK" is different as well and know absolutely for sure that those lazy actual pilots writing up these ugly stories are completely wrong.

We told you so, both of you!

I don't mind being attended by a naive cc, but i do mind being flown by such bright faced social media heroes.

Major thread drift and a new low here. Picking on a new colleague just because he happens to enjoy his job and also mocking him just because he is active on social media.

Well he's definitely not alone in that respect and I can't see how that could make anyone a lesser capable pilot. Or is it only pilots with old brick Nokias that can fly a plane to your high standards?

More than 18.000 people find his pictures interesting and I can't really see he's broken any "rules". Or are you one of those pilots that does not allow a picture in the flight deck for security reasons...

Anyway, I happen to know J in person and he's a super guy, with lots of friends and having more luck with the ladies than you bitter bunch here probably have got.

SilverSeated

19th Oct 2016, 23:09

Major thread drift and a new low here. Picking on a new colleague just because he happens to enjoy his job and also mocking him just because he is active on social media.

Well he's definitely not alone in that respect and I can't see how that could make anyone a lesser capable pilot. Or is it only pilots with old brick Nokias that can fly a plane to your high standards?

More than 18.000 people find his pictures interesting and I can't really see he's broken any "rules". Or are you one of those pilots that does not allow a picture in the flight deck for security reasons...

Anyway, I happen to know J in person and he's a super guy, with lots of friends and having more luck with the ladies than you bitter bunch here probably have got.

Good for you LosPilotos, and really happy your friend is getting all the girls. He sure warrants it based on all the effort he's putting in. This is not a personal attack on the fact he enjoys his job, the level of professionalism is what has hit a new low here...is this really what we have become!

Maybe we should all be taking more pics and posting on social media, hey don't stop here lets get all our non aviation friends to do the same....doctors, lawyers, accountants it'll be fun :ok::ugh:

monsoon.pilot

19th Oct 2016, 23:16

I can't really see he's broken any "rules"

OMA 8.3.19.1

lospilotos

19th Oct 2016, 23:44

OMA 8.3.19.1

Thank you! 8.3 details policies by phase of flight. Being parked at the gate, engines shut down cannot possibly be considered as a phase of flight.

lospilotos

19th Oct 2016, 23:49

Good for you LosPilotos, and really happy your friend is getting all the girls. He sure warrants it based on all the effort he's putting in. This is not a personal attack on the fact he enjoys his job, the level of professionalism is what has hit a new low here...is this really what we have become!

Maybe we should all be taking more pics and posting on social media, hey don't stop here lets get all our non aviation friends to do the same....doctors, lawyers, accountants it'll be fun :ok::ugh:

Please define professionalism in the context of how an active social media presence reduces professionalism.

nolimitholdem

20th Oct 2016, 02:10

A somewhat wide topic, so hard to debate. People will always argue about the definition of "professionalism", and it's beyond the scope of this thread. But I will say, that social media - rightly or wrongly - is more often associated with things like Kardashian and Trump tweets and self-absorbed millennials posting selfies than anything of substance. Surely that's not an inaccurate statement?

It's one thing to defend one's right to plaster cheesy pics of themselves all over their Instagram account - fine. But are you really trying to suggest that it conveys a professional image? Um, ok. Agree to disagree. I have a feeling of regardless of how you want to nit-pick the OM-A, EK won't be thrilled to have their "brand" splashed around quite so much outside of their official permission. Even "positive" spins on EK are now avenues for ridicule, as you can clearly see.

BigGeordie already summed it up beautifully. Reminds me of the old Christmas letters people used to send, trying desperately to convince their friends and family how wonderful their lives are. Social media is just another form of that. Seems to me if you have to work so hard to show people how awesome your life is, it probably isn't. And if you spend so much time trying to record and broadcast your life, you aren't living it, and are thus actually a total loser. But that's just my opinion. Selfie yourself to death, have at 'er.

I don't do much twitface or flickgram because I'm too busy having a life and, well, wasting time on here. However, to me it seems all about the impression you want to give. I do sometimes think it would be fun to set up two separate accounts- one to show all the positive stuff about Dubai and Emirates and one to show all the negative. I'm sure I could make people back in the real world green with envy and have them feeling sorry for me at the same time. As ever, the truth would be somewhere in the middle- and the negative stuff would probably get me fired, which is why I won't be doing it.

When people make major decisions about things like moving their family halfway around the world for a new job and a completely new life they really, really want to think they have made the right decision and they want everybody else to think that as well. Hence there is a great reluctance to post anything negative on social media. I don't think I have ever seen a post on Facebook by someone admitting that their new job/car/house/wife is actually a huge mistake and they wish they had never done it/bought it/married it. Call it human nature, call it confirmation bias if you want to sound clever but either way remember- the internet is not real life.

lospilotos

20th Oct 2016, 03:17

AlanPardew

20th Oct 2016, 03:48

BTW, here is the Instagram account of someone who's a better stick n rudder pilot anyone of us will ever be (just to show you can have a strong social media presence and still be professional): https://www.instagram.com/hannesarch/

The difference being he doesn't have photos of a commericial airline, uniform selfies or images of himself faux plotting a ULR flight at home.

As for being happy, that's great. If he is genuinely content then that's excellent. It's how he's making the rest of the world view us as professionals that I don't like.

I really don't see how anyone can defend the guy. If what he's doing isn't unprofessional then I don't know what is and he's embarrassing the rest of us.

Pards

Xulu

20th Oct 2016, 04:21

1. Oxy Mask On
2. Establish communication with Instagram.
3. Take picture of ecam.
4. Take picture of self.
5. If hair damaged.... filter with care.
6. Initiate upload.
7. Followers....notify.

Limitations: Night time. L'Oreal. Girlfriend. Brain.

lostinspace89

20th Oct 2016, 05:06

Still can't understand how he's affecting your so called professionalism. I think this forum and attacks on colleagues does that well enough. Other professionals don't attack those of the same profession let alone same company. And if you think he is the only commercial pilot on social media you should check again: There are BA, Qatar, Easyjet, Virgin, Etihad, and lots of other EK pilots on Instagram (ps. some of them are even in their 50's and not millenials!) and unless they are stuffed in a hat rack or hiding in the galley stowage I can't see much harm done to the profession, rather most of them are educating aspiring pilots on aircraft procedures. If they take a selfie then thats up to them, can't see why there's so much hate for a photo of oneself honestly guys. What a thread drift...

AlanPardew

20th Oct 2016, 05:18

If you saw photos on social media of a lawyer in court or a doctor taking selfies in the operating room, would you think they are professional or would it taint the way you looked upon that profession?

what_goes_up

20th Oct 2016, 05:54

BTW, here is the Instagram account of someone who's a better stick n rudder pilot anyone of us will ever be (just to show you can have a strong social media presence and still be professional): https://www.instagram.com/hannesarch/
Just assisting with the threat drift...
Nice pictures but not a good example Hannes Arch died in a helicopter accident just over a month ago...

four engine jock

20th Oct 2016, 06:28

I think this is by far the best message I've seen on this forum. It's now painfully obvious where and who you work for :-D
You have no ideal who I work for!

lostinspace89

20th Oct 2016, 07:08

And you think there aren't doctors taking selfies in the operating room? Maybe he's not taking shots during the actual operation but there are famous doctors that talk about operating procedures and take a selfie in the OR. Plus there are actually reality shows filming during actual procedures so I can imagine what you would think of that.

The selfie in the flight deck is not taken during critical phases, yet on ground. There are other airline pilots taking videos during take off and landing...I think that would be considered worse than a selfie planning a route. :/

As for lawyers...one cannot take photos in court as its illegal, though trust me I'm sure if they could out of all professions a lawyer would be the first to snap himself in action. Don't you think?

At the end of the day I think some people need to look at other professions with a more open mind rather than think that theirs is the worst of all and the most disrespected. Like all professions there are those that are professional and those that are not. It's normal. But I think there's a fine line between professional and not....

I mean look at Donald Trump...he's running for the most important job in the world yet a little less than half the most advanced country in the world believe he is a professional. Hence, opinions will always vary.

Plane and simple

20th Oct 2016, 07:29

BigGeordie

20th Oct 2016, 08:14

On what planet is a selfie taken while wearing a full face oxygen mask either appropriate or professional?

I know and you know it wasn't taken during an actual emergency but this is all about public perception and the public will perceive a muppet whose first thought during an emergency is, "Cool! I'll have to get a selfie of this!"

anson harris

20th Oct 2016, 09:20

Can we get back to the thread topic: Is the 380 better than the 777?

AlanPardew

20th Oct 2016, 10:06

Show me the Instagram accounts of these doctors taking operating room selfies and I'll ensure I don't allow them to operate on myself or my family.

We simply cannot expect to be considered professionals when clowns like this are who the public see represent us.

In my opinion there is a difference between a commercially produced documentary with cameras in the flight deck - where we come across as and are perceived as professionals - and an attention seeking numpty posting selfies.

notapilot15

20th Oct 2016, 10:15

I thought this thread was astroturf recruitment essay writing contest for costa dwellers. Not many winners.

About professionalism, it is up to an individual to make private information public for any reason, some do for kicks, some do for money, some do to impress boss. Once it is in public domain you get all sorts of commentary, one cannot use professionalism card on colleagues. Keep in mind they could have posted their pictures, but they didn't.

Craggenmore

20th Oct 2016, 14:19

https://www.360nobs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/360nobs-moldova-doctor1-1.jpg

bigdaviet

20th Oct 2016, 16:35

Seems like a nice enthusiastic guy and I say good for him for making the most of his situation.

I have no wish to trawl through all his photos but if he's not taking them during flight I don't have a problem with it. While I would never suggest anyone post such pictures, I would also hazard a guess that EK will be quite happy to have such a positive spin on things on Instagram. IMO no different to 'the lawyer' taking a selfie outside his office before going into work.

Very sad to see this person getting criticised so personally in this thread.

Spikedog

20th Oct 2016, 19:01

CAUTION: All guys below the age of 30,read the posts above. You will have to sit next to the old farts like that for atleast 7-8 years, who think they are "professional" because they don't click pictures in the flight deck.

PS: BTW wth is a Christmas card ? Are u frm frickin ice age or Wht ?

No, Musing Spunk Monk, it's just that we've seen what Emirates do to people who take pictures in the flight deck or in the cabin with celebrities, or infront of an engine, etc. without official "permission". Wish it wasn't true, but you or this FO will find out soon, so hey carry on ... and good luck with it.

MusingMonk

20th Oct 2016, 19:06

Proves our point really.

EK is now only suited to selfie loving twenty-somethings who have come to fly fancy jets, do the girls (or boys) and drive fast cars. All part of the pretend online lifestyle.
No wonder they are prepared to take all this cr@p.

Here for a good time. Not for a long time.

I weep for the future!

Proves "OUR" point ? Dude stop generalizing.. All guys on this forum are not same age as you.. And neither are all sympathetic with your posts.. It's because of people like you this is even more sad place.. Apart from dealing with fatigue, family etc etc we also have to come to work and find people like you next to us.. If you really think you made it so far because you knew it all .. God help you..

It's probably because of the same first officer in his 20s who saved your ass many times, maybe you don't even realize that. Maybe you are perfect.

Stop fckin judging your colleagues for fck sake.

fatbus

20th Oct 2016, 19:12

EK no longer get the best candidates , been that way for a long time. Get over yourself!

Spikedog

20th Oct 2016, 19:15

Proves "OUR" point ? Dude stop generalizing.. All guys on this forum are not same age as you.. And neither are all sympathetic with your posts.. It's because of people like you this is even more sad place.. Apart from dealing with fatigue, family etc etc we also have to come to work and find people like you next to us.. If you really think you made it so far because you knew it all .. God help you..

It's probably because of the same first officer in his 20s who saved your ass many times, maybe you don't even realize that. Maybe you are perfect.

Stop fckin judging your colleagues for fck sake.

Calm down DUDE & Keep saving old asses

MusingMonk

20th Oct 2016, 19:17

No, Musing Spunk Monk, it's just that we've seen what Emirates do to people who take pictures in the flight deck or in the cabin with celebrities, or infront of an engine, etc. without official "permission". Wish it wasn't true, but you or this FO will find out soon, so hey carry on ... and good luck with it.

I don't even hv a fb, Instagram or Twitter account ... bt I would never post such personal remarks about even the biggest assh@le I fly with... never

His Instagram, his photos .. Who are u to judge what he should do or nt ? If company has a problem with it .. That's his problem too.. Nt for sm1 to post it here and talk about professionalism..

Was that professional to post that link here ?

Spikedog

20th Oct 2016, 19:23

I don't even hv a fb, Instagram or Twitter account ... bt I would never post such personal remarks about even the biggest assh@le I fly with... never

His Instagram, his photos .. Who are u to judge what he should do or nt ? If company has a problem with it .. That's his problem too.. Nt for sm1 to post it here and talk about professionalism..

Was that professional to post that link here ?

I am not judging.

I did not post a link.

Someone at Emirates will judge.

Someone will get a warning.

Goodnight.

lospilotos

20th Oct 2016, 19:34

No, Musing Spunk Monk, it's just that we've seen what Emirates do to people who take pictures in the flight deck or in the cabin with celebrities, or infront of an engine, etc. without official "permission". Wish it wasn't true, but you or this FO will find out soon, so hey carry on ... and good luck with it.
From the company guidance on social media:

"Be brand proud. Everybody loves to photograph our people in uniform. These photos may appear online. You may post selfies in uniform or photos of our products and branding, but when you do so, ensure you meet uniform standards and brand guidelines. "

I´d say the company encourages these pictures, as long as they are done sensibly. E.g. not running around taking pictures outside while the passengers are on board and you´re having a delay due tech, as it happened in Colombo I believe it was. (This is the reason for the urban myth that you get fired if you take a picture in front of the airplane)

glider_777

20th Oct 2016, 19:58

normally I am just a curious browser of Pprune..

but some of the posts above would infuriate any young first officer.. I am not in my 20's ..nt even close really.. so I really have to say this.. you guys really need to calm down.. nd I don't mean to imply the young chaps.. I m talking to my fellow oldies here..

really leave the guy alone with his pics.. don't be so orthodox.. even if I was a FO.. I really wouldn't wanna sit next to guy like some of the posters above..

maybe you are just frustrated .. but you need to look at the bigger picture .. We fly day and night with these guys.. some of them are really hard working young guys .. maybe just like some of you .. when you were in your 20s .. any honest hard working person would feel insulted if you start generalizing them by age group and judge their capabilities by age..

personally I find a lot these young FO's much more sharper than I am... some of them just need to mature a bit.. but hey.. thats surely gonna come with time.. I am sure you guys did some crazy stuff when you were young and now brag about all that after a few beers and have some fine stories to tell.. I certainly have some..

The way I see it.. as long as I am here to read your replies in a day.. I did a fine job in my flight..

fly safe and respect your colleagues..

BigGeordie

20th Oct 2016, 20:36

It is however illegal to take photographs on the ramp in Dubai- and that is not just an Emirates thing, it is something the police have taken an interest in before. It is also not something which is encouraged at a number of the airports we fly to. Do it and you will eventually end up having a chat with the local cops. If you insist on taking selfies at least know the rules and be careful out there.

Bus Driver Man

20th Oct 2016, 22:26

Unbelievable... Reading some of these replies makes me ashamed of having such colleagues.

I've flown with "old farts" who were great Captains and leaders, who had good people skills and were very nice to fly with. I've also flown with "old farts" who were exactly what a Captain shouldn't be and they were a good example of what sort of Captain I don't want to be. (I think some of them are active on PPRuNe.)

I've flown with FOs in their 20s who were hard working, humble, eager to learn and motivated for the job they did. I have also flown with FOs who were the opposite.

So please stop the generalisation of age groups.
Some people forget that they once were young and inexperienced themselves and that they probably had to put up with older Captains who didn't think too much of them either. No matter how good their intentions were.

Do you expect someone who only had experience flying short haul, to know everything there is to know about flying long haul all over the world? Everyone keeps learning, even the "old farts", but not everyone will admit it.
I like learning from experienced captains (the good type of Captains), just like I enjoy passing on some of my experience to other FOs (the good type of FOs). Isn't that what colleagues should do, instead of arguing on an anonymous forum?

The Outlaw

21st Oct 2016, 02:06

Monk(ey) Boy,

Just go back to playing on the PS and quit making yourself look like a clown with the post pubescent wise cracks.

If you want to come...then come...hey, its a great place to learn the lessons you so desperately need!

I hope we can fly together someday so I can really demonstrate with fervour...what "old farts" are really like...I'm not shy!

PS...in the meantime, try to grow up and write like a 22 year old.

glider_777

21st Oct 2016, 02:06

Guys really ?

Really are we gonna do this here ?

Now are we even gonna bad mouth each other on an online forum which, by the way a lot of you already know is quite often visited by costa dwellers.

Please don’t tell me that you are not happy with the FO’s you fly with either. It won’t make any sense. Please don’t tell me that when you got your airline job you all were just next to perfection.

I personally don’t agree with some of the language used by MusingMonk, but guys Costa dwellers already think we are nothing but a bunch of moaners who are frustrated with life.

Now, if we come here and start saying stuff like this about our own colleagues .. we are just proving their point here.

I really don’t think you guys are understanding what you doing here.

Please save all the prejudice you have about the first officers, candidates etc to your own private get togethers.

Have the maturity to control yourself on a public forum. If you can’t do that then you are no better than any of the young guys.

Personally, I agree with a lot of stuff things being said about you guys above. I just don’t agree with the language, but don’t get me wrong .. by no means I am on your side either.

I can still remember those days when I had to put up with guys like you for long trips, where you fly with the same guy for almost half a month.

Now I understand why some of the FO’s are so fed up.

MusingMonk

21st Oct 2016, 02:16

I hope we can fly together someday so I can really demonstrate with fervour...what "old farts" are really like...I'm not shy!

I m ready to learn.. any one else wanna fly with this guy ??

777boyindubai

21st Oct 2016, 06:05

This thread is a dream for EK Management. It appears we are attacking each other on the strength of Instagram accounts. There were some great guys joining EK but without doubt the flying experience of some of the new joiners is questionable in relation to those that joined a few years back. A few management trolls ready to sacrifice safety for a few shekels undoubtedly have come on here to add to the mix. To the newbies I say look at the type of flying in terms of destinations coupled with fatiguing rosters. Up until recently, the safety record was superb.... the exodus of experienced guys and TRE will make the 571 "incident" a more likely occurance. However there are some great newbies with the right attitude. EK is one of the worst places to join now. To the potential new joiners may I ask who is more credible, people who have been in this airline, who see it daily, who have been lied to and cheated, who don't have a legally binding contract, who are fatigued and who are leaving in unprecedented numbers, at financial loss and worse still moving kids from school and friends as their situation is no longer tenable. OR people who just drink the KoolAid without giving careful thought to why the hours requirement keeps dropping and so many guys fail at joining time? Why has the bond gone up again and again if people are so happy here? Do they ask why so many people across departments are leaving. The effect of regional $50 oil for the medium term. The cost of living. Inflation.... My 17 year old tells me the Jordanian FO is gorgeous and should be a model. He will earn more than you as a pilot, dad!! Hat and coat and best wishes to all.

fatbus

21st Oct 2016, 06:14

The huge increase in unsuccessful new hires is alarming. Buyer beware. It's not the fault of the training it's the lack of skills to begin with.

Phantom Driver

21st Oct 2016, 17:22

alwayzinit ( from way back in post # 49-yes, some sad or bored people do start reading from the beginning)

A quick look at the Zombies waiting for transport in Arrivals gives an inkling.
There is, as far as I am aware, no other carrier operating the same roster structure as EK and as such we are in uncharted territory with regards the long term effects of this type of rostered flying.
To those who are tempted, just like every other decision made in aviation, get the facts and make an objective call.
Safe flying guys and gals, sometimes there are things more important than money, This pretty well sums things up. ME carriers are in a unique historical position with regard to route structure , and the roster will naturally reflect this ; Far West one day , Far East the next . It is the frequent time zone changes on the health system that will prove to be a ticking time bomb .

6 hours kip in the bunk may sound fine , but not for all . In this regard , the "young" chaps seem to fare pretty well ; they are ready to hit downtown Sao Paulo at midnight local time , whereas all the old duffer Captain can manage is a few beers and then bed . Solo .:)

There has been a lot of back and forth on the forum over airline issues . We all know the grass is never greener on the other side . However , my experience is that things are usually not quite as bad as they seem , and invariably things do improve . The PEOPLE of an airline (Aircrew and ground crew) are an airlines greatest assets. Without them, an airline is nothing.

Even the most unenlightened management eventually comes to realize this ; unless the awareness comes too late . As I recall , when Pan Am folded , there were more "managers" in head office than there were line Captains.

For the young guys embarking on your aviation career, follow your dream . Won't be easy , but hey , as they say , "life has got to have a few drawbacks" !

nolimitholdem

22nd Oct 2016, 04:59

"Captain Anas" is no 50 year old. Textbook millennial. Rockin' the mighty 320.

I'm sorry but the link you gave completely undermines the position that social media can be professional. It makes the strongest case possible to the contrary.

That level of narcissism is a personality disorder.

I mean come on. How can anyone expect the profession to be taken seriously after five minutes at that link? What an embarrassment. The type of guy who back in the day would wear his RayBans and carry his David Clarks to the mall in the hopes someone would ask him "are you a pilot?". Taken to a whole different level.

I suppose it could become the next internet "thing". Seeking out THE worst, cheesiest, gag-inducing pilot self-loving selfie sites and rating them on their dubious criteria. EK already has Duchie and Barbie ready to compete.

glider_777

23rd Oct 2016, 09:06

I hope we can fly together someday so I can really demonstrate with fervour...what "old farts" are really like...I'm not shy!

Wow..!! you just lost any respect left for you..

I should have stayed away from this conversation. I think I should go back to be a silent spectator. I really don't wish to have any association with you guys who think number of Pprune posts=more experience.

Good luck to all the young chaps out there. I am leaving soon anyways..so best of luck..

hunterboy

23rd Oct 2016, 17:58

Blimey, seeing all these selfies makes me realise I must go to the gym more....

electricdeathjet

23rd Oct 2016, 20:00

Hunter, its fine, they are all photoshopped

Divertnow

23rd Oct 2016, 22:13

Seaman Staynes,

Thanks. I have already done that, been recommended Air Japan/KAL/CAL/Lion Air upgrade/Fiji with my current experience. I don't have wide body time, and can't get it in my current outfit. The places I listed above are apparently all garbage. So you see why EK looks so attractive to people like us, even if only as a short term option. The opportunities out there are not good!! What the hell happened to aviation?
Air Japan is garbage? Ive heard they're awesome to work for as long as you don't mind a commuting gig. If they still took DECs I'd apply in a heartbeat.

The Dominican

23rd Oct 2016, 22:40

Air Japan has its share of issues like any other job out there but to describe it as "garbage" makes me think that you do need to research a little better....!

Fratemate

24th Oct 2016, 01:33

Air Japan has its share of issues like any other job out there but to describe it as "garbage" makes me think that you do need to research a little better....!

Yep, I've got to agree with that and I notice that we've had guys come from EK but nobody has ever left to go to EK. Having spoken to those ex-EK pilots I wouldn't even bother filling in the application form.

Before you ask; I come here to keep abreast of the latest news and rumours, just in case there is a massive change of terms, conditions and management MO :)

Emma Royds

12th Feb 2017, 08:10

Looks like QR.

I wonder how long he spends staring at the mirror getting ready in the morning? :E

Sheikh Your Bootie

12th Feb 2017, 09:49

EK has its own Selfie fraternity, for example the Dutchy or the geezer who loves doing his flight prep in full uniform :yuk::yuk:
To be honest for most of us, we barf at it, but its todays generation, right or wrong. Just as long as they don't selfie when the engines are turning :ugh:

Most companies see its as positive stuff despite what they tell us, its free and the young generation love it.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

Fiskus

12th Feb 2017, 10:39

I wonder how qr does tolerate it. Normally you get termination for this, taking pictures etc. But somehow qr seems to tolerate this with certain people.

sluggums

15th Feb 2017, 07:01

Last 9 months...! Last 9 years, more like. At least...

Officer Kite

15th Feb 2017, 14:05

Who mentioned something about not taking pics whilst "the engines are turning" or something to that effect?

Instagram is awash with images of pilots (some at EK) with pictures during a time of flight that I'm pretty sure the engines are turning.

HeartyMeatballs

15th Feb 2017, 15:27

The Dutchy was nauseating. I loved going on for a good laugh. Tragically he's made his profile private. He's doing you guys proud!

These gimps HAVE to be plants by the airline to make it look like a jolly nice place to work.

nolimitholdem

15th Feb 2017, 22:05

Well, some of their attempts at astroturfing are starting to show cracks.

For example their poster child female captain is resigning to go to the bottom of the seniority list at United. I guess she got tired of "seeing a new airport every day".

Bye-bye.

7T-ujzU6vSc

Pretty sure the Aussie guy from the same series of propaganda has left too.

All that glitters...

sluggums

16th Feb 2017, 07:41

Well, if true, isn't that ironic. I thought it was brilliant over here...

Valmont

16th Feb 2017, 08:18

Anas is from Air Arabia.

harry the cod

18th Feb 2017, 13:18

Nolimitholdem

I suppose you attribute her leaving is based entirely due to dissatisfaction with Emirates?

I doubt for one minute you might consider various other factors, one of which might well be her attitude to fellow 'colleagues', or to the point, their 'attitude' towards her.

Whatever your gripes and issues with this Company, the immaturity, lack of basic respect and overall aggressive tone shown towards her and others that have been chosen to support 'the brand', is disappointing. It's nothing more than internet bullying and all done under the convenient handle of anonymity. Please don't come back with the expected 'she left herself open when she agreed' line. She probably wasn't expecting such vitriolic comments from so called colleagues. I have had the pleasure of flying with Ashley only once before. I found her to be a more than capable pilot, professional in appearance and attitude, and with nothing to prove other than to enjoy life and make the best of what opportunity brings.

Jealousy takes many forms but the poison you and some others show to anything positive on these forums is more a reflection on your own bitter and unhappy lives rather than theirs. Constant negativity is a cancer and it spreads. I'm all for telling it as it is but the rubbish that pervades these forums is, at times, beyond belief. Perhaps you should take a leaf out of Ashley's career book and move onto something different if life here no longer offers what you want.

I for one will be wishing her well in her new career, wherever that may be!

Harry

The Outlaw

18th Feb 2017, 14:08

Wow Harry,

Being a little sensitive are we?

What was so " immature, lacking of basic respect and overall aggressive tone" about nolimitholdems post? It seems to me the only thing he posted was that she left for another airline.

It might be that she made such a great impression on you for that ONE time you flew together and that's great, but you (even you Harry) have to be smart enough to realize that anyone who puts their head above the trench in this operation runs the risk of getting a swift kick to it.

Personally, I don't have a lot of respect for "poster girls/boys" especially in this operation, it just seems like its a sellout for the wrong reasons combined with a lot of false pre tense and that is not fair to those on the outside looking in. I might partially share your sentiment if the actors showed an ounce of fairness and balanced the fallacy with the facts such as the 110 hour months, lack of decent leave, management mentality and about 20 other negatives. I'll assume it was just an oversight and they forgot to mention it.

harry the cod

18th Feb 2017, 15:36

For someone who was quick to inform us all of the sweat and toil you endured on C47's in your early days, it surprises me that you're less than empathetic to the bullying one of our colleagues has had to endure on these forums. She is merely taking what opportunity comes her way and no, she doesn't deserve a kicking for it. I didn't realise that professional pilots rolled that way but hey, you learn something new every day I guess.

Just because she appeared on promotional videos does not tie her into the Company for life.

Harry

The Outlaw

18th Feb 2017, 16:07

Harry,

Who was bullied? Did Nolimit bully her a few posts back?

And what does my career path have to do with anything in THIS thread?

I disagree with you with regard to your statement "Just because she appeared on promotional videos does not tie her into the Company for life." I'm afraid so ol' bean but I think it does. She signed off on any rights to the video and the company now owns that footage and her image. She is, or was not ignorant to that fact at the time and yes, it does tie her to this company for life.

Another point you have conveniently avoided was my position of a balanced factual video which to be fair should state the good with the bad. Seems you were too interested in making smart remarks about my days of yore!

As for professional pilots, they're just same as doctors and lawyers. Know a couple of each and if you think pilots talk crap...its the way it happens in all walks of life.

Anyway did she deserve all that crap you speak of? Who's to say. If the company was different then maybe not. But there are a lot of pissed off people in the ranks (and for many good reasons), she made her choice and with that she opens herself to the good, the bad and the ugly.

Emma Royds

19th Feb 2017, 00:19

I have never met AK but I wish her good luck if she is moving onto greener pastures. She has managed to use the company to her benefit rather than many who feel the reverse. As ex-pats we are all here for self gain! Now it looks like she is moving back to the first world to join a reputable legacy carrier. I wonder who is going to have the last laugh here? :cool:

GoreTex

19th Feb 2017, 05:20

at least she has balls to leave many of her colleagues don't have them and stay

Panther 88

19th Feb 2017, 05:29

But sadly, her video, along with others, was created to convince others that the lifestyle and company was all peaches and cream. Most promotional videos do that of course. But her video may have been the tipping point for people to upend their lives and their families lives. And that is the point some are attempting to make here, IMHO.

I, of course, don't blame her for moving to that greener pasture. Lucky her. But isn't it just a bit hypocritical to leave so soon after being the "face" of EK, being in Hollywood on the Ellen show, and expressing her view that EK afforded her a luxurious lifestyle? A stretch here, but didn't we just see the exit of a small little man, who for his entire career, including BA, only was in it for himself? Parallels can be made.

And how is this any different than what our old friend, Capt. America, did? I know of one bloke whose tipping decision was based on C.A's article in the WSJ. And no one defended him, even before Tartan Guy tried to. Another story. Must be the difference between grey hair and flowing blonde tresses.

Monarch Man

19th Feb 2017, 07:32

Contempt is probably too strong a word, but it is an emotion that is very similar to this when I hear and see the promotion of half truths and outright falsehoods with respect to life here.
The willing participants are merely reflective of the vile culture that exists in large portions both within and outside of EK and I find the whole idea of being a "star" in a recruitment video rather odd, but then there seems to be more than a few square pegs trying to fit into round holes hereabouts.
I genuinely believe that the place is as much to blame as is EK, it seems to create monsters of all persuasions, you know who I mean, that awful woman who wears to much makeup/bling who can't understand why little Jonny/Mohammed/Javed is always misbehaving at school and home...it doesn't matter how many IPads...ice creams...or mobiles phones he has...the maid just can't seem to control his tantrums while mummy is busy.
But if you don't like it leave.....it doesn't need changing, there's a new one born every minute.

nolimitholdem

19th Feb 2017, 11:02

harry,

I actually took pains to not disparage the person in the video. It was offered as evidence that even those who - either by choice, coercion, self-interest, whatever - allow themselves to be used as promotional tools of The Company, are leaving. THAT was the point, and I hoped some might draw their own conclusions from that fact.

You of course, went another direction and chose to jump on your high horse and ride gallantly to the rescue. Thanks for being utterly, completely predictable. Bullied? Come on. There are internet bullies and there are internet prima donnas. I find both equally distasteful.

Of course no one is tied to an employer forever (thank god!). But when someone who allows themselves to be featured in a breathy, obsequiously positive public portrayal of the lifestyle at EK, decides to vote with her feet so soon after, it says far more than her scripted words in a video.

No?

harry the cod

19th Feb 2017, 12:06

No. And that's just the point.

Since taking part in various videos and events, the online derogatory comments and disparaging remarks have, and still are, directed at her. Both yourself and Outlaw have even succumbed to that on this very thread!

We could go on debating the rights and wrongs of this all day but whatever your viewpoint, the only person who will ever really know why they're leaving is Ashley herself. I doubt it's just because of EK's current conditions and I doubt it's solely related to comments made on this website. It's probably a combination of reasons, as is the case generally. Whatever they are, it certainly does not make a mockery of her previous role as an ambassador for the brand. Does working for the promotional team require a lifelong contract? I think not. Anyway, I doubt for one minute whether her videos will be featuring in EK media for much longer. The PR and Commercial teams are undoubtedly one of the strongest departments in this outfit and are forever evolving and changing.

As for the comment from Outlaw that I only flew with her once, so what? How many times do you need to fly with a person before deciding how they operate, twice, three times? What do they say, 2 minutes or so for a first impression? Generally it works for me and she proved that.

All I will say, finally on this matter, is that regardless of our own angst and frustration against the Company, unless you have the balls to speak bluntly to her face, don't say it on a public forum. Is that not the advice we'd give our own children or is cyber bullying acceptable nowadays? Subtle or direct, it's all the same and just as vile. The internet has provided the World with a forum to say things we'd not ordinarily say to an individual in person. It's brought out the best and the worst of us but we can choose what we say and how we say it. Behaviour breeds behaviour. Why not make those same comments on our own dedicated forum? You know, the one where you'll be required to identify yourself by providing a staff number. Bullies? Yep, often outed as cowards mostly.

As Outlaw said, there's the good, the bad and the ugly in this World. Unfortunately, the last two traits are frequently exposed on these ME threads, most often behind the cloak of anonymity and, sadly, very much to the detriment of our profession.

Harry

Pilot Jet

19th Feb 2017, 15:45

Looks like QR.

I wonder how long he spends staring at the mirror getting ready in the morning? :E
He works for Air Arabia

Officer Kite

19th Feb 2017, 21:55

He works for Air Arabia

He used to work for Air Arabia. He now works for QR.

Nikita81

19th Feb 2017, 23:42

hunterboy

20th Feb 2017, 03:13

Who can blame someone for wanting to star in a promotional video? Let's face it, nearly all women have a bit of the Grace Kelly in them.
Where I'd feel a bit aggrieved (if I had any skin in the game) , might be the view that she is trying to con pilots into joining EK, so that she can jump into their freshly vacated position back in the U.S.
Then again, any pilot that doesn't do their homework before leaving one job for another, has nobody to blame but themselves.

littlejet

20th Feb 2017, 05:04

So I see nothing has changed here. Harry is still trying to manipulate emotionally (his manipulative attitude reminds me of Serbian idiot prime minister) and for some of you the only goal in life is to use the system for personal gain while the rest of the world can f burn...

Good luck Ashley.
I try not to judge, but I think people should have and act according to their ethical standards. Otherwise we are just a bunch of clueless living organisms wandering around without a common goal.

You launch full attack when someone opposes your opinion, however you sound quite diplomatic and a non-judgemental when one of your defendants did something non ethical and quite in line with the all the wrong things at EK you are claiming for the past years...

Pretty much like your beloved PM.

Don't lose your credibility over your personality

fatbus

20th Feb 2017, 05:21

EK pilots at their finest! This is a disgrace and they don't even realize it.

Nikita81

20th Feb 2017, 05:39

littlejet

20th Feb 2017, 06:36

@littlejet

That was not my full attack. :}

I would ask for an example of my non-consistent attitude, but I don't want to go off the topic. Next time, please describe your argument because I cannot consider your criticism seriously and maybe even change myself if I don't know what you are talking about. Thanks. :)

You're welcome.

I can copy and paste your posts here, I've read all of them...
You are judging Harry's posts for example, you don't miss an opportunity to bomb everyone who sides with EK, attacking them for taking an advantage of aledged slavery conditions selfishly for their own benefits.
We all know your story.
AK was a front face of EK for quite some time, the company who has stripped you of all dignity and showed you the reality of working conditions...I was expecting the same reaction from you however you have just sidelined on this one...Why?

The Outlaw

20th Feb 2017, 07:10

Geez Harry, still sensitive I see.

I or Nolimit have not made any derogatory or disparaging remarks about the lady.

What I have stated is that I would have more respect for the lady and the company if the film was factually balanced...its not. Again and in simple terms, when one tries to spin BS, one has to expect some backlash. There are more derogatory and disparaging remarks in an upgrade here, I'd expect she would have thicker skin than what you indicate.

I do not make assessments on people in 2 minutes, Its a process that builds over time. I can't speak for you Harry but your overly valiant attempts to defend the lady seems to indicate that there is more to the story.

Your position and posts seem to border on the "over-bearing" with regard to your stance on derogatory, disparaging, cyber bullying, and the like, nothing like that was stated by me or Nolimit, perhaps you are referring to another thread or posters?

Obviously we are on differing sides of the fence on this so best to leave it at that.

Nikita81

20th Feb 2017, 07:18

@littlejet

Because Ashley knew what she was signing up for.

You think I didn't have the opportunity to use my blue eyes, white skin, English language skills and education to get more from Dubai? To settle myself and secure my future?

Of all the living creatures on this world it seems that only people have reason, but it also seems they don't use it or use it for selfish purposes.

Ashley did the video. Then she left. She didn't help herself and she didn't help others. She gained something short term, but she lost in long terms. It's everyone's lost actually, because if people cannot use their reason to make this world a better place by simply having some ethical standards, then there is no difference between humans and plants, except plants are useful.

I respect women. Especially women in "male businesses", but I respect people with integrity more. And, like it or not, we all feel the consequences of our actions and choices. Our actions influence other people. Ashley knew that.

Sincere good luck to her, though. Who am I to judge?

littlejet

20th Feb 2017, 09:00

Well, I think you are biased...
Yes you have judged us males, yet you are refusing to judge her.
She was happy at EK, ignorant of your troubles same as all of us when you were getting fired and starting your war against the Company. You have underlined that many times.
I personally think that she did nothing wrong...we are not citizens of the Country, this is not our home and without real retirement or health benefits eternal loyalty is not expected.
As for the male business... never ending story. There is no male and female pilot license.

Nikita81

20th Feb 2017, 10:30

Well, women have tougher lives than men.

I said I didn't want to judge her, but it's clear from the context that I, actually, did. Couldn't even hide it from myself, so how come I've hid it from you? :)

TangoUniform

20th Feb 2017, 11:16

What gets me, is love fest that some to have for her. Oh she's nice, qualified, who can blame her and so on. The hypocrisy is rampent. As Panther mentioned, who here defended Captain America after his pr job on the front page of the Wall Street Journal? Other than himself......sort of. In fact, if I'm correct, he got his nickname after the article. But where is poor little girl's nickname? So all you defenders, if you were here eleven years ago, I'm glad you defended C.A. and now taking up for our beset upon Ashley? Or did you bash the C.A., but have to now guard against being politically incorrect? Seems like a lot here have vilified Nikita, who seems to be able to stand up for herself, but have to play big brother to our poor Ashley? That's how I'm reading it.

BTW, I know she was very disappointed in her roll on the ED chat show. She only got to spin the prize wheel. She was hoping to get "noticed".

BigGeordie

20th Feb 2017, 11:31

I think "Captain Barbie" works quite well.

She's a big girl, she can take it.

harry the cod

20th Feb 2017, 11:34

But not as big as you, hey Geordie! ;)

Harry

GoreTex

20th Feb 2017, 11:38

to call her Captain Barbie is the idea of an assh**e, leave her alone, grow some balls and leave too

BigGeordie

20th Feb 2017, 11:49

Oh, touchy.

So it is okay to pick on the male Instagram heroes but the attractive (eye of the beholder and all that) women are off limits, are they?

And "If you don't like it leave". Classy.

glofish

20th Feb 2017, 13:08

I wonder if one of the famous DCPA or DCPB had been the protagonist, would they have had as many groupies step in for them ...... ?

paokara

21st Feb 2017, 03:25

Where did Ashley go anyway

The Outlaw

21st Feb 2017, 05:20

Good Point TU,

I had forgotten all about Tartanguy, the man with the tartan nose and brown boat, or was it the other way around?

Of course his reasons were different though, he was kissing up for a office job with ED if memory serves. But your points seem to have validity in that the prettier you are (subjective, of course), the more justified the action is. Tartanguy was a capable pilot as well but he didn't have others defending him.

I wonder if he and Harry were both fans of the sea?

nolimitholdem

22nd Feb 2017, 07:46

Man, the way Harry gushes on about her based on what - one flight? - you'd think he was the proud papa. I had my own meeting in person, outside the training college after a sim while we all waited for the Volvos to be assigned. Frankly my impression wasn't quite as glowing as Harry's (hope that's not too "disparaging"?). Perhaps she thought, as many with an inflated idea of their own attractiveness do, that anyone who is trying to kill time with small talk is looking for more? But hey, maybe not, anyone can have a bad day. No doubt she felt more comfortable with Harry, being of a non-threatening, more "fatherly" generation.

Didn't give it a thought then, only made the connection back when the video came out. And wouldn't even have mentioned it now except Harry's comments about "anonymous posters" slagging someone, while he himself is anonymously blowing sunshine up everyone's ar$e, struck me as illogical if not hypocritical. One anonymous comment does not bear more weight than another. And I have not said a thing I wouldn't say in person, given the opportunity, if I thought it was worth the effort. I don't.

The irony is my comments were remarking on the optics of the decision to leave, not the person. It was Harry who decided to make it an issue of character. I'm solely interested in how EK would spin the question of someone they pumped a lot of PR money into, bailing to their home country and airline so soon after so publicly expounding the wonders of expat life in Dubai and the exotic opportunities associated. I really don't care to either vilify or glorify the person involved. EK was the target of my comments, not her.

But like others I do think it's interesting that Harry isn't exactly leaping to the defense of the other Instagram heroes. I guess bullying is in the eye of the beholder.

Stick with your Bentleys and yachts, Harry. I highly doubt this woman needs your help. Unlike you, she got out.

sluggums

22nd Feb 2017, 07:56

Very good nolimit...!

harry the cod

22nd Feb 2017, 21:26

"EK was the target of my comments, not her". Which is why in post 141 you referred to 2 individuals as 'Duchie and Barbie". Or is that just banter?

"And I have not said a thing I wouldn't say in person......"

Sure. No doubt about it, she'd love to have been addressed as Barbie while you waited for your Volvo. Your efforts at back peddling and deflection from the accusation of individual bullying are commendable but transparent in their insincerity.

At least sluggums believes you.

Harry

5star

23rd Feb 2017, 05:21

Same here: Top bid, high in seniority and just got 1 thing I asked for. Everything else ignored or even opposite of what I put in. tx also for keeping my days-off under 10 again.
Well done AAR and all the idiots who helped 'tailer' the jepp. bidding app EK-style! :yuk: u surely did a great job! :mad:

Viking777

23rd Feb 2017, 05:44

Second top bid month for me and........nothing I bid for. AGAIN. This is really starting to get old. All I can hope for is a good second top bid month since my Top bid month is always ruined by training. "your PPC was moved into your top bid month for operational reasons". Yeah, that never gets old. EVER.

glofish

23rd Feb 2017, 05:58

Same, same here. Not one preference and to add insult to injury they never gave me more than 2 days off in a row. This makes a swap almost impossible, anytime you wanted to swap and take a day off with it either side, it's illegal, because you NEED two days off every fortnight.

What bothers me even more, is to see many flights i wished for on the swap page, but unable to swap (see above). It's really insulting.

I am also quite senior and checking the buddies receiving my preferred flights, it turns out they are junior and in no better bid group. I suspect this is done on purpose, to get the old guys pi$$ed and opt out. We seem too expensive ....

I wrote to the higher levels, as usual without any substantial result nor intellectual reflection.

harry the cod

23rd Feb 2017, 15:47

SS

Are the support guys able to help by looking at the bid requested vs bid achieved? Have not used them with the new system but were helpful several years ago in highlighting a few gotchas and limitations of the system.

Until we have a proper bid line system, there will always be the opportunity for cock ups on both sides of the line. The fact that our DSVP waxed lyrical over the increase of choices from 5 to 10 says it all really.

Glo

Agreed. We also used to have open time but that's disappeared. The problem is we have a system that COULD work but it needs the correct amount of crew to facilitate it. We don't have the correct number, simple as that. Until we do, it'll never be as good as it's claimed to be.

Harry

Trader

23rd Feb 2017, 16:49

It will also never work as long as the swap system has rules that are far more restrictive than the legal requirements.

Divertnow

23rd Feb 2017, 18:07

The levels of fatigue in the company are shocking. How much longer can they keep this up before the cracks are too big to paper over? It seems like self awarding days off or leaving are the only choices if you don't want to be utterly destroyed by these rosters.

Monarch Man

24th Feb 2017, 05:31

Surprise surprise

When asked how the system awards flights in bottom three bid groups the answer was "we don't know!" - from the roster planners themselves! That about sums the system up!
In the bottom three groups as there is no seniority it just fills up the flights as it wants!
And yes I have asked ....... to no avail!

I'm beginning to wonder if AS also before he left received any incentives to implement this system? Why does it always appear that our chiefs want to reinvent the wheel and along the way destroy the functionality of some perfectly adequate systems.
No rostering software can construct a 6000 pilot programme to fit a 4400 one, but not to worry...everyone wants to join...risk free training, an open non punitive culture and best of all the lifestyle and aura of living in paradise :ugh:

Ironically, as I posted this, the obligatory EK recruitment ad was present at the bottom of the page "15 cities in 31 days" it said, a flavour of your future roster Ladies and gents.

Officer Kite

24th Feb 2017, 09:34

everyone wants to join

I am aware that was tongue in cheek btw.

I'm hopefully about to get myself onto the very bottom rung of the "pilot ladder", and EK doesn't appeal to me as a career goal anymore (this was my biggest dream/goal growing up and in college), nor does it appeal to those of my age who are just about reaching the ek hours requirment, far better opportunities here at home lined up (Europe), they're not even bothering to apply. It's amazing how different people's view of the place is, even among my peers just out of training, from dream to nightmare. From what I can gather, those still focusing on EK tend to be African, south east Asian, and the blind/ignorant. I do worry about people still there though, cos if few are joining, and people are still leaving, then who will help relieve your rosters :confused:

cerbus

24th Feb 2017, 13:30

Who are applying?
Not The Best and the Brightest that's for sure.
Where does this end?

The Outlaw

24th Feb 2017, 17:24

I think we all know know where it will end...just a when.

Emma Royds

24th Feb 2017, 22:30

The airline is simply a means to an end nowadays. You get the experience you need for where you wish to go next and move on.

Freedomfromopression

23rd Jul 2019, 17:59

SOPS

25th Jul 2019, 13:25

Have you considered 123, that he did not own a property to rent out?

felixthecat

25th Jul 2019, 13:40

7 years and you came back with nothing?

How is that possible? My mate was there 3 years and he came back with money. He is actually debating to rejoin. BA is not what he expected.

Plus 7 years how much did you earn from renting your property out?

Isn’t there a 5 year bond that has to be paid off if you leave within that period? Your mate at BA must have done very well indeed to leave, pay off a bond and still have cash to spare.

What has renting his house (assuming he has one to rent) in wherever got to do with Emirates?

bananaman2

25th Jul 2019, 23:01

Isn’t there a 5 year bond that has to be paid off if you leave within that period? Your mate at BA must have done very well indeed to leave, pay off a bond and still have cash to spare.

What has renting his house (assuming he has one to rent) in wherever got to do with Emirates?

not that it’s my question to answer but the 5year bond only came in the last 2years or something like that, it was 3years before that from what I remember.

felixthecat

26th Jul 2019, 06:25

not that it’s my question to answer but the 5year bond only came in the last 2years or something like that, it was 3years before that from what I remember.

A good point Bananman, but equally demonstrates that with the changes to the T&C the last few years that what ‘may’ have been possible cash wise probably isn’t anymore.

Adam Barfy

26th Jul 2019, 09:20

not that it’s my question to answer but the 5year bond only came in the last 2years or something like that, it was 3years before that from what I remember.

They changed from 3yr to 5yr bond in 2014

Freedomfromopression

26th Jul 2019, 10:53

BigGeordie

26th Jul 2019, 11:18

They changed from 3yr to 5yr bond in 2014
Time flies when you are having fun.

Freedomfromopression

26th Jul 2019, 11:26

It’s only fair to share experiences with potential new hires at EK. It’s a long prison sentence if you realise after 1year that you made a mistake. I know of several people who are still at EK and describe their feeling as being on a permanent heightened state of anxiety and pressure pot of anger.

When they see the cost of a jar of pasta sauce costing 5 or 6 times more than the price in the UK you start to see exactly where your money goes in UAE. Cellblock H or meydan south and the regular problems, the list just goes on. I wish I had never made the move away from UK. I have had 3 pay rises in just over 12 months and a big fat bonus yesterday. You don’t even get the contractual pay rises at EK.....the ones written in black and white! Am I lying at EK guys???? Let the newbies know the truth at least

Emma Royds

27th Jul 2019, 10:56

I told my FO yesterday about the ridiculous emirates “congratulations handshake” after each flight! I have to say, that did start a laugh and imitation game! Who on earth invented that??

There is nothing wrong to shake your colleague's hand at the completion of a trip, especially when the odds of seeing them again are rather low. If it's my name in the Tech Log, then I am just grateful for the help provided by my colleague(s) on the flight deck. It' s not unique to EK but it would be a different story in a small base with a handful of crew you see often.

Spamcam

27th Jul 2019, 13:23

I honestly don't know why people still go there. It is probably one of the most toxic and stressful work environments that takes its toll on you after a few years. The whole region especially Dubai thrives on consumerism and money and the whole system is quite sickening and messed up. The constant stress, lack of sleep, consumer driven rat-race is just nauseating. There is much more to life than that.
I left EK after a brief 3 years and returned home (third world country by the way). The absolute joy and appreciation I get from everyday normal life is hard to explain. Yes I earn less money, but I realized money can not buy you the simple things in life - fresh air, nature, greenery, rain etc.
For the guys going there now beware - It is a slave-ship. You will lose all passion for flying within a few years. I've warned so many of my colleagues here at home and still they go... However a few phoned me after a few months to check how things are back home as they realized they made a mistake and wanted to come back... Just saying....

The African Dude

27th Jul 2019, 14:38

Guys. I’m just being honest about leaving. It was the best move I ever did. I told my FO yesterday about the ridiculous emirates “congratulations handshake” after each flight! I have to say, that did start a laugh and imitation game! Who on earth invented that??

Who is saying congratulations? In my flight deck before EK I always shook my colleague’s hand to say thanks for a nice day out, in the interest of professional courtesy. Had always assumed that was the same intention here at EK, not least because it’s the last thing you want to be hanging around for when your suitcase finally makes an appearance.

Or what?

Mister

27th Jul 2019, 15:42

There is nothing wrong to shake your colleague's hand at the completion of a trip, especially when the odds of seeing them again are rather low. If it's my name in the Tech Log, then I am just grateful for the help provided by my colleague(s) on the flight deck. It' s not unique to EK but it would be a different story in a small base with a handful of crew you see often.

Maybe he is talking about the " congratulations, another day without going to the office ( for tea and biscuits) " congratulations handshake?. I remember it happening quite often specially after a training flight 😁😜. Might be wrong and he is talking about a normal handshake, which I see normal and do after every flight.

Jack D

28th Jul 2019, 00:06

Who is saying congratulations? In my flight deck before EK I always shook my colleague’s hand to say thanks for a nice day out, in the interest of professional courtesy. Had always assumed that was the same intention here at EK, not least because it’s the last thing you want to be hanging around for when your suitcase finally makes an appearance.

Or what?

I used to do the same ... seemed quite normal and the collegial thing to do, why not !

Obviously the person mocking this practice is unaware of social norms and should be ignored

arena1

28th Jul 2019, 05:14

Could anyone give a reasonable idea as to time to upgrade chance?

cheers
arena1

fatbus

28th Jul 2019, 20:50

Arena1 , really?

arena1

28th Jul 2019, 23:51

Yes really

Capn Rex Havoc

29th Jul 2019, 13:16

Good morning all could someone share a month roster on 777/787, time away from Doha days on and off. I have read a lot of the EK posts, is Qatar roster pattern more or less the same??

The answer to your question is on the threads. That’s why fatbus said really.

arena1

29th Jul 2019, 14:19

Does anyone have an idea about time to command at EK??

cheers

SOPS

29th Jul 2019, 22:48

Does anyone have an idea about time to command at EK??

cheers

Read the threads. It’s all there.

arena1

29th Jul 2019, 23:41

Yeah that sounds like fun it’s such a good read

WB1900

30th Jul 2019, 05:49

Yeah that sounds like fun it’s such a good read

i try to be nice
presently it’s about 5 years
but if u are sick for too many days over a Periode of 2 years - therefore your attendance record is bad - you will be delayed - that is also depending on which fleet you are on. Further it does not matter - since recently - if it’s certified or not - your attendance is lacking behind
that may cost you up to 2 years
if you are in a lucky position to get more checking than training in your upgrade your are faster out than you blink with an eye - waiting for a re-attempt 24 month plus u have done the process again which leads to more likely 3 years waiting
In regards to the airplanes arriving ( new types ) if you are on the wrong fleet it will cost you easily 2 years if somebody in the management makes a clear und understandable deceision over how much experience is needed to operate an airplane
so all together if I are lucky it’s 5, if not than accurately said somewhere between 5 and 12 years

a little hint on the side: if you are unwilling to read threads here - suggested ones - between the lines, you will have difficulties to read EK documentation as all the info you need is spread out over several manuals which are not liked and update together

arena1

30th Jul 2019, 07:39

WB1900 I really appreciate the detailed info you provided, I understand it is frustrating repeating info on here but sometimes reading through this stuff is as fun as chewing glass.

regards
arena1

Pif Paf

30th Jul 2019, 09:11

Arena 1 - you'll do fine as an FO at emirates, the new type of "millennial" pilot, one who expects everyone to do the work for him rather than doing some research himself!
If you'd tried to read through some of the threads but still didn't understand then Ok, but from the sound of it that was too much like hard work!
Thinking about coming half way around the world to join a company you have no idea about and yet can't be bothered to read about it!!!!
Duh, as I said you're just the type EK are looking for!!
PS And getting an upgrade with your attitude - unlikely!
See you at EK soon no doubt!!

italian stallion

30th Jul 2019, 10:50

Some people cleary have too much time on their hands and nothing better to do other than troll Pprune.

Daddy Fantastic

30th Jul 2019, 14:22

After reading one disaster story after another at EK over the last couple of years which includes, parking aeroplanes because they are short of crew, crew leaving due to fatigue, Nazi style management, attendance records holding people back from upgrade even if they were approved by the company for sick leave, imprisonment for not paying back a bond which has also since increased form 3 to 5 years....

One simply has to ask why anybody in their right mind would join this outfit? Surely with all the parked aeroplanes and loss of flight crew EK must really be rethinking their hiring and employment strategy as this one is just not working and the word has spread that its a rubbish job and the tax free money of yesteryear is not what it used to be..

I really dont see how much longer EK can keep this lunacy going for!!

arena1

30th Jul 2019, 15:11

Pif Paf thanks for your invaluable advice, bite me:ok:

KippaLippa

30th Jul 2019, 17:06

They still come because they come from places where Dubai is seen as a paradise.
and it is indeed paradise if you come from some places in India or Bangladesh, just to name a couple of places.
this doesn't mean that I regard Dubai as paradise compared to India or Bangladesh, quite the opposite.
But, from a professional pilot point of view, and management style point of view (this I don't have a direct experience, just heard) Dubai is a great improvement.

My idea.

KL

fatbus

30th Jul 2019, 18:06

Arena1 ,you'll fit in just right . Typical !

Adam Barfy

30th Jul 2019, 19:51

Pif Paf thanks for your invaluable advice, bite me:ok:

This from the guy who was asking about upgrade..... PMSL

felixthecat

31st Jul 2019, 03:34

WB1900 I really appreciate the detailed info you provided, I understand it is frustrating repeating info on here but sometimes reading through this stuff is as fun as chewing glass.

regards
arena1

You want to commit you and your family to 5 years plus of your lives in airline and foreign country, yet can’t be bothered to spend an hour researching and reading?

It’s Ok for others to repeat themselves ad-infinitum so you don’t have to ‘chew glass’, whilst they have to ‘chew glass’ repeating themselves yet again for you.

You also expect the command quickly again, without putting in the work? You then get upset at peoples comments as to your laziness, not really a great start is it.....

Jonathan01

31st Jul 2019, 07:12

Jonathan01

31st Jul 2019, 07:38

Having left EK and now settled into my new ‘lovely’ home I cannot believe how happy and free I feel. I wasted 7yrs in Dubai, and came away with nothing but anxiety over sim checks, road rage, reduced crew ULR flights, delirious sleep habits, planning of vacations and general BS! My pension fund has grown at twice the rate of EK (and no threat to take even a penny from me if I leave tomorrow!). I am now part of a company that has respect for every employee. I literally feel free to live! The bags under my eyes have gone! I have more excess cash in my pocket each month than I did at EK! Anyone that says that the EU only offers the likes of FR is wrong! The gulf is losing the last bit of appeal. Good luck to the die hards

Is that down to improved spending habits? Because looking at it at face value - you had tax free salary + accommodation paid. In your home country you would have to pay taxes + mortgage (unless you're mortgage free). Looks like you've probably looked at your spending habits and worked on it. Or maybe someone else is funding you ancillary spends and hence more money in your pocket ?

SOPS

31st Jul 2019, 12:13

Off thread a bit. A friend just sent me a video of the Norwegian pilot crew rest on their 787s. Even a so called LCC, can have the proper Boeing crew rest. Makes EK look like a complete joke.

whatsyourbeef

31st Jul 2019, 13:02

You also expect the command quickly again, without putting in the work?

He did not say or imply that anywhere. :)

LHR Rain

31st Jul 2019, 20:30

. Even a so called LCC, can have the proper Boeing crew rest. Makes EK look like a complete joke.

Everything about EK is a complete joke. The salary, the hours, the accommodation, and of course Dubai.
What type of pilot would consider this laugh sheet? I know the ones I am flying with.

glofish

1st Aug 2019, 07:59

To be fair, not everything about EK is that bad. Compared to legacy carriers it might not hold up, but those represent about 10% of the industry. Then there are the Chinese outfits ….. but compared to the rest, EK can hold some ground.

For the newbees or wannabees I would mention two problems:

One are the hours. The net ones, the ones on the back side of the clock and the ones with excruciating time zone differences. It’s only when you no longer fly them, that you realise how much time of your life they actually chewed away from you.

Two is the polluted air of Dubai, very rarely mentioned here. Again, it is only when you’ve been away in a cleaner environment for a while, that you realise how much better you sleep, how much less you snore (the wifey thanks you) because your throat and nose are more sane. The constant smog and sand-dust in the UAE take a toll. If compared to Indian or Chinese cities, Dubai may seem almost clean (think about that when opting for a Chinese outfit). But try living in an average, smaller European or American city for two months. It’s literally an eye opener.

LHR Rain

1st Aug 2019, 18:25

[QUOTE=glofish;10533701]To be fair, not everything about EK is that bad. Compared to legacy carriers it might not hold up, but those represent about 10% of the industry./QUOTE]

EK is bad in every capacity and not by a little bit. By a lot!
Dont you think you’re the top 10% of the pilot group? So why shouldn’t you be top 10% of pay and working conditions?
The two reasons you mentioned for not joining EK are huge, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg. There are many more valid reasons not to join.

FlightDetent

1st Aug 2019, 19:41

You are not top ten, and OTOH you are paid in the top 10 bracket. Those are not the issues, just saying.

LHR Rain

1st Aug 2019, 20:13

Which bracket are you referring to and what currency are you basing your Top 10 on?
Just a starting point, we’re not even close to the top but I’ll give you we’re in the Top Half of Pilots.
If you just include International Widebody carriers than we’re in the Bottom 50%.

FlightDetent

1st Aug 2019, 21:22

USD net income + pension / provident + housing + education + insurances + medical cover (cost of equivalent) + perks (otherwise taxable). Who else pays better NET, (save for US legacies)? I do suggest everyone in Europe (geographical) gets provided less. I do not wish to be confrontational, after all we agreed on the first half which probably triggered me to chime in, and yes it's just a wild guess from my side.

I have good faith with the majority here saying the cost of the place and life experience makes the income for many just not worth it, even by quite a margin. That's a different kettle of fish to what you said, hence my remark.