A320 Hot Weather Ops Question

[A320drvr]

I've researched this and haven't found an answer yet.

For example, say your company policy is to leave the flaps at 1+F on taxi in to avoid an AIR L (R) WING LEAK warning when temperatures are >30 C or more.

Your the new crew that picks up the plane that just came in. You do your preflight checks and come to the Take Off CONFIG check. I'm thinking the test won't work because the flaps/slats were left in the take off position (1+F).

So, my question is:
What are other operators doing at this point?
Are they retracting the flaps/slats to up and then doing the Take Off CONFIG test?
Are other operators lowering the flaps/slats to 1+F after completion of the Take Off CONFIG test?

Thank you in advance!

[compressor stall]

The test does work -the takeoff config pb does just what it's meant to - amongst other things testing that the flaps are not at 0. That's satisfied by the residual 1+F. There is no requirement for the takeoff config test to be done at Flap 0 (in fact you'll get a very loud warning!) which seems to be what you're implying?

And that's why the cockpit setup procedure has for Flaps to check that the handle matches the flap indication on the ECAM. thus it can be at Flap 1.

[Uplinker]

We don't use the take-off config test when preparing the aircraft on the ramp before pushback.

We use it just before we line up on the runway. It is to simulate the application of take-off engine power, and if any monitored system is not set correctly, a master warning will be triggered. This test allows us to remedy the mis-selection before we actually apply take-off power.

Flap setting is one parameter which is tested in this way. If the actual flap setting is not the same as that which we have programmed in the take-off performance page of the FMGS the config warning will be triggered.

[safelife]

Unfortunately that is not the case, Uplinker...

[Carnage Matey!]

We tend to run a mix of Airbus/company/we-did-it that-way-on-Boeing procedures on our Airbus fleet but we only press the TO Config test as the last item on the Before T/O checklist. Who's pressing it before then, and why?

[seen_the_box]

If the actual flap setting is not the same as that which we have programmed in the take-off performance page of the FMGS the config warning will be triggered.

On the A320, and assuming there hasn't been a software update I'm not aware of (which is always entirely possible), there will be no warning as long as the flaps are set to a takeoff setting. The system doesn't check that the actual flap setting tallies with that in the FMGC.

[CaptainMongo]

The system doesn't check that the actual flap setting tallies with that in the FMGC.


True, and I have always wondered why it did not. It would be one more back up to ensure that the pilots, aircraft and take off data are on the same page, so to speak.

[compressor stall]

If the actual flap setting is not the same as that which we have programmed in the take-off performance page of the FMGS the config warning will be triggered.

Uplinker - as others have said the T/O CONFIG just checks that there is a plausible flap setting for takeoff (CONF1, 2 or 3). It does NOT xcheck the FMGC.

These guys got caught out (and the skipper thought the same as you).
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5199980/AO-2014-129%20Final.pdf

[Cak]

On very old A320 it used to do that check for flaps and it would give a warning if the FMGC flaps setting was different then actual one.....

[Check Airman]

Uplinker - as others have said the T/O CONFIG just checks that there is a plausible flap setting for takeoff (CONF1, 2 or 3). It does NOT xcheck the FMGC.

Quite disappointing that the warning doesn't check the flap setting. You'd think that it'd be an easy fix- sort of like the lack of a "fuel leak" alert in the FMS- which Boeing implemented ages ago.

[sierra_mike]

depending on your FMGS software standard you will receive an ECAM caution "F/CTL FLAP/MCDU DISAGREE" after pressing TO CONFIG pb/applying TO power if MCDU and actual flap setting don't match. this update also incorporates a function which compares your typed in TO speeds to VMC/Vs1g from an internal database. in case your inputs were too low for your entered ZFW, blockfuel, TO config then FMGS will notify you via an amber scratchpad message "TO SPEED TOO LOW"
i must admit those functions came with a fairly recent update though.

[Check Airman]

i must admit those functions came with a fairly recent update though.

Which FMS software version are you running? How can I check to see if my fleet has this update? We're getting planes from the factory every month, and our manuals don't contain any such information.

[sonicbum]

Hi Check Airman,

pick up an msn and check in DSC-22 MCDU message list (don't have the FCOM handy so can't give you the proper reference) if the the "TO SPEED TOO LOW" message is there. Check in PRO-ABN F/CTL if the caution FLAP/MCDU DISAGREE is there as well.

Cheers.

[Check Airman]

Just checked. No such FMS or ECAM message.

[Dan Winterland]

Maybe not in your operator's FWC software. Airbus are happy to change the FWC warnings on operator request. And of course different configurations will require this.

[dream747]

We have the F/CTL PITCH TRIM/MCDU/CG DISAGREE warning, but not the FLAP/MCDU disagree warning.

It's a recent update like the others have mentioned. But I would have thought the FLAP/MCDU discrepancy would be included in the update. :confused:

[sierra_mike]

to my knowledge it's FMGS update S7A/T5A (thales) but i have no other idea than asking your engineering department which software is in your magic box.
documentation-wise in the FCOM i can't find a reference either. this update was announced to be successively introduced to our fleet in the near future. maybe the fact that this update is not fully implemented yet is the reason why the FCOM is still lacking information about this new (hidden:}) features.

[Escape Path]

We operate in tropical weather so we do a lot of that flaps 1+F after landing. It makes no difference as far as the function of the TO config pb goes. We press it on taxi pattern flow we use before running the before takeoff check. Our aircraft also test for "flaps on feasible takeoff config", it doesn't give a monkey whether that's 1+F, 2 or 3, something I feel it could be quite handy for us as we usually use 1+F for most takeoffs and therefore one can easily select 1+F from memory instead of 3...