View Full Version : A 330 Take off Light Usage at Night Landings
JABBARA
28th Apr 2016, 10:17
Hi Folks,
Although it is not a recommended procedure by AIB, I notice there is a tendency among the pilots for the usage of Take Off Light at Night landings. There could be Pros but at least there is one negative side that I am aware particularly when there is a little bit haze.
Kindly, can you share your experiences?
Regards
tom775257
28th Apr 2016, 10:50
On the 320 I use it as a confirmation of landing clearance received, nothing more than that.
RAT 5
28th Apr 2016, 11:06
What's it got to do with a/c type?
JABBARA
28th Apr 2016, 11:26
What's it got to do with a/c type?
The location of TO lights may vary...
Jonty
28th Apr 2016, 11:32
I use them during day and night for landing. As long as the vis is good.
RAT 5
28th Apr 2016, 19:49
The location of TO lights may vary...
Is it not the case that landing lights & takeoff lights tend to shine in the direction of take off & landing? Therefore any glare-back will be reflected back to the cockpit windows. Equally, as both are shining in the direction of motion will that not enhance night visibility on a clear night. Perhaps I'm missing something??
Check Airman
29th Apr 2016, 04:42
You'd find our SOP's curious as well. In addition to the takeoff lights for landing, we use the landing lights for takeoff...
Intruder
29th Apr 2016, 08:32
Does the A330 have separate Takeoff lights, or is he referring to the Runway Turnoff lights (side-facing taxi lights)??
Jonty
29th Apr 2016, 11:01
You'd find our SOP's curious as well. In addition to the takeoff lights for landing, we use the landing lights for takeoff...
We also use the landing gear for take off. It's all very strange!
Check Airman
29th Apr 2016, 11:28
We also use the landing gear for take off. It's all very strange!
Indeed. You guys have it backwards. We refer to it as takeoff gear before flight. We don't use the term landing gear until it's time to land.
dash6
29th Apr 2016, 14:49
Never heard of a take off light.Could someone translate it into Boeing?
Jonty
29th Apr 2016, 17:53
Nose gear light
vilas
29th Apr 2016, 18:23
Boeings and Airbuses both have taxi lights and landing lights which you also use for take off but Airbus has taxi light which has take off position and is put to take off position for take off. It is on the nose gear and is angled specifically for take off which is not suitable for landing.
RAT 5
29th Apr 2016, 18:45
It is on the nose gear and is angled specifically for take off which is not suitable for landing.
Hot damn. When I'm approaching terra firma at high speed I like to see where it is and so judge the crash point. Hence lights. I'v never thought about needing a light to help me see where I'm going at lift off. Lots of umph, pull back and release the earthly bonds. Seems to work every time.
Jonty
29th Apr 2016, 21:01
not suitable for landing
Rubbish, it works very well for landing.
dash6
29th Apr 2016, 21:46
Well I am informed! After 24K hours,mostly Boeing;I have flown with,and talked to many aviators of all types (and persuasions ) and have never heard this mentioned. Clearly a nose gear landing light is not good enough for an A330,so what is so different?
Jonty
30th Apr 2016, 06:31
It's labelled TO on the overhead panel. It points in various directions depending on who last played with it, and it lights up.
It seems people are just over thinking it.
Works well lighting up dark taxyways too.
Oh and before you say it not with any other Aircraft facing me.
Just like high beams in my car
vilas
30th Apr 2016, 14:42
Jonty
Below is the FCOM procedure for the Taxi light during landing. Why do you think the manufacturer doesn't think it works for landing? And taxi and take off are two separate lights. Taxi light is focused in front and in take off position the take off light comes on and is focussed further down the runway. During approach and flare with pitch 3 degrees or more how does it help in landing care to explain? It is not people are over thinking but it is you who hasn't haven't given a thought.
WHEN FLAPS ARE AT 2
L/G DOWN ............................................................ ............................................................ ....ORDER
L/G lever....................................................... ............................................................ SELECT DOWN
AUTO BRK ............................................................ ............................................................ CONFIRM
‐ If the runway conditions have changed from the approach briefing, consider another braking mode.
GROUND SPOILERS ............................................................ ....................................................ARM
EXTERIOR LIGHTS...................................................... ............................................................ ...SET
Set NOSE sw to TAXI and RWY TURN OFF sw to ON.
JABBARA
30th Apr 2016, 22:16
Thanks for all sharing,
Final point what I extracted is: "Usage of it is Useless"
Villas,
A landing isn't just approach and flare. I think it is you who hasn't given it a thought.
I find the TO light very useful during the roll out, and also during the approach and flare.
If you want the opinion of Airbus, I suggest you email them.
goeasy
1st May 2016, 14:45
Airbus opinion is as published. T.O. Light not recommended for landing.
Choose to take or ignore their advice.
I believe the reason is the TO light is aimed too high( If correctly adjusted) so only adds glare without lighting up touchdown point. Seems sensible to me!
As long as the engineers haven't stuffed up the adjustments/installation, and I have flown some buses that I felt the two lights were reversed....
I'm astonished. Not seeing wood for trees, and over complicating an issue - come to mind. If you dare use the 'takeoff light' on landing it's not going to knock the a/c out of the sky. Why not just try it and see: no pun intended. How can such a piece of trivia become a No No SOP? Can sensibility please return to our world.
Rat and Jonty
Goeasy has given the correct reason. If anybody needs to go to airbus it is you and not me. you are the wise guy so check with them. They have already said what it is for. I know airlines which forbid it's use for landing. If you find it useful then perhaps your airline has non standard setting for the light. In any case you can do what you want but SOP cannot be rubbished. Rat there are many things if you did or didn't the airplane doesn't fall off the sky but with that mind set sometimes they do as in the case of Air Asia Indonesia.
goeasy
4th May 2016, 04:50
And if the manufacturer certifies the aircraft with that instruction included, then why go counter too it, and face the imminent question from a lawyer, after an incident. It can be used to show your disregard for instructions.
This is the world we live in these days. Litigation fever. And arse-covering is the consequence! 'Common sense' wont get you out of jail.
People, it's a light.
Are we really so far gone as thinking human beings that we cannot switch it on because Airbus doesn't explicitly say we should?
It really is a worry when 'pilots' are so hamstrung by their inability to think for themselves that they cannot switch on a light unless it explicitly says they should.
However, I think this probably says more about the different cultures in different airlines and parts of the world, than it does about lights.
Villas,
This one line in your post makes me hope I never get on your aircraft.
SOP cannot be rubbished
SOPs are not perfect, please don't think they are.
Anyway, enough time has been spent arguing about a light. Maybe we should move on to the toilet door lock? Now where was that mentioned in the SOPs?
hikoushi
4th May 2016, 07:44
How about we discuss the weight-on-wheels switchover logic between the Vacuum Waste System Autoflush and the air compressor manual Flush-Control Motor? And the different pressure differentials they create on the rinse ring mechanism of the toilet. More importantly, how high up you need to be in the A330 to create enough differential toilet suction to run an entire roll of toilet paper down the cabin aisle with one end stuck in the toilet, and have it instantly inhale the entire thing upon flush.
Tried it at FL340 during a mid-flight "cabin inspection" on a ferry flight once, running the roll forward from the lav at the L2 door, through the first-class aisle, through the galley, and into the open cockpit. Set the end down on the jumpseat, walked back to the L2 lav, blocked the door open, ripped the paper off the roll, stuck the other end down into the lav, and gave it a Vac-U-Flush. It did pretty good but still only made it a quarter of the way down before the paper broke off. Next time gotta try the good 2-ply stuff and not the El Cheapo wax paper rolls they cater on the airplanes. Maybe take it up to FL410, and have someone else walk the roll back to keep the paper free of binding on seats, etc.
Ba-WHOOOOOSH!!!!!!
Regarding earlier discussions I will add it is CONFOUNDING to my simple mind that a TAKEOFF flap setting (2) is also known as "approach flaps". What insidious ogre of an engineer designed such a system, knowing what a trap it would put in place for a pilot who does not share his mathematical expertise?:ugh:
Jonty
SOPs are not perfect. True! but if Jontys don't like it is the criterion then there will be no SOP. You go to the manufacturer and ask him. He has the software, the hardware the test pilots. I can give you an incident where three airlines could have come to grief for changing a procedure without consulting the manufacturer.