Flight Crew Accommodation Standards

[The Potter]

Does anyone know what the minimum standards of crew accommodation should be when flight crew are night stopping away from base? Are there rules regarding things such as private facilities, a phone line, that the accommodation is cleaned etc?

I ask this question as one of my former colleagues now works for Euroceltic & they are using holiday chalets in which to night stop the crew. No private bathroom, no phone lines, no smoke detectors, no lock on the bedroom door & rarely cleaned. They are planning to put them up, shortly, in a house which has 4 bedrooms & 2 bathrooms, both a late crew & an early crew. That will mean at least 4 people sharing just 2 bathrooms & the obvious disturbance from each set of crews.

Any info would be greatly appreciated.


:confused: :confused:

[Herod]

I don't know of any specific rules, but our Ops Manual states " A well furnished room which is subject to minimum noise, is well ventilated, and has the facility to control the levels of light and temperature". In reality, BALPA would not approve a hotel for our crews at less than individual rooms, with private bath/shower, double beds, telephone and radio/TV. Most hotels, to gain approval, have to provide these basics to a good standard, i.e. the type of hotel we use also probably has a leisure centre, decent bar and restaurant.

[Miles2000]

Not acceptable by any means, Potter. For one thing, if any of the crew are female and there is no lock on the bedroom door, any possible assault would be down to the company. Similarly, with no smoke detector, the company would be liable (possibly up for a charge of corporate manslaughter).

The generally-accepted standard is that, if the company requires people to be away from home, the accommodation must be equal to or better than their home accommodation. Means of ensuring their privacy and security is therefore essential, cleanliness must be of an acceptable standard, phone lines available, with private bathrooms.

[The Potter]

Thanks very much for the information Herod & Miles2000. Now he just has to find out which way to turn to get a reasonable standard of hotel. I'll get him to try the CAA & if that brings no joy then perhaps BALPA will have an opinion on the matter.

I thought that it sounded odd to put crew up in such a low standard of accommodation. Mind you, word has it that the crew are also being ferried around by one of their managers who has a PPL/IR, single crew, in his MU2. This airline seems to regard standards & regulations quite lowly.

:( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(

[Willit Run]

The company will get away with whatever the crews will let them get away with.

In this climate, pilots are their own worst enemies. they will settle for just having a job, cause, there is one more whore banging at the door looking for the oppurtunity.

You need to get 3 or 4 pilots to sit down with the company and have a chat. cheap rooms have a way of becoming really expensive. Remember, you have control of the almighty pen and the logbook!!!

Hotel rooms that are below that of where you may live, are just not acceptable!!! You should not have to degrade your standard of living while at work!!!

Good Luck!

[Nugget90]

In connection with flight time limitations, a proposal has been made that ICAO might describe 'Suitable Accommodation' as, 'A suitably furnished bedroom, with single occupancy (if required by the crew member), which is subject to minimum noise, is clean, well ventilated, and has the facility to control levels of light and temperature, and which provides for the opportunity of undisturbed rest'.

If this description was to find its way into Annex 6 for application to commercial air transport operations, do you think it would be acceptable without further change?

[Sick]

min. 4* hotels

although 4* is a bit of a movable feast from country to country

saying departure will be delayed due lack of rest due cr@p accom works wonders - but if you can't sleap. you can't sleap and the law's the law.

[GlueBall]

Hilton, Marriott,Swisshotel.....or other equivalent (minimum 4 stars) type hotel.
Our contract requires crew hotels with restaurants or room service with availability of meals 24 hours per day. If a hotel has neither, then a nearby restaurant must be within walking distance.

[411A]

That hotel might be bad, but the idea of traveling 'round in an MU-2 flown by a ppl holder is a bit...scary.

[Captain Stable]

Many UK airlines now specify that the aircraft used for positioning crews must be 2-crew, operated by an AOC holder.

I think it could quite easily be argued that such a positioning flight is commercial. As such, the manager concerned is operating outside the privileges of his licence. If so, you will be completely uninsured in the event of any accident or injury.

[mustafagander]

I recall our association (AIPA) accom. rep stating that with hotels he worked on the "S.H.I.T.B.O.X." principle:-

Sheraton
Hilton
Intercontinental

Almost certainly acceptable

Trendy
Boutique
Out-of-the-way
X unknown

Have a physical inspection first.

WRT positioning, as I understand the Oz AIP, moving your own company people and property is defined as private ops in the regs. Insurance ought to be OK, but would the crew sit there and let some hick pilot (assuming he's demonstrated that he's a dud) fly them????

[basil fawlty]

Standard of hotel accomodation is usually a matter for local agreement between an airline and its crews. The requirements are usually stated in the company flight ops manual.
For example in our company the following criteria must be met.

1. Individual rooms for each crewmember with ensuite bathroom.
2. Quiet rooms, should be on an upper floor (away from street noise), away from elevators and preferably doubled glazed.
3. Rooms should have curtains so that it can be "blacked out" to allow sleep during the day
4. Smoke detector and sprinkler system in all rooms.
5. Direct access to telephone.
6. 24 hour restaurant.
7. Within a maximum of one hours travelling time to the airport.

[TwinNDB]

Just so long as its not run by ..... Basil Fawlty :D

[basil fawlty]

Just remember, if you want a sea view "its over there between the land and the sky"!:D

[Fokkersearcher]

Can anyone give me the ADDRESS & PHONE numbers of Euroceltic Headquarters?
Anyone knows who's the owner of EUROCELTIC ?

You response is promptly appreciated .

[expedite_climb]

The Post House @ MAN. eurrgh. :-(

[HugMonster]

Their website (http://www.euroceltic-airways.co.uk/) seems to be offline at present. But found a couple of numbers - RESERVATIONS: IRELAND - (051) 875020 UK - 08 700 400 100

[The Potter]

Thanks for all of your replies. I'm just glad that our company provides the type of hotel that you can actually rest in. Euroceltic are just about to base crew in Sligo & Donegal. I hear that their management are negotiating with a local farmer to lease a hay loft for their crew!!

VLM are going to provide cover on their Waterford Luton route for six months while Euroceltic train their own crews on the F50; they tried to get the VLM crews to stay in the holiday chalets & were told where to go. They get hotel accommodation. I think it's a real slap in the face to all of the hard working guys who have kept going for the airline through thick & thin.

Good luck lads, & remember: when the job market picks up your management never took care of you.

As ye Sow so shall ye reap!!!