Flight Instructor Work???

[mr_seagull]

I am curious as to those who have done their FI(R) rating since September 11 how much work they have gained out of it??? I was VERY tempted to go along this route after completing my 'frozen ATPL' last August but have yet to decide if this is a good option. Yes, I know any training can only improve your skills but for 30 hours flying at approx. £5,500 would it not be better to do say the equivalent amount of quality, monitored, instrument route flying in say the USA to gain invalueable twin time??? I look forward to hearing your experiences out there... Cheers!!!

[covec]

Forget it.

As much hope of getting FI work as getting an FO job without an ATPL or IR.....

Sorry.

[mad_jock]

Well i have been a jammy git, got a full time job and flew approx 60 hours last month, could have done more but Gatwick were behined with lic issue.


And BTW i find instructing great fun and get alot of job statisfaction from teaching the punters. As with most jobs the FI jobs arn't advertised and most come through word of mouth. If you have a well connected FI instructor thats half the battle.

All the best

MJ

[foghorn]

mad_jock

Nice one - I'm glad you got the FI job. You are no doubt in a real minority there.

I binned out of an FI course half way thorugh last October for lack of cash and job prospects. Having seen a 2,000 hour FE friend who was made redundant from an airline struggle to get an FI job, I'm glad I did.

I'm desperate to finish off the rating and instruct... unfortunately I'm full-time employed out of aviation now.

cheers!
foggy.

[batty]

I think COVEC is being a little harsh. I have several friends who went the FI route after finishing flying training and have managed to get jobs. I think it is a sensible route to take since at the end of the day it clocks up the hours ( and cheaply )and keeps you in the avation circuit, for when a sniff of a job comes up.

What looks better to a employer at an interview, a guy who finished flying two years ago and has just done 20 hours private flying sice or a guy who finished two years ago and has another 1000 hours under his belt?

Its also important to remember that the airline jobs are hard to come by especialy for new pilots. If an airline comes knocking a year down the road looking for new F/Os then unless you have done something to keep you experience current, the guy who has just graduated and is current has the advantage.

I nearly did it myself but was lucky in the meantime.

[FormationFlyer]

yes! Me too!

I did my FI training Oct/Nov last year - now instruct at two schools - one I flew at already, other was word of mouth. Im very very happy - I *love* instructing and *wont* be giving it up when I get to the airlines....IRI course starts in July!!! Cant wait!!!! (almost unrestricted already)... :D

[Send Clowns]

Well my employer is trying to persuade me to do an FIR so I don't bu99er off to the US where I have been offered paid flying (only glider tow, not "quality" hours like instructing) or a job that would require me to fly (the second not pilot main job).

I have been chatting to mj and others who say there is loads of work where they are, and my employer can offer me weekend work, but little in the week. I really wanted mid-week flying, so does anyone know whether there is much in the Dorset/Wiltshire/Southern Hampshire area?

I need airborne time, or I will become unemployable, but don't want to leave my current employers, who are great to work with.

[Loony_Pilot]

Sorry covec.. but I have to disagree.

There are FI jobs out there, especially as the summer season is more or less upon us...

I finished my FI course in mid feb.. got my licence back from the CAA in mid March and have been offered 4 FI jobs (3 full time, 1 part time) since then.. I am now instructing full time and just getting enough students to be fairly busy (50+ hrs a month and steadily increasing).

Word of mouth, recommendations and the like work wonders but otherwise try calling, visiting etc etc.

Flying schools will want someone that is committed, enthusiastic and who will fit in well with the other staff.

Good luck

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

It is a fact there there are more instructors chasing fewer jobs this year than in the last 5 at least.

Anecdotal point - there have been no FI vacancies advertised in Pilot/Flyer/Flight this year whereas last year there were at least half a dozen.

I know of plenty of people with ratings and experience unable to find full time summer FI work.

Many are scratching around with a few hours in the week and a bit of weekend checkout and trial flight work.

In 1999 I was doing 100hrs a month, 9 - 5 Mon - Fri, with an incentive scheme to fly above that, the Boss was struggling to find enough new instructors and half way through the summer we demanded a pay rise.

There is merit in completing a FI rating at the moment. But not much. It could take a long time to repay the £5,500.

WWW

[mad_jock]

Just go for it i have been offered 2 jobs since i started this one.

The trick is to be completely mobile and be willing to relocate to next to the school.

Logbooks etc have been dispatched after 5 weeks to get restriction removed.

From what i can tell the CFI's are looking for restricted instructors fresh outa school so they don't have to put up with "well we used to do it this way where i last worked"



MJ

[SON OF SATAN]

Why were you a jammy git? how did you get your first job and where are the others that you turned down?

[mad_jock]

Well i think i am a jammy git because it was the third school i phoned on a huge list. I hadn't even finished the FI course.

And the job has turned out to be great, tons of flying and great people to work with ( this includes the local twr, refuelers and students). Planes in good knick, no hassels running known defects etc, everything works.

And as for who they are, i can't think of a faster way of not being called again, than opening the flood gates of all unemployed FI's in the country ringing because they heard there was a job going.


MJ

[SON OF SATAN]

So did you cold call on your current employer or did you know someone there or did you get the tip off from someone in the know?
I'm interested cos i'm trying to suss out how things work in the instucting world as i'm hoping to break into it in the future.

[G-LOST]

Mad Jock

Since you are so happily employed it seems a shame that you do not possess the team spirit to allow other FIs a chance at these many offers you are fortunate enough to have received. Remember, aviation is a small world. Far from happening upon your lucky break by pure chance, you got a push in the right direction by someone in the 'know'. So give back a little in the same spirit.

LOST

[FLYHIRE]

Mad jock

I am totally disgusted with you attitude, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You have a job and knowledge of two others that you don't require.why won't you pass on the info?
you are a disgrace to our profession, we are all in this together during these hard times and i would hope that info that was surplus to requirements would be passed on to help those that were unemployed and clearly struggling.If it was your only job offer and you needed it i would not blame you for keeping it to yourself but this is clearly not.


Newly qualified are you?frightened of others getting ahead?got a confidence defect?
I'm alright jack attitudes like this tend to get found out along the way and you will meet people (mad jock) on your way down as those that you think you are above are on the way up.

Remember that what goes around comes around.

Good luck to you and you self centred attitude.

[STATLER]

Mad Jock

If you are who I think you are it was I who gave you the tip off about your current employment.
I am more than a little disapointed that you have not continued the good spirit and passed on you own employment information to those that are looking for that illusive job.
What would of happened if I had kept the info to myself?
Would you be working as near as you are to home?
Doing as well as you are?
If it wasn't for the tip would you be employed now in the nice location as near to home as you are?
I think not.

One good turn deserves another come on spill the beans to the others on here that it may be of use too.

[mad_jock]

I agree spill the beans on a one to one (And i have done to others). But to the whole of the www? thats my concern.

And as the jobs were 3 weeks ago now and i think they are stale prostpects now.

MJ

[clear prop!!!]

Nice one Mad-Jock!!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[laurie]

Handbags at Dawn? Ouch!

I think a good chinese burn would sort Mad_Jock out :D

Regards,


Laurie.

[DeltaT]

WWW how did your employer get around the 100hrs/month flight time limitation when you were instructing?
I can't get mine to budge!

[jarjam]

Nice one MAD JOCK,

I to did my FIC in NOV/DEC I was offered part time work by the chap who did my FIC. I needed a bit more than part time so I took A drive out to a couple of airports with some C.V's and shook hands with a few people, Since then I have started work at one of the schools at a busy U.K. airport and have flown 250hrs in the 3 months that i've worked there!

Yes there are jobs all be it tricky to find, they seldom get advertised, so you have to put yourself around and make yourself known.
Dont just send a C.V, get of your arse have a shave, clean your finger nails and go and meet some people. As w.w.w stated on a Wannabees thread nobody owes you anything its up to you to find the work.

Also can I just say it suprised me so many green eyed folk are posting replys having a dig at JOCK, the blokes done well so SHUT YA MOUTHS.

[G-LOST]

Hardly green eyed since I was there to help teach him a tiny bit of what he knows, but concerned about the 'me first' attitude.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Sept 11 happened. After the dust settled lots of fATPL's looked at the new world. They thought about FI ratings. A few months passed. Many many people started FI ratings. These people have only started hitting the job market since about April/May.

For those qualified earlier jobs were about.

Now I reckon there are upwards of 10 instructors chasing every position.

I know people laid off from OATS recently who cannot find any regular work that will pay the bills...

What happens come the Autumn is anyones guess.

Being an FII is the business to be in lately..!

WWW

[mad_jock]

It's got sod all to do with a "me first attitude".

Why should I care if others get jobs i have heard about.

It's got everything to do with naming companys who haven't given there permission in a public forum. Its fair enough passing on information which is already in the public domain ie advertised. But if the company wishes to headhunt instead of advertising there within there rights to get pissed off if the information is broadcast, thus opening themselves up to days of telephone calls etc.

I admit that i have an IT contracting background which does harden your attitudes in relation to information on jobs. But that also has given me an insight to the problems that can arise when information is given out without permission.

WWW and scroggs have repeatedly banged out the message that posters are responsable for what they post. I have made it my policy not to mention any company names on pprune unless it is to give a postive recommendation.

aka i presume G-LOST and the lads at Leeds Flying School who did a sterling job getting me through the cpl/ir etc.

There is a big difference between sending someone an email after they post "does anyone know of any FI jobs going?"
And posting hey everyone xxxx flying school phoned me today and are looking for instructors.

MJ

[Flyingspaniard]

MJ, I have to agree with you... stick to your guns.

I qualified for my FI in September, shortly after 911. I knew that work was not going to happen straight away, so after a month I got back to my old job.

I went to my local airfield about every 2 weeks to see about instructing and other pilot work, not to mention making the rounds at all the schools around the M25 and the South East that I know to be busy.

Finally in February time I visited my local airfield and one of the clubs required someone to answer the phones and move aircraft around on a weekend. A good oportunity to get in there I thought and within 3 weeks they had me doing trial flights and soon after I got my first full time student. Now four months later I am flying every weekend and putting in about 4 to 6 hrs each time.

As far as I'm concerned this is the best way it could have turned out. My full time instructor colleagues are demoralised, fed up with not having any money and having to sit on the ground for long periods during the week. I on the other hand get the best of both worlds, a half decent salary during the week as an IT contractor and get to stay current at the same time.

I don't think there is any hurry to build hours as I reckon the industry won't pick up for some time. In the mean time I will keep plugging away at those mailing lists and phoning up the contacts I've been making since June last year and eventually I will get somewhere. My IT job is OK and I'm enjoying being a normal young person at last (spent most of my after school years saving money and my 18months of fATPL/IR being a hermit studying) I have to say I don't share everyone elses depression about the way things are because there ain't no way that I can change it! You just got to keep flying going on the back burner and get on with having a good time.

That's my 2 pence and now I'm ready to be shot down.

[FormationFlyer]

Mad_jock - Congrats m8. On the subject of tip-offs - I personally would reserve them for those I knew and respected who were looking for such jobs - I too would not be announcing them on the net. I find it incredible that people are having a go at you about this even...for god sake - those who are looking for jobs....please put as much effort into looking for jobs as you are whining. Im looking for an FO seat this autumn...but its down to hard work & contacts....unfortunately guys my part time instructing jobs wont be up for grabs then!!! I love this game too much to let my FI rating go to waste!!!

Flyingspaniard - indeed - same boat as you - IT market isnt much better than aviation at the mo though! And more to the point - instructing is *really* rewarding. Contacts and persistence are certainly the watch-words.

FF

[juggernaut]

I was interested to read the posts about some guys binning the FIC course half way through due to lack of work prospects, I am sure they are aware the training must be completed within one year so it could be money down the drain, one thing is for sure, if you do not have the rating then you will not get a job. I firmly believe now is a good time to train as there are so many qualified instructors with ATPL IR's waiting for a job in the airlines and as soon as things pick up again (as they always do) then there are few people in the system, it takes at least a year to do a CPL FIC and the ads will reappear soon, we've seen it all before, my flight school has eleven FI's with ATPL/IR and over 1000 hours!

[bctair]

Any one looking for part time instructing work please drop us an e mail, we are desperate!!!!!!

[FormationFlyer]

Damn. Just met a guy this am at CAA HQ asking me about this very thing....He wanted stuff in the oxford area - Kemble would have been great for him...damnit....if only I had remembered his name better!

[nonradio]

It's not about the 'return' on your investment in the shape of £ - if you haven't got a ticket you can't instruct, therefore you HAVE to go and get one, and then you will clearly be best placed to take advantage of any opportunities that come your way. It's only money and even if financially it doesn't pay off immediately, nobody can repossess your licence and ratings!!! Just do it!! I never let the thought of the money being spent affect the goal (I have wangled both FI(A) and FI(H), so it can be done!) Do it now, while you really have nothing to lose and certainly you'll have no regrets later.....