Follow My Dream.. Or Not?

[AndyJay123]

I've just turned 22, living in the UK and working in a supermarket for the rest of my life is not what I wish to do. For years now I have had a huge passion for flying, I flew for my first time last year in an A321 and could do it every day if I had the chance. I've been playing Flight Simulators on my PC for close to 7-8 years now.

My dream is to be an airline pilot. I've looked into it before but haven't followed up, now I want to get my life on track and I want to do it more than ever..

But I have a few confidence issues with myself which is the only thing setting me back right now.

I have a slight speech problem where I sometimes find it hard to get certain words out (such as Quebec) or saying long phrases without running out of breath. Once I get the words flowing however then I am usually fine. It also seems to be when I am thinking about what to say I struggle, where as if it's more of a passive sentence I'll be fine? This is the biggest thing currently putting me off, as I've heard how most pilots and ATC speak (quickly and professionally). I don't know if there are any FAA rules, airline requirements or anything regarding speech?

I'm extremely tempted to book my first flying lesson but I don't know what to do. I welcome the views of people on this website both professional and not. Maybe I should ring the flight school and have a chat with them on the phone? I don't know..


Anyway, thank you and I hope the replies I receive gives me the hope I need to get started. :)

[Boxingferret]

Hi Andy, I say go for it book a few lessons and just see how you get on. If you never try you'll never know and it will be fun either way anyway

[DaveyJay85]

Do it! Book your first lesson and see what it's like.


I'm about 9 hours into my PPL and also have a very slight speech impediment which I thought would be a problem. As it turns out, it isn't. Like with anything in life, you find a way to get around things like that. I found a big breath before I speak on the radio works a treat.


Doing the ATPL is a long term thing (and also expensive) so it might be worth, before you start stumping up £0,000's , to do it over a period of time. Start with the PPL and work it out from there.


You'll do it - You'll love it - Your bank manager won't!!

[thing]

You won't have to talk to ATC on your first lesson or trial flight. The instructor will do all that for you. Go for it, you never know unless you try. Be aware that gaining an ATPL is very expensive and jobs aren't easy to come by once you have it.

I flew gliders for years before I went onto powered and never spoke to anyone on the radio. I found converting to powered flying no problem at all apart from the comms. I well remember on my first trip listening to ATC (I fly from a full ATC field) and thinking that there was no way I wouild be able to understand all of that gibberish. But like everything else one day it clicks and you have no problem with it from then on.

[Baikonour]

Agree with all the above. Go for a trial lesson and see what you make of it.

Regarding speech, you will probably find it easier than you think, exactly because there are 'rules and regulations' for what you say and when you say it, once you know those, you'll be expecting to hear certain things and able to hear them, as well as ready to say a couple of things when they need to be said.

If confidence is an issue for you, unlike a social setting, where there is pressure to think on your feet, saying things on the hoof and following the conversation as it drifts around, talking on the radio is far easier with a lot less pressure on you.

On a related note, learning to fly will be a real confidence booster. You'll be doing something which to outsiders appears difficult and unusual. Only you will know how easy it really is :ok:

And it's a lot of fun to boot :)

B.

[thing]

you'll be expecting to hear certain things and able to hear themExactly that. Once I realised it wasn't just random conversation I was fine. It's all in a set order, you just have to learn the order which isn't a big deal; you also expect to be spoken to in a certain order so that clearance that wasn't so clear becomes clearer because you are expecting to hear a certain thing. If you pick up most of the words you are fine, your brain fills in the rest.

eg 'Golf Alpha Br.vo cl... cros. ..ntolle.. a..spa.e not ab... 3,000 fe..'

Becomes 'Golf Alpha Bravo clear to cross controlled airspace not above 3,000 feet.' Because that's what you are expecting.

[PURPLE PITOT]

Never mind the dream, concentrate on the reality. If you have never been in a light aircraft, go take a trial lesson. Make it an hour to be sure.

If you want to go further, before you do anything else, go and get a class one medical. If you can't pass that, the "dream" ends right there.

If you pass that, come back here and we can discuss the madness of spending £100k on a licence when there are so few jobs.

[AndyJay123]

Mm thank you guys, still looking forward to reading a few more responses. In regards to money how much is a ppl roughly?

I think I will definitely go for the trial lesson..

[thing]

In regards to money how much is a ppl roughly?
Depends how many hours it takes you to do it. I've no idea how much lessons are down your neck of the woods but at a civvy school up here (Yorks/Lincs that sort of area)they are about 130-140 an hour chock to chock. You have to do a minimum of 45 hours, plus factor in another grand or so for exams and fees etc, and there's no saying you will do it in 45 hours (which doesn't mean you are in some way an inferior pilot) so say 60 hours at 140 plus a grand you are looking at the thick end of 10K. You only need a class 2 med for normal PPL flying, however if your dream is to go the full monty then you need the class 1.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Factor in £120k for zero to ATPL. Does it make sense? The job isn't what it was, either. Nor the pay. And that's a trend that won't get any better from the pilot's point of view.

If you can afford the PPL go for that. It'll be fun, a confidence booster, and by the end of it you'll have a pretty good idea of what this flying game's about, and whether a commercial pilot career is for you.

If it looks like it still is after you've done the PPL, and you can find the money.... go for it! But that PPL is the start point and well worth doing in itself before you set any commercial ambitions.

[AndyJay123]

Hmm money is the factor then I guess and probably what put me off last time. I've had a quick look at a few airlines that do apprenticeships but there doesn't seem to be any? I guess these are even harder to get hold of these days..

[skyhighfallguy]

look kid. there are lots of things that appeal to us. so first you will have to figure out how to make lots of money.

but that is the cool part of the job, so just find a neat job that you don't hate and save money.

I put a huge amount of effort into the money making part to pay for flying. Looking back I would have more money now just by doing the other things.

Get a medical first, take a few lessons and look at the money you spent. Are you ready to give up dating, a new car, nice clothes for the next 10 years? IF yes, maybe you have a chance. maybe.

[Bullethead]

Go for it Andy! Follow your dream, you'll regret it if you don't. Speech therapy, if you need it is effective. There was a fellow on my Airforce pilot's course who had a stammer and he overcame it and had a long career flying Hercules transports.

Cheers and good luck,
BH.

[foxmoth]

Hmm money is the factor then I guess and probably what put me off last time.

If that is what is putting you off then I would say you do not have the desire needed - that was my situation many years ago and it was a case of finding a way - I ended up working thirteen hour days five days a week and 8 hours Sat/Sunday, the biggest problem then was finding time to go flying! Many i fly with in the airlines started with very little and found ways round the money side of things.

[shaun ryder]

eg 'Golf Alpha Br.vo cl... cros. ..ntolle.. a..spa.e not ab... 3,000 fe..'

Becomes 'Golf Alpha Bravo clear to cross controlled airspace not above 3,000 feet.' Because that's what you are expecting.

Sounds like confirmation bias to me.

[davydine]

Andy,

As others have said, just go for it. Until you try taking control of an aircraft for yourself you will never know.

If you have any concerns about your health then I would suggest that you get your medical first then you will know what is possible before you spend lots of money.

Even if you can't fly for a job you may almost certainly be able to fly for the sheer joy of flying. As an example, when I was in my teens I discovered I could not get a class 1 medical due to being short sighted, but at University I learned to fly gliders and spent many happy and inexpensive hours pottering about in a glider. Ironically, I believe that under the new EASA rules I could now get a class 1 medical but at 42 it is probably a bit too old to think of a career in aviation, but at some point, I would like to take up gliding again or possibly learn to fly either light aircraft or 3 axis microlights.

Try it whilst you are young enough, you will regret it if you don't...

[AndyJay123]

Well I think I'll definitely go for a trial lesson and see how I think of it from there on. I'll probably have to wait until the end of march though.

It's a shame it's so expensive, but even if I just go for my ppl then that'll be more than good enough. Might just take me some time with the money situation but it'll be worth it!

It would be amazing to fly around the UK especially over the lake district and Wales etc :)

Once again thank you guys for the little extra push!

[dagowly]

Andy,

Confidence is the key with anything like this. It takes aptitude, situational awareness and lots of concentration. However, no one will expect you to have all of that the first time you step into an aircraft.

RT (Radio Telephony) does get a little getting used to. I've been an air traffic controller for 7 years and recently completed my PPL, it did give me a massive advantage as all the 'lingo' came naturally. But i remember the first time at the school when I was given CAP413 and my head almost exploded. The key? Practice. Which is what you will get as you progress on your PPL and your instructor explains it all to you, eventually you'll find it coming naturally and you'll think back to this topic when you thought you'd have issues.

As the other lads have said, go for it! And go and enjoy a trial lesson. Also shop around for prices on your PPL and never pay all as a package upfront!

Best of luck with it :ok:

[150 Driver]

Follow the dream whilst young, you're dead long enough at the end.

As for the speech issue, it never fails to amaze me how bad otherwise unimpeded people are on the radio. I don't know what your problem is, how bad, nor indeed am I an expert but I wouldn't mind betting with some work, planning and foresight you could beat what you often hear. Don't assume that everyone else is perfect.

Those of us that shouldn't be affected by speech impediments just don't concentrate on RT enough IMHO, how often do we get affected by stammers/stutters/ums and ahs simply but not thinking what we meant to say before pressing the RT button. With your issue I reckon you'd concentrate on this a load more.

True story, flying around a rural part of the UK last summer some guy in a 'Poiper' spent the whole of one of my 15 minute legs constantly talking to 'AyTeeeeSea' about his 'floight'. No kidding I heard 'Cud yew say that agin please, Oi dint quoit cetch it' said six times in response to 'G-ABCD confirm you are remaining clear of parachute drop zone'. Constant requests to check his altitude - from him to ATC - were heard and position reports every minute- no-one else in the air could get a word in edgeways !:ugh:

If, at the end of the day you can't fulfil the airline pilot dream, at least having a PPL - or even having had a few lessons towards it - will stop you thinking 'if only' when sitting in the nursing home 60 years from now.

Good luck in whatever you choose.

[Lagentium]

I have been through this situation in my head many times, wishing to turn the clock back to a time where I was 20 or 21 and have a go at obtaining my PPL and moving on to CPL etc, sadly I stopped at PPL stage as I received my license slightly into my 30s and didn't feel it would be possible to actually get a job even if I managed to get the relevant licenses.
Have a trial flight, it may not be for you after that you may find, but bear in mind flying commercially is a world away from flying your average club trainer etc. But you may take to it like a duck to water and it may come naturally, if it is a dream of yours then I hope it does so. Get your head down at work and earn some decent money and make it possible, while you have youth on your side you can do it, don't make the mistake I made and leave it too late to realise what you'd like to do in life. Also if your going to take the plunge get your Class 1 medical early on as it would be a waste of time and money and emotional investment if you were to progress but not get there because of a medical issue.

Good luck, Jim:ok:

[foxmoth]

Lagentium,
Why stop? There are many Commercial pilots who did not start until well past your age, look at AndyR - see him more on the Flyer forum than here, over thirty IIRC when he got his licence but now flying commercially on light twins and thoroughly enjoying it! Many of the pilots I fly with on the Airbus did not get going until then either.:ok:

[A and C]

Job security and pay are not what they were thirty years ago, I have lost four jobs over the years as airlines went bust owing me thousands of pounds.

The T&C are being squeezed with more work expected from you and less in the way of remuneration and this when you are now expected to pay for all your training.

The bottom line is that in terms of money invested vs return airline flying is no longer a risk I would put my family through, I have enjoyed the job over the years but would not do the same if I was starting now.

My advice would be to train for a profession that is in demand to get the money to fly for fun, if more young people did this perhaps in another ten years the bean counters would find that due to them making considerable Proffit from over selling the front right hand seat they have no pilots to fly the aircraft.

In short flying is no longer worth the time and risk.

[cutter9512]

In regards to your impediment. Unless you require speech therapy for everyday life, i.e. severe, you will have no troubles. I say this in agreement with previous posts of the well circumscribed comm that is expected and happens in aviation at all levels. From personal experience I can tell you that the worst speech impediment is light years more understandable and appreciated than the horrible english evident at various flight schools with ltd english speaking skills from students and others from non english speaking environments. Pursue your passion. As others have said, either work extremely hard and make large sacrifices for a professional career in aviation, or alternatively make enough money at a job that allows you to pursue the aviation passion at some level. All the best

[thing]

Sounds like confirmation bias to me. Yup, I dare say what we all use when we fly. If I had to say (and I'm guessing everyone on here) 'Say again last' if every single syllable wasn't cristal clear then the airwaves would be jammed solid. Bearing in mind of course that all ATC instructions are read back by you, so they get to check that you have it right.

[AndyJay123]

Well as much as I would love to be an airline pilot I doubt I'll get there. I will definitely get saving up though and aim towards my PPL if I enjoy the trial flight. Maybe it'll happen in the end but we'll see.

It would be just as amazing to rent a plane maybe each weekend and just fly around haha :) Always dreamt of being a pilot. If that doesn't happen then maybe I could go second best and see if I can grab a job at an airport?

[thing]

It would be just as amazing to rent a plane maybe each weekend and just fly around haha

It is.

If you want to do it badly enough you will find/earn the money. You don't have to be wealthy to fly on a PPL, I'm certainly not.

[alland2012]

My buddy in Florida has just got his first airline job at 50 yrs.old, flying regional jets around the US, currently right seat as first officer while he builds hours to eventually move across to the Captains seat.

He only began flying 8yrs ago, first he got his PPL, then went on to gain other tickets including his CFI ticket spent the last 6yrs teaching students to fly but always wanted to fly commercial stuff, kepy firing off applications until he got accepted by Delta to go into their training programme. 12 weeks of intensive training in the classroom and in the Sim. and he has his wings. Okay he could probably earn more money doing something else but he's not bothered, he gets by and is living the dream...

So never say never

PS. I got my FAA PPL at 63yrs. young !

[Martin_123]

Andy, do you have a 3rd level degree? Its not too late to start college/uni, get some decent education in engineering or something that you're interested in besides flying. You're right, you don't want to be working in supermarket forever and decent education/career (and thus income) can seriously make your life much easier (in terms of earning your wings). Learn languages! Knowledge is something that feeds and protects you

in regards to original question - medical requirement JAR-FCL 3.350 (6) says that to be admitted unfit, one has to have Significant disorder of speech or voice. Stuttering is considered to be a significant disorder in aviation, but do you really have it? Do you think your problems get worse when you're tired, anxious or angry?

[cockney steve]

Andy.....Like some other posters, I let life and family sidetrack me.
I am NOT a pilot . The cost of getting there is considerable.....while i dither, I also look at the options......in your case......
Don't bother about the speech....when you get to your trial flight, you'll note the intercom will chop the first little bit anyway, (voice-switched)...so, an "erm" or "uh" opens the microphone and the whole sentence is then heard....I found it irritating when the pilot was pointing out stuff...."Ver there....ts barton bridge......Olton on your right......."
or..."Rm Over there....rm..That's barton bridge....rm Bolton on your right...."
Trust me, the odd stutter or brain-fart is a minor detail.

As cash is an issue, first-off, get a proper log-book or even an ordinary note-book will suffice....have a trawl through the various forums and you'll see it's simple to record in columns , the required info.
A trial LESSON counts towards your time, IF YOU LOG IT AND GET IT SIGNED BY THE INSTRUCTOR (saves £100, have a beer!)
Consider going for Microlight....a 3-axis "proper " aeroplane can fall into this category...BUT It will not give you a PPL on a commercial career -path..... so, blow a couple of hundred going for a Class 1 aero-medical. If you pass, start your PPL....if you fail....start your PPL, but , consider the short, quicker, cheaper, non-commercial Microlight -route (I suppose you could always progress to being a Microlight instructor! )
You need a LOT of money to become an Airline pilot and it is NOT like bimbling around in a light aircraft.
If you enjoy your trial lesson....or even a few lessons, get your class 1 out of the way, BEFORE you make any decision about type of licence and type of training. depending on that, you'll know wether to pursue an Aviation career or an expensive hobby.

Flying....cheapest, probably paragliding...then parascending? (same thing but a motor and fan on your back)....then gliding /hang-gliding.

you then move up to the Flexwing microlight 3-axis microlight, Single engine Piston( IIRC, a "simple" fixed-gear, fixed-pitch prop, is Group"A" ) which would be a PPL in all probability (there are so many licence variations and the situation is fluid at the moment! )



Now, let's assume you have a Class 1 medical, a couple of lessons and definitely want to become a commercial pilot.
Another money saver..... not without it's difficulties, but...
Older, "Orphan" aircraft which have no manufacturer to support them, or HOMEBUILT aircraft are on a Permit to Fly....you cannot rent them or hire them out, BUT you can buy one, get an instructor to teach you on your own aircraft and get your PPL.... there are hoops to jump through, the hardest probably being to find a registered training organisation that is willing to "supervise" this route.
"Flyer Forum" and the Light Aircraft Association are good starting points.
do it!...fancy car, wife, kids, mortgage can all come later. :ok:

[b.a. Baracus]

Why not put in an application to the BA FPP. The application window closes on Monday I believe.

[AndyJay123]

It needs £84,000 security deposit. No chance I can get that :( Ah well I'll still aim at my PPL, need to get the trial flight done first but I think I'll wait for the summer :)