Differential training

[Fux911]

Hey guys,

I was searching through the EASA rules a long time. I cannot find anything about logging time without differential training.

My question:

Is it ok to log the flown time as a copilot WITHOUT a differential training ?

e.g. I have a typerating on AS365 and it is being entered in your license as followed: Typerating AS365/EC155

So may I log the time on EC155 ?

Thank you!

[Jet Ranger]

No, you need 1h with TRI, and to sign you a logbook (as D.T.)

JR

[Fux911]

Hm ok. Thanks!

[Hyds Out]

It might be more training than you actually think, or hope it will be.
Whilst they have combined the 365 and 155 into the Dauphin family with regard to the actual type rating, the differences training required is basically the same, if not more, than that required for an initial type rating!

Have a look at the OEB from EASA:

http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/EASA-OEB-Final-Report-Eurocopter_AS365_EC_155%20B--B1-02-08022012.pdf

It is quite a long document, but the tables towards the bottom of it show the suggested training between the different 365 variants and the 155.
From a 365 N2, they suggest 30hrs ground school, plus the ground exam, followed by 3hrs VFR, and appropriate hours for IFR. Then the PC. So a type rating course!!
Good luck.

So back to the question; you cannot log time as you are not rated on that variant. So are not operating crew.

[212man]

I think this reflects the fact that originally they were classed as different types. The concept of differences training is quite valid when looking at moving from an S76A to an S76A+ - for instance - but becomes questionable in the case quoted.

The requirement is stated in Part FCL.710 and the UK CAA guidance (in CAP804) states this:
FCL.710 Type ratings – variants
(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of helicopter within type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.
(b) If the variant has not been flown within a period of 2 years following the differences training, further differences training or a proficiency check in that variant shall be required to maintain the privileges.
(c) The differences training shall be entered in the pilot’s

NOTE: There is no time stipulated, contrary to JR's comments....

[staticsource]

But it does state in AMC2 FCL.725(a)(d) difference training of 1hr.

Cheers

[Jet Ranger]

I'm note sure, but if I remember correctly, diff. trng between B212 and 412 is only 1h of flight time...Can't say about the AS365 family...

JR

[212man]

ut it does state in AMC2 FCL.725(a)(d) difference training of 1hr.

Ah, yes I see that now, but they are then contradicting themselves by saying that the training should conform to that recommended in the OSD (OEB as was)....

[misterbonkers]

It's all in that document pointed out by Hyds Out. Potentially a lot more than 1hr.

[RVDT]

And the taxonomy with respect to "variant".

There are no "variants" in the TCDS for these aircraft just different "models". :rolleyes:

[staticsource]

Agreed, I think more EASA OEB reports will be produced which may move the goal posts for initial TR too.

I suppose the above will have to be taken into account along with the minimum requirements set out in Part-FCL to end up with a course laid out in the ATO which is acceptable to relevant CAA.

I presume difference training must be an approved ATO course?

One last thing, does "should" = must? Or is it highly frowned upon if you don't? :suspect:

[Jet Ranger]

@ss... only "Shell" = must


I presume difference training must be an approved ATO course?


No. Only for the initial TR. For diff. trng TRI/TRE only is enough (and his sign in your logbook). I think.

:ok:

JR

[Pete O'Tewbe]

To amplify what Jet Ranger said:

FCL.710 Class and type ratings — variants

(a) In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training. In the case of variants within a type rating, the differences or familiarisation training shall include the relevant elements defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.

Compare and contrast with a similar statement with regard to, say, class or type ratings:

FCL.725 Requirements for the issue of class and type ratings

(a) Training course. An applicant for a class or type rating shall complete a training course at an ATO. The type rating training course shall include the mandatory training elements for the relevant type as defined in the operational suitability data established in accordance with Part-21.

Notice the difference?

[Jet Ranger]

P.O'T ... thanks

:ok: JR

[staticsource]

Pete O'T & JR, thanks for that! :ok:

[ec225pilot]

Hello, sorry to wake up this old post,
Does anybody now what kind of difference training I need to get from my H155 rating to a AS365 rating?