New Royal Navy combat number 4 uniform.

[Hangarshuffle]

A few pictures and a bit of a story about it in the Daily Mail here.Mouldy new Royal Navy uniforms arrive 'unwearable' | Daily Mail Online (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-2914385/Mouldy-new-Royal-Navy-uniforms-arrive-unwearable.html)


The caps were mouldy upon delivery, cue outrage in the Mail.
We had this kind of stuff, or similar in about 2003 but it was pulled almost immediately because some one said it didn't look that smart. As I recall.


To me, it looks a bit too Hong Kong. Why do we always now try to style or resemble the Americans>? Naval uniform seems to always baffle the Board of the Admiralty.
In the picture in the Mail, the wren subby looks really sad and miserable, and the Lieutenant has a bit of gut he'd be wise to get rid of. Maybe its the new uniform?

[barnstormer1968]

I think the new uniform shows a smart procurement purchase and will safeguard navy personnel in the long term.







As long as a lot of service personnel are still becoming homeless tramps after service.....they will fit right in with those scabby uniforms :)

[MPN11]

I can only assume that the RN, well known for their smart uniform, have an equivalent of the RAF's Assistant Director of Clothing Requirements and Procurement ... ADCRAP(RAF), which sums up the output of his Assistant Directorate in my time, with the ever-creased polyester lightweight trousers and the endless vomiting of a new design of Wooly-Pully.

Dear God, don't HM Forces has some bigger issues to f-about with? Like aircraft, and carriers, and a balanced force structure? Thank God I'm long gone. :mad:

[CoffmanStarter]

What was wrong with the old RN 'combat' uniform :}

http://nevis1.com/lord-horatio-nelson-museum-nevis-02.jpg

Yes ... Hat, Coat etc ...

[kkbuk]

They look like a shower od scran bags! What would a Gunnery Instructor make of it all I wonder, perhaps expire due to a fit of apoplexy. I did see the last effort in modernisation, the man's rate badges were resting somewhere around the middle of his shoulder blades and the material the shirt was made from would have been better employed swabbing the decks!

[Lima Juliet]

No, this is the new uniform for the boys/girls in dark blue...

http://sharetv.com/images/guide/272682.jpg

...apparently it comes with a free Iranian iPod. :E

LJ

[Could be the last?]

If the Senior Service is moving to 'baseball caps' I wonder how long it is before the Army and then the RAF follow?

[MG]

What's the problem? The RN have used baseball caps at sea, informally, for years. They're practical. This uniform is probably also practical and will be a step ahead of what it replaces, I would guess. It's nothing at all like the USN rig, which is a bit silly in its over-coloured blueness, even if there are good reasons for that.

Pprune - the flyers' DM!

[Finnpog]

Subtle chuckle - but with the Ship's crest as a badge on the right sleeve looking a bit like a squadron or type patch, they kind of look like a two piece flight suit - albeit in a deep blue as opposed to the fetching shades of green or sand.

At least it is not camouflaged like some other militaries have chosen.

[Mr C Hinecap]

The shirts shown look like a blue version of the current combats. Same pockets, same rank, no need for the camouflage so they have remained dark blue as they always have. Seems sensible for life afloat.

[NutLoose]

I thought the uniforms were cotton to stop them welding to the skin in a flash fire, I wonder if the nylon Velcro will weld itself shut or simply drop off

[Naffenea]

Velcro instead of buttons is a bad idea.

[orca]

I wonder if The Daily Mail could actually produce one of the traditionalists to explain their horror? I wonder what their views on radar and guided weaponry are?

Also, if the deal really is worth £250,000 then I think clothing (and capping) the RN at less than £10 a head seems like quite the deal to me.

[Wander00]

Amazing what you can get from TK Max!

[Hangarshuffle]

Someone on another forum had posted that uniformed armed people the world over are increasingly beginning to look the same = this uniform could be tweaked to look like until recently the USN uniform (submariners?), Chinese navy, latest British police dressed for "anti terror", US SWAT team and so on. And that may be on to a valid point.


I think this stuff is just about probably an improvement on the uniform from the past in a practical sense..
In my time I would have liked to have seen:
A slip on, heavy duty boot with thick sole and steel cap. Possibly like a rigger boot.
A proper Winter coat with a big hood, made to keep you warm instead of the crap thin plastic anoraks we had.
A thicker warmer pullover.
A strong practical smock.
A fleece. Some long sleeved tops, casual (bit like a noggy top of old).
Proper blue strong combat trousers with bigger deeper securable thigh pockets for keeping anything from the duty SPO keys to an SA80 magazine to a small radio.
Think they should have brought out a suitable soft cap rather than a baseball cap.
All this based on my own hard luck experience.
Hope these items are now in for the current lads and lasses, but I doubt it. It seems too hard to grasp.

[ShotOne]

I'll agree with all of that HS, although arguably protective footwear is outwith a discussion on uniform. Going back to my own service in the 80's, foul weather clothing was very poor indeed; who attempts to keep dry with a poncho for heavens sake??..and I'm given to understand there's still much room for improvement.

[Whenurhappy]

Someone on another forum had posted that uniformed armed people the world over are increasingly beginning to look the same = this uniform could be tweaked to look like until recently the USN uniform (submariners?), Chinese navy, latest British police dressed for "anti terror", US SWAT team and so on. And that may be on to a valid point.

Naval uniforms - globally - look pretty much the same. Double-breasted tunics, gold braid on the sleeves, and white hats for officers; Jean-Paul Gaultier creation for the Ratings (see post above). I'm reminded of the story of an RN officer captured at Dunkirk in full rig who managed to escape during transport and travelled right across Germany to Luebeck, where he stole a fishing boat and got across to Sweden. He stayed in his uniform all the time and no one noticed that he wasn't Kriegsmarine. Speaking German probably helped!

[Hangarshuffle]

I meant to say the pockets on the trousers and overalls should be just big enough to keep a copy of the fantastically handily sized incredibly liberal European SCUD magazine "Color Climax" within, if it ever returns. Was much treasured magazine booty back in the eighties and missed by me and others in this internet age.

[P6 Driver]

If only the MOD would see sense and consult some of the "wise ones" of this web site BEFORE changing anything. Will they never learn?

[chopper2004]

Yep, have seen news and documentaries with say a Type 22 or 23 frigate skipper and officers and sailors wear baseball caps......with the ships name on it and as MG says unofficially for years

@21:59, whats 'Wings' or Flyco got on his head in 1960 lol :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsE9oCdSEEI&list=PL4EA37D3E89608F68

and @07:29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFzRtOuj5GQ

cheers

[Union Jack]

Looks like Little F (in both cases) is wearing..... shock horror!:eek: ..... a baseball cap.

Incidentally, it should be recalled that any uniform changes such as those at issue have to be approved personally by HM The Queen.

Jack

[Davef68]

Velcro instead of buttons is a bad idea.

I am imagining one of HM's big booming submarines running silent when the Capt decides to take something out his pocket...

[thing]

I thought the uniforms were cotton to stop them welding to the skin in a flash fire

Nutty, cotton ain't much good in a fire either. If you don't do nomex then the best stuff is wool.

[NutLoose]

Damn sight better better than nylon though.

[SirToppamHat]

Silent Velcro?

The Military Has Silent Velcro! (http://videosift.com/video/The-Military-Has-Silent-Velcro)
See here (http://videosift.com/video/The-Military-Has-Silent-Velcro)

I believe there are other versions.

I must get out much more.

STH

[thing]

Damn sight better better than nylon though.

Indeed but you would be amazed at the amount of pilot clothing suppliers that sell 'Tornado/top gun/hot shots' bomber jackets in 'rip stop fashioned nylon.' Makes me seeth. No one should wear plastic as flight gear. Utter madness.

[NutLoose]

There is a way to get around the Velcro noise issue

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vSK3maq8Cyk

[bike2lv]

Not caps, but nylon vs 'good' aircrew flight gear. Original aircrew watch I was issued early 70's had a woven canvas strap. nice and safe. Watch went U/S about 2 years later, stores replacement aircrew watch had a nylon strap! with a leather section that threaded through the strap, so the metal watch and clasp didn't touch the skin, but most of the nylon strap did! HMG got the watch back when I left, but I still have the strap somewhere (I think).

[flynavysomerset]

I was part of the 7 month trial in 2012 on board HMS DARING. I have to say the new uniform is excellent both in the heat and humidity of the gulf and also the more temperate climate of the north atlantic.

The only velcro IIRC was to attach name badges and crests rather like the new PCS, which this new uniform closely resembles.

The baseball caps were only worn whilst at sea (RAS etc), not alongside when a traditional cap or beret was correctly deemed more appropriate.

Overall a vast improvement; practicable, versatile, comfortable and smart.

FNS

[Al R]

I think it looks ok - utilitarian, functional and comfortable. Let's face it, naval rig at sea has always looked unwieldy, how would bell bottoms, flares and nylon trousers have coped with the PPRuNe microscope of the 60s, 70s and 80s? My concern would be that it looks like it'll get tatty quickly (it doesn't look particularly rugged) and the baseball hats give the bean counters something to flog. But hey, how many Red Arrow flying suits for the fighter aces of tomorrow are there out there? All good fun.

[Roadster280]

I think this stuff is just about probably an improvement on the uniform from the past in a practical sense..
In my time I would have liked to have seen:
A slip on, heavy duty boot with thick sole and steel cap. Possibly like a rigger boot.
A proper Winter coat with a big hood, made to keep you warm instead of the crap thin plastic anoraks we had.
A thicker warmer pullover.
A strong practical smock.
A fleece. Some long sleeved tops, casual (bit like a noggy top of old).
Proper blue strong combat trousers with bigger deeper securable thigh pockets for keeping anything from the duty SPO keys to an SA80 magazine to a small radio.
Think they should have brought out a suitable soft cap rather than a baseball cap.
All this based on my own hard luck experience.
Hope these items are now in for the current lads and lasses, but I doubt it. It seems too hard to grasp.

CS95 (i.e. something that was issued 20 years ago) had a fleece. Very thick, long elastic cuffs. The outer shell jacket was ripstop, and reasonably windproof. With that on top and the fleece underneath, you would be very warm indeed. Can't speak for RAF V-neck pullovers, I never wore one; but the crew-neck Army version was plenty warm. You would overheat if you had your JHW on under the fleece. There was a very close-knit version of it issued for a while, but that was withdrawn and we went back to the old pattern. CS95 combat trousers had pretty good pockets, exactly as you say, keep magazines in there. Though I found them better for beer. You could get 2x cans in each thigh pocket. Two more in the vertically-zipped chest pockets in the smock and you're good to go.

Although lace-up, the combat assault boots that were issued with CS95 were also very comfortable, warm and had good grip. Berets were warm in their own right, but if things got really cold or dirty, there was always the headover cap; that was simple and effective.

The only problem with the fleece was you couldn't wear it as the outer layer as it was camouflaged and had no rank tabs. Thus the SSM would be heard screaming "No fooking teddy bears!"

There's always the arctic kit too if it's that cold. I got issued that gear for Bosnia in winter, and the "Deputy-Dawg" hat was so warm that you'd have to take it off within an hour. The parka was OK, in reality the CS95 layered approach was better. With thermal long john top & bottoms, CS95 pants and Norwegian shirt (issued with CS95), fleece, CS95 smock and Goretex waterproofs if required, there really was no issue in the -25C temps on Mount Igman.

I thought CS95 was very good, and certainly a vast improvement over the utter garbage that preceded it. The 68 pattern combat jacket was good until it got wet, but that's about it.

[Thelma Viaduct]

Don't see what's wrong with making them wear flares again combined with Velcro, I loved my 70's nights.

[Basil]

I think the baseball cap is thoroughly impractical.
If you want to look up at, e.g., an instrument, bareheaded or wearing a beret, a flick of the eyes will suffice. Wearing the street dude hat you have to tilt right back.
Bas, never wore headgear in ships engine rooms or transport aircraft.

[downsizer]

The MTP baseball caps were very de-regeur with the "special" Avn elements in KAF last year....:}

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

To look you have to wear them backwards or sideways. That a real cool dude! (So I am informed by the younger generation).


Aaron.

[BEagle]

Or 'kewl' in yoof-speak, Aaron.

Being now 'somdel stape in age*', driving one's teutonic tourer on sunny days either means acquiring sunglasses with corrective lenses (at £ lots), or using a 'baseball' cap with ordinary spectacles...

...which is OK provided no-one recognises me!




*for grammar school oiks, that's a Chaucerian phrase meaning 'an old fart'!

[NutLoose]

Get one of these Beags, held on by static

http://www.transair.co.uk/sp+Large-Slap-On-Sun-Visor+6880

[CoffmanStarter]

You were obviously wearing contacts that day then BEagle :}

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/30/article-1132350-033DBF63000005DC-686_468x442.jpg

:ok:

[Roadster280]

Or 'kewl' in yoof-speak, Aaron.

Being now 'somdel stape in age*', driving one's teutonic tourer on sunny days either means acquiring sunglasses with corrective lenses (at £ lots), or using a 'baseball' cap with ordinary spectacles...

...which is OK provided no-one recognises me!




*for grammar school oiks, that's a Chaucerian phrase meaning 'an old fart'!

Grammar school oik I may be, but at least I had the good sense to get an SL rather than the Kurz, and its consequently miniature windscreen. The sun visors worked quite well in the SL. In the R107 incarnation, the windscreen was so engineered as to be a fully functional rollover bar, and hence massive!

[NutLoose]

Blimey, a Kleines Kettenkrad

[Naffenea]

I'm thinking of how the Velcro stops sticking after a while and makes a lot of noise.

[P6 Driver]

I'm not sure the noise would be a serious factor in most RN situations unless the iPod needed to be switched off in a hurry when operating in a clandestine environment. They would probably wear a combat uniform for that I suppose. When the Velcro wears out, they would probably exchange the item at stores.

[teeteringhead]

*for grammar school oiks, that's a Chaucerian phrase meaning 'an old fart'! Oi BEagle! - us oiks done Chukker an' all yer know, and not jus' for the fart jokes (Miller's Tale refers!) ;)

Were one more incensed, one might be tempted to say:

I wolde I hadde thy coillons in myn hond .... lat cutte hem of ...... thay shul be shryned in an hogges tord.

[Pardoner's Tale, line 952 et seq, if one remembers correctly from one's oiky Grammar School. :ok:]

[ex_matelot]

RN uniform is a farce. The good ideas club are continually coming up with expensive ways to make pointless changes. In '96 we had the bright idea that ABs who did not wear epaulettes would now wear ones saying Royal Navy - just to remind them which service they were in. Then we had the Billy & Johnny style dungarees that were trialled on some ships to replace 8's at that time.
The only useful change post Falklands I know of was in around 2001 when a new style 8's (then re-named 4's) trousers were released which had thigh pockets. Those were released on a ship by ship basis along with a new norgie type top to replace the shirt. That was not too bad but - branch badges were not worn on them and - if you got drafted to another ship or shore establishment that had not yet adopted the new rig - you ended up having to get a re-issue of the old kit just to save the hassle of all the querying etc.

Baseball caps have always been worn on ships whilst on deployment. Never as official uniform policy but it was allowed. There was always a few who thought emulating the yanks looked somewhat cooler than a beret.
They were not issued but sold by the naafi - which was a pain if the captain decreed harbour stations would be wearing baseball caps if you didnt have one.

[Hangarshuffle]

Royal Navy's 'cool' new uniform will leave British sailors looking like garage mechanics, critics say - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11482597/Royal-Navys-cool-new-uniform-will-leave-British-sailors-looking-like-garage-mechanics-critics-say.html)


Their take on it.
Doesn't look that bad really, bit more practical with the big thigh pockets also useful. Dark blue hides the oil, the dirt and worse.

[NutLoose]

Dark blue hides the oil, the dirt and worse.

Tell that to Monica Lewinsky :p

[Old-Duffer]

Some years ago there was a bright idea that a ceremonial uniform would be provided and working/protective clothing also but only for those needing same - everybody would otherwise wear civvies.

Furthermore, at places like HQs, nobody in uniform wore a hat and all this saluting do dah went out the window, again except when necessary.

Perhaps fortunately, the days when I need to trouble myself as to where I left my sword and white gloves (and is it the canvas belt under the jacket or the gold wire one over it), are fast reducing and soon the sword will be just for opening the champers with a single stroke and the white gloves will be used for laying out the snooker balls or in my new job as a Toastmaster - all engagements welcome!

O-D

PS I've just forgotten how many gold bands a Squadron Corporal Major of Horse wears round his forage cap - anybody know offhand?

[Exascot]

Who comes up with these designs? This one I have no opinion one way or another but the Royal Air Force had some crazy changes. Horrible and cheap.

Sister Exascot says that the PMRAFNS trialled out a new uniform 20 odd years ago. It was see through. To get your knee on a bed to move a patient you had to hitch your skirt above your stocking tops. Then when lifting said person the uniform top was so tight that it ripped open.

Now who designed that? Give him a KCB :ok:

[glad rag]

You can get dark blue "bump" hats. I despised mine at first but wouldn't be without it now after 4 months or so, it really does do what it says on the tin, might be useful onboard, just a thought...

[Davef68]

I still think Rank epaulette on the front looks like one of those 'speaking dolls' of my youth, but I can see the benefit, especially for those vertical challenged sorts who had to squint to try and catch a glimpse of what rank a taller chap was. Still too 'American' for my grumpy old self.

[MG]

I think it was the French who started that habit.

[MPN11]

Rank on the front makes a lot of sense, especially when extra equipment smothers the shoulder area.

Anyone remember those awful 'invisible' rank brooches that went with RAF wetties?

[TheWestCoast]

Would have thought that they could have at least found a pair pants that fit the guy in the Telegraph picture. He looks like he's wearing his dad's clothes.

[MPN11]

oooh ... and that from California!! I do suggest that 'World's Smartest Dressed Military' may lave the USofA trailing in the league table ;)

[Lima Juliet]

Rank works on the front as long as no one minds being called 'mate' from behind as you can't see it on their shoulders!

...sounds like a song about Jaguars, actually, so to speak...:}

LJ

[Lima Juliet]

PS. I can't wait for the RAF Personal Clothing System...

http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bioe1/east01/east1.jpg

Aye!

[Wensleydale]

Has the "shirts tucked in" or "shirts out" debate started yet?

[P6 Driver]

This sort of change often seems to generate opinion and debate, but I suspect it's mainly from the old, bold (!) and retired who will never get to experience wearing the uniform concerned.

I'd be more impressed if I read comments from those who actually have to use it for real as their opinions may be more relevant.

I can't see much of a problem with uniform change - things move on.