Airbus Boeing Objective Differences Compilations (Not a discussion)

[titaniumwings]

This thread is NOT meant to be a controversial discussion/debate of Airbus vs Boeing. No slamming.
It is NOT meant to highlight the cons/dislikes/"deficiencies" nor discuss the merits and advantages of either type.
It is NOT meant to instigate any changes in procedures, techniques or policies.
It is not prudent to participate if you feel extremely strongly for either ac made.
It is meant for those who are versed/rated in both ac made.
It is purely to objectively list the differences between the two ac made especially for those who are transitioning from one to another.
For the listing the inverse can be stated if it is not obvious. Try to be accurate, open-minded, tolerant and practice patience.
It is purely for interest sake, for those who are interested and are interesting.
For those who are ready, let the list begin.

1. Airbus auto pitch trim
2. Boeing thrust levers backdrive

[main_dog]

Starting with the obvious:

-Boeing yokes interconnected and mirror A/P activity, Airbus sidestick movement independent of each other and fixed when A/P engaged

-Boeing thrust levers move with autothrottle engaged, Airbus thrust levers fixed with autothrust active

-Boeing will remain in VNAV PTH even if a selected heading takes aircraft away from LNAV path, on Airbus you need to be in NAV mode to remain in Managed Descent

-Airbus retains ability to engage another vertical/lateral mode after LOC and G/S capture (ie selecting HDG to commence a sidestep), on Boeing must disconnect A/P and F/D first

[Clandestino]

My paycheck as 738 capt is three times bigger than the one when I was A320 F/O and that is the only difference that matters.

[SkyWagon737]

Clandestino says :My paycheck as 738 capt is three times bigger than the one when I was A320 F/O and that is the only difference that matters.


That was really nice buddy, thanks for the laugh :D

- Airbus cockpit is spacious and Boeing Cockpit is not roomy

- You fly the Boeing and the Airbus flies you.

[hikoushi]

Airbus does not have a "managed cruise" mode.

[titaniumwings]

I am sorry Hikoushi, can you elaborate a little bit on this please?

Main_dog's contribution is objectively factual. Many thanks.

[737Jock]

In a boeing you can copy a waypoint in the scratchpad by using the lsk, in an airbus you always need to type the waypoint.
The airbus has no magenta line, but a green line to indicate the route. As such airbus pilots will never be children of the magenta.

[titaniumwings]

1. Boeing yokes interconnected and mirror A/P activity, Airbus sidestick movement independent of each other and fixed when A/P engaged

2. Boeing thrust levers move with autothrottle engaged, Airbus thrust levers fixed with autothrust active

3. Boeing will remain in VNAV PTH even if a selected heading takes aircraft away from LNAV path, on Airbus you need to be in NAV mode to remain in Managed Descent

4. Airbus retains ability to engage another vertical/lateral mode after LOC and G/S capture (ie selecting HDG to commence a sidestep), on Boeing must disconnect A/P and F/D first

5. Airbus does not have a "managed cruise" mode.

6. In a boeing you can copy a waypoint in the scratchpad by using the lsk, in an airbus you always need to type the waypoint.

7. The airbus has no magenta line, but a green line to indicate the route. As such airbus pilots will never be children of the magenta.

8. Airbus 2 AP buttons. Boeing 1 AP button (for 3 APs)

[slast]

I was the first pilot in the UK to qualify on A320 from B757 and was on the SAE S-7 Flight deck and Handling Qualities Standards committee.

If you are interested I can supply you with 2 technical papers I presented at SAE Aerotech Conferences around 1990.

SAE Tech paper 892239 covers early impressions of the A320 after the B757.

The other was SAE Tech Paper 912225, a study done in BAW on the Autothrust systems. BA was deciding whether to buy A330/340, MD11s or B777s to replace its DC10/L1011 fleets, and wanted to know whether it would make moving thrust levers a Master Change customer requirement in the event of ordering Airbus. Eventual conclusion was that there were pros and cons to both, what we saw as the pilots' "ideal" system would have Boeing style backdriven levers in the range from idle to climb power and Airbus engagement and rated power setting method.

[Denti]

8. Airbus 2 AP buttons. Boeing 1 AP button (for 3 APs)

That depends on type. The 737 has two buttons for AP engagement and only two autopilots which are capable of CAT IIIb operation, quite similar to the A320 actually, just that the airbus displays CAT 3 single/dual and the boeing LAND3 or LAND2.

Recently i had an unpleasant surprise on the bus, we were preparing for an RNAV (GPS) approach and shortly before the FAF were cleared on a lower altitude and and an intercept heading to intercept behind the FAF. As the next waypoint was the runway a managed approach as briefed and prepared was not possible anymore, whereas on the boeing i still can press my APProach button and happily fly the approach. Of course we switched to selected/selected and flew it just fine for the first few 100 feet until i decided to switch it all off and continue visually.

Added to that the amount of information i can display on the ND is a lot less on the airbus (either CSTR/ARPT, etc. whereas i can display everything i want at the same time on the boeing). Boeing has navigation performance scales on the PFD and ANP/RNP on the ND, airbus has no display of ANP on its main screens, only on the MCDU. I do miss the vertical situation display, especially when approaching or departing airports like Innsbruck or Salzburg and in convective weather where it allows me to have both terrain on the VSD and weather on the map view, but on newer airbii (the whale and A350) it seems to be available as well.

[Amadis of Gaul]

Not quite. It trims for flightpath.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

If you increase thrust both in an Airbus and a Boeing they will both increase their speed. A Boeing will pitch up to chase the trimmed speed (like a Cessna... pardon, I am still in training), an Airbus will keep flying straight ahead unless you order any change to your pitch angle. When everything returns to steady state, a Boeing will be flying at the trimmed flight in a climb and the Airbus will be flying straight and level but faster. Is that how the trim in an Airbus works?

Just curiosity.

[main_dog]

unless you order any change to your pitch angle

Almost correct, except you should have written "unless you order any change to your flightpath" as Amadis said. On a Toulouse product in normal law, pulling or pushing on the sidestick commands a change in g-loading, left and right commands a roll rate. So in your example as long as you increase thrust smoothly, at the end you will still find yourself in level flight but at a faster airspeed and a lower pitch angle.

On Seattle products, it's pretty much as you said... I'm not familiar with the T7 but I do believe you trim for a specific speed, and on the 744 -if we ignore the effects of the centre of thrust of the underslung engines not being aligned with the centre of gravity (so a change in thrust requires a change in trim)- it's again pretty much as you said.

[qwertyuiop]

I thought the Airbus would start a gentle climb.
As you say, it will maintain 1G. As your IAS increases you need to push forward ( less than 1G) to remain level, hence a climb.

[safetypee]

Titanium, et al, a list of technical issues is of little value without context.
In the Airbus-Boeing environment there are significant differences in timescale and thus available technologies; also differences in philosophy, yet both achieving the objective of improving safety.
There are also differences in design philosophy and marketing strategy; Airbus in their time, highly innovative, Boeing less so, and chose not to follow the Airbus route, yet both have been successful in safety and conversely in suffering problems of human interface.
Other differences might account for this, designs not matched to the current operational environment, inappropriate assumptions about who and how the equipment will be operated, or did not see the new range of social influences on the human.

Thus a change between aircraft types involves more than equipment or systems functioning, it has to consider deep seated reasons and assumptions about the aircraft design, the operational environment, basic training, operator expectation and individual adaptability.
Yet at the end of the day, they are all aircraft, to be flown, operated, and enjoyed; the technicalities are not as important as is the way in which we think about them.

[Roj approved]

I have recently been rated on the B787 off an A320, so here are a few things i have noticed:

B: F/D's need to be switched back on after G/A from Visual app, otherwise they disappear at accel ht.
A: FD's come back on and stay on

B: GA is done at 2000fpm, unless TOGA pressed again, then it is full rated
A: GA is at full rated thrust

B: after GA, approach needs to be restrung
A: Approach is restrung automatically (and ALTN route offered)

B: Auto throttle wake up won't always stop you from getting too slow
A: Alpha floor will always protect you (unless you have an abnormal flight control law downgrade)

B: you can stall
A: You can't stall (unless you have an abnormal flight control law downgrade)

B: you can't string an alternate after the missed approach, (at the end of the flight plan, therefore no really accurate fuel predictions at the alternate)
A: you CAN string an alternate after the missed approach, (at the end of the flight plan, this will give you accurate fuel predictions to the alternate)

B: Auto rudder trim with sensed Engine failure (AP not required)
A: Rudder trim required until AP in

B: Non normal checklists are much better, includes all the FCOM notes
A: ECAM doesn't totally fix the problem, you still need to look in the FCOM if time permits

B: F*@#en HDG Bug:{
A: Hdg Bug disappears when in NAV

B: DCT, then select LNAV
A: DCT to then NAV automatically engages

B: Automatic Anti Ice (i believe this is 777/787 only)
A: Manual Anti Ice

B: no times/dist on LEGS page (requires pushing next page)
A: times/dist on Flt Pln page

B: no distance to threshold (except fix page)
A: PROG page gives distance to threshold, or any wpt

B: the box:{
A: THE BOX:ok:

these are the big items i see day to day. my favourite???

I only do 1 sector in the B787 (used to do 4 in the A320)

I go to nice places in the B787, I always ended up at home in the A320

I feel you program the Airbus, then let it go, the Boeing, you have to keep pressing a button to keep it flying.

[AerocatS2A]

I thought the Airbus would start a gentle climb.
As you say, it will maintain 1G. As your IAS increases you need to push forward ( less than 1G) to remain level, hence a climb.
No, pushing forward just maintains the 1G. If you don't push forward the aircraft climbs which is a change in direction AKA acceleration therefore change in G (increase in this case.)

[TURIN]

Boeing. No brake fans.
Airbus. Brake fans. :mad:

Boeing. Lunch on (in) your lap.
Airbus. Dinner at eight, silver service at table. :)

Boeing. Doors-visit to the osteopath required.:*
Airbus. Doors-one handed slick operation.

Boeing. (777) MAT.:ok:
Airbus. CFDS :ugh:

[Jwscud]

The older Boeings maintain a full manual reversion in the event of hydraulic failure.

Airbus I believe leave you with pitch trim and rudder only.

In a Boeing, you fly the aircraft with the control column. In the Airbus, you converse with the computers via the sidestick...

[Roj approved]

Oh yes,

I MISS MY TABLE!!:(

[tdracer]

The older Boeings maintain a full manual reversion in the event of hydraulic failure.
That's really only true for the 737 series (and the Boeing models that preceded the 737).
Starting with the 747, you've pretty much needed hydraulics to have a happy outcome.

[Jwscud]

Really? I thought all the models pre-737 had manual reversion as well. It's a luxury I'm loth to give up, having only been rated on aircraft that have cables as the ultimate backup.

[stilton]

That's what he said actually.


B707 was always in 'manual reversion' as it used control tabs for most control surfaces except rudder.


B727 controls were fully powered but had complete manual reversion available and rudder control through a standby system.

[Jwscud]

Apologies. Can't read...

[Capt. Inop]

I thought all the models pre-737 had manual reversion as well

They had. But the B737 is seen as the last in production modern airliner capable of full manual reversion.

[SOPS]

I may do it, without noticing that I am doing it, but I find compared to the 737, I hardly trim the 777 at all.

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

I may do it, without noticing that I am doing it, but I find compared to the 737, I hardly trim the 777 at all.

Once again, not rated, but is my understanding that the 777 trims on her own, you just select the trim reference speed and then based on your attitude and thrust she trims to chase that trimmed speed. She also trims on her own with configuration changes (gear down, flaps). Is that correct?

[misd-agin]

It's been a couple years since I've been in the books but here goes - moving the trim switch basically takes a snapshot of the current speed. I think the actual limit it will adjust is 10 kts per click. So if you're 20 kts off of trimmed speed - click, click, and you're in trim. Because of that you trim a lot less.

And it auto trims for configuration changes. Very user friendly.

[FCeng84]

The 777 system requires pitch trim input to adjust the control system's target speed during manual (i.e., autopilot disengaged) flight when changing speed. With the pitch trim input activated (wheel mounted thumb switch or aislestand alternate pitch trim levers) the target speed is ramped up or down at a rate of 10 knots per second.

The 777 system automatically adjusts the elevator and stabilizer to balance pitch trim disturbances associated with configuration changes such as flaps, speedbrakes, or gear extension/retraction and changes in thrust. There is no need for the pilot to make trim inputs unless changing the desired steady operating speed. As a result, the pitch trim workload on the 777 is much less than on an unaugmented airplane.

Note that with automatic balancing of thrust pitching moments, it is common to fly the 777 with manual path control while the autothrottle is engaged. That combination is not recommended on most unaugmented airplanes as the pilot would find it necessary to adjust pitch trim every time that the autothrottle changed the thrust level.