Bi annual Revalidation Flight Expired

[Andrew2487]

Hi, Can anyone shed any light on what I need to do to stay legal / fly again as PIC - I have stupidly allowed my Bi-annual revalidation flight to expire.... (an unfortunate combination of my busy lifestyle, lack of instructor availability and poor weather has led to me not being airborne for nearly 5 weeks). Do I need to undertake a full skills test again ? or can I just have my hours training with an instructor on my next flight to revalidate ? Thanks Andy Smith

[Mach Jump]

Hi Andy. Welcome to Pprune.

If your Licence is a PPL, has your SEP Class Rating actually expired? If it has:-

What you need to do now, is visit your local ATO/RTF (Flying School) and ask the Head of Training(HoT) there to asses what, if any, training you need to do to be recommended for the Renewal Flight Test with an Examiner.

When you have completed the training, if any, the HoT will sign you a Course Completion Certificate, allowing you to take the Test.

The Test itself is much the same as the one you took to get your Licence in the first place. The only difference is that the Nav. section will be shorter.

After a sucessful Test, The Examiner will sign up your Licence for another 2 year period.


MJ:ok:

[Andrew2487]

No my SEP is still well in date.... and I am logging approx 50 hrs / year and have done for the last 6 years.... it is just the bi-annual hour training with an Instructor which has dropped just the wrong side of the 2 yearly deadline - by a week..... common sense would be just to make sure I fly my next hour as a training / revalidation flight.... but common sense & Aviation Rules are not always one and the same.... hope this carifies my situation :confused:

[Mach Jump]

Ah, Ok. :)

There is no deadline for the training flight, except that it must be within the 12 months preceding the expiry date of your SEP Class Rating, so you are still legal.

Just do your hour's training with an Instructor and get your Licence signed by an Examiner before your SEP runs out.


MJ:ok:

[dublinpilot]

No my SEP is still well in date.... and I am logging approx 50 hrs / year and have done for the last 6 years.... it is just the bi-annual hour training with an Instructor which has dropped just the wrong side of the 2 yearly deadline - by a week

That makes no sense to me. The only deadline for the training Flight is that it must be done before the SEP rating expires.

The SEP class rating lasts for two years. I think you are confused and confusing the readers on what had actually expired and hence some of the advice above may not be correct.

[MrAverage]

Andrew2487

Do you have an FAA licence or a CAA issued licence?

[MrAverage]

and just to get things spot on the term is biennial.

[Level Attitude]

That makes no sense to me. The only deadline for the training Flight is that it must be done before the SEP rating expires.No, Mach Jump was spot on.

An SEP is valid for two years but to revalidate it 'by Experience' the experience must all have been gained during the second year of the two year SEP validity period.

From what he has posted, Andrew2487 did not allow his "Bi-annual revalidation flight to expire" as it was never 'valid' for Revalidation purposes as it took place the 'wrong side of a deadline'.
NB: Not sure what he meant by a "2 yearly deadline".

Andrew,
Unsure what other qualifications you hold but note that a successful Flight Test (of any length, for any Rating) can replace the one hour Dual requirement for SEP revalidation by experience. Have you passed any Flight Tests within the second year of validity of your SEP?

[Mach Jump]

and just to get things spot on the term is biennial.

The term is neither 'biennial' or bi-annual, but:

'A training flight of at least one hour with a Flight Instructor.'

This must be completed, as LA says, in the second of the 2 year validity of the SEP Class Rating, and may be divided into no more than 3 separate flights, so long as they are with the same Instructor.


MJ:ok:

[Level Attitude]

Do you have an FAA licence or a CAA issued licence?MrAverage asks a most sensible question.

Due to his location I, and (I believe) MJ, are assuming Andrew2487's question relates to a UK issued PPL.

My answers are based on that assumption.

[Mach Jump]

MrAverage asks a most sensible question.

Indeed he does.

Due to his location I, and (I believe) MJ, are assuming Andrew2487's question relates to a UK issued PPL.

And the fact that Andrew refers to his SEP, rather than his SE rating.


MJ:ok:

[MrAverage]

Unless O.P. answers some of our questions we may never know.....

[MrAverage]

and it is referred to in the U.S. as a biennial which is partly why I asked which licence was involved.......

[dublinpilot]

From what he has posted, Andrew2487 did not allow his "Bi-annual revalidation flight to expire" as it was never 'valid' for Revalidation purposes as it took place the 'wrong side of a deadline'.

I see what you're getting at. I read it that he'd left it too late to do the training flight. But indeed what he actually says is that the flight did take place, but too far in the past.

[foxmoth]

Well, from his profile location he is in Linconshire so assuming he is on some sort of UK issued license, if it is more that two years since his instructional flight I wonder if his SEP rating is actually valid - if it is then he just needs to do a flight with an instructor and get it signed up before expiry, if not then it needs a flight with an examiner and he should not be flying P1 until he has done so.

[maxred]

Andy, you will require a skills test. You clearly state your reval has run out. This happened to me a few years ago. My IMC, and SEP reval, ran out of sync. Despite me having my IMC test, which should have covered me for my 1hour instructor flight, which would have then signed off the SEP, the IMC instructor did not sign my SEP review.

I asked if they would sign retrospectively. No was the answer. I required a one hour check ride in a club 172, which was then also charged as a skills test, which then allowed me to fly the club 172, and my SEP was duly signed.

Whole escapade cost me 500.00 quid. I was not that happy.

[S-Works]

It's not really difficult is it?

If the SEP rating is valid and the other revalidation by experience requirement are met then you just need to do a one hour instructional flight prior to the SEP rating expiring and get an examiner to sign the revolution page.

If the SEP rating has expired then it is an LPC.

As examiners we can't sign a rating that has expired even if the requirements have been met as it would be illegal. Therefore it's wise to ensure you get everything sorted on the THREE month window allowed....

[foxmoth]

You clearly state your reval has run out.

Not sure where he states this - on what I have seen so far he could have done his last instructional flight on say 1st Nov 2012 and had his SEP validation signed in January 2013 so still OK.

[Mach Jump]

I think that what some people are missing here, is that the so called 'Biennial' is not a strictly 2 year thing. (That's why it shouldn't be called a 'Biennial' :ugh:)

On any given cycle, the 'biennials' could be anywhere between just over 1 year, and just under 3 years apart, yet still fall within the experience requirements for revalidation.


MJ:ok:

[Level Attitude]

the IMC instructor did not sign my SEP review.maxred,
I should hope not. An Instructor is not authorised to sign to Revalidate a Rating.

Did you mean your IMC Examiner? In which case, did you ask them to also Revalidate your SEP at the same time as your IMC? Examiners are not mind readers!

After your (successful?) IMC Test, assuming all other requirements had been met, you could have gone to ANY Examiner to do the paperwork to Revalidate your SEP Rating 'By Experience'. Why didn't you, before your SEP ran out?
Whole escapade cost me 500.00 quid. I was not that happyBut whose fault was it? An (unfortunately expensive) lesson for you I believe.

get everything sorted on the THREE month window allowed.... bose,
Under EASA there is no 'three month window' for SEP Revalidation by Experience. Once the required second year experience is gained get the Rating signed up asap.

Unfortunately, on National Licences, an SEP Rating can still only be Revalidated during the 3 months prior to expiry.

A bit of a 'nuisance' for those who have both a Part-FCL and a National Licence !

[Camargue]

Bang on MJ.
My last 2 instructor flights were 5 days short of 3 years apart.

[MrAverage]

It's still a biennial in FAA land as it is the instructor that revalidates or renews....

[Mach Jump]

Yes. In FAA land things are different. 'Biennials' there have to be no more than 2 years apart, and so are truly 'biennial'!


MJ:ok:

[Andrew2487]

Thanks for all your replies.... I am going to book in for an hours instruction at my local school (where the CFI is also an examiner), and take it from there..... slightly annoyed with myself for allowing my SEP (Land) rating to "expire" (sorry I didn't make that bit clearer) prior to getting an hour with an instructor.... even more annoying that I now have to hire an unfamiliar aircraft to do a skills test in when I have a perfectly good Emeraude sat doing nothing. Lesson learnt - definitely. Thanks again everyone.

[Mach Jump]

Hi Andrew. Thought we might have lost you way back there.

If your Sep Class Rating has expired, then my original reply applies, but why not do any required training and test in your own aircraft? If he's not prepared to do the test in a tailwheel aircraft. send me a pm, ok?


MJ:ok:

[ChickenHouse]

bose,
Under EASA there is no 'three month window' for SEP Revalidation by Experience. Once the required second year experience is gained get the Rating signed up asap.

Unfortunately, on National Licences, an SEP Rating can still only be Revalidated during the 3 months prior to expiry.

A bit of a 'nuisance' for those who have both a Part-FCL and a National Licence !
Level Attitude is offline Report Post

Not quite right. I had to renew my Part-FCL just recently and there still is the 90 days rule for renewal - you only keep your renewal date, if the bi-annual training flight is within 90 days before SEP expires. You can go earlier, indeed, on a checkride with a FE, if experience requirements are met, but this will extend your SEP two years from the checkride date, not the SEP expiration date. Under EU regulations time between checkrides never exceed 2 years.

[Level Attitude]

ChickenHouse,
Your Post uses misleading or inaccurate terminology and ends up being, pretty much, completely wrong.

You do not seem to have read the previous Posts within this Thread, and certainly not my Post, that you have quoted, and which prompted your reply.

I said 'Revalidation' you talk of 'Renewal'. They are not the same thing - and, in particular, a Renewal can only be achieved via a Licensing Proficiency Check.

I specifically said 'Revalidation by Experience' not by Proficiency Check.

you only keep your renewal date, if the bi-annual training flight is within 90 days before SEP expiresThe 'window' is not 90 Days, Part-FCL says 3 Months (so could be 92 Days).

For Revalidation by Proficiency Check: An LPC would have to be taken within 3 Months of expiry in order not to lose any existing SEP Rating validity.

For Revalidation by Experience: The Dual Training Flight could be any time in the 12 Months prior to expiry without losing any existing SEP Rating validity.

Under EU regulations time between checkrides never exceed 2 years.There is no such thing as a 'checkride' under EASA.

Even if you meant LPC the statement is still wrong:

- An LPC may not be necessary at all if Revalidation by Experience is used, so time between them could be infinity.

- An LPC for Renewal or Revalidation more than 3 months prior to expiry will result in the Rating being valid for 2 Years from the end of the month the LPC was taken in - so Rating could be valid for 2 Years and 30 Days after the LPC.

- An LPC for Revalidation within 3 Months of the expiry date would result in a Rating valid for 2 Years from the expiry date of the current Rating - so Rating could be valid for up to 2 Years and 91 Days after the LPC.