Departure spin video

[Pilot DAR]

This video was presented elsewhere, and is worth posting here for its educational value in stall anticipation and recognition.

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[Prop swinger]

Very nasty.

[ShyTorque]

Having lost control once the pilot seemed unconcerned that he was about to do so again.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

WTF?

Touch & go with an immediate turn towards the trees, nose high, tree tops going past the cockpit as the aeroplane mushes. Turn tightens still at high AoA and inevitably there's departure with a stall / spin into the ground.

If the RH seat guy is an instructor (he put the power on for the touch & go) why did he sit there and let that happen?

Anyone know more background to this?

[mad_jock]

I suspect he had his hands on the controls from the moment he put the power up.

Also notice the approach speed.

Putting the power on before the nose wheel has even touched down.

Its not a touch and go its a go-around.

no sign of them removing and flap either.

instructor is an idiot.

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Flifenews.ru%2Fnews%2F144283&edit-text=

It appears he is now a dead idiot.

[Mach Jump]

Anyone recognise the aircraft type?

Student's approach looked ok, if a bit fast at first, Then there may have been a slight baloon, or bounce at the end.

It looks like the instructor then took control for a touch-and-go/go-around and got airborne at such a low speed that he didn't have sufficient rudder/aileron authority to counteract the slipstream/torque reaction, and had to reduce power to regain control.

Then he found himself heading towards the trees at reduced power and low speed, stuck between either flying into the trrees, or losing control again by increasing power in an attempt to clear the trees :uhoh:


MJ:sad:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

The student is over-controlling with a vice-like grip on the stick. The instructor does appear to reduce power after the very late GA, then re-apply it when he sees the trees looming up. The aeroplane never seems to be recovered from the high alpha of the landing flare, and there is no deliberate left turn. In fact as the bottom drops out of it and the aeroplane stalls and rolls off to the left the student lets go of his stick, and the instructor appears to grab his own stick and pull it hard back!

[rarelyathome]

MJ.

Not sure it was like that. They both seem pretty relaxed on the climb (stagger) out and unaware of the pending disaster.

Tragic and, for all its horror, a good training aid.

[worrab]

Using Google translate:

The camera recorded the flight of light aircraft and the moment of the fall.

At the beginning of the movie shows that the aircraft is landing on the runway, but after contact with the ground decided to go to the second round. At some point, the pilot lost control and the plane crashed in afforestation strip.

Recall from light aircraft crash Harmony occurred near the village Razdolye Vladimir region. The aircraft fell to the crown.

The accident killed 44-year-old pilot, instructor pilot 1st class Vladislav Vasechkin. Copilot Roman Chernov was taken to hospital and is now in intensive care, LifeNews reported in the investigative agencies.

- Privolzhskoe SU transport RF IC conducts preliminary inquiry into the fall of light aircraft in the Vladimir region, - commented in SU transport IC Russia. - Investigators inspected the scene. Currently interview eyewitnesses, studied flight documentation. In addition, the assigned number of examinations that will help to establish the cause of the incident. Also, the work involved in the investigation specialists Interstate Aviation Committee.

Earlier it was reported that the victims committed training flight from the airfield near the settlement Voskresensk Noginsk district, Moscow region. The aircraft belongs to the company "Aeroteh."

[Mach Jump]

SSD: Have another look. The instructor's hands, initially on his knees, both move on to the controls as he applies power. He is in control from then on, albeit with the student still holding his own stick and throttle.


MJ:ok:

Ps. Isn't the Harmony an AT-3 derivitave?

Perhaps some AT-3 instructors can comment on the directinal control available when full power is applied at very low speeds?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Ah yes - in fact the instructor appears to have his hand on his stick from the GA onwards, though for most of the time it's not in the camera's field of view. Even more inexplicable!

[Pirke]

The instructor should have known that when you apply full throttle the nose goes to the left. Nobody corrected for that. And the student on the left should never have been allowed to pull up the nose like that while flying towards the tree tops, that's an accident waiting to happen.

[Mach Jump]

Although I've never flown an AT-3 or it's derivitives, I know a few people who do.

The one common thing I hear from them, is that direction control when full power is applied at low speed is very marginnal, and instructors commonly advise students, or converts to delay lifting the nose on the T/O run until climbing speed has been reached.

Here's another similar accident involving loss of control during a go-around.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/Aero%20AT-3,%20G-UKAT%2012-10.pdf


MJ:ok:

[piperboy84]

That is crazy how quick that happened.

Was the turn to the left deliberate to start with, there was no xwind, and would that rotax have enough go about it to have that much left turning tendencies shown, I thought it would be pretty benign?

Why did the right seat guy pull the power back for a second on GA.

It all seemed very casual right up to where the **** hit the fan.

I suppose this is why instructors drill into you NO turns under 500 agl on climb out and no power changes till 1000.

[Pirke]

500 ft isn't going to help if you enter a spiral... In this case they should have dropped the nose, gain speed and turn away from the trees before climbing out without speed at a large AoA.

[Finn47]

The accident aircraft is actually made by Evektor and the model in question is the U.S. LSA version of the Eurostar/Sportstar, marketed as "Harmony"

Harmony LSA - The Ultimate Cross Country and Training LSA (http://www.evektoraircraft.com/en/aircraft/harmony-lsa/overview)

[tartare]

That is chilling.
Watched this on the bus coming into work in Sydney this morning.
Couldn't help myself - said "Oh, God - no..." out loud as soon as I saw the view of the trees outside the stude's left window.

[piperboy84]

Makes me wonder if they had put into practice positive handling techniques i.e. "you have the control/I have control" instead one one guy on the stick and the other on the throttle this accident may have been avoidable. They seemed unaware or at least casual to the impending danger right from the commencement of the heading change

Neither one really had definitive control or acted as PIC

[Maoraigh1]

I suppose this is why instructors drill into you NO turns under 500 agl on climb out and no power changes till 1000

Might work on the Maule, but with a poor angle of climb aircraft would not work everywhere.

Could the instructor's momentary throttle-back been an attempt to get out of the left turn effect as described in the linked AAIB report?

[gasax]

I fly a not that dissimilar aircraft and have now watched the video quite a few times. It is all speculation and I want to pick up my pension - not be a dead test pilot, but;

At low airspeeds my Zodiac with a 912ULS needs half a boot full of rudder. If you add lot of power just before the stall it will either - fly, climb or depart violently to the left. The airframe is vibrating loudly, the nose skyhigh but it can and does depart, once you get into the buffet.

Watching the video they lift off with the airspeed somewhere pretty low. With high power my aircraft will fly, but yaw control is difficult. Given the pretty laissez faire approach in the cockpit I suspect the turn toward the trees was at least partially involuntary.

Whilst the aircraft is then flying, it does not accelerate or seem to climb. So very high angle of attack, high drag and the options are either put it on the ground immediately or find space. Instead there is a 'combined' flying attempt where the nose stays high and headed toward the trees.

The instructor reduces power and the aircraft responds by banking right, away from the trees - but although not obvious from the video I suspect a loss in height was immediately apparent - reflex action - put the power back on?

From then on things were inevitable - no more options and a final pull up.

Certainly my aircraft gives a feeling that little can go wrong, it has a terrific power to weight ratio which allows high levels of pitch and still gives the ability to climb and/or accelerate. At the stall with high power it is much more difficult, as the margin between departing and flying seems quite hard to judge (great power to weight and powerful controls) - allowing that you have top put yourself into a pretty extreme attitude to start with!

So to some extent this video is an illustration of the slightly unusual situations an LSA can get you into. Oh and not really fly the aeroplane.

[RatherBeFlying]

Doing touch and goes, the usual practice is to first get it rolling properly down the centerline. Usually the stude will be managing the rollout while the instructor gets the flaps ready for takeoff. Only then is it time to add power.

So here we have power applied when the aircraft is at flying speed which promptly gets it back in the air but seriously yawed:eek:

We see an initial right bank to regain the runway, but it looks like a building is in the way; so they continue back left between the building and the woods; then seem to decide to do a mini circuit and head back to the trees.

Had the power been pulled off immediately they got pointed away from the runway, likely they could have got it on the ground and stopped before hitting the trees. Metal would likely have been bent, but survival odds would have been much better.

Some WWII fighters would promptly roll themselves into a ball if full power was applied at that point in the flight.

One question that needs answering is whether the aircraft has enough rudder to keep it straight when full power is applied in such conditions -- or whether it was applied after the swing had already happened.

[Cameronian]

I don't know anything about the aircraft nor where its bits are to be found. I saw the throttle go in but I didn't spot anything which could be the carb heat. Hot air means no go and lots of mush and that looked like what happened. Now someone's going to put me in my place by telling me it's fuel injected or something!

[FullWings]

Having just watched the video, I wonder if the airframe was ever under control from the moment power was applied to go around. It does seem to be operating almost off the back end of the drag curve. The final departure appears to occur below the level of the trees, so might have had some “help” from foliage catching the left wing...

The end result reminds me of this:

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although in that case they managed to keep the wings level until they hit the trees.