HDG Reference

[777-313]

Any one can comment on using TRUE & NORM HDG REF switch while flying MNPS NAT ?
I looked so many books and references, but could not find any.
One thing I know, No need to switch to TRUE as long as there is an IRS, GPS....!


Thanks

[Kamelchaser]

EK's procedure is to leave it to switch automatically in and out of TRU. Leave it in automatic unless you have to use HDG or TRK select; in which case you'll get an EICAS message AUTOPILOT and an amber line thru "HDG/TRK" on the FMA unless you manually select TRU.

Can't speak for other airlines but I assume that's a Boeing procedure?

[777AV8R]

Can't speak of operator's procedures however; the switch normally is left alone and the FMC decides when it wants to switch. I've flown polar with the aircraft more times than I care to think and we never touched it. There is no requirement to touch it on the NATS either.

[zlin77]

Can be useful in the pre-flight stage checking True Tracks and Distances on the FMC legs pages against the flight plan True Tracks, also airborne with amended clearances in the NATS System it pays to check True Tracks and Distances against the published charted ones…if it agrees, you are on the correct cleared route.

[ItsMeFromEarth]

777AV8R (http://www.pprune.org/members/14435-777av8r)How would you set TRUE TRACK on the MCP?

[Mr Good Cat]

How would you set TRUE TRACK on the MCP?

Well, unless you're within the polar ops window you shouldn't need to set true track.

However, if you are - just switch the HDG REF switch to TRUE and use TRK SEL as normal to fly a true track.

I don't fly the NAT tracks all that often but are any of them actually within the polar window?

[ItsMeFromEarth]

I know I have to use HDG REF for that, it was directed to 777AV8R the switch normally is left alone and the FMC decides when it wants to switch

[777AV8R]

Yup, if inside the keyhole and in True with LNAV engaged, the only way to select True on the MCP is to select True on Hdg. Ref. In all of the polar operations that I conducted, I actually never had to use select anything on the MCP as we let LNAV carry us along track. The tracks in northern Canada enroute to Russia are straight and there wasn't any reason to do any deviations. There isn't any weather up there to worry about. The Northern Lights were always a treat!

If someone else has experience, I'm all ears.

Thx and safe flight!

[Emma Royds]

Yawn..... Next!

[Desert Driver]

Sand hound, there is nothing like a stimulating intelligent post, and yours is nothing like a stimulating intelligent post.
I would love to get into a battle of wits with you but it would be unfair to take on an unarmed man.
DD

[nolimitholdem]

Sandhound's just mad because pretty much the opposite of what he states is true. Turns out the lack of freight on the 380 is a bigger factor than most considered (LAX is often mentioned) and of course, the usual Airbus penchant of over-promising, under-delivering. In this case, with regards to fuel burns. Fortunately oil prices continue to slump. So the camouflage can continue for awhile.

But I wonder why other airlines continue to cancel orders? Guess they just aren't as smart as Sir Timbit, World's Biggest 380 Fan. (He has the t-shirt).

So keep dissing the mighty 777, while it's 20 year old design continues to just quietly get the job done of making money, and they recruit "tractor drivers" onto the "flagship" because their own FO's (*cough Sandhound cough*) apparently just aren't quite up to the task...lol Of course, that's the "tractor drivers" who haven't already taken off for contract work, an option not open to the "flagship" drivers, although many sure showed up at the recruiting roadshows!

Latest rumour to get a dusting-off....747-8's. Again. You heard it here first.

oh yeah, and Ebola is bad. Bad Ebola.

[JammedStab]

Can be useful in the pre-flight stage checking True Tracks and Distances on the FMC legs pages against the flight plan True Tracks, also airborne with amended clearances in the NATS System it pays to check True Tracks and Distances against the published charted ones…if it agrees, you are on the correct cleared route.

Correct. The magnetic tracks seem to frequently be quite far off, I suppose depending on variation.

[Emma Royds]

Those terrible seats gave me lots of back pain

I find keeping active in the bedroom helps that! :p

[nolimitholdem]

sandy,

HAHAHA! If you're gonna try and troll, at least try and be credible. As if anyone can take you seriously. The bottom line is no one gets paid one fil more on one fleet than the other. I'd say hard money shows the TRUE value the company assigns the "flag****" more than any other factor. Taking the same money for more work doesn't suggest the highest IQ, after all. But if you need to feel better about yourself, that's cool. Lots of other short guys on your fleet to keep you company, don't worry.

But don't get too excited by new destinations, they've ordered 90 so they have no choice but to send it somewhere. Fact of life when you've gone all in. As a gambler I admire the commitment. Too bad no other airline seems to share it.

As I said, enjoy your comfy seats - most of the "JD" drivers who wanted to have, or are leaving. An option you don't have.

Sorry.

"according to TC" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! :ok: Good one.

[Bartholomew]

Sandhound....

A quick visit to EK SkyCargo provides these figures:

B777-300ER
23t of cargo + full pax (364 in 3 class)
8 PMC (big) + 20 AKE (little)
Cargo volume varies between 125-132 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Boeing 777-300ER - Emirates SkyCargo (http://www.skycargo.com/english/about-us/our-fleet/?plane=5)

A380-800
8t of cargo + full pax (489 in 3 class)
6 PMC (big) + 22 AKE (little)
Cargo volume 50 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Airbus 380-800 - Emirates SkyCargo (http://www.skycargo.com/english/about-us/our-fleet/?plane=1)

So, which pays more? Pax or freight?
I think we both know the answer to that question.
And how much less freight does the FS carry compared to the JD?

You're a smart guy..... ask the guy sitting next to you... in that comfortable "money-making" seat.

:ugh:

Enjoy your FS... SH

[Marcellus Wallace]

Updating the A380: the prospect of a neo version and what?s involved | Leeham News and Comment (http://leehamnews.com/2014/02/03/updating-the-a380-the-prospect-of-a-neo-version-and-whats-involved/)

[donpizmeov]

Bartholomow,

If we had an aeroplane that had, let's say 354 seats in it, and it's payload available weight is limited to 42-47t because of takeoff weight and time of year(14hr flight). How much of that 20t of freight will it carry? Remembering, pax weight on load sheet does not include bag weight.
Let's say another aircraft has 489 seats and can carry 66t on that same 14hr flight, all year round, how much cargo can it carry?

If cargo makes so much more money than PAX, why do we squeeze 10 across in Y and 7 across in J on the 777? Wouldn't it make more money carrying 300 pax in more comfort like CX does, and more cargo?

It is a shame that the use of true heading can still be the cause of concern after almost two decades of operation in the company.

The don

[Dropp the Pilot]

Now you've done it Bart.

There is nothing the A380 claquers hate more than math. The preferred response to any criticism of the A380 is "Tim Clark says".

[Capn Rex Havoc]

Dropp,

Looks like Don has countered the argument quite definitively.

Anecdotally, I and other staff have been left behind in Adelaide and Brisbane, because the freight took up seat space because of AUW issues. That has never happened on the 380 ex Australia.

(PS I'm not on the 380)

[Murrenfan]

Awful thread drift. It was a good professional adult discussion in fact. Soundhound, maybe it's time to grow up and start posting something more intelligent. If you are a professional pilot, act just like one.

[Bartholomew]

:=

Nice try Don..... but all I was doing was quoting what is published on these sites:

Our Fleet - Boeing 777-300ER - Emirates SkyCargo (http://www.skycargo.com/english/about-us/our-fleet/?plane=5)
Our Fleet - Airbus 380-800 - Emirates SkyCargo (http://www.skycargo.com/english/about-us/our-fleet/?plane=1)

Did you even look at them?

If you look at the published "cargo tonnage" comparison...
B77W = 16.7-23.0
A380 = 8.0

About your 20t v 66t payload available..... I cannot comment. I go on what is published.
But, as a technique.........

Not my Circus....
Not my monkeys....

(Sincere apologies for the thread-drift....... sometimes, you just cannot sit on your hands long enough.)

[Bartholomew]

Bring those ropes.... tie these hands

[donpizmeov]

Bart,

I will type slowly to help you understand.

On flights where the 777 can carry it's full payload, it will carry much more cargo than a 380. And it does so very efficiently. But the 380 carries another 166 pax.

When the 777 flies more than 12 hrs, it has to offload payload to onload fuel (with me so far?). So when it flies (flew to) BNE, for example, or 14hrs, it is only carrying 42 to 47t, depending on time of year. On these flights do you still think it's carrying 16.7 to 23t with a full pax payload as stated. Now Nolimit likes to mention how the 380s lack of cargo is hurting LAX. Hmm, 16hr flight, the 380 is still carrying 60t of payload, and the 777 is back to 35 to 42t. Have a guess which one the cargo is on?

Now I know you don't believe me. In fact you may be reliving that horror of finding out Santa does not not exist. But you can check for yaself. Ask the Capt to show you the load sheet. Subtract the DOW from the ZFW. That's how much stuff you are carrying to pay for the flight. The load sheet also shows pax weight, which is pax weight without bags. It shows cargo weight, and this includes the baggage weight.

Now that's not technique, but just how it's done. You should have an understanding of this before your command. But, that hasn't seemed to hold others back.

Now, do try and calm down. I am sure it's not your fault you don't understand these things as no one told you.

The don

[Al Murdoch]

Some of you guys really need to have a word with yourselves.

[adolf hucker]

It's a bit like listening to 2 RTA taxi drivers deliberate over who has the best wheels rather than discuss what's really wrong with their situation. Maybe pontificating on whose machine is better takes your mind off the fact that you're all doing a mind-numbing, unhealthy job while being treated like a 7 year old both at work and in Dubai at large. Nothing like missing the big picture.

[donpizmeov]

Sounds good Bart. Always happy to help.

The don