PPL (FI) - A definitive answer.

[AOJM]

I would just like a second opinion and some knowledge on an issue I have please.


I would like to gain an FI rating with a PPL licence. I understand that this means I can not instruct for reward, though the hours gain will count towards a PPL.

At the moment, I hold no licence but approx 60 hours from a UAS syllabus and approx 10 hours dual from an ATO. My UAS hours will only count towards the issue of an NPPL licence and I'm confident that I will be able to pass a NST and a GST but I am unsure of the requirements to convert this to an EASA PPL once completed.

I have passed all theoretical exams for PPL but when can I start studying for the CPL theory without a PPL licence?



Could anyone please correct me if I'm wrong? I would appreciate any reference to EASA caps/documents.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm sure you can look up stuff in CAP804 and EASA-FCL like the rest of us, but to help you out while you do.


- Military hours should count towards course minima, but you still need an applicable course completion certificate. In any case, just go see your favoured school's CFI. Military / UAS training differs in approach from civil training, so you're likely to need a bit of additional instructional time.

- EASA-PPL, + CPL writtens qualify you to take the FI course.

- You can now (thanks to a recentish rule change) be paid to teach at PPL level.

- You need an ICAO PPL (not necessarily an EASA one) to take start the CPL course. You need to do all the groundschool first, but you can hourbuild then in parallel with groundschool. Once you have both hours and a set of exam passes, you can start the CPL flying course. You do not need the CPL flying course to take the FI course, only the PPL, hours and CPL writtens.

- Most people prefer to take the ATPL writtens, which avoids separate IR writtens later, and also allows you to fly mandatory multi-crew which is not possible on CPL/IR with only CPL writtens.

G

[Whopity]

You do not need the CPL flying course to take the FI course, only the PPL, hours and CPL writtens. You do not need the CPL theory to complete an FI Course any more. You will need it to teach for a PPL, but not to teach for a LAPL.

Your best bet is to look in CAP804 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%20804%20Amtd%2015%20Sept%202014.pdf) Get an NPPL, convert to LAPL then upgrade to PPL.

[AOJM]

Thanks all.

I just couldn't decipher whether or not I could start sitting CPL exams without a licence. Is there any chance on getting a dispensation to this rule?

[Whopity]

From Regulation 1178:
GENERAL
1. The aim of the CPL(A) modular course is to train PPL(A) holders to the level of proficiency necessary for the issue of a CPL(A).
2. Before commencing a CPL(A) modular course an applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention. If you were to start a CPL Integrated course, no PPL is required.

What you need to realise is that the exams once past, only have a validity of 3 years, so for example, if you do the ATPL exams you would have to obtain both the CPL and the IR within that time.

[ifitaintboeing]

I would like to gain an FI rating with a PPL licence. I understand that this means I can not instruct for reward, though the hours gain will count towards a PPL.

If he completes the CPL theoretical examinations and only wishes to obtain a PPL with FI certificate, there is no expiry of those CPL theoretical examinations for this purpose.

Under EASA he can now instruct for hire and reward as a PPL holder in accordance with FCL.205.A.

ifitaint...

[WhirlyWopter]

Most interesting - something that I'm sure I'll make use of, but I can't help but worry about one thing: surely this will open the way up for PPL/FI's to 'charter' in a sense; to pick a 'student' up from one place and give them a 'trial lesson' culminating at a landing at another place, being paid in the mean time...

[Whopity]

If he completes the CPL theoretical examinations and only wishes to obtain a PPL with FI certificate, there is no expiry of those CPL theoretical examinations for this purpose.Which is why there is little point being persuaded to taking the ATPL exams if you only wish to instruct!

to pick a 'student' up from one place and give them a 'trial lesson' culminating at a landing at another place, being paid in the mean time... As all training has to be conducted at an Approved School there is no scope for independent activity.

[AOJM]

I'm struggling to find a place to allow me to sit CPL exams while I wait for good weather to qualify for my licence. I'm just looking to save a few months which should be possible surely.

[Duchess_Driver]

I'm struggling to find a place to allow me to sit CPL exams while I wait for good weather to qualify for my licence. I'm just looking to save a few months which should be possible surely.


Have you explored Commercial distance learning courses a little further afield than UK SE?

If you meet the minimum requirements to start I can't see why any school would put you off. Ideal time to do it. Or are you wanting to start the CPL before completing the PPL, in which case....

[dobbin1]

I did my CPL theory by distance learning at this Bournemouth based outfit:-

GTS CPL Distance Learning Course (http://www.gtserv.co.uk/cpl.html)

I note that they list a PPL as an entry requirement, probably for good reason. Why don't you phone them and ask why?

[BillieBob]

You don't need to phone and ask, the requirement is there because it's the law.Appendix III to Part-FCL

Before commencing a CPL(A) modular course an applicant shall be the holder of a PPL(A) issued in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago Convention.The CPL(A) modular course includes both theoretical knowledge and flight training and you must hold a PPL(A) to start either element. This is 'hard' law and no exemption is possible.

[Cobalt]

However, it is not illegal to buy and read some manuals, nor is it prohibited to conduct practice exams on question banks before you officially start the course...

[AOJM]

Thanks all,

Exactly the information I needed. It looks like I've got a long theory break until I can finish my PPL; timing good weather with my time off. I don't wish to start CPL flight training, simply complete CPL exams and start an FI course.

[Duchess_Driver]

and start an FI course.

Lot of hour building to do in the meantime then...

[Big Pistons Forever]

Does anyone else find it a bit troubling that the OP doesn't even have a PPL but is already looking for an FI course ?

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what license you hold before you can start a FI course you have to demonstrate a sufficient level of skill.

My experience has been that newly minted CPL's invariably still need additional training to sharpen their skills in order to be able to properly demonstrate all the manoevers. The chance of a low hour PPL being good enough without a lot of extra, and therefore expensive, training is IMO quite remote.