ATC - How do they remain so unflustered ?

[150 Driver]

It never fails to amaze me how calm ATC keep given the stupidity there is in the sky.

I was airborne today and witnessed the following exchange. G-XXXX was in receipt of a traffic service though why I don't know:-

"G-XXXX, you are approaching a paradrop area with parachutists dropping from Flight Level 150"

"Can you repeat that ?" (twice)

On repetition...

"My altimeter shows me 3,000 feet so I should be OK"

Subsequent exchanges indicate that he felt that as he was more than 2,500 feet above the ATZ he was OK. ATC must have been sweating but to their credit they remained entirely professional.

Thankfully nothing went wrong, but I was mighty glad to get on the ground and not have to share the sky with him any more.

Anyone got any worse examples of radio/airmanship than this ?

[piperboy84]

Flying from LA to the Harris Ranch up the Joaquin Valley many years ago I heard a guy I knew well talking with approach. They advised him about icing reports, he responded he would be just fine as "his aircraft was turbo equipped" !!!

Not surprisingly he is no longer with us, unfortunately he took 4 others with him (and a damned fine Bonanza) when he did finally push his luck too far flying VFR trained in IFR conditions

Reading the link below, especially his ATC communications affords a good idea as to why he's pushing daisies now.

Untitled Page (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20030630X00971&ntsbno=LAX03FA182&akey=1)

[AerocatS2A]

Ha, my experience is the opposite. I can often hear the stress in controllers voices when things get unexpectedly busy.

[Heston]

Scotch. Well it works for me :)

[chevvron]

In past times, controllers often had some sort of flying experience including PPLs, however nowadays this isn't the case. I was lucky to be trained on the old 'ATCO Cadet' system used by NATS where all ATCO Cadets did a PPL course as part of their training in order for them to be aware of the workload for pilots and hence controllers trained under this system were generally pretty 'laid back'. I generally tried to keep calm and collected, especially when handling student pilots or anyone who had a problem. I remember one case where a student reported a rough running engine which was losing power and he said he was going to put it down in a field, until the controller (the late Honey Monster) suggested he tried carb heat and the pilot subsequently reported the engine recovering its power. On another occasion, I had a VFR pilot in an R22 helicopter inadvertently enter IMC near Petersfield (ie high ground all around). He was naturally worried about keeping the aircraft in stable flight and also about the proximity of controlled airspace, but I told him 'you just fly the aircraft and let me worry about the airspace'. Now if myself and Honey Monster hadn't got PPLs, we wouldn't have recognised the pilot's problems.
Unfortunately nowadays this isn't always the case.

[Jan Olieslagers]

I never talk to controllers, only to FIS* - but I also have been impressed by their cool, time and again. It is true that not all them can stand high workload very well**, but while some have sounded nervous and stressed I never knew one to loose temper or patience or good manners.

* flying a microlight, I am disallowed to enter controlled airspace
** which can of course be seen in every professional environment

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I was perfectly calm and unflustered dealing with pilots although after half an hour on SVFR I used to go and kick eight shades of hell out of anything in my way!

[PA28181]

G-XXXX was in receipt of a traffic service though why I don't know:-

Why shouldn't he? What's the problem.

but I was mighty glad to get on the ground and not have to share the sky with him any more.

Yes, you were lucky to get away with it unscathed.

[John R81]

Chevvron and HD make good points.

It is amazing how pressure builds on a pilot as things "start to go wrong". I posted one exchange that happened with me on "ATC Humour" - post 1525. A calm attitude of the controller helped me greatly

John

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Professional UK ATC is just that - professional. But there are one or two GA fields where, one hears on these forums, angry 'gentlemen' sometimes shout at pilots over the radio. :eek:

[FantomZorbin]

... Peril Sensitive Glasses :E

[worldpilot]

Most of the time, I find ATC controllers authorizing flight actions and those only providing VFR pilots with information for the safety of flights, very accommodating, despite the often very busy schedule.

However though, there are pilots out there that are very complacent at the controls and think they are free from adherence to aviation regulations when piloting an aircraft. Such ignorance and negligence can actually be avoided by applying the right and appropriate thought process.

WP

[xrayalpha]

How do they remain unflustered?

Because they are professionals. That's it.

(You'll see the same with the maitre d' in a busy top-class restaurant on a Friday/Saturday night.)

ps The best compliment a student ever paid me: You remember that flight at xxxx when you didn't want to fly, but I insisted and you said - OK. Then as we were downwind and being chucked about all over the place and I thought I was about to die, you said: gosh, isn't it amazing how many people have bought trampolines recently. Just look at how many there are in those gardens... And I thought: if he has time to look at people's gardens and calmly chat about trampolines, maybe we aren't about to die!

I of course said: Yeah, remember that flight. I thought we were going to die too, but didn't see what good would come of telling you!

[pudoc]

In most of Europe, I agree very much with OP.

However, when it comes to Southern Europe I think the question is how do pilots remain so unflustered, and why is the controller stressing so much?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've heard unprofessional controllers ranting at pilots who had made reasonable requests or honest mistakes.

I've heard unprofessional pilots behaving far below the standards of their training.

I've on one occasion had calm down a stressed controller who was getting far too worked up over a relatively minor aircraft fault I was suffering (whoever was on Farnborough 125.25 about 1145Z on August 6th, thanks, spot on and much appreciated...)


But certainly, far more often I've heard very calm and professional controllers calm down and manage stressed, out of their depth, or panicking pilots. I've certainly had the same calm mood make my life much easier when I wasn't panicking, but having my own problems.


I think as xrayalpha says, it's because they're well trained professionals. It probably also helps that they're sat down, in a quiet environment, and not personally at risk from the outcome. I don't mean by this last that they're unfeeling in any way - but it should make it much easier for them to be calm and collected about what is going on, than somebody *also* worrying about their own skin.

G

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I'm usually calm when I'm not on fire, lost, crashing, out of control and with bits falling off....







:E

[piperarcher]

Genghis - Normally I agree with what you say, but on this occasion I dont.

I think as xrayalpha says, it's because they're well trained professionals. It probably also helps that they're sat down, in a quiet environment, and not personally at risk from the outcome. I don't mean by this last that they're unfeeling in any way - but it should make it much easier for them to be calm and collected about what is going on, than somebody *also* worrying about their own skin.


They are at risk from the outome. Even if say on Farnborough Radar, two aircraft only requested or were able to receive a basic service, and then collided with each other, then that controller is going to be subject to the ensuing investigation, and highly at risk of personal grief / mental issue problems, and maybe the end of a career. OK, they wont physically be at the same risk as the pilots who collided, but we cant say simply they arent at risk, and not worrying about their own skin. In fact, if they were too calm and collected, I'd be worried they werent on the ball completely.

Apologies if I have taken you out of context.


And generally, as much as I absolutely love the controllers on Farnborough Radar, I do get the feeling that it must be a nightmare of a task, and wonder if they have been banished to the OCAS sectors for punishment. I mean, surely an ATC would prefer the organised IFR nigh altitude sectors where pilots are mostly (not always) CPL or ATPL's and it is a highly organised bit of airspace.

Or maybe they like the thrill of slightly suspicious radio calls, inexperienced pilots genuinely needing help, machines without much in the way of redundancy and vulnernable, relatively high chances of a collision or an AIRPROX, multiple occurences of pilots being warned they are close to or have busted CAS (I heard four warning, and one bust in the space of 20 minutes of using Farnborough North last Friday). Hats off to them for not getting stressed - I would.

[360BakTrak]

surely an ATC would prefer the organised IFR nigh altitude sectors where pilots are mostly (not always) CPL or ATPL's and it is a highly organised bit of airspace.

Not necessarily. Some pilots prefer GA or biz-jets, others commercial airline work. Everyone has different preferences; some ATCO's love ATSOCAS, others prefer working inside CAS. Horses for courses and all that!

Also, CAS doesn't necessarily mean pilots are all 'switched on'. The busy bit of airspace I work can often become as hectic and chaotic as uncontrolled airspace for a variety of reasons! (Not by my doing, I hasten to add.....well, not all the time!)

[Sir Niall Dementia]

A good listen to Farnborough, any weekend leaves me agog at how the LARS controllers keep their cool, pilots determined to bust CAS (often with smart replies) pilots with little awareness of where they are, or like one day a pilot complaining about LARS being "no better than strength 3 ma'am" and complaining about the LARS signal strength for 40 minutes as though it was the fault of the lady concerned. She did a quick check around ten other aircraft who all got her strength 5, chap in elderly PA28 seemed unable to believe that perhaps it was his radios, and whined until he left for Shoreham.


I get to visit Farnborough LARs regularly while waiting for passengers there. They are a great crowd with really good kit, but the sight of one of them banging his head on the desk when a 172 wouldn't reply even though he was about to infringe CAS tends to bring home how frustrating the job is.


I go home to a controller and often we get supper ready while she describes the muppetry of the day, not all of it caused by inexperienced pilots out of their depth, quite often by ATPLs who have a sudden, unexpected brain fart. She did say though that when I once put out a PAN call on her approach frequency she was glad she was in the room, but not controlling, that one fell into the headset of a mate who then had to spend his next 5 transmissions trying to get another aircraft to shut up while we dealt with the problem.


HEATHROW DIRECTOR; those of us who spend half our lives going "Brent Battersea, avoiding R157" can hear it in the voices!


SND

[Il Duce]

Most LARS controllers often do sound calm and professional on the radio however, fliers might be surprised (or maybe not) at the streams of foul and abusive language that is uttered at the flying Muppets after the PTT button has been released. Otherwise known as Zone Tourettes!