Who pays for "child minding Air Force 1 & the rest at Fairford?

[nivsy]

with easy visibily and lots of "sightseers" I hope the tax payer is not paying for the local police and that of Thames Valley to be sitting around doing very little all day......apart from being on US territory I guess, would this not have been more cost effective if parked up at BZN or closer to where the summit is - say CWL......too logical?

[Courtney Mil]

Unless you want a lot of armed foreign soldiers and police roaming the countryside, it's normal for host nations to provide security in any country. On their own base, of course, it's up to them.

[Roland Pulfrew]

RAF Fairford is not US territory, the clue is in the title, and why would you park the jets at Cranwell? Security of Air Force 1 is usually tightly controlled by the USAF, not sure why Brize would be any better!

[nivsy]

The clue maybe a red herring- I believe that RAF Fairford is actually on a lease agreement with American cousins.

Brize better because not so easy from main road to see the aircraft therefore could migate need for excessive police presence on perimeter road.

indeed, still no idea why the a/c is not where the summit is - South Wales not Wiltshire, Oxfordshire etc......the clue is in the location!

[Typhoon93]

Air Force One usually isn't on the ground for long enough to need security - the aircraft only takes on that call sign when the President of the United States is on-board. :p The same applies for 'Marine One', the helicopter that transports Presbo.

I thought the SS was responsible for providing security of the aircraft when on the ground?

As an aside, has the British government allowed an exception for security personnel protecting the President to carry firearms? They're usually armed in the U.S.

[Roadster280]

If there's a US airfield within a few miles (53) from the location of the conference, why would the USAF park one of their jets on a civvy airfield?

I presume by CWL you mean Cardiff rather than Cranwell, but a civvy airfield is a lot harder to secure than a military one. Given the NATO summit might be expected to bring forth agitators (and has done so), security would be a fairly high priority thing. BZZ would have sufficed, but I suspect the Secret Service would rather run the show themselves on their own airfield than be subject to MOD Plod, civvy plod and even the RAF Police all having a pissing contest.

A few civvy plod guarding the outside of a sparse airfield seems reasonable, given that the UK has the privilege of hosting the summit.

[nivsy]

Armed in the US like every other American citizen you mean....:{

The aircraft has been on the ground at Fairford for 2 days now I think. Issue is nt security behind the wire but on public highways.

Your comment makes sense Roadster (to me) and yes CWL is Cardiff airport - although I draw the line at "privilege" perhaps...

[Bing]

I believe that RAF Fairford is actually on a lease agreement with American cousins.

Doesn't make it US territory, nor in fact is the US embassy. Leasing something doesn't make it yours, buying something does.

[nivsy]

Would I not be correct in saying that should Fairford be leased to the USA, then they have every right under said lease agreement to operate within the boundary of the airfield as if it was American territory?

Who owns Mildenhall?

[Typhoon93]

Since military bases are, by and large, off-limits to (most) civilians anyway, I can't see the security of the aircraft being a problem as there is security of the station 24/7. At most I'd guess those on guard duty at that particular base are armed. That was certainly the case when I did a brief stint at a Naval dockyard on work experience.

I believe the USAF also carry the Marine helicopters and the crews which transport the President by air. He likes to take them everywhere he goes if possible, and I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be possible in the UK. So his security isn't really an issue since the venue is surrounded by plod and other employed security personnel, and the airspace is off limits to civilian aircraft.

[Roadster280]

ROYAL AIR FORCE Mildenhall is owned by er... UK MOD.

It has an RAF Station Commander. The Base Commander and 99% of the staff on the base are USAF, but it is still an RAF station, like all USAF-occupied stations in the UK.

[Bing]

They have the right to exercise extraterritoriality, i.e. exercise their own legal jurisdiction etc. as do embassies etc. however this is at the gift of the host nation and isn't automatically conveyed by the act of leasing land.
The exact details governing Fairford, Mildenhall etc. is probably down to an inter-governmental agreement but it doesn't stop it being UK territory, and if we thought they were up to something dodgy we could probably remove the right. Certainly this is the situation with embassies as I understand it, i.e. if they are conducting activities not in keeping with their status as an embassy then it stops having diplomatic immunity.

[nivsy]

Indeed, yet Mildenhall doesoperate almost like an American station, it has outlets that are US Dollars and operates through agreement like a US base...goodness not sure when a UK aircraft visited last on any mission.

Anyway we digress....

[Roland Pulfrew]

Nivsy

You've had your answers: RAF Fairford is the nearest military base capable of handling the aircraft. It's in a relatively remote location. It has pretty good security and control of access is easier there than at Cardiff. Brize is very busy and probably doesn't need the hassle. Road links to Cardiff are pretty good, especially when you have lots of motorcycle outriders. Finally they won't be paying parking fees at Fairford. What more is there to discuss?

[Basil]

I'd rather pay for the security of foreign aircraft supporting an international conference than have them attacked and have an international fvkvp!

Why does someone from Gib give a damn anyway?

[Warmtoast]

US Forces in UK and Status of Forces Agreement

Brief details in this Parliamentary Paper here:
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06808.pdf (http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN06808.pdf)

which inter alia:
....briefly examines the legal agreements governing the United States Visiting Force in the United Kingdom. The legal basis for the US Visiting Force in the United Kingdom is primarily the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (NATO) Status of Forces Agreement of 1951 (SOFA) and the Visiting Forces Act of 1952.

If you serve/served in Germany you are/were covered by a similar SOFA with all the privileges it allowed, the main one I remember when I was there were the tax and duty-free petrol coupons, tax free shopping in the NAAFI etc.

[sunnybunny]

I went on a tour of Mildenhall with a relative stationed there. Had to have photo id and be signed in by a service person with ID.

It is more US than anything and the outlets deal in Dollars. IIRC one fast food outlet would accept £ but gave the change in $ & c.

The PX was something else and cheap items everywhere....... Ford Mustang or similar for $30, 000 anyone?

The relative told me that some of his comrades flew in to the base from the US and never went outside the perimeter the whole duration of the tour.

[Tankertrashnav]

It is more US than anything and the outlets deal in Dollars. IIRC one fast food outlet would accept £ but gave the change in $ & c.


I could never understand why the RAF didnt adopt the same sensible policy. A trip down the route to the far east could necessitate changing money into Cyprus£, Bahrein dinars, Gan cowrie shells and finally Singapore$, with exchange charges at each stage. Dont know what the arrangements in Afghanistan are, but once that has gone and the RAF is reduced to the size of a flying club I dont suppose it will matter any more. :(

[ian16th]

There used to be a 'Transit Bar' at El Adem, that would accept 'any currency', but the customer had to follow the same rule with his change. :*

Changing a £1 note for a beer late at night was dangerous.

[topgas]

It might be an RAF Station, but they can use deadly force. This was outside the B2 hangar a few years ago

http://i870.photobucket.com/albums/ab266/topgas28/PICT0091.jpg (http://s870.photobucket.com/user/topgas28/media/PICT0091.jpg.html)

[Hangarshuffle]

A very worrying sign. US law applied in the UK - terrible. Use of deadly force authorized?
The special relationship is stone dead these days, we shouldn't allow another nation to dictate their law in this manner here.

[Basil]

It might be an RAF Station, but they can use deadly force.
Errmm, many RAF RAF stations have had armed RAF Regiment guards for decades.
Did they or did they not have live rounds in their mags? Hmm?

And that wasn't to deter Islamist cnuts; it was to deter Christian (I use the term loosely) cnuts.

[hoodie]

A very worrying sign. US law applied in the UK - terrible. Use of deadly force authorized?

Those "deadly force authorized" notices were around at USAFE bases in the 1970s, and no doubt earlier. Bit late to be getting all precious about it now!

[Jimlad1]

"The special relationship is stone dead these days, we shouldn't allow another nation to dictate their law in this manner here."

You mean in the same way that we obeyed Iraqi and Afghan laws when we were guarding BAS or KAF?

[Heathrow Harry]

what surprised me is that for his visit to Stonehenge they apparently landed the helicopter at Boscombe and they pre-positioned one of his "cars" to take him down the road - shurely they could have landed next to the stones - or in the car park?

The helicopters must have the same secure comms as the "car" after all

[hoodie]

"The" helicopter? "The" car?

There were seven helicopters and a 20-odd vehicle motorcade!

[Tankertrashnav]

I remember hearing about some boneheaded RAF orderly officer ignoring the challenge from an armed guard back in V Force QRA days and getting shot for his trouble.

Dont know the details or even whether the story was true or not. Anyone know?

[effortless]

Mildenhall, Fairford, North Ruislip, Brize, well three of those four served steak with an egg on it for breakfast in the sixties but the other?

It weird what stuck in my mind. I guess old age is, er, I forget what I was saying.

[nivsy]

and was there by any chance at least 6 different varieties on how that egg could be served up..........

warmtoast thanks for the link - interesting

[effortless]

Don't remember, I was so gobsmacked. I'd never even seen a steak before! I just remember this bloke dishing up and saying, " Why not have an egg on the sir?"

[Cpl Plod]

Errmm, many RAF RAF stations have had armed RAF Police guards for decades.

Fixed that for you ;)

[VX275]

There were seven helicopters and a 20-odd vehicle motorcade!
And more Police transits full policemen than there were at the Brixton riots sat all day in the HAS site at Boscombe (Doing sweet FA). As they didn't bother to tell the inmates at Boscombe what was going on, the rumour going around to explain the police presence was 'Someone's nicked the Watchkeeper'.

[WhatsaLizad?]

Are you sure the 747 you saw was the actual AF1 used or the back up.

I know at times the Prez is in one and it's exact twin sometimes tags along. Both were parked nose to nose in Brazil back in the 1990's during a state visit. Two beautiful birds.

[chopper2004]

Remember a few months back, when his good self came across to the Benelux countries for the Nuke :cool::cool::mad: conference amongst 70 other countries. Well spotted this beauty with blood lol facing 29er with a Moose also facing the same direction in case of .....well-caught-short-lets-shout-for-help

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/longranger/c_32_support_1_zpsd6c56397.jpg

I am led to believe the above in ma pic, has appeared again at the end of last week facing, re-posing in the same fashionable way -

p.s you re sure the plod that decamped at the HAS in Boscombe are not there just to protect the Black Manta in it ha ha lol ,

cheers

[Heathrow Harry]

""The" helicopter? "The" car?

There were seven helicopters and a 20-odd vehicle motorcade!"


I was thinking of the Beast he uses - the one that got stuck in Dublin a couple of years ago...................... hysterically funny

[Davita]

My family was lodged at RAF Fairford Married Quarters when I underwent VC10 training at BOAC Cranebank. We were the first to occupy those Qtrs, built for USAF personnel, after they left.
It had central heating and the first energy bill was more than my salary. An investigatiion found that the USAF paid for everything and those servicemen would tie wet cloths around the thermostat to trigger a higher temp....and they rusted.
We had special dispensation on our bills but soon left to go to a hiring in Carterton.
Always wondered what the RAF did with those M.Qs.

[downsizer]

People from brize live in them now.

[nivsy]

and will probably be maintained by the commercial provider under a regional DIO Contract - so would not hold breath on repair quality or size of bills!

[Avionker]

Errmm, many RAF RAF stations have had armed RAF guards drawn from all ground trades for decades.

Fixed that for both of you.......