Virgin Atlantic recruitment?

[President Bush]

Anyone know how to get in to this FANTASTIC company?
Can it be done with turboprop experience only?
Could I join as cabin crew initially?

[JB007]

In short, no to both internal/turbo-prop!

If coming from a commercial background you must have an Airbus or Boeing rating and experience with 3000 hours, 1000 on type. If coming from a military background you will need to have 3000 hours which must include at least 1500 hours 'heavy' experience. You must hold a current Class one Medical and a full JAA ATPL licence (UK issue) - for military pilots a frozen ATPL is acceptable. You should be able to demonstrate a high level of fluency in English (ICAO level 6 English Proficiency).

Could be wrong, but don't think VS have ever done Cadets or "Pay to Fly" donkeys!

[maxed-out]

As far as I know, VA did do a cadet scheme a long time ago. I recall meeting a very young chap in Boston who may have been the last. I could be wrong but..

[JB007]

Come to think of it, think I had a chat with a Second Officer type in Antigua! Cruise pilot I think, so stand corrected on that! But it's not something I've seen them do for a while...

[elmore81]

They will definitely be doing a cadet scheme. I don't know the time scale but keep an eye on the website.

[INeedTheFull90]

Oh great another cadet scheme. Just what we need. It's sad that often today your first airline job will be your last. Were it's TP flying or LCC there is nowhere to go as airlines just want cadets. Sign of the time I suppose. It's just a shame that TP guys who work so hard and are great operators are stuck in the TP forever. It used be a case of starting small and ending up heavy jet. I feel that is no longer the case.

Yes MON took on some ex Dash operators from FlyBE but they will likely be out if a job soon and BA are only taking rated NAND experienced guys so there is still very little scope.

I've heard a couple of guys that VS is a like an old boys club and the chances of getting in matter not what your experience and skill set is but rather which squadron you were in when you were in the military. This coupled with the upcoming cadet scheme really means that VS is a no go to a lot of us. Shame as I'd love to work for them.

[justagigolo77]

Sign of the time I suppose. It's just a shame that TP guys who work so hard and are great operators are stuck in the TP forever. It used be a case of starting small and ending up heavy jet. I feel that is no longer the case.

The Irony is so lost on so many!

[321abc]

I have also been told by a very reliable source today that they will be opening up cadet recruitment very soon. Most likely end of september, early october.

[Jay_solo]

two factors to consider (if this programme starts):

a) will there will be an age restriction (say max age is 28)
b) will there be a flight time restriction - ruling out anyone with more than a PPL

If its like the BA programme, well good luck to the ab initio wannabees, but tough luck for all with anything more than a PPL.

[elmore81]

I would imagine it would be similar to the current FPP and EASY MPL

[RHS]

Let's just all face it, the only place the traditional move on upwards to eventually go long haul is the US. Good luck getting the right to live and work.

[VFE]

Pure PPRuNe speculation at its best here.

IF the cadet scheme goes ahead, who's to say it won't parallel the CX one and (initially) be open to international and experienced pilots?

Let's wait and see eh? :rolleyes:

[turbine100]

Believe it's a MPL scheme they are launching

[funkyt111]

Does anybody know whether this scheme is likely to be sponsored in any way, shape or form? I read previously that they are likely to be selecting OAA as their preferred FTO?

[President Bush]

So are virgin seriously planning to put cadets into the right hand seat or will they be sent elsewhere to fain experience?
What do you guys think of this?

[flying apprentice]

Why would Virgin be recruiting cadets ?

They've made huge losses for the past 5 years and only just recovering ?

Plus their new aircraft (789) are replacing their ageing 343/346/744 as they don't want to pay for expensive D checks.. No fleet expansion. So where is the big demand for new pilots coming from?

And they've streamlined their operation to get away with 2 crew operation to a lot east coast and Caribbean destinations (almost 33%) of their route network.

I'd be very surprised if they took on cadets unless they're looking for a few skivvies to do general ops for a few years before slotting them in when there is natural decay.

[Holyjoe]

Why not?! The big players all do it and Virgin is a big player. The cost would fall to the cadet, as per every other cadet program. I have many pals working there who would not consider anywhere else. There's a lot of experience at Virgin and any cadet chosen to work there would be a very lucky chap/chapette. Time to command can be a lengthy spell, but worth the wait.
Good luck to them. Am glad to hear Virgin are opening their doors and good luck to all who apply. To all the TP drivers, you have a job..be grateful of that. There are thousands around you who would jump at the chance to fly anything bigger than a C150. Yes the industry has changed and the career paths of 20 years ago are a distant memory bar a few exceptions.

[flying apprentice]

Don't believe the virgin hype.

They like to think they're one of the big boys, but with a fleet of 38 aircraft they're hardly huge.

I'm with Mr Walsh, I'll be surprised if the brand lasts another 4 years given delta are now involved.

[mad_jock]

cheap easy way of getting cruise pilots.

By the time they have claimed the VAT back, not paid cooperation tax on the training, reduced pay and reduced NI contributions they will have a free pilot for 2-3 years.

And they will get someone to carry the nav bag and make the skippers bed up to boot.

[EZY_FR]

Considering that VA will be present at the Flyer event in November for the first time, I'd say this is worth keeping a close eye on.

[CABUS]

VA May not have 200 jets but it's a happy ship with expansion and new aircraft on the cards, a great bunch of guys and girls who get on well and know how to have fun. Great place to be!

[FANS]

Do you think VA is doing this to have a broader experience and dynamic levels across flight crew or to reduce cost?!

[flying apprentice]

It still may be a great place to work. But not as great as it was before.

No more free parties at Xmas, or getting invited to dickie's house anymore. No more valentines or Xmas pressies. Those were the sort of touches that made virgin special.

Also a new upper class product which is worse than the previous one. It's like being in a coffin. Poor cabin crew had to deal with several complaints about it on my last flight.

As for expansion? What new routes are coming up ? Atlanta was a trade off for a NY slot with delta. Sydney has gone.

New B789 aircraft were necessary as the A346 was hopeless and the B744 will cost a fortune on it's next heavy maintenance.

I stand corrected and agree that they must be lining up some sort of recruitment if they're going to be at the flyer exhibition. Suspect the bean counters have figured out it will somehow reduce their costs. MPL / Cruise pilots maybe. But for what routes? West Coast USA ? South Africa ? Far East (HK, PVG, NRT) ?

[EGKK.]

Sorry if it's been covered already but I have a few questions if anyone can answer or point me towards old posts...

What's the interview/assessment consist of?

Time to command?

Average take home for a new FO?

Typical A340/330 roster?


Many thanks :ok:

[EZY_FR]

EGKK

At the moment, VA are not recruiting, so nobody here can provide you with information regarding the assessment process. It will be difficult to find answers for your other questions unless VA pilots currently rated on the A330/40 read this forum.

[mad_jock]

And if they get cruise pilots it might be all changing anyway

[flying apprentice]

I say there's no sign of expansion and then I get this email from their flying club:

A fifth daily service from London Heathrow to New York JFK
A new daily service from London Heathrow to Detroit offering new connections across North and Central USA such as Cincinnati, New Orleans, Memphis and Indianapolis*
An additional daily service from London Heathrow to Los Angeles
A second daily service during the summer season from London Heathrow to Atlanta
An additional summer seasonal service from London Heathrow to San Francisco flying five times a week
A second daily service during the winter season from London Heathrow to Miami

So this now begs the question...how are they going to service the routes with their current fleet ? I see no new deliveries apart from a 789 due in autumn at some point.

[EGKK.]

Are these 78's replacement or expansion aircraft?

I also recieved that email from the flying club and it kind of made me think they will need some extra crew for this but then I'm also un aware if they have some kin of hold pool with guys waiting to be trained up.

I remember the last time they took on people was back in 2011...it's been a while. End of 2014, beginning of 2015 seems probable for a handful of people to slot in....who knows.

[flying apprentice]

Virgin Atlantic drops Tokyo and Cape Town in favour of US - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/northamerica/usa/11073064/Virgin-Atlantic-drops-Tokyo-and-Cape-Town-in-favour-of-US.html)

No more NRT CPT or BOM.

The 789 is replacing old or in the 346 case under performing aircraft.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

EGKK, they recruited last year mate.

[EGKK.]

last year. ok, thanks.

just have to keep an ear out i guess.

cheers

[Pushkovinator]

I have also heard rumors (quite a while ago) about VS starting a FPP-like cadet program with some of the leading aviation schools throughout the EU (CTC, OAA, and FTE).

If this actually develops from being a rumor to becoming an actual cadet scheme, I would be very excited to apply!

[Holyjoe]

Watch their website......

[go around flaps15]

Dead headed with a few Virgin A340 guys on secondment at Norwegian on the 787.

Top guys and sounds like a very nice place to work.

I really hope they give us Non Rated Boeing guys a shot again.

[ManUtd1999]

So are virgin seriously planning to put cadets into the right hand seat or will they be sent elsewhere to fain experience?

Ryanair are appearing at the Flyer exhibition for the first time soon as well. Almost certainly just a coincidence but, 2/3 years at FR then a guaranteed slot at VS as and when they're available?

I don't see the point of cruise pilots, it's not like they have a large number of ultra-long haul routes a la Cathay Pacific. There can't be that many routes requiring 3 pilots. Just LAX, SFO, LAS, JNB, HKG, PVG? Maybe a couple more but certainly not a lot.

[Smokie]

I have just updated my details on the website but there doesn't seem to be a link to upload my updated CV, have I missed something?

[EZY_FR]

My friend received good info from a current Virgin Atlantic pilot about an upcoming VA cadet scheme. Virgin are intending to launch a new scheme at the Flyer event in November, with the intention of taking on 6 new cadets. After completion of training they should start on either the A330 or the 787.

[Vipersrt10]

The initial screening will be done by a 'flying training establishment' and not by Virgin.


Will be done by CTC, mark my words!

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Drum-roll please .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/virgin-to-train-mpl-students-for-widebody-fleet-405290/

:D

[EZY_FR]

The article has been deleted, what did it say?

[thowmas]

I guess that wasn't meant to be released just yet! Although, yes, I would also be very interested to know what it said...! BVB, can you fill us in on what we missed?:ok:

[Mr-P]

The clue is in the URL....

It was about CTC getting the contract to train 50 mpl students to go straight onto Virgin widebodies.

I'm guessing it was supposed to be announced this Saturday at Heathrow but Flightglobal got ahead of themselves. My post in the other Virgin thread was deleted.

[thowmas]

Yep been following the trail of emerging info about this for a few weeks but was hoping for a few more details... Oh well, guess it's going to have to be a wait until Virgin's talk on Saturday morning! Looking forward to hearing what they have to offer.

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

The article basically said 50 cadets, CTC MPL, training in UK/Arizona. It also said it would open today but nothing so far on CTC site.

From reading Terms and Endearment thread on the subject:

"Yep fully fledged base trained in a real aeroplane First Officers. Fully funded by the the company with 9 year bond and slightly reduced pay until pay point 9 to cover costs then non cadet pay as far as I am aware although might be slightly wrong, but in principle correct.

Sounds like a very old school fully sponsored scheme which should be applauded in my opinion.

The new cadets will be made to feel very welcome because that is what we do internally with any new joiner regardless of background.

The scheme is very small in the big scheme of things and there will always be opportunities for experienced pilots. Not dissimilar to BA in that respect.

The bottom line is cadets recruited on ability and not ability to pay. Gets my vote.

All the best"


Sounds good if you ask me :ok:

[Ironside757]

Opens tomorrow

Virgin Atlantic Future Flyers Programme ? Pilot Training (http://careersuk.virgin-atlantic.com/pilots-and-future-flyers/future-flyers-pilot-training-programme.html)

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

"Future Flyers" makes it sound like a crèche in a departure lounge.

Still, wonder what i'll be doing at 12.02 tomorrow :8

[thowmas]

Opens midnight tonight... exciting stuff!

[captain.weird]

Does Virgin also hire pilots from outside the UK?

[EZY_FR]

Is there any concrete info to show that it really is fully funded?

[Chris the Robot]

Funding-wise, if it is indeed fully funded, I imagine it will depend on how "fully-funded" is defined.

It would be great if it was in the style of the Hamble cadetships back in the 60's and 70's where absolutely everything was paid for, fairly unlikely though.

I imagine that the best possible realistic outcome would be for it to be broadly similar to BA's FPP, where the airline secures the loan but the trainee bears a significant amount of the financial risk involved.

If it were the former, I'd be tempted to throw an application in. If it were the latter I'd get some more experience working in my current industry so if things didn't work out I could probably jump back as a subcontractor.

I imagine all will be revealed in a couple of hours.

[CABUS]

It will be fully funded, even if guys fail the training Virgin will take the hit, I believe the cadets will even be on a salary during their training.

This will pave the way for Virgin to start taking Direct entry turbo prop guys.

Good luck to all who apply.

[FullyFullyReady]

Login | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/virgin-atlantic/about-virgin)

£109k for a 9 year bond with a company in uncertain times. Can't imagine an MPL practising landing 3 times a month will be terribly good value. Not sure about this one or how other airlines would view it in the worst case scenario. As for CTC, par for the course..

[Chris the Robot]

A £109k security bond is required, funded by the applicants, though at least they seem to offer a guarantee to at least a few applicants. Makes it broadly equivalent to the FPP then in my book.

Given there is a 98% pass rate at CTC I'm surprised that for these schemes one can't simply purchase insurance that would cover a course failure, this would make it much more accessible than a security bond. I know there have been cases where airlines get into bother etc. but the recent redeployment of the Monarch MPL folks suggests that certainly for the smaller intakes it is possible to find a position elsewhere if one's sponsor can't take their trainees on. Given the things that have been insured at Lloyd's of London over the years I'd imagine it would be possible. Probably cheaper than losing the interest on £100k plus over a few years as well.

As always, best of luck to those who apply.

EDIT: I now see that they offer a guarantee to few applicants who cannot afford the bond.

[EZY_FR]

They are only offering the guarantee option to a small number of candidates.

[Iver]

BBC article suggests cadets would go to the A330:

Virgin Atlantic trains no-experience pilots in Southampton and Phoenix - BBC News (http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-29824064)

[EZY_FR]

All cadets start off on the A330.

[sammyduke]

I tried clicking on the "apply now" button but it does not work. Does anyone else have this problem?

[thowmas]

sammyduke - Yep same here, it was working earlier, I did start an application then it gave up on me halfway through and appears the link doesn't work anymore... Hopefully it will be back up and running in the morning though.

[funkyt111]

So much for it being a fully funded paid up front cadet scheme! A cadet course based on aptitude rather than bank balance? Salary whilst on the cadet course? Pprunes finest ladies and gents :D

[EZY_FR]

CTC Wings' website appears to have crashed with all the heavy traffic. Just goes to show how competitive it will be.

[InformationAlpha]

Still down?

[EZY_FR]

According to this link, two weeks. Virgin Atlantic launches first airline pilot career programme | Pilot Career News (http://www.pilotcareernews.com/virgin-atlantic-launches-first-airline-pilot-career-programme/)

[GLuis103]

Seems it´s already working, just sent my application :)

[InformationAlpha]

Still down here. I wonder do they have a paper questionnaire? ;)

[EZY_FR]

All I get is a database error.

[thowmas]

Can anyone confirm the amount of cadets they are looking to recruit in this intake? I've seen a few different figures (6...12...50...) floating around here and the web so would be good to hear a definitive.

[EZY_FR]

If you guys have Facebook, it may be worthwhile to head over to CTC's page as they're holding a VS Q&A session.

[EZY_FR]

thowmas - two courses of 6 for 2015. Also they're planning to run it annually.

[Braddersb]

If one is unsuccessful in applying for this Virgin MPL would I be right in thinking that you wouldn't then be able to reapply to CTC for another 6 months or so?

If this is the case then could this potentially prevent you from applying to the BA FPP if it opens up early in 2015?

[newb1112]

From the VA website:
"We know that Virgin Atlantic is a great place to work but the number of applications for our new pilot cadet scheme has been overwhelming. So much so that the website hosted by CTC, the company who are providing the training, has struggled to cope with demand."

It makes me wonder why they set the requirements so low: only 5 GCSEs with Cs in Maths, English and Science, when the Easyjet MPL, Flybe MPL, Cityflyer MPL, Aer Lingus cadet scheme and BA FPP all require A Levels.

I'm not saying that all the candidates called for interview will have only 5 GCSEs, I'm just pointing out they could have cut down on a lot of applications.

The other thing that strikes me as strange is how widely publicised this scheme is... it's all over the news. Surely any prospective future A330 F/O worth his salt would already be in touch with the current cadet recruitment scene and be able to make his way to the CTC website without the BBC, national newspapers and radio telling him to do so?

Or perhaps this is one of those schemes not aimed at those who have ever had the thrill of flight in a PA28 or C150, know what a swept wing is or how a jet engine works... but for someone who couldn't find anything to do with their degree or got bored of accounting. Half of my friends are applying and most of them wouldn't know what an A330 was if it hit them in the face.

Maybe I'm just bitter because it know that there are going to be thousands and thousands of applicants, possibly in the tens, and I know I don't stand a snowballs chance in hell. Nevertheless CTC will still pinch my hard earned £250 if I'm lucky enough to be called down to Dibden.

[Halfwayback]

a quote from the Head of Training Standards, Virgin Atlantic

You may find it answers some of your queries


Thank you for your comments. I understand that this can me an emotive subject but I can assure you that this is not pilots on the cheap as Virgin are going to invest in their development with us.


A lot of work has gone on over the last 18 months to be at a stage to launch and I am very excited and proud to be part of it.


To just put minds at rest about future DEP recruitment please find below 2 points:




1/ We envisage future recruitment will continue to include significant numbers of experienced pilots via our existing 3,000 hr application routes. With almost half of our pilot workforce expected to retire within the next 15 years, there will be opportunity via both the cadet route and via the conventional experienced pilot recruitment route, and we’re also looking in the longer-term to offer an intermediate programme between the two.



2/ First pilots from the Future Pilot programme are expected to commence line flying with us in 2017. We have recently updated the 10 candidates in our pilot hold pool that we do not expect to undertake recruitment in 2015 (although there will be some internal command promotions) as a result of the change in mix of our route network between flights requiring two and three pilot complements. However, we expect that we will be recruiting in early 2016 – ahead of the first pilots from our Future Pilot programme arriving – and will afford priority at that time to those candidates currently in our hold pool. It’s also likely that we’ll invite further external applications from pilots meeting our criteria of 3,000 hrs including 1,000 hrs on a commercial jet transport in excess of 15 tonnes MTOW


Thank you


Nathan
Training Standards Manager
Virgin Atlantic

[BAe 146-100]

I think its safe to say the ones who are successful will be of similar profile to BA's cadets, regardless of the minimum educational requirement. So anyone who has just the bare minimum or your bog standard A level's don't think you will be flying a A330 anytime soon.

Its a very clever marketing ploy by Virgin, by putting the requirements so low they have attracted a lot of media attention which is free publicity. The negative is that they have had every Tom Dick and Harry applying for it thus crashing the website, but still Branson never misses a trick, it's great publicity.

[funkyt111]

Half of my friends are applying and most of them wouldn't know what an A330 was if it hit them in the face.

I hate this. This was my number one concern when I seen it on the bbc and facebook etc. At least half of the applicants if not more will be people that have thought "That sounds cool, I'm going to apply" without knowing bugger all about aircraft or about what being a pilot entails. However, I do think these people will be found out. Firstly, there's the £250 assessment fee + travel and hotel expenses etc which they are probably not aware of. That will deter a good amount of time wasters from attending. Then there's the application itself. The quality of an application can be a reflection of ones desire to become an airline pilot. Finally there's the interview and other tests. CTC aren't idiots and they should be able to distinguish between the applicants that have serious motivation and the one's that don't via the interview itself.

[Anunaki]

and we’re also looking in the longer-term to offer an intermediate programme between the two.

250hrs to be considered from CTC wings/ATP pool perhaps?

[flying apprentice]

2/ First pilots from the Future Pilot programme are expected to commence line flying with us in 2017.

They'll be working for 'Delta UK' then ?

For a company that values loyalty so much, why aren't they giving their own staff who work tirelessly in non-flying jobs but have frozen ATPLs a look in ? I know many cabin crew and ground staff who aren't happy about this.

Don't believe the spin. Pilots on the cheap.

[High-higher]

Ohhhh dear, I bet some jobs have been lost Oxford, how could they let this one slip through the net :}

[Officer Kite]

From what I can see, CTC runs the UK cadet pilot scene, they have easyjet, BA, monarch, Qatar airways, FlyBe and now Virgin as well as many others all wrapped up. Is this a good thing ? I don't know, but I'd be worried if I was in OAA.

[High-higher]

BAe 146, even the BA scheme is not as cut throat as you may think...

I convinced a friend of mine to apply the very first time around in 2011, he couldn't decide on a career. He knew bugger all about the industry and BA, no degree and BBC at A-level, the bare minimum.

He did extremely well on the aptitude tests, worked his butt off learning about BA and the industry for the interviews and group tasks, and he has probably grown to love aviation even more than I do...

Oh, he also just started on line on the A320 out of LHR, and now has the job which I so desperately want...Funny world :8

I will admit, from what I have heard he is a rare example of one getting through with such qualifications, but it's possible if you put the work in and exude the passion.

[flying apprentice]

Ohhhh dear, I bet some jobs have been lost Oxford, how could they let this one slip through the net


Especially with it being right next door to Beardy’s house !!

The cadets could have stayed with him to keep costs down !

[rogerg]

Ohhhh dear, I bet some jobs have been lost Oxford, how could they let this one slip through the net
As this is a MPL scheme they could not get involved as they have too much work on at the moment. MPL instructors are in short supply as you need an instructors rating and multi pilot airline experience.

[ESQU]

I had a good laugh at the CTC representative on BBC Breakfast this morning chucking out the usual flying school propaganda pending pilot shortage spiel and advertising the Virgin MPL scheme. He omitted to mention the £109000 payment.

The only pilot shortage will be for flying instructors!

[V1_Rotate_]

stu-baylis- Were the application essay questions found within the main application or were they sent to you after submitting the first part? I've managed to access the application page but I'm unable to find any essay questions!

Thanks

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

V1

They spring up after proceeding through all your previous flying experience. There is no separate tab for them though as with the other sections. IMO poor site design. :}

[felixflyer]

So anyone qualified beyond PPL level is excluded. Someone with first time passes cannot apply. An MPL & 330 rating for £110,000 :sad:

Good luck to all that apply but this is just further proof that the job of first officer has become just a matter of putting anyone in the seat whilst creating an extra income stream.

To allow a guy from CTC to go around talking about pilot shortages on BBC is also not on. This was nothing short of advertising. If there were a pilot shortage then all virgin has to do is open up recruitment offering a bonded A330 rating and they would be inundated with applications from experienced FO's.

Good luck with you MPL pilot up front when the s@#t hits the fan and he is left to sort it. Lets hope the skipper has some good handling experience.

[flying apprentice]

What are the greatest opportunities facing VAA / how can you contribute to them?

They are getting cheap pilots and I am one of them :O

[dis80786]

Being presumptuous, the new cadets will join as second officers/cruise pilots, no? And regardless of that fact, what does this mean for F/O's from other companies who already have a type-rating and experience looking to work for Virgin? Is that door now shut?

[InformationAlpha]

Still down for some?

[dis80786]

Isn't it incredible how simply scrolling up answers most questions! And I quote: '1/ We envisage future recruitment will continue to include significant numbers of experienced pilots via our existing 3,000 hr application routes. With almost half of our pilot workforce expected to retire within the next 15 years, there will be opportunity via both the cadet route and via the conventional experienced pilot recruitment route, and we’re also looking in the longer-term to offer an intermediate programme between the two.' I apologise. I guess I've failed selection!

[flyboy1818]

This is the result and reality of all these CTC schemes:

Documentary: Becoming a Pilot - The Inside Story - YouTube

[pakythepilot]

I fully understand who is going to apply and get a chance to step into his/her career dream, better do a mpl than funding a training with no guarantees at the end. What I don't get is which game the CAA is playing. Those fellows will end up flying an A330 along intercontinental route with more or less 3 real t/o and landing per month and 98% of cruise time with autopilot on. What kind of experience are going to build with that? I could accept the Flybe MPL because Flybe cadets were going to fly turboprop aircraft into :mad: weather and awful approaches and I could even partly understand the Easyjet one, still 4 legs to fly per day and a wide range of airports with different types of approach where they can build up a quite amount of skills on, but the virgin one is just a shame of a program. It's awful to say but I am awaiting the first occasion where a MPL cadet is going to prove his/her skills during an emergency situation. Said that good luck for who is going to apply.

[InformationAlpha]

'Please enter the earliest available date you could start training?'
How did you go about this one?

[Laurapintas]

Hey there
Does anybody know when the selection days at CTC are expected to start? Will it be possible for the candidate to choose the date?
Thanks

[reeko]

Does anyone know if the BBVA maximum amounts have changed from previous years?

I originally understood it as the maximum they could lend is 60% of property value less mortgage. I.e. Property value £100k mortgage of £20k = £80k. Max amount (60%) then = £48?

Now, when looking at their site I can't find that statement.

[thowmas]

InformationAlpha - I think what you see is what you get with that one!? I guess depends on your job notice period, current commitments etc... Definitley no trick to this one!

[EZY_FR]

For those who have submitted their applications, how many words were required for the essay questions? I am still waiting to hear back from one of my references so I would like to make the best use of my time.

[sammyduke]

Hey everyone,

I would also like to apply for the Programme, but I'm unsure how to answer the question about driving offences. A few months ago I drove a car in Germany while exceeding the permitted alcohol limit.. Should I write this down or should I refrain from sending the application at all?

Would be grateful for any advice!

[Goose PR]

Hey guys,

It's just me or the part where they offer a guarantee to few applicants who cannot afford the bond is now missing? :confused:

[Akrapovic]

A few months ago I drove a car in Germany while exceeding the permitted alcohol limit

You'll be alright as you mentioned it was in another country . . . :rolleyes:

[Danny.]

Personally I would tell them about it. What's the worst that could happen? Yes They might turn your application down because you have been honest or they might see your honesty as a quality they want in a pilot working for their company and take you on. A far worse scenario would be that they accept you and you get you excited, turn your life upside down in preparation for starting the course only to find it has shown up once they perform a background check on you and see that you haven't been honest and cancel your offer?
In any job interview etc honesty is always the best policy

Good luck with the application

[G-F0RC3]

Given how devoid of personality and life experience most of the cadets taken on by CTC are, I can only feel sorry for the captains and CC who have to spend 3-4 days in their company.

That's a bit harsh don't you think?

I would also like to apply for the Programme, but I'm unsure how to answer the question about driving offences. A few months ago I drove a car in Germany while exceeding the permitted alcohol limit.. Should I write this down or should I refrain from sending the application at all?

Would be grateful for any advice!

I've got some advice; don't drink and drive!

[sammyduke]

Personally I would tell them about it. What's the worst that could happen? Yes They might turn your application down because you have been honest or they might see your honesty as a quality they want in a pilot working for their company and take you on. A far worse scenario would be that they accept you and you get you excited, turn your life upside down in preparation for starting the course only to find it has shown up once they perform a background check on you and see that you haven't been honest and cancel your offer?
In any job interview etc honesty is always the best policy

Good luck with the application


Thank you very much!

As I would also like to apply for the BAFPP in 2015:

Does British Airways ask questions like these as well? Isn't it possible that information given to Virgin could be passed on to British Airways via CTC?

[Monarch580]

Sammyduke - if you are successful in your application with any UK airline, you will need to provide CRCs from all the countries you have lived in.

For example I lived in France for 3 years and therefore to obtain an airside pass I had to provide a British CRC and a French "Bulletin casier judiciaire numéro 3".

Think twice about lying or "omitting" information on any application form as if you are found out; lying is gross misconduct thus a sackable offence.

[tcm1707]

Anyone know when the application deadline is?

[tobster911]

Just been informed I have not been selected. Well Damn.

[captain.weird]

Any other one who got a letter from CTC?

[Manulks]

Hey guys!

does anyone know the best way to answer this question "what do you believe to be the greatest opportunities facing Virgin Atlantic currently? What can you contribute to their business? " :sad:

[clear prop!!!]

:rolleyes:Sammyduke, I can only assume you are having a laugh, if you’re not,.. at the risk of sounding like a sanctimonious git, your drink driving offence is, in my opinion, a serious problem.

Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy a drink,( indeed several), like most of us, but your decision to get into a car, over the limit, will seriously be a huge barrier to a commercial flying career.

If you feel you are OK to drive over the limit, would you not, if the occasion arose, feel the same about getting into an aircraft where the limit is only 20mg?

Sorry mate, my vote would be to have you nowhere near my right hand seat, and, as a training Captain, occasionally sitting on selection panels, you would get a serious no vote.

Nothing personal, and we all make mistakes, but you made the wrong one for this industry.

[KidInk]

Just applied (Fingers crossed), does anyone know how long it takes to hear back usually?

Thanks

[RedMinx]

Sammyduke a drink driving offence may not only limit your chances of obtaining an airside ID after a background check, it may also limit your prospects of obtaining a U.S. visa. As Virgin predominantly fly to the U.S. this would make it impossible for you to be considered for employment - sorry to break the news.......

[High-higher]

Remember you'll also need Visa approval for the large part of the training that takes place in Arizona...

[EZY_FR]

Hi Manulks! Welcome to the wonderful world of pprune, we don't bite!

Regarding your question, nobody on this forum can tell you how to approach such a question. Everyone is competing for very few places and if anyone were to mention what to do or any tips, then that will potentially give others an advantage, maybe even disqualifying themselves. This will apply to all airline schemes, so try to avoid asking such questions here in the future. :)

[tobster911]

In response to the time frame to hear back etc, I was informed yesterday after applying on Thursday. Very disappointed, I must admit, but, I guess that's life.

Good luck

[VLT_029]

tobster911, did you receive an email reply or did you log on to the CTC application to find out?

[almon1298]

Im not entirely clear on the finance of this program. Can anyone explain to me what, in real terms, I need to have in the bank (by means of a loan or savings) to get through this program if successful?


My understanding is that we need to at the very least raise £69k security deposit. I also remember seeing something about MPL Fees (£20k, £19k payments). When you click the finance tab on the CTC website it directs you to the Easy MPL section.

[VLT_029]

I was under the impression that you need a security bond of £109k.

Where did you read £69k. Must have missed something.

[EZY_FR]

You need a security bond of £109K, plus additional costs for food, social costs, insurance, etc. The £69K is the bond that will be repaid to you for the EZY scheme, for the VS scheme the entire £109K is repaid to you.

[almon1298]

ok, thanks. So basically i need to find £109k somehow to get in the door and then they give me it back. Seems fair but not easy to raise £109k even if you're going to get it all back you know. How do ctc cadets normally go about this? BBVA? Mum and dad?

[ManUtd1999]

BBVA is the usual route, which requires security, usually in the form of a house. CTC claim that Virgin are prepared to sponsor a select few "exceptional candidates" and guarantee the loan for them, like BA do. It's all very vague and nobody seems to know much about it, CTC included :ugh:

Do you have to self-sponsor if you can (with Ba you don't)? What about if you can't raise the funds but your parents could, would Virgin help then? Does selection mean Virgin will help out, or could they turn round and refuse?

Maybe somebody who went to the Flyer event knows a bit more?

[reeko]

Tobster911, if you don't mind me asking what flying experience do you have.

It seems very odd to be declined so early?

[EZY_FR]

For those who have heard back, did you submit your essay question answers?

[Cowboy1]

The CTC site mentions the Skills Funding Agency as an option for funding the 106k security bond. Does anyone know much about this? Would they fund the full amount? Sounds just like a student loan to me, from the SFA website, but can't find a maximum cap anywhere? Would be great if they do, as would remove need to secure on the house.

Also, does anyone know if age would be an issue. Only 35, but likely to be slightly older than some other candidates. Still a 30 year career ahead of me! But do you think that would be an issue?

And assume there would be no salary paid during the 18 month training period?

Thanks!

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Does anyone have any clue as to when the next stage will be? Pre or post Christmas? Thinking about time off is all...

(No I haven't heard back...yet)

[almon1298]

just got my thanks but no thanks email too. My experience is ppl, 94hrs TT, no atpl exams passed. Degree. Age 26. Sucks! IM focusing on the COMMAND program now. Fed up with these cadet schemes for the moment.

[InformationAlpha]

Do you think this indicates the weight of the essay questions?

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

I cant see that some poor sod at CTC has to sit and read 600 words from each application. My guess is that all applications are screened by a computer program that looks for key words and phrases. Then if you pass the criteria in all the other sections (education, age, fly experience etc) and have the right key phrases it puts your application through. Then only ones that meet the right criteria are then read.

[onthekeys]

Hi all

Thought I would start a thread for the program so we can all chat with each other, I have put my application in today and hoping for a positive answer. Does anyone know what the time frame was for them to get back to you?

Also, so far reading the other thread it seems that there have been many "thanks but no thanks" from them, wondering if anyone had managed to get through to the next part yet.

Best of luck to everyone else who applies.

[EZY_FR]

How soon after submitting the initial application form did you receive the essay questions from CTC? I sent mine away two days ago and I haven't received anything yet.

[onthekeys]

Hi allot my application in today and hoping for the best. Wondered if anyone on here had had a positive reply from them yet?

Good luck to all

[d.nyathi]

hi guys just wondering if anyones been accepted yet, my application for some reason is "ON HOLD" should i be worried

[DS4]

Just received my positive e-mail for the next stage of the application process, just wondering what dates other people have been given for the assessment day at CTC?

[Danny.]

Has anyone heard anything back from their application? I haven't yet. If anyone does it would be great if you could let us know!

I am checking mine daily for any progress but my phase one status is "awaiting selection". Hopefully I will hear something soon either way it would be nice to know the outcome.

I do however remember when I applied for the icp route 4 years ago that I had to call them to find out what was going on. When I did they said there had been an error with the system and it was purely due to the fact that I had put a start date so far away in the future.

Fingers crossed for everyone applying :ok:

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Just seen on the FB Q&A that they will be taking 200+ through to the next stage from "many thousands". Fans of maths; that's a maximum of 20% :ok:

And apparently all the applications are read by a human. :eek:

[Cowboy1]

On the facebook session they also seemed to confirm that you would be on £27k plus what I assume would only be inflation level yearly increases for the seven years, and only go on to normal pay scales once the seven years was up. Is that standard?

Does anyone know what the starting salary is for the BA round and whether you would get pay increases in line with increased experience?

This is the thread:

"George Lamb I've heard the starting salary for successful trainees will be around £27,000. I understand this is significantly lower than the £65,000 direct F/O salary. Why is this and will FFP pilots be on a separate pay scale to direct entry pilots?
CTC Aviation George. Our Direct Entry Pilots have a minimum of 3000 hours (on average over 4000) this means that they have been flying for 5 years or more, some have been Captains or even Training Captains. The salary has been aligned with experience and also the successful applicants get their training paid. Hope this helps explain. Many thanks
George Lamb Thanks for the response, but would FFP pilots ultimately earn the same as those of with equivalent hours as a direct entry pilot? so 3000/4000 hours would lead to a similar £65,000 wage. For further understanding, say a successful FFP flew 3000 hours for Virgin over x amount of time. If a DEP joined with 3000 hours at the same time the FEP reached 3000 hours, would they be on equivalent wages/pay scale? Thanks.
CTC Aviation Hi George. Once the 7 years are complete and the bond repaid the pilot will move over to the normal pay scales
George Lamb Thanks for the reply CTC Aviation. Sorry to be a bother but I just wanted to iron things out. Would the FFP receive any salary increase in those 7 years?
CTC Aviation Hi George. Yes there are incremental pay rises every year"

[Jkelly747]

Hey DS4,

What date have you been given for your ctc assessment? I have yet to receive a reply regarding my application but was just curious as to roughly when the assessments are taking place.

Thanks

[Gavinlewis01]

Just received my thanks but no thanks e-mail, nevermind. Just to update you all recent figures from CTC today, Virgin stated that:

a. So far there are around 6000 applicants
b. 300..ish would be passed through to the next stage (assesment centre)
c. 100..ish would be selected for the final assesment day with Virgin
d. 12 jobs available at the end, leaves a 0.2% chance of success!

Apologies, if everybody is already aware of the current statistics.

[Danny.]

I just got the sorry but not thanks email too!!! It's a shame, but never mind onwards and upwards as they say.
Looks like the odds are getting slightly better for those still in the game
The statistics show just how fierce the competition is and as always I wish everyone with applications still active the best of luck
Danny.

[Captainblue83]

Just got my email saying I'm through to selection @ Dibden!
Not bad considering these crazy stats about the amount of applications.

[onthekeys]

Hi all

What time frame did it take them to get back to you with a yes or no answer, I put my application in last Wednesday AM and still haven't heard anything back from them. On the ctc portal it still says that it is "awaiting selection"

Would anyone recommend giving them a call or just leave it until they get in touch with me

Thanks

[average-punter]

It seems that this scheme is far more competitive than the BA FPP. Two years ago there were around 4000 applicants for 75 spaces. Roughly a 2% chance compared with Virgin's 0.2%.

I have to say I'm fairly surprised as BA say that they will guarantee the loan for anyone who requires it but this seems a grey area with Virgin.

[Jkelly747]

Congrats on making it to Dibden Captainblue,

What date are you attending?

[cheerup]

Ahh I applied as soon as this opened and still nothing, I'm hoping that's a good sign. I'm wearing out my phone battery checking my e-mails every 5 minutes! When did you guys who have heard already send your applications in?

[DS4]

Jkelly747:

The first assessment day available is the 17th November. I spoke to CTC and they said they will be releasing a new date almost every week because of the amount of applicants. Wouldn't imagine there could be too many though because the final interview (if you pass through CTC) directly with Virgin start in January 2015.

thowmas:

Completed my application as soon as I heard it was open, 30th October I believe it was.

[reeko]

Captainblue83, well done.

What are the dates available?

[VSsenior]

My son put his application in a week ago and still hasn't heard back from them yet.

Does anyone have a time frame that they got back to you in with an answer

[Captainblue83]

Next Monday and Tuesday I believe.

[Captainblue83]

@jKelly747
I haven't chosen one yet. Need to sort out some logistics first.

For the record- I submitted my application on 31st October and got my outcome today. So around 10 days later.

[cheerup]

Positive email came through today finally! Excited and nervous, booked in for Monday which suddenly seems very close. Hopefully see some of you there!

[gbotley]

@cheerup,

How long ago did you apply?

I don't envy the poor selection team with this mountain of a task. It would seem to be they are climbing to the top it and then realise theres another mountain after that one with this weeks applicants.

I applied last Monday. Yet to hear a yay or nay. I'm praying that no news is good news.

[cheerup]

@gbotley I applied on 31st October so it's been a wee bit of a wait. My application changed to on hold this afternoon and then to passed within an hour of that (I was checking it quite a lot!). Good luck!

[AudiS4v8]

Dear XXXXXX

Thank you for your application to the Virgin Future Flyers MPL programme.

Following a careful review of your application, we regret to advise you that you do not meet the profile in all areas for the above programme and we are therefore unable to progress your application to the next stage. I HAVE PPL HOURS, A MEDICAL DEGREE, GCSE'S AND A-LEVELS!!! IM ALSO 22 SO NOT THAT OLD!:mad:

Due to the large volume of applications we are currently managing, we are unable to provide you with any feedback relating to your application and will therefore be unable to respond to any email or telephone correspondence in relation to Virgin Future Flyers programme.

Whilst you have not been shortlisted for the next stage of selection for the Virgin Future Flyers programme, we would like to inform you that you may be eligible to pursue flight training with CTC Aviation through an alternative programme. We therefore recommend that you seriously consider applying and visit our website for more information. Airline Pilot Training | Flight Training UK | Cadet Pilot Training | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com)

Thank you again for the time you have given to your Virgin Future Flyers application and good luck in pursuing any future applications with CTC Aviation.

Regards,

CTC WINGS Selection

Don't worry everyone. At least we can say we tried our best until next time. I'm going to finish my PPL and go modular, rape RyanAir for a bit and then mve to another airline:p

[wazzer1]

I've been on hold for over six hours now - I'm starting to get a little anxious.:hmm:

[gbotley]

I'm sure that means good news..

When did you apply out of interest?

[Rupert369]

Mine's been on hold for around 5 days now, wazzer1, so don't worry!

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Dear XXXXXX

Thank you for your application to the Virgin Future Flyers MPL programme.

Following a careful review of your application, we regret to advise you that you do not meet the profile in all areas for the above programme and we are therefore unable to progress your application to the next stage. I HAVE PPL HOURS, A MEDICAL DEGREE, GCSE'S AND A-LEVELS!!! IM ALSO 22 SO NOT THAT OLD!

Due to the large volume of applications we are currently managing, we are unable to provide you with any feedback relating to your application and will therefore be unable to respond to any email or telephone correspondence in relation to Virgin Future Flyers programme.

Whilst you have not been shortlisted for the next stage of selection for the Virgin Future Flyers programme, we would like to inform you that you may be eligible to pursue flight training with CTC Aviation through an alternative programme. We therefore recommend that you seriously consider applying and visit our website for more information. Airline Pilot Training | Flight Training UK | Cadet Pilot Training | CTC Wings

Thank you again for the time you have given to your Virgin Future Flyers application and good luck in pursuing any future applications with CTC Aviation.

Regards,

CTC WINGS Selection

Don't worry everyone. At least we can say we tried our best until next time. I'm going to finish my PPL and go modular, rape RyanAir for a bit and then mve to another airline

At least you don't have to fork out for a trip to Dibden now. A lot of my mates have been put off applying because of the "selection fee". Charging £250 to each candidate to "cover costs" surmounts to daylight robbery.

BVB, still awaiting selection :E

[InformationAlpha]

How can you have a medical degree if you are only 22?...
I could be wrong and it would be useful information to know, but does a medical degree not take 5 years (at least) to complete...

[Bastardeux]

How can you have a medical degree if you are only 22?...
I could be wrong and it would be useful information to know, but does a medical degree not take 5 years (at least) to complete...


My thoughts exactly. It's clear anyway that academic achievement isn't a huge factor in the selection criteria or they would at least demand A-levels...not surprising considering Branson's background. I would imagine your rejection is based more on a lack of relevant work experience; perhaps lacking imagination in the essay questions; or just a lack of any exciting experiences outside of academia (can you demonstrate strong leadership and teamwork?). One of the biggest criteria in the RAF selection is sense of adventure, for example, and service knowledge & current affairs are just as important.

[VLT_029]

Does anyone know if the 2 referees have been contacted as part of the selection process?

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Does anyone know if the 2 referees have been contacted as part of the selection process?

I asked this question to CTC last week. They said they are only contacted once you are selected for the final 12:

"Dear Baron,

Thank you for your email.

CTC Aviation will not contact any referees until an offer of training has been made.

Kind Regards

CTC Selection"

[Ian_Wannabe]

I got the no thanks email yesterday unfortunately so it wasn't meant to be this time.

I would love to have an insight with regards to what they are looking for though. I read the Virgin ethos with this scheme is that they don't look for people who have the academia of a rocket scientist and try to concentrate on people that have been getting involved in aviation all their life.

I have A Levels and a vocational diploma in airline and airport operations, a PPL and all of my jobs since leaving education have been in a handling agent across two different airports over 8 years. I'm now even at management level which shows leadership.... But I didn't get past the first phase.

I'd really love an insight so I can adapt my approach for future programmes if anyone is in the know - please feel free to PM if you can!

[aceridgey]

Remember the deadline guys is 16th November.

I am submitting my application tonight.

[AudiS4v8]

Medical Degree relating to the field as a whole. I have a degree in Biomedical Sciences. Tons of work experiences working in law firms and hospitals. I also have employment dating back to when I was 15 and have worked since then. Examples include, Olympics, Paintballing, Assistant Manager, Freelance Designer, Teaching Assistant in a year at a school with disabilities and another year at a school with no disabilities. I have a lot more experience... I read someone with a degree with a PPL and 99 hours was also rejected. Maybe they are selecting people who are fresh from A-levels and want the youngest they can get! I pretty much aced the questions (my friend is a pilot who also said they were very strong answers!)

[Danny.]

I'm confused about the whole process. If they are rejecting people who have got high qualifications on what basis are they making their selection? Unless their computer system looks for key words in the essays? It is a shame that they do not tell you where you went wrong. It would be great to know this so that we can all make the changes that will strengthen our future applications.

To all those going next week I hope you get chance to ask why they chose you. If it where me I would be interested to know why I had stood out against the many thousands of applicants....it could be a good ego boost!!!

[LadyL2013]

I guess it's the V Factor.

In the BA FPP they said some applications just gave off a certain je ne sais quoi that they were looking for. Plenty of people with experience and great qualifications got rejected and plenty got through. I presume it's the same this time.

[flying apprentice]

It's a money making scheme

If they were truly interested in those with 'V factor' they surely would've been better off rewarding the loyalty of the numerous staff who already work at the company and have frozen ATPLs first. Then recruited fresh newbies after.

[Captainblue83]

@AudiS4v8


I'm 31 mate and got through. So this theory of fresh A-level candidates couldn't be further from the reality. I read somewhere that some of the application is scanned for certain criteria by screening software, but the answers to the questions are read by a human who ultimately make the decision.

[funkyt111]

I'm pretty sure that Virgin are rejecting anybody with MORE than a PPL. A PPL equates to around 45 hours? I think people with 60-70 hours are automatically being rejected.

I'm 27 have GCSE's, A levels and also a degree in Aviation Tech and I was invited. I'm a glider pilot and very close to going solo.

I was invited to the interview stage. The essay questions do carry a lot of weight. I assume any grammatical errors AT ALL would rule an applicant out. CTC confirmed via their facebook page during a Q&A session that ALL applications are read by a real person and not a computer.

I hope this helps.

[GetTheQRH]

After tweaking my essay questions about 34269342 times, I finally threw caution to the wind and pressed submit today - I don't think I can cope with all the suspense!

Having spoke to CTC over the weekend, I can confirm that an automated system ONLY checks for simple things (i.e that you are at least 18 on April 31st 2015, you are within the height limits etc.). I assume that it automatically throws away applications with data outside of these parameters. The Essay questions are the main focus for deciding who get's put through based upon a scoring system that is applied by the member of the selection team reading your responses.

Many people being rejected seem to be saying "but wait... I exceed the criteria?!" It has been made really clear by both CTC and Virgin that this is a competition based selection, not criteria based. If it was simply criteria based (considering it only asks for GCSEs) then I could guarantee that pretty much 99% of those that have applied would need to be put through to the next phase. Instead, as long as you meet the most basic requirements, we are competing against each other based upon our ability to compose a passionate argument, our ability to express a competency story, and our ability to demonstrate why we're the "right stuff" for the job. A degree is not a 'free pass' into a job, simply because you have it. Heck, i've only got GCSEs and i'm able to see that this is the case.

Hope this helps at all - and good luck to all me fellow candidates! :)

[Rupert369]

My application status has been 'On Hold' for over a week now. Is anyone else in this position?

I'm just a bit concerned it might have slipped the net somehow!

[InformationAlpha]

My application status hasn't changed from, 'Your application has been submitted to the selection team.' Does anyone else have this same message or does yours say something different?

[gbotley]

InformationAlpha,


I applied on the 1st November and am still in that stage.


I wouldn't worry too much. They've got a ton of applicants to get through. :-)


Whether they're processing them in date order, or another logic, i'm not sure.

[Jkelly747]

Anybody else heading to Dibden on the 24th of November? :ooh:

[Danny.]

Ashb - I think you have looked at it from the wrong angle, people where trying to establish whether it was the case that applicants with better academic results had been selected over them. At least that is what I was trying to do.

I personally don't think anyone with a degree see it as a "free pass" in to any career, especially not if it is in a totally unrelated field.
I don't have a degree but when I do I would never adopt that mentality, those who do I think are sadly mistaken. In life you get where you do by hard work and merit not arrogance like that.

Thank you for clarifying that it is not my academic achievements which lost me the opportunity and confirming the area of weakness on which I have to work. I did try to phone CTC to see if this was the case but it kept going to a voicemail system - the person listening on the other end must be sick of hearing my name and number by know.

To all successful applicants you should be proud you have gotten this far!!! Good luck with stage 2 and 3, I wish you all the best.

Let us know the outcome either way as it would be great to hear of some fellow forum members getting this opportunity.

[onthekeys]

Hi all

I out my application in on wednesday 5th and I'm still waiting for a reply, seems that most people are getting replies within a week to 10 days. Curious to see if anyone else has been waiting as long or longer than I have for a reply.

[gbotley]

I applied on the 3rd and am still awaiting selection. I would imagine that 2-3 weeks would be a reasonable wait limit. Having to narrow down circa 10k applicants isn't easy in the short space they have. Don't envy them at all. On the plus side, if you've got to this date, your application has passed initial screening and is awaiting a human to read the essay questions.

Good luck, fingers crossed for us both eh!

[mac20]

I applied on Monday 3rd and I've still heard nothing. I wouldn’t worry, 7000 applicants apparently.

[SkyStreaker]

I put in my application as soon as the server went live and heard back within a few days that I had made it through.

Fabulous! I thought, a solid chance to chase that awesome dream.

To give you context, I am not your average applicant. I have 'ok' grades and no degree. I do, however have a serious wealth of leadership, critical incident and conflict resolution experience. The one thing I was really bad at in my student years was - money. Through silly life choices I put myself into a veritable black hole of finance taking me over a decade to fight my way out of. So now, I want to know exactly what I am letting myself in for first.

This is where I urge caution. This recruitment campaign is not as rosey as it sounds. You must bear in mind both Virgin & CTC are Businesses...the purpose of their existence is to make profit for shareholders and owners.

I did a fair bit of digging around - looking into the fine print. Like many of you (I presume) I don't have a spare £119k rocking around in spare change behind the sofa. I do however, own my own home on a mortgage, I have a family, overheads and financial commitments. So the funding was a very VERY important part of this decision for me.

Here is the 'recommended' BBVA finance package;

Application fees £1900 (Non returnable of course).

Security Bond £109,000.

Subsistence allowance for 2 years £10,000.

Total Loan Amount = £119,000

Interest total is 4.1% VARIABLE over 10 YEARS.

Total Cost of Finance Approx. £26,257.70 - not too bad, I can live with that.

Now add 2 years of no income (Not a problem if you're not employed anyway, but for me a big deal)

So - by these numbers - you will exit training school with a deficit of at LEAST £145,257.70. (IF you exit training school successfully - if not you are in serious financial doo doo, because hey...life sometimes chucks big stinking lemons at you)

Virgin will NOT pay any interest accumulated - only the security bond over the next 7 years.

Now the Critical bit - the red letters. The small print says "3% over Bank of England base rate" and in very little letters says "Variable".

Now that bit scares me. Why? We have seen a historically low interest rate over the last few years, great for people with loans and mortgages - bad for savers.

That won't stay like that, and with the change in economic climate, and the BoE indicating that rates WILL go up in the near future - that 'Variable' element makes a HUGE difference. The clincher is, they have 10 Years of your finance agreement to creep that rate up.

For arguments sake, lets presume the worst and wack up that rate...remember it was only a couple of generations ago that it hit around 16%...

Just a 5% difference changes your overall cost from £26,270 to £60,666 - an apt number (Of course it depends when and how much you have left to pay).

You can't even pay it off early without penalties being imposed.

I am in no way saying don't do it - I am saying make sure that the numbers work out for you - that you are seriously comfortable to take that huge financial commitment on, and ultimately risking either your, or your parents home in the process.

Hey, if you don't get VAA - there's always the CTC Wings programme! :eek:

[GetTheQRH]

SkyStreaker could you just clarify what you mean by the Application fees? Also, from what i've read I think they do let you pay your loan off early without being penalised.

[Rupert369]

@SkyStreaker - thanks for such an excellent and informative post.

One quick question - do your interest calculations account for the fact that the loan will be repaid at c. £15k per annum from year 3?

[VLT_029]

Has anyone's application been "ON HOLD" for a while and then got a positive reply?

[Airbus Airhead]

I applied on the 2nd and still haven't heard anything!! I've been checking my junk mail for the past 2 weeks as well! Lets hope I have not been forgotten!

[SkyStreaker]

Hi there Rupert369 - in short, No it does not take into account year 3 earnings. They reflect the amount of deficit you carry on leaving training school and begin line training. If it really is c. £15k that makes things a little more bearable but still unsustainable for someone like me as technically being on zero pay for 2 years means I will be a further £120k down overall (taking into account pay, pension perks, mortgage and financial commitments...I'm not trying to brag - just trying to add context!)

Which brings me nicely into my second answer.

Ashb - you are right, I checked again and it states quite clearly there are no early termination fees - I shall eat humble pie, although if you find a spare £100k to pay off that loan amount tell me how the heck you did it please! There are a number of fees associated with arranging the finance agreement amounting to £1900 - here is the link to the BBVA page detailing the generic terms.

United Kingdom - Personal Banking - Pilot training loans (http://www.bbvauk.com/TLEU/tleu/jsp/uk/ing/pusted/pilot/index.jsp)

Also, there is a really odd line at the bottom in bold letters saying

"CHANGES IN THE EXCHANGE RATE MAY INCREASE THE STERLING EQUIVALENT OF YOUR DEBT."

This will need clarification if anyone has any take on this.

Next, you will have to contend with the fact that they will only lend to 60% LTV...putting the minimum house value to secure this loan at over £198,000 (and out of the reach of most 18-25 year olds...and plenty of those who are older...) So best you buy some nice crimbo pressies for whomever you are going to be buttering up.

It's a nice chunk of revenue for CTC though isn't it? Over 7000 applicants paying £245 each pass or fail for 12 places (£1.71 million :eek:) Those poor unfortunates who fail the VAA selection at stage 3 will be offered a non-sponsorship course...let me just have a think about that one.

So in short - best of luck to anyone going for this - until a more fair and less elitist method of entry comes about, this is SkyStreaker, Out. :*

[SkyStreaker]

Rupert369 - I think I read your question slightly wrong there.

If you mean did that interest calculation include the fact that it is being repaid at £15k per annum, then yes it does.

[RedMinx]

Anyone else still have 'awaiting selection' ? Suspense is killing me !!!

[juniour jetset]

Skystreaker

Surely not all 7000 applicants have been put though to 2nd stage where you have to pay £245 - so CTC wont be making the 1.7m.

How many realistically go to stage 2, anybody know?

[ManUtd1999]

I read somewhere that in the order of 200-300 will be invited to stage 2. No where near the 1 million quoted, but still not a bad little earner for CTC. Most if not all other industries pay expenses when they invite you to an interview and wouldn't dream of charging you for the experience, but then again, this is aviation :ugh:

[reeko]

Aviation industry is like marmite. "you love it or you hate it"

Been trying for a long time for my breakthrough.:hmm:

[Officer Kite]

You certainly ain't alone reeko !!

Who on earth said 1 million were involved in the VAA selection ? I know PPRuNe isn't the most reliable source of info but this takes the cake !

[reeko]

We'll just keep trying i guess Officer Kite.

I think SkyStreaker was estimating that 7000 applicants will pay around the £250 mark for assessment in Dibden, which I guess is where the figure 1 million came about.

I hope it's 7000 because then I have a chance again :O but highly unlikely.

[Officer Kite]

My apologies then, I read MANUTD1999's post wrong.

Best of luck to you and all the others involved in the VAA selection.

[InformationAlpha]

I'm not even 'on hold' yet!

[gbotley]

Mine entered the Hold stage this afternoon around 15 days post application. It will be put 'on hold' in time I'm sure :-)

[Jkelly747]

Has anyone here been invited to Dibden for Stage 2 yet? If so, what date are you attending?

[LostInFlight88]

Can someone tell me what "essay/competency" questions they asked (Virgin Atlantic FFP)? Just the question NOT the answer.

Thanks.

[InformationAlpha]

And we're on hold! Any dates confirmed for the future?

[swiny1111]

'InformationAlpha' when did you send your application off? I'm still 'Awaiting Selection'. Fair enough they do have thousands to look through.

[EZY_FR]

Got the "thanks but no thanks" email, good luck to those still in the game! Now time to focus on FPP.

[SBSpencer96]

Anyone else on the 01/12 selection date?

[Runner233]

Got some good news today! So happy!! Look forward to meeting you guys at Dibden in the coming weeks!

[tonybhoy96]

Does anyone know how to log back onto the application portal?

[reeko]

tonybhoy96:

Virgin Application Form (http://virgin.ctcaviation.com/)

[tonybhoy96]

Thank you reeko

[j4mi3]

Got the invitation to Dibden on wednesday, about 2 and a half weeks after applying. I don't think my gmail has ever been accessed so much

I'm happy to be going but not happy about the £250 fee.

see you there

[plasmarb]

I got rejected, but they don't give feedback as to why. The essay I assume..

What answers was they looking for?

[InformationAlpha]

Are responses given only on working days ie Mon - Fri 9-5? Or, has anyone received word outside these times?

[flying apprentice]

What answers was they looking ?

For a start, I would fathom a guess that grammatically correct answers would have been desirable. :}

[tonybhoy96]

How often do they add new assessment days?

[Danny.]

My response came at 1630 on a Sunday. So anytime really

[hazholmes]

Still 'awaiting selection'.

[VLT_029]

I've been on hold for around 10 days now. Should I email CTC or just wait?

[Tommerhawk]

I submitted my application on 15th Nov. and still 'Awaiting selection', which I assume means no-one's even looked at it yet.

VLT_029: Some people waited two weeks or more for a response so I wouldn't worry about waiting a little longer - as unbearable as it may be! CTC will no doubt have a mountain of applications to work through.

[plasmarb]

Well done to all who have made selection.

I would love to know what some people made in their essay? Where did I go wrong? :bored:

[Danny.]

Plasmarb has a good question...
This might be a nice one for successful candidates to shed some light on!

[ManUtd1999]

The essay was an interesting one. The obvious question is surely "why do you want to be a pilot/work for Virgin?", but for some reason they chose not to ask that.

[GetTheQRH]

@ManUtd1999 I guess the problem with asking that would be that they'd have got 8000 of nearly identical 'stock' answers. I guess the questions they chose were to try and make us think more, and research more into the company - something that'd make it easier to differentiate stronger candidates perhaps?

[Yung_Flyer]

I have my interview on the 27th November.
I know that people had there interviews today (24th) and was wondering if anyone could help me out with the interview questions and environment

Cheers

[G-F0RC3]

The essay was an interesting one. The obvious question is surely "why do you want to be a pilot/work for Virgin?", but for some reason they chose not to ask that.

They will probably ask you that in the interview. :)

[reeko]

Good to hear from you G-F0RC3, hope Jerez is nice and warm unlike here. :(

Totally agree with you on that question being asked in the interview. :ok:

[juniour jetset]

Hi All,

I'm happy to talk a bit about my experience, but won't divulge too much about the actual CTC tests in respect to them kindly asking us not too.

I applied for the Virgin programme on 1st Nov.
Got a pass to the next stage on the 11th Nov.
Had my CTC selection day on 21st Nov.
Failed to progress email 24th Nov

Me- 38 years old. GCSEs, A-levels, BSc Degree and professional diploma. Various job and life experiences. 15 hours flying- couple of as solo. Always had a dream of being an airline pilot since I was a kid.

I found the CTC day a very good experience all in all. Obviously no one want's to pay the £245 fee, but they have considerable costs I'm sure and they also need to have a filter for the time wasters.

Of interest, the age spread on my day was 17 to 43. But average was probably mid 20s.

CTC - lovely settings with very friendly and professional staff who make you feel very welcome and do their very best at settling your nerves. Good refreshments and lunch spread.

Also got to spend a couple of hours throughout the day speaking with several (younger) first officers from Virgin who are already living the dream. These guys will be some of the mentors to the lucky 12. Definitely take the opportunity to chat and learn from them.

I passed the numeracy, pilpat and group exercises but came short in the interview. If I can pass on one piece of advice that may help others - it would be think in terms of CRM - crew resource managemen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management)t - I feel this is a BIG part of what they are looking for in people who they will put forward to Virgin as potentials.

Despite 300 quid out of pocket after extra costs etc. I still feel it was a positive thing with lots to take away, whether it be for future pilot interviews or interviews in other industries. I have grown as a person because of it and learnt more about myself and how I act under pressure.

Hope my insight helps others.

[Homa Bird]

Hello, all.

I've recently been accepted to attend Phase 2, but no dates have been released for the past 2 days. Anybody else yet to book their Phase 2 date?

Also, would anyone know the deadline before which Phase 2 would need to be completed?

Thanks in advance.

[FlyingChip]

Commiserations juniour jetset. However, I really appreciate the feedback from your day.

Congratulations Homa Bird, do you have any similar feedback? I appreciate you will not want to give too much away as we are all in competition,

My application is currently still on Hold... I have never checked my emails so often in my life!

[Airbus Airhead]

Congrats on getting that far Juniour! I was out at essay questions and two weeks of checking my junk every couple of hours :bored: must have been something I said:! Hopefully I'll see some of you at easy jet and ba :cool: ! Just a quickie ow many people were in your Assesment? And how many got through to the afternoon?:eek:

[juniour jetset]

12 people on my assesment day

we were told:

8000 people registered in total of which only 4800 were completed fully and accepted

around 300 invited to CTC

of which 48 go on to Virgin

for 12 spots on the programme

2 groups each of 6 - first group starting May 2015

Don't know how many got through on my day or if any - or if they have daily quotas or anything similar.

It's a low odds game and everyone else is a competitor to you, but you have to play the group game to it's fullest as well.

Good luck to you all!

[Homa Bird]

Hi Flying Chip,

I very much agree with Junior Jetset with regards to Cockpit Resource Management. For essays, try to orientate your scenario to depict how you have demonstrated good interpersonal qualities and working alongside a more authoritative figure. The scenario can be absolutely anything and doesn't necessarily have to be aviation related.

Because of the thousands of essays the selection team must go through, try to make your essays as interesting as possible to read. Something different. Something to 'indulge' in.

Emphasise on areas in your scenario where you have demonstrated CRM and how you feel that applies to a cockpit situation.

Finally, something I've bared in mind in any application that has word limits, aim to use all of it: there's a reason why they ask you for 200, 300 or 500 words: that in itself is a test of how well you can condensate important information into a stringent word count. :)


P.S. Has anyone received new bookable dates for Phase 2? My page is still blank!

[StickAndShudder]

I just got my rejection email - the application never went "On Hold" (as I've been logging in pretty much every day to check it!) and was still "Awaiting Selection" early this afternoon

Thought my application was pretty good - but it obviously wasn't what they're looking for. I finished my application quite late (on the deadline day) as my day job got in the way :) so that may not have helped

Would have loved to have gone on the assessment day to see what it's all about, fingers crossed for better luck next time! Good luck to everyone still in the game :)

[juniour jetset]

SZr

I made a gaffe in my post

8000 registered, only 4800 or so submitted complete apps.

[heypesto]

I've been lucky enough to pass the first round, but still cannot see any dates for CTC! For those that have already been, is there any further indication of salary, post-training? I've read £27k pa, is that true? Does it increase for each of the seven years? Any info at all very welcome....

[Airbus Airhead]

Thanks for the CRM advice I will be taking that on board! It's the second time I've been let down on my questions, the other was Aer Lingus. On the the next one!:}

[juniour jetset]

was told by Virgin guys - starting salary of £26,800 a year (with slight incremental increases to reflect inflation) for first seven years until training bond is paid back to you(monthly non taxable).

Not sure exactly when this starts

After 7 years you cross over to the standard first officer pay scale which is around 55-58k starting

whilst down route you get a pre-paid card with cash on it for your exspenses

will fly 825 hours a year until 7-year cross over when you will then fly 750

[juniour jetset]

I met this guy from Virgin on my day - very nice chap with some great insight into the job

He is one of the mentors for the VAFF programme.

here is an interview with him (http://www.sikhnet.com/news/virgin-atlantic-future-flyers-programme-pilot-training-special)

[Tommerhawk]

Snr FO Singh! I spoke to him also at the PFTE at the start of the month, absolutely crackin' bloke. He told me that he actually took a pay cut to join VA initially from easyJet, but he only had great things to say about working for them. Only makes you want it even more!

Would be great to bump into him again at Phase 2 - currently entering day number 4 'On Hold'... fingers crossed!

[InformationAlpha]

Also on hold. Is anyone experiencing difficulty in logging on to check application status?

[InformationAlpha]

All good now. Back online... Still on hold :oh:

[gbotley]

Still On Hold this end too. I've become used to the feeling of waiting.. what will be will be. Good luck all, and remember, everything happens for a reason.

[1234.]

does anyone knows how to check online my application status?

[thowmas]

Virgin Application Form (http://virgin.ctcaviation.com)

Look forward to meeting some of you at CTC!

[1234.]

Thank you thowmas,


I log in onto the page but the only think i can see is some errors..
Does not show any status of the application.
Do u have any ideas?

[thowmas]

1234. - I find the page gives errors if there's a time-out; refresh the page in your browser and then log back in - I've never had any problems doing it that way. Otherwise try another browser or perhaps contact CTC if the problem persists.

[StickAndShudder]

Quick question to anyone that might know, and I hate to be "that guy" but as I understand CTC won't entertain enquiries regarding individual applications...

My application went from being "Awaiting selection" to "Unsuccessful" with no period "On hold" - anybody think this means I perhaps filled the form in incorrectly or failed on some criteria other than the essay questions? I was (guessing) the "on hold" period was where they had taken your application off the pile so to speak and were about to give it a read through

Good luck to all as always :)

[GetTheQRH]

Luckily I got my pass through to the next round at 5:43PM yesterday (also happening to be my 18th birthday - coincidence? :) )

Here's my little breakdown of events...
- Sent application off: 13th November
- 'Awaiting Selection': 13th-25th November
- 'On Hold': 5:30PM 25th November
- Passed to next stage at 5:43 on 28th November.

For those currently 'on hold' - good luck! Remember good things come to those who wait :-) Good luck to everyone else too...

[InformationAlpha]

Am I the only one still waiting? :confused:

[Lord Spandex Masher]

The Historian
This is the closest, about a mile away if that - The Pilgrim Inn - Bedrooms (http://pilgriminnmarchwood.co.uk/bedrooms)

Not particularly cheap though.

[VLT_029]

You are not alone informationalpha. I have been "on hold" for around a fortnight.

Ashb what date is your assessment?

Good luck to everyone still waiting for a reply.

[GetTheQRH]

The only 2 choices it gave me were either Monday 8th Dec or Wednesday 10th- I chose the Wednesday.

The 'you've passed' email that they sent me seemed to be quite pushy as to booking your assessment as soon as possible, with it almost threatening that you won't be able to book a place if you leave it too long. Maybe I've just misinterpreted it, but I'd have thought that they would have ensured there would be space for everyone that they put through.

[cheerup]

TheHistorian I stayed at Dibden manor itself for my assessment day. If you read the email inviting you to stage 2 it says that if you contact CTC they can help arrange accommodation. I paid about £60 for a room including dinner the evening before and breakfast on the morning of the assessment. The room was nice and I definitely felt a lot more comfortable on the day having had the night before to settle in and chat to current students at dinner. I'd recommend it if that's an option. :)

[cheerup]

Erm, I'd allow til 17.30 just to be on the safe side. Some of us finished earlier and some had to wait for their interview. Good luck!

[GetTheQRH]

Does anybody know if everyone gets through to ththe afternoon interview? I'm just a little bit confused... The email I've got suggests that everyone will be seen for an interview, but then some of the other literature they send out says that only people to pass the morning section will get an interview. If anyone that's been could help out, that'd be great!

[juniour jetset]

Yes, everybody goes through to the interview in the afternoon.
They start after lunch around 1.30pm.
One on one.
They had three different interviewers each interviewing a candidate.
I was last to go and had to stick around till 4.30pm and finished at 5pm.

You then get an email to say what you passed:
Group exercises, Numeracy, Pilpat and Interview

They also follow up with a telephone call with more details.

So, you do get good feedback both good and bad for you 245 GBP.

[InformationAlpha]

Waiting just under a month now...

[GetTheQRH]

Has anbody that's already been for selection been told that they're through to the final stage with the Virgin interviews?? :-)

[InformationAlpha]

Are others still on hold, bearing in mind the above post mentioning interviews?...