All non-EASA aircraft banned by Dutch?

[astir 8]

I've heard a story that the Dutch equivalent of the CAA have banned, or are going to ban all foreign non-EASA aircraft (Annex II, homebuilts, microlights etc) from Dutch airspace.

This may also apply to Dutch based but foreign registered non EASA aircraft.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Can they do that?:sad:

[Jan Olieslagers]

One can hear a lot of stories, not least at the airfield bar. Some might even be true!
But for myself I'd prefer to see some kind of written source.

For as much as I know the Dutch in general and their government, they'll not soon forbid outright, but they might well make some things prohibitively expensive. They have already shown themselves little supportive of recreational motorised flying.

[BEagle]

As I understand it, the problem isn't with the Dutch CAA, it's with their regulatory people who live in a different government department.

All Dutch GA organisations and their CAA agree that the current regulatory view is unreasonable; hopefully the situation will improve after discussions with other NAAs. But it seems that a civil jet display team were refused entry into Dutch airspace due to this wooden-footed, wooden-headed attitude towards foreign-registered Annex II aircraft....:mad:

[astir 8]

BEAGLE:- so a true story then. And in force.

Presumably there must be a NOTAM somewhere. Embarrassing to arrive at Dutch airspace and be told to p*** off

[piperboy84]

Well bollox to them, us N reger's will just have to score our hookers, dope and cloggs elsewhere while VFR touring the continent.

[englishal]

all foreign non-EASA aircraft (Annex II, homebuilts, microlights etc) from Dutch airspace.
Isn't the key in the wording, FOREIGN? Doesn't our CAA already do this - you don't see many N reg RV6's flying around the UK do you.

I am guessing that an N reg RV6 re-registered on the G or Dutch register or an RV6 built in the UK or Holland would be ok.

[astir 8]

From what I understand a G-Reg RV6 can't go to Holland any more.

[markkal]

what about N experimental

I have a Su29 registered in russia for 15 years, banned in 2011 in europe, then managed to find an alternative N experimental, now I realise it's banned in Italy, France UK, tolerated in Germany , Austria, Slovenia, Netherlands is then a no-go too..

[piperboy84]

I guess I misunderstood this one, are we are talking about foreign registered experimental/kit planes only and not type certificated aircraft?

[astir 8]

We are talking about any non-EASA registered aircraft foreign to Holland.

Annex II
Homebuilts
Ultralights
Microlights
Annex II Gliders

the lot.

Just as well this lot weren't running Holland in 1944 as I guess Spitfires would have been banned too!

Sorry, for Holland read the Netherlands. There is apparently a difference if you are Dutch

[piperboy84]

What possible logic would drive this decision, they are impeding GA, tourism, goodwill, open borders and a whole bunch of other stuff and to what possible benefit?

[shineymoh]

If it is true, chances are they're breaking some EU or Court of Human Rights Law! - isn't it a mans fundamental right to spend six years or so in his garage, day and night, hammering and drilling away at great financial and mental cost to himself and his family, to one day produce a flying machine, surely that's written into the European Convention on Human Rights!

Anycase, I think the British Goverment should retaliate and ban all Oranges :p

[Above The Clouds]

Obviously the numpty bureaucrats are smoking to much of their home grown weed.
Let them get on with it who wants to go there anyway.

[patowalker]

Foreign registered Annex II microlights are allowed in NL in accordance with
wetten.nl - Wet- en regelgeving - Regeling MLA?s, MLH?s en schermvliegtuigen - BWBR0015237 (http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0015237/geldigheidsdatum_13-02-2014)

The relative bit > or < reads:
MLA, MLH and powered parachutes, registered in a European Civil Aviation Conference (ECAC) country and which do not have a Certificate of Airworthiness (CofA) as prescribed in ICAO annex 8, are given a general permission to use the airspace of the Netherlands (FIR Amsterdam) under certain conditions on a temporary basis.
The conditions are the following:
1. The Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry has issued a non ICAO CofA, a permit to fly, or any other document permitting the operation of the aircraft;
2. The operating conditions and limitations set by Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry are applicable whilst operating in the airspace of the Netherlands.


Foreign registered homebuilts are allowed in accordance with AIC 16/O2.
Integrated Aeronautical Information Package the Netherlands (http://www.ais-netherlands.nl/aim/2014-06-12-AIRAC/eAIP/html/index-en-GB.html)

[Pirke]

As long as it's EASA, then it's still ok.

Sorry, for Holland read the Netherlands. There is apparently a difference if you are Dutch

Similar to England vs UK. For us non-UK people it's the same, but for a Scottish person it's probably very different :)

[Capt Kremmen]

Pirke

Did you get it ? An acknowledgement would be good !

[patowalker]

From what I understand a G-Reg RV6 can't go to Holland any more.

That cannot be correct, because AIC - A 16/02 is still in force. Permission is not required for a G-reg homebuilt.

AIC-A 16/02

02 MAY 02
PERMISSION TO FLY INTO THE NETHERLANDS AIRSPACE WITH FOREIGN BUILT AMATEUR AIRCRAFT

A new part of dutch legislation of amateur built aircraft came recently in force. Part of this new legislation deals with amateur built aircraft which are registered in a member country of the European Civil Aviation Conference (ECAC) and do not have a Certificate of Airworthiness (CofA), as prescribed in ICAO annex 8.
Amateur built aircraft, registered in an ECAC country are given a general permission to use the airspace of the Netherlands (FIR Amsterdam) under certain conditions on a temporary basis. This is to facilitate international meetings, fly-ins, demonstrations or other recreational purposes.
The conditions are the following:


The Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry has issued a non ICAO CofA, a permit to fly, or any other document permitting the operation of the aircraft;
The operating conditions and limitations set by Civil Aviation Authority of the country of registry are applicable whilst operating in the airspace of the Netherlands.

All other owners of foreign built amateur aircraft have to request a special flight permit to be issued by the Civil Aviation Authority Netherlands to enter the airspace of the Netherlands. The requests have to be accompanied by a photo-copy of the following documents:


Certificate of Registration;
CofA, Permit to Fly, or any other document permitting the operation of the aircraft;
If the document under 2. is only valid in your national airspace, an exemption from the Civil Aviation Authority concerned, permitting the aircraft to be operated outside your national airspace is necessary;
Proof of adequate insurance concerning liability.

Send your request to:
Post: Civil Aviation Authority Netherlands
P.O. Box 575
2130 AN Hoofddorp
The Netherlands Fax: +31 (0)23 566 3006resource://skype_ff_extension-at-jetpack/skype_ff_extension/data/call_skype_logo.png+31 (0)23 566 3006 AIC-B (MAL) 68/92 is cancelled herewith.

ISSN: 1386-6605

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[astir 8]

Patowalker

Thanks, so it doesn't look quite so bad as I'd been told for for ULV's and homebuilts

What about Annex II aircraft which are not microlights?

[patowalker]

I suppose permission would be required, just as it is in most other countries, including the UK.

[AdamFrisch]

Subversive thought.

Don't bother with getting exemption, you call ATC as you cross border - has anyone had ATC query you about if you're aircraft is legal or has exemption? Ever? No, they don't know, they just assume or don't even care. Only time this would potentially be a problem is if you had a ramp check by the Dutch CAA on the ground. But then it's better to ask forgiveness than permission.

[Jan Olieslagers]

You seem to forget that, since mode S, big brother is watching us. Not a big job to check the logs and verify the status of each plane that has been inside one's airspace.

[astir 8]

BEagle referred to a jet display team being refused entry to Dutch airspace, so maybe not such a good idea.

[riverrock83]

Just to avoid confusion - when you say Annex 2 - I presume you really mean aircraft without an Certificate of Airworthiness? You can be Annex 2 and have a CofA. If you have a CofA you can fly pretty much everywhere without express permission (by ICAO convention).

At least - that's what I was taught!

(eg - SA Bulldogs are Annex 2 but can be CofA or Permit, the Permit ones aren't covered by ICAO therefore they need special permission)

[astir 8]

My personal problem is with UK registered Annex II gliders which have CofA's issued by the BGA. There are also lot of (mainly Slingsby-built) BGA reg gliders in the Netherlands which look as if they are to be grounded under this Dutch decree as the Dutch refuse to accept them onto their registers