Tablet use in cockpit

[Pirke]

I'm looking for a good tablet to use in the cockpit, mainly for navigation app. My 5" phone is too small, and 7" doesn't seem to be much bigger, so I prefer a 10" tablet. I'm probably gonna strap it to my leg in portrait mode.

Does anybody have experience or advice?

[Rod1]

I have played with both 7 (Nexus) and 10 (ipad 3). In many cockpits 10 is too big, so have standardized on 7. The screens are not visible in bright sunlight so I have not mounted them on the panel etc. I find that I have to move them around to get the best viewing angle which changes depending on sun position etc. I fly low wing aircraft so this would probably be less of an issue in high wing.

Rod1

[S-Works]

ipad air.

It runs everything you could ever need.

[Pirke]

You say a 10" is too big. For panel mount I can understand, but when strapped to your leg it's not bigger than a regular kneepad. Or am I missing something?

[Rod1]

My kneepad is almost exactly the same size as the nexus. Any wider and it gets jammed between the stick and the side on both the MCR and the Jodel.

Rod1

[Camargue]

I strap a nexus 7 to my leg. perfect fit and doesn't get in the way.

[Heston]

I was taught that you aren't fit to fly if you are taking tablets..


Coat, door, gone...

[hegemon88]

I use a Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0 - works well, especially with SkyDemon :cool: I think a 10" tablet would be too bulky in the cockpit.



/h88

[Heston]

"My 5" is too small, and 7" doesn't seem to be much bigger, so I prefer a 10". I'm probably gonna strap it to my leg"


Fnar, fnar! This thread is already a goldmine, keep it up folks (!)

[Rod1]

Heston, calm down dear boy. It is time for your tablets:p

[tecman]

I find I need a 10" display to really see everything comfortably. An iPAD mini (7") was just about OK but the iPAD3 straps quite comfortably to my right leg and leaves plenty of room in my P2002JF. Don't need any external GPS to get solid navigation performance.

Despite the good screen on the iPAD it's still not bright enough in full sunshine. Another hazard - at least here in Oz - is that iPADs shut down when too hot. This has happened to me a couple of times and, while it's inconvenient, caused no great drama. But just be aware that these are all consumer grade boxes, and make sure you carry at least the minimum paper charts etc.

[dirkdj]

I use the Nexus7 with Skydemon and am very happy in a lowwing aircraft. Keep in mind that everything that is powered by a lithium battery must be tossable in a hurry via the storm window, so adjust the size accordingly.

[worrab]

Have a look at a Pipo T9.

[fatmanmedia]

the wife likes my 10 inch, she thinks the 5 is too small and the 7 inch feels weird in the hand.

Fats

[ChickenHouse]

My Tablet use started with an iPad2, which was kind of ok on the knee. I switched to iPad3 and threw it off the cockpit, as it was too heavy for the kneeboard. Now I am at an iPad Mini Retina, which is almost perfect: it does have enough pixel to be nice to look at information and it fits in the knee board in a rented plane on on the yoke in my own. So 7" is my favorite, but it should definitely be the retina display.

[sharpend]

I'm thinking of changing from iPad 2 (with no GPS, just external receiver) to an iPad Mini 3G with GPS and retina display. Better display in sunlight, lighter, smaller (but big enough?) and with an internal GPS it will not have the problems of the external GPS receiver going into sleep mode when I am stationary on the ground.

I use SkyDemon which I think is brilliant.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Another vote for the ipad mini with retina display.

Small enough to be used in the cramped cockpit of the Jung clipped into a Marv Golden knee board.

Brilliant piece of kit offering a one stop shop for all (most of) my needs. Navigate in the air using Skydemon, pull up the Pooleys / AFE plate for the destination airfield. Use it to find a hotel. Navigate from airfield to hotel using the installed TomTom app then read Pilot / Flyer on the device in the hotel bar whilst slipping down a cold one.

Love it so much that my Garmin Aera 500 and 296 ended up on ebay. They were simply redundant.

SRD

[Jan Olieslagers]

the wife likes my 10 inch

errm... no comment...

[ChickenHouse]

errm... no comment...


Don't worry, always keep in mind these numbers are only diagonals ...

[Rod1]

"the wife likes my 10 inch"

That's not what she told me.:E

Rod1

[AdamFrisch]

I love my iPad mini running Foreflight here in the US so much I'm even going to install 2 flush panel mounts when I do the panel. They're bloody brilliant. If I were legal to do so, I'd chuck the Garmin GPS right out the door and just have those, but alas, I can't since it's WAAS. The cool thing about having two iPads mounted is that you have:

Redundancy
You can run one IFR and one VFR to keep situational awareness.
You can put approach plates on one and keep the enroute chart on the other.
You can watch movies on long IR flights (hook the audio up to the audio panel)
You can run separate software, or a dedicated AHARS unit with artificial horizon or even synthetic vision.

Airgizmo has a nice panel mount unit for the iPad:

iPad mini Panel Dock™ (http://www.airgizmos.com/iPad-mini-Panel-Dock_p_51.html)

[Silvaire1]

Despite the good screen on the iPAD it's still not bright enough in full sunshine. Another hazard - at least here in Oz - is that iPADs shut down when too hot. This has happened to me a couple of times and, while it's inconvenient, caused no great drama. I use an articulating mount and have found that if I angle the screen to reduce glare prior to takeoff, it works with my iPad Mini until the sun elevation changes significantly with time. It was also lucky that the best place for the mount directly exposes the unit to an air vent, and for me that has prevented any shut downs.

You can run one IFR and one VFR to keep situational awareness.Last weekend I was flying with a friend as safety pilot while he flew approaches in his G1000 equipped aircraft. On the sixth approach into the third airport he inadvertently busted Class B airspace (we were VFR for the practice approaches and not cleared into the Bravo at that point). The device that brought this to our attention first was my iPhone running the Terminal Area VFR chart on Foreflight ;) The good news was that no phone number was furnished upon landing. :)

[Helicopterdriverguy]

I use an iPad Mini not Retina with RunwayHD and preflight with SkyDemon, as there really is nothing better. When i fly Europe abroad, i use Skydeamon, all with the relevant Paper VFR charts of course.

For home aircraft mounting, i use a RAM mount on my butterfly yoke, it works very well!

[piperboy84]

Ipad mini with the RAM mount up on the frame crossmember like where the visor is in my car, works great,easy to view and not in the way and leaves the kneepad free for writing etc.

[It flies]

I'm running Easy VFR on a Galaxy Tab PRO 8.4. I use it strapped to my leg with a MyClip Mini strap. This combination works quite well and the screen is still visible outside even in sunny weather. I returned an LG Gpad 8.3 because as soon as I got outside I couldn't see anything on the screen.

A newer version called the Galaxy Tab S with an oled screen might be even better but I haven't seen it yet.

Tab Pro 8.4:
Samsung GALAXY TabPRO (8.4) | SAMSUNG (http://www.samsung.com/nl/consumer/mobile-phone/tab/tab/SM-T320NZKAPHN)

Leg strap:
http://www.myclipforipad.com/product-detail.php?MCM01=1396780977

[jayteeto]

As an old fart, I read this thread in awe of you young thrusters. I have used a map and stopwatch for 25 years. Often, I don't even bother switching the aircraft gps on.
Serious question, what do you use these iPods for?? I can understand approach plates, but what is actually available to use on these machines of the devil?
I own an iPad by the way.

[Helicopterdriverguy]

Hi Jayteeto,

I applaud you for sticking to the old ways, personally, i take a flight out every so often with the gps switched off to go back to old DR ways to keep current with both but normally, i prefer marking out an updated CAA chart and keeping that between the seats or if no pax, on the RH seat if needed.

Anyway, 2 big players exist in the iPad navigation field at this time, Airbox RunwayHD and Skydeamon. It is ultimately a matter of preference what you prefer to use as Skydeamon is vector charting, that is computer generated charts that are actually very, very good and the other, scanned CAA charting with aircraft overlay.

Heliguy

[A and C]

Twenty years back when I started using light aircraft for long trips in Europe I has five Jepp books, countless maps, and all sorts of navigation equipment all the flight planning had to be done manually and flight plans got faxed.

The whole plot took ten Kg off the payload of the aircraft.

Now I have two iPads, the mini for use in flight and the standard iPad because my fingers are too big for the mini most of the time, all the flight planing can be done over the Internet, the flight log is on the iPads, two iPads provide redundancy and carry world wide Jepp coverage and all with a weight reduction of in the order of 400%.

Anyone who is not using tablet technology in the cockpit is as the Brits say........Dagenham !

[Big Pistons Forever]

the wife likes my 10 inch, she thinks the 5 is too small and the 7 inch feels weird in the hand.

Fats

Nice thread drift :rolleyes:

If you want to talk about fuel dipsticks you should start another thread. :p

I love my i-pad. I have foreflight (the big player in North America) and it is brilliant. One compact little square with every VFR and IFR map for all of Canada and the US. My monster flight bag that I used to used to lug all the paper around is gathering dust in my closet.

[PPLvirgin]

Jayteeo,

Ipads or your modern choice makes life a lot easier. Planning is muc easier and Navigation is much eaiser and takes up less time giving you more time to be looking out, for contact and simply enjoying why we all like being up there, a birds eye view of breathtaking scenery.

The nav bit tells you precisely where you are and how high and fast with no second guessing, it also shows you clearly what is coming up. It dramatically reduces you looking in cockpit time and reduces your mental energy used etc..

I only passed my PPL in March 2014 and intend to keep current on traditional but there simply is no denying that IPAD's are brilliant Nav aids and allow you to enjoy the flight - having said that, there is no greater satisfaction than arriving on your destination using map & stopwatch.

regards

Tris

[glendalegoon]

what do you do if the lithium ion battery explodes or catches fire?


the FAA has just checked out the concept and its not pretty.

And what do you use to shade the cockpit?

[fatmanmedia]

when I fly I go with 2 fully charged ipad air both have all the software, maps and info that I need to complete my flight..

with that I bought a garmin glo and a kneeboard.

I really don’t see the need to carry paper charts, i know i might be one of the few who do that, i really do feel that with chat i can carry with the ipads there is no need for paper any more.

Fats

[PPLvirgin]

hopefully have time to chuck the Ipad out lol. Havn't heard of an accident yet?

surely something would have been done by now if they were not safe?

what are electronics powered by in all aircraft?

[Pace]

I use the I pad mini. It is fairly small and can slot into any reasonably small bag.
Its larger brother the I pad was rejected by EasyJet after extensive testing because of its overheating and failure problems.
The Mini I pad does not have those issues

Pace

[Cows getting bigger]

Something worth considering.

Air Accidents Investigation: Socata TB10 Tobago, G-CFME (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/august_2014/socata_tb10_tobago__g_cfme.cfm)

[A and C]

In the air the iPad should be used as a data storage and display device NOT as the primary source of position information.

[Pace]

A C

I totally agree its main purpose should be for chart and data storage but even there a trip kit should be printed off in paper form ;)

[Capt Kremmen]

As one of those currently on the back of the electronic drag curve, I do appreciate the comments and explanations of those with experience.

I use a Garmin 296 which is very good but, with a small screen the moving map doesn't give the bigger picture. So, a change is in the offing !

[Zulu Alpha]

I use a non reflecting screen protector on my Nexus 7.

A couple of £s on eBay.

It improves visibility in sunlight.

[cattardbezzina]

I use the Nexus 7 with AirNav Pro, coupled with the Dual XGPS150A GPS bluetooth reciever... works like a charm :ok:

FYI the nexus 7 is also the same size as a typical kneeboard

[Camargue]

I favour amixture of modern an old

pocketfms on the tablet which is a fantastic bit of free kit. there is no flight planning and I use it for reference. It will load notams which show up on the map when you are in the vicinity, only shows airspace which is relevant to your altitude. has all the frequencies you might need and alerts you as you approach cas, giving the relevant frequency. not yet had a problem with loss of signal or overheating or hanging.

For planning/nav use a chart, original google maps with distance tool to calculate distances, look at route/airfield on satellite view which is v useful for picking out ground features / orientation and and on the day use electronic eb6 (or what ever its called) to calculate tas, drift etc etc. all very quick and easy

[YODI]

I use a Samsung galaxy 10.1, it's Android so no restrictions like Apple and it's much cheaper.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/rsyodi/Flying/Untitled_zps4f0a1dc0.jpg

[jayteeto]

Ta for the replies, what do you use for flight plans? That would be useful for me. I often get tasked with very (in flight) short notice diversions up and down the country. Can waypoints be put on charts by one finger push? In other words, could I plan a route from the NW to London in a couple of minutes?

[Rod1]

Using PFMS EasyVFR yes. It will also give you Notams and weather specific to your plan and show them on a map as required. Android or Apple.

Rod1

[tmmorris]

Skydemon does exactly that; plus if you pay (£10 per month iirc) you can file the flight plan from it as well.

[Zulu Alpha]

SkyDemon is very easy and quick to use. I can plan a route in less than a minute and it will get winds aloft, NOTAMs etc immediately so that I can choose to adjust the route.

I don't file flightplans so haven't activated this feature, but all you do is set up templates for the aircraft/pilot combinations and the form is automatically filled in. I believe the charge is about £1 for each filing.

One feature I like is the ability to operate on multiple platforms. I can create my route on my PC, upload it to the cloud, then download to my Nexus 7 and also download as a backup to my iPhone.

The maps for all of Europe and NA are included in the price.

You can try it for 30 days as a free trial. I find it works faultlessly and reduces an hour of flight planning to a minute or two.

[dublinpilot]

I use a full size iPad (in a PA28) and space isn't an issue for me, and I like the size.

It probably is more of an issue if you fly something with a stick.

I use EasyVFR by PocketFMS (http://www.pocketfms.com/easyvfr/) (I'm part of the beta team). Yes, it's possible to easily replan flights in the air. The interface for EasyVFR was specifically designed to make this as easy as possible. A no point in the re-planning process is a very accurate touch on the screen required, and there are no time sensitive parts to the planning.

So vibration or turbulence isn't really too much of an issue, and you can stop what you're doing to look outside/talk to ATC without losing your place in the re-planning.

Unlimited FREE electronic flight plan filing is included with a Frequent Flyer membership, though you'll probably struggle to get a data connection while flying, so this will probably have to be done on the ground ;)

[Pirke]

SkyDemon has a free 30 day trial, I'm gonna use that on a borrowed tablet to see if I like it. I couldn't find a free trial for PocketFMS though. Does anybody know if it is possible to try it before buying it?

[ChickenHouse]

I don't recall wether this is actual or outdated, but when I used the SD demo it allowed only 30 minutes of navigation during the test period. So check this beforehand and in case, don't go for a 35 minute ride relying on it.

[sharpend]

Using the Sky Demon demo is ok and you can start it again after 30 mins, but if my memory is correct I don't think it uses all the features. Moreover, I don't think you can use the demo for more than one month. It is just that, a demo, to see if you like it. I do!

[Pirke]

I asked the question to SD. After 30 minutes it goes back to planning mode. If you wait 10 minutes you can go back to another 30 minutes of flight navigation.

[flybymike]

Indeed. You just need to be able to hold a heading for ten minutes.

[Bobby Hart]

SkyDemon employee Rob, here to offer clarifications...

The SkyDemon free trial has pretty much all the functionality active, with the exceptions being:

- The 30 minute navigation time-limit (as discussed),
- The electronic flight-plan and GAR filing features (we have an obligation to verify the identity of anyone who submits data to the AFTN)
- Third party airfield documents (Pooleys, for example)
- The download all AIP function (mass data downloads are restricted for evaluation users)

We think that the iPad mini is a great size, and tends to have the most stable environment for apps (especially the complex apps that we are talking about here). If you were focusing on Android completely then the Nexus 7 tends to get the best reports for size and stability.


I hope that helps!

[A le Ron]

I have been using SD since it's inception. I currently use a full size iPad 3 on a custom knee board. I use the scratch pad feature for noting clearances etc. The size works fine in a PA28. Although I carry paper charts, I seldom use them. I no longer carry my paper Pooleys.