Intensive PPL with on-site accommodation in nice location?

[oneredpanther]

Hi chaps,

I'm at the end of my tether researching possible places to get my PPL next year.

Currently Denmark based, where training at home is out of the question since it's €300/hour for an ancient Warrior and an hour's train/bus ride each way to the airfield - so I'm looking to travel abroad.

I'm more or less willing to go anywhere in the world (Australia included) to do a 4-6 week residential PPL where I can live on or very close to the training center.

My caveats are that I don't want to have to hire a car for the whole time I'm there, nor spend an outrageous amount of time on public transport getting around. Ideally the accommodation should not be ****, and if they provide their own food/canteen then so much the better.

I suppose you could say I'm looking for the integrated ATPL version of a PPL, minus the uniform and zero job prospects!

In my quiet moments I dream of some friendly little place on the beach with a small shack I can live in and cheap, plentiful food all round.

Cost isn't particularly limiting (budget around €14,000). My main concern is that it's a good experience with minimal commute and minimal hauling around shops for food on public transport.

Your insights welcome!

[ChickenHouse]

These bootcamp educations are well available in the US, but you might not be happy with a FAA PPL in Denmark, so I assume you talk EASA part-FCL license?

At such price tag there shouldn't be any problem. A good friend of mine from Fåborg was planning to do his part-FCL PPL at Hanover airport this or next year. There is a local school flightcenter-hannover.de I heard very good of, as it offers a well balanced mix of FI being the bushpilot sort and airliners as well. They train mainly on Aquila A210 and learning to fly with CTR will give you much confidence in radio ops as well.

I have no update on his efforts, but maybe you both synchronize?

[Wander00]

You could try Stuart Morton at Limoges, France
PPL flight training in France - Stuart Morton (http://www.flyinginfrance.com/)

[dera]

Go to EFT in Fort Pierce, FL. Good reputation, good instructors, on-site housing, and weather will hopefully coordinate for a fast-track PPL.

[oneredpanther]

I've heard good things about EFT and their facilities look very good.

Thanks for the tips so far guys - will gladly receive any more!

[sapperkenno]

We'll do it for you at York Flying School at Breighton, in the North of England. Get a tent and stay on the airfield. £125/hour if our prices stay the same - to fly, not stay, in a C150/152. No need for a car. No landing fees. 4-6 weeks should easily be enough time, even for British summer weather! We've had someone finished up in 14 days of training before.
Nice club environment, and an interesting place to fly from.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Take a look around Benešov, CZ. There's rooms for rent at the field and the food AND beer are ok and ridiculously affordable.
Not so sure about availability of English speaking instructors, though, but it seems worth an enquiry.
And yes the scenery around is nice enough, rolling hills and woods and the river Vltava ("Moldau") of Smetana fame, and the fabulous city of Praha only a short train ride away.

[piperboy84]

Be great if you could find a school in Mexico that dishes out US PPL's
It's cheap accommodation, quality beer and food, hot chicks, brilliant weather and cheap gas down there.

[glendalegoon]

I don't know the ins and outs of easa etc.

I can imagine you could make it to the USA for fall and expedite your training before winter.

Everyone seems to go to arizona, california or florida. But there are many other places in the US where you could get a decent hotel / motel right at the airport and take lessons.

consult: airnav.com

put in a town or city and check out the airport (in the US) and they list the FBO and hotels with distances to the airport.

Maybe check out exotic places like champaign illinois or many other little places where the cost of hotels is low and the planes aren't too expensive.

I think there are some requirements to check into about security.

[ChickenHouse]

We still don't know which variant of PPL - US or EASA. From the initial post I assume EASA, so all these "make your US PPL" may be wrong headed. There are advantages to do the US PPL, most prominent if you go IR, but this is only a catch until 2015, when EASA planes are to be flown by a full EASA license, not only validation.

BTW: just yesterday I heard of somebody finishing his part-FCL in Szeged at Fly-Team Hungary, maybe HU is an option?

[Jan Olieslagers]

Hungary might be even cheaper for food/accommodation than CZ. A possible issue in both countries might be that not many people have even the slightest bit of English. Make sure to have an instructor with good English (or another language that you speak, German perhaps)!

[ChickenHouse]

Hungary and Czech are quite similar in many aspects. Czech is a bit more expensive, but a bit easier with english. Hungary is a bit cheaper and the english skills sufficient to survive. I worked in both countries for a while (Prague and Budapest were definitely easy with english, but in smaller towns you may have to ask a bit around). You get used to radio after a short while, in both countries you can fly on english radio ops. Tower and Info usually are able to speak quite well english and the few vocabs of the traffic circle you learn in a matter of hours. If you are going for LP Czech is easier ;-).

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi oneredpanther,

Whenever someone posts on Pprune seeking a location for an intensive course there is always someone who suggests coming to the UK. Don't do it. The UK has a 'returning polar maritime' climate, (i.e. cloudy and wet with a summer maximum rainfall). And it is at its worst in the North and West of the country.

In fairness, you can just perhaps be lucky. In 1960 I did my own PPL in only a few weeks at Barton near Manchester. But I was very, very lucky. After I had completed my course it then proceeded to rain for weeks on end. If I had started my course ten days later it would have taken months to complete.

In the mid 2000s when I came to renew my licence - this time in the relatively dry South East of England - I had to book two to three times the number of lessons I wanted because more than half of them had to be cancelled within 48 hrs of flying because of adverse weather. Renewing my licence took nearly a year.

In these circumstances if you come to the UK you could end up returning to Denmark weeks later with your course far from complete and facing the choice, either of doing half of your training in Denmark, or else of making multiple further visits to the UK.

You need to go somewhere with a 'continental' climate, (i.e. dry).

I would also suggest it should be somewhere where there would be no shortage of instructors whose native language is English. If I was a native Danish speaker, (as I assume you are,) I should be most uneasy about learning to fly in English from an instructor whose own native language is, perhaps Czech or French. The possibilities for mistakes and misunderstanding would be worrying.

I reckon any of the following should do - but stay well away from the West coast in each case; Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, United States.

Good luck!

BP.

[dera]

Also, before someone pulls out the "you need to retrain to fly in Europe if you do your EASA PPL in USA", you have to do the same thing if you do it in the UK.
UK is as different from Denmark as US is from Denmark.

[Rod1]

Can you afford the cost of flying in Denmark after you have passed?

Rod1

[oneredpanther]

Thanks for the additional replies gents!

We still don't know which variant of PPL - US or EASA

It's the EASA license I'm after.

If I was a native Danish speaker, (as I assume you are,)
I'm actually British, stationed in Denmark indefinitely! So while the UK is home to me, as others have said the weather is a bit of a no-go.

Can you afford the cost of flying in Denmark after you have passed? Some places will rent a 172 for EUR 165/hr so that seems reasonable. For some unknown reason they like to train in more expensive Warriors or Tobagos- almost double the cost when you factor in tuition.

The more I look into EFT the better it seems to look. Happy to hear counterarguments of course :)

[kindupnorth]

When you say Denmark 'Based' do you have plans to move away once you have completed your PPL? Do you have a more local airfield to fly from once you have you licence ? Stay away from the UK for an intensive course, the weather is not reliable enough, you could end up falling on a bad week/month and spend a lot of time drinking coffee/tea. Get yourself off to florida !! :cool:

[S-Works]

Drop me a pm. I can organise it in Spain for you. Accommodation as well.

Great climate and location.

[ChickenHouse]

I only have one thing to keep in mind, when going EFT. FL is a great place to fly, airfields are large-paved-easy, you are able to spool down hours after hours quite quickly there and the weather is almost always nice, BUT - this is exactly the drawback, especially when talking piloting in Denmark.

I am currently based Northern Germany and frequently flying into Denmark (some real great places there!). Weather is a great issue, strong crosswinds upon landing are common and the typical DK airstrip a short small gras mogul slope. My bet after following some chaps Florida education in recent years: you will need significant extra training when coming back from FL to handle small fields. Our fellow US guys tend to train landing approaches with slightly higher landing speed, about 5-10 knots in excess to what we train in Europe. If you do this at Kegnaes International EKKI on 36 downslope 1300ft gras you are in the water, or at Femoe you may hit the restaurant (oneway RWY).

Sorry for such an advice, but if you plan to fly in Denmark, get an education which clearly enables to. If you have some doubts about that, I'll come and take you to some demonstration in Denmark ;-).

[worldpilot]

I only have one thing to keep in mind, when going EFT. FL is a great place to fly, airfields are large-paved-easy, you are able to spool down hours after hours quite quickly there and the weather is almost always nice, BUT - this is exactly the drawback, especially when talking piloting in Denmark.

I am currently based Northern Germany and frequently flying into Denmark (some real great places there!). Weather is a great issue, strong crosswinds upon landing are common and the typical DK airstrip a short small gras mogul slope. My bet after following some chaps Florida education in recent years: you will need significant extra training when coming back from FL to handle small fields. Our fellow US guys tend to train landing approaches with slightly higher landing speed, about 5-10 knots in excess to what we train in Europe. If you do this at Kegnaes International EKKI on 36 downslope 1300ft gras you are in the water, or at Femoe you may hit the restaurant (oneway RWY).

Sorry for such an advice, but if you plan to fly in Denmark, get an education which clearly enables to. If you have some doubts about that, I'll come and take you to some demonstration in Denmark ;-). Fact is, that landings are a much less reproducible activity. But to attribute the lapses you observed in your associates to Florida weather and airport runways is clearly a misjudgement. There is absolutely no way to substantiate your claim.
If your associates are displaying in-capabilities in handling airport landing runways, then this surely must be attributed to their immaturity in applying safety factors to AFM performance information for landing purposes.

A pilot and the airplane always work as a team and the pilot must map his/her capabilities with that of the airplane to derive the performance information needed to successfully land the airplane and come to a complete stop. In essence, the pilot must take the AFM into consideration and align all the necessary variables to achieve a positive landing outcome.

WP

[rennaps]

Anyone have information about the flying school in Christchurch, New Zealand. I heard that they provide intensive PPL and IFR training.

[XLC]

Hi,

I also disagree with that statement that Florida is a piece of cake that ill prepares you for tiny places in Europe. At the end of the day it is about experiences. The more you stay flying local in one region the less versatile you will be.

I trained at EFT back in March 2010. Had a great time and highly recommend it.
Also experienced several times and was to trained to handle serious cross wind landings.

Training in FL is a plus, you will at least get the ball rolling. Subsequent trainings to get used to more difficult situations depends also on your skills and eagerness to master those. Do not analyse too much, you know the adage: analysis paralysis. OneRedPanther: just go for it.

[mad_jock]

I used to bang out 3 week ppl all the time in inverness.

It has a microclimate which means the only wx issues are the qxc.

50 k viz is not unusual though and i never got bored of the local scenery.

No on site accom but plenty of near by reasonably priced accom as long as you avoid the golf etc.

[S-Works]

3 week PPL courses are routine for us in Spain. Same with CPL and IR etc.

[piperboy84]

Our fellow US guys tend to train landing approaches with slightly higher landing speed, about 5-10 knots in excess to what we train in Europe. If you do this at Kegnaes International EKKI on 36 downslope 1300ft gras you are in the water, or at Femoe you may hit the restaurant (oneway RWY).

Nonsense, training in the US is just like it is everywhere else, you are taught to "fly the numbers"

[Jan Olieslagers]

If you do this at Kegnaes International EKKI

Do you have more info about this aerodrome? I have no doubt the "international" bit is somewhat sarcastic, but is the rest for real?

[cockney steve]

US really doesn't want visitors....starts with the long queue and hostile officials at their Embassy....just to get a Visa.....then you face Dept. of Homeland security when you get there.......
Spain is desparate for foreign visitors, is geared up for them, prices are rock-bottom..climate is good........
ATM, I can't think of a single reason to favour America over Spain (never been to either, but trying to walk in the O.P's shoes.)

[mad_jock]

That's so true these days.

The stupidity that you have to go through to spend your money in the states is absolutely a huge pain in the backside.

There are loads of places in the EU where you can learn to fly and are nice you basically just need to decide which country takes your fancy.

3 week PPL though is not a holiday, its bloody hard work.

[piperboy84]

It ain't just foreigners that catch **** when coming thru US immigration, I,m a US citizen and i regularly get asked bull**** questions. The problem is the US Customs and immigration service and Department of Homeland Security have been on an enormous hiring spree recently and the hiring standards seems to have dropped as the bad attitudes of the new hires has risen, Based on some of the interaction I have had it appears that some have barely graduated out of toll both training school.

[mad_jock]

I don't see why I should pay money and have to jump through their bloody hoops to visit the place.

They don't want me to go their fine I don't want to go their either.

In fact the only thing that I would consider going to see would be Alaska.

I don't have any problems with Americans but there are nicer places to visit in this world and I will visit them instead and spend my money in them.

[Maoraigh1]

3 week PPL though is not a holiday, its bloody hard work. J

I did a PPL from 27 July 1964 to 21 August 1964 at Thruxton. Not much longer at 25 days. I don't remember it being any harder than, say, learning to ski or sail on a 3 week holiday. I enjoyed it.
PS £135 (+£2/10s Club membership) for the PPL - full board included.

[mad_jock]

its all in the preparation of the student and as you say if they are committed and focused.

If they are its a great three weeks for both instructor and student and it doesn't seem like hard work to either of them.

If on the other hand they have an idea in their head that they can paint the town red every other night and not put the book work in they will struggle and not enjoy it.

[dera]

I did mine in about just under 3 weeks in Florida. I would brag and say I was the usual "better than average" student, I was done in minimum hours. But it definitely wasn't a holiday. 0500 wakeup every morning, and fly as much as you can. I enjoyed it, but it was very hard work. I had excellent instructors though who made it possible.(hint: go to EFT)

I did go to Lollipops a few times though...

The immigration is a non-issue, 2-3 hours total to get everything sorted, hardly a big deal. Besides, I much rather deal with US customs and immigration people, than the spanish ATC.

People who say "Spain over US" are usually the ones who either have vested interest in Spanish aviation training, or as cockney steve said, "never been to either"

[mad_jock]

Been to both actually.

And personally I wouldn't go to either spain or FL.

I did my PPL in FL in the allotted 3 weeks.

I did though have to sort a few issues out which was due to training in the US while doing my CPL and FI ratings especially the FI.

While working as a FI I then had to sort out quite a few US trained pilots. There were some goodun's but the majority had to have re training.

RT was a major issue and also attitude flying and emergency procedures.

And immigration is a huge issue, if you get knocked back once you are stuffed for the rest of your life going to the US all because some low IQ moron on the border doesn't like the look of you. I know two commercial pilots that missed out on jobs because the type rating was in the US in DC but they were banned after a previous visit ended with the next flight back.

Basically you won't know what's wrong with your training until you go to the next level and you discover how many holes you have in it.

[banditb6]

Have you considered going to New Zealand? I know its not an EASA ticket but its very easy to convert, medical, a few exams and flight test. Another few hundred £/euro but well worth looking at.

I did mine in the Bay of Plenty, Tauranga Airport around March time and had great weather, great views and brilliant people around, some clubs will loan you a car to get to the shops only 5 minutes away.

Worth looking into I think, PM if you want more details.

[mad_jock]

if I could do everything again that's where I would go as well.

[cockney steve]

The Dagoes deal successfully with the dregs of British "society" each year.....the stories of "shagenuf" aka Magaluf and similar "resorts" are well enough known....I am given to understand the TV comedy series "Benidorm" is a very much watered-down version of reality! :O
I am sure they welcome Englishstudent-Pilots with open arms......
Also, Bose-x is a long-time member here and comes across as a good guy.

The Septics (See, Ican be even-handed with the insults :} ) really do come across as the opposite.....however much you try to evade the issue, a bitof digging will reveal the "anti" attitude starts with the cattle-herding that is the several-hour wait to see a surly, hostile official. This is NOT my biased opinion, it is as a result of postings from disgruntled applicants- they can't all be wrong!

At the final count, no doubt the "man in the street" experienceis totally different.........we used to accommodate a lot of servicemen "off Base" from Weathersfield (Suffolk?) in the late 1950's....they were , to a man, open, fun and generous (though they tended toreturn with a different "lady" every time ;) )

My youngest son has refused point-blank to go there for his employers-2 different lots have tried-he won't even entertain a short visit. the aggro to get in is enoughto put him off.
I sincerely hope Uncle Sam reads this and realises how his reputation is being dragged down by his public-facing employees......

Confession! I was asked to go out and repair a friend's sisters' Rolls Royce.
All paid including my partner, a 3 week holiday. Thanks, but no thanks. She eventuallyfound a British car enthusiast with whom I had several long e-mail conversations A cracked carburettor-float was changed and the car restored to good health.......still waiting , ~3 years later, for a "thanks" e-mail!

[dera]

I would still like to hear why is immigration a "huge issue"?

What are your experiences with US immigration? Why is it an issue? I've gone through most hurdles you can have with US immigration, and I can say it is an absolute non-issue.

Cockney steve's reply is nonsense and I think you'd require ICAO level 7 to understand what he is trying to say.

[Maoraigh1]

I've never had any problems with U S Immigration, Customs, or Airport Security. Border Patrol along the Mexican border can be awkward, but never Immigration. I've driven to Spain, and the only problem is a higher proportion of mainly Spanish speakers than the US.

[mad_jock]

I have never had a problem yet either thankfully but I have seen and heard of many that have.

And most of the time its just a huge misunderstanding, that doesn't change the fact though you are then barred from the US including transfer flights.

Some bring problems on themselves with insurance issues as well. I know double figures of people who can't go back because they have left without paying medical bills.

The whole immigration thing takes months of getting things sorted and costs you money. And their is a small chance that everything can come un done due to some idiot having a bad day at work. This will mean that you forfeit any deposit you have paid, airline tickets wasted etc etc.

Going to Europe for training on the other hand just costs you a Ryanair flight. Medical is on your home country's ticket and significantly cheaper travel insurance.

I think that lad at Ormond beach that crash and got burned has now got a half mill dollar medical bill.

The pain in the backside immigration is just one issue, if you do things properly and get all the other cards in line training in the US costs the same if not more than training in Europe.

Oh and if you have an issue with the school in the US you have zero chance of getting your money back. Your backside is on a plane out of the US before you can say visa cancelled.

[500ft]

Anyone have information about the flying school in Christchurch, New Zealand. I
heard that they provide intensive PPL and IFR training.



Have you considered going to New Zealand?



New Zealand is a great place to fly but it isn’t cheap. In the last few years the exchange rate has strengthened and operating costs for flights schools have been increasing. Prices do differ a little but will probably be the same or a little more than you are paying in the UK. I pay the equivalent of £125 hour to fly an 180hp Cherokee, dual in that aircraft would be £150 (plus about a £12 landing fee). I’d tell you what a medical costs now but you wouldn’t believe me.

If you want a PPL in 3 weeks probably best to go to Spain or Florida.

That said if you are young, you could consider getting a working holiday visa and come for a few months to get your PPL and hang out. Earn enough to live and use your savings for flying.

While I have never flown with these guys, I know the airfield (the club own it) and I believe the prices of pretty competitive. The aero club owns the flight school.
Air Hawke's Bay | Air New Zealand Aviation Institute Flight Training (http://www.airhb.co.nz/) (flight school site)
HB&EC AERO CLUB | Come Fly With Us (http://www.hbecac.co.nz/) (aero club site)

In the growing season there is plenty of seasonal work around if you want it. HB Fruit Growers Association (http://www.hbfruitgrowers.co.nz/employment.htm)

The weather (for NZ) is generally quite good in this part of the country (that’s why they grow the fruit.) Staying connected with the guys on the airfield could give the opportunity to do more interesting flying like beaches and farm strips.

[dera]

If you have a problem with an European school, you have the same zero chance of getting your money back from them.

Travel insurance, that includes everything you need, can be bought with one phonecall and about £30. Absolute non-issue and absolute stupidity to go anywhere inc. Spain without it.

Immigration doesn't take months, thats just ridiculous. M1 visa process is an hour filling out the forms, and a few weeks in waiting. The embassy visit is a hassle if you're in Inverness, but again is nothing to worry about.

Cost should not be the nr.1 motivator on going to the US. The ability to do it very quickly, the experience you get from it should matter more.

My all-in costs were roughly the same, as PPL would've been in most parts of Europe (just over 10000EUR all in)
But my all-in costs include renting a beachfront condo in Ormond Beach, car rental, tips for strippers in Lollipops and so on. I consider that a bargain.

[mad_jock]

If you have a problem with an European school, you have the same zero chance of getting your money back from them.

That's not true I am afraid in quite a lot of country's, UK being one of them if they are still trading or you paid by Credit card.

It will cost you less than hundred pounds which is recoverable through the small claims court.

And the main point being the school can't fling you out of the country by cancelling your visa just to get rid of the problem if you have a EU passport.

The whole thing even if you live in London is a huge pain in the backside especially if you have a job and have to take a day off to visit the embassy.

[Above The Clouds]

The USA used to be a great place to kick start your flying relatively cheaply back in the early 90's.

Now you couldn't pay me to go there, a depressing place with to many home land security idiots making you jump through hoops just to get in to the country all under the guise of terrorism, you would be better of coming to a deal with your local flying club/school/ATO or at least one in your own country and supporting your local economy, but do not pay up front to get a deal.

[dera]

If taking a day off is a huge hoop to jump through, then I think we agree to disagree on how huge is a huge pain in the backside. In my books, that is a non-issue.

I've had more hassle dealing with EASA issues and local CAA's, than I've ever had with DHS/CBP/TSA/INS or any other US-based TLA. And I've dealt alot with them, probably way more than your average M1'er...

I will support a local economy, when the local economy is worth supporting. Alot of European flight schools I've seen are simply sad, and would be better off if they just closed their doors and died away.

Avoid "doing a deal with your local flying club" at all costs. In the UK that is possibly the worst thing you can do unless your aim is to spend atleast a year on getting your ticket. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but I can't think of many clubs who's members are happy for a PPL student to effectively reserve a plane for an entire month. This might work for the "lesson per week" heros, but atleast for me, and apparently the OP, the ability to do the PPL in a few weeks is important. This means, it has to be a commercial school (or a very exceptional and rare club+instructor).

[Above The Clouds]

dera
Avoid "doing a deal with your local flying club" at all costs. In the UK that is possibly the worst thing you can do unless your aim is to spend atleast a year on getting your ticket.


I never mentioned doing a deal with a UK school.

[mad_jock]

dera, I am beginning to suspect now that you have a vested interest in US flight schools.

I have done a 2 week PPL in the UK and when full time I completed 12 3 week PPL's in the 13 months I was a full time FI.

And taking a day off and travelling to London to get a visa would mean most people would loose a days work if not 2, they would also have to get to London early morning in peak time which can cost hundreds of pounds or get a hotel which isn't cheap either or fly down again at cost followed by getting from the airport to the centre of London which is again not cheap.

If my suspicions are unfounded I apologise.

I mat add I am a airline Captain these days with no vested interest in any flying school anywhere in the world. With over a thousand hours instructional experience. You won't know the standard of your training until it either bites you in the bum or you take your flying to the next level. As someone that did training in FL I discovered the holes in my training at CPL FI training level thankfully. I then had to sort out the sausage factory pilots on their return to the UK before they were aloud to rent aircraft.

[dera]

I would love to hear where one can find these flying clubs, who are happy to book a plane for a single PPL student for 3-4 weeks.

The only realistic possibility is a commercial flight school. For an intensive PPL course you need weather that cooperates. This pretty much rules out half of Europe, unless you trust your luck.

I don't know anything about Greece, Italy is very much in the dark ages when it comes to general aviation, Spain has facilities for a course like that, but I much rather deal with CBP/DHS than Spanish ATC.

[Jan Olieslagers]

dera, if flying clubs in this country are anything to go by, I think most would be VERY happy to reserve a C152 or so full time for one student pilot _DURING_WEEKDAYS_ . Some careful negotiation might well make for an extra rebate on normal club rates, but of course the club would have to begin by accepting a foreign member.

But indeed the average club plane round here is quite in demand during weekends but scarcely flies mo-fri.

[Above The Clouds]

dera
but I can't think of many clubs who's members are happy for a PPL student to effectively reserve a plane for an entire month.


You obviously have a problem with the word "club" so lets call it a flying school or better still an ATO, "Approved Training Organisation"
I am sure there are plenty of ATO's who would rather book an aircraft for one student full time over 3 weeks rather than multiple single bookings for different students.

[mad_jock]

There are loads of them.

I know of 4 in Scotland alone.

And there are a couple in wales as well.

And I am sure there are more than a few in England as well.

The biggest killer in the UK for some schools is the wx. But several areas get the benefit of micro climates like Prestwick, Inverness, Welshpool etc.

And due to advertising rules on pprune I can't post the links but after 10 seconds I found a school doing 3 week ppl for 8250 euros landing fees included apart from landaways.

If you look at the eastern block EASA schools its even less.

Absolutely no point what's so ever going to the states.

In my day there was because we could get a plane for 35$ dry or 55$ wet. 25$/hour instruction. With an exchange rate of 1.8-1.9 to the pound. These days even the mom and pop brigade are charging over 100$ an hour with 65-75$ an hour for instruction on a C150 with ground instruction at the same rate with an exchange rate of 1.67.

The economics don't work any more either. The pain in the backside immigration stuff just adds insult to injury.

[dera]

I have zero interest/affiliation with any FTO anywhere. I did my PPL a year ago in Florida, and thus have quite recent experience with the whole process.

I would have preferred to do it in the UK, as I was living there at the time. Unfortunately the basic skills, such as answering emails, seem to be lost on most UK based operations. Out of 20 emails, getting 2 replies is normal, usually 3 days after you've sent them.

Also, weather is a much bigger factor in northern Europe, especially in the UK, than it is in Florida (let alone AZ). An interrupted intensive course is a massive pain (I guess this is my definition of massive pain in the back heh...). Yes, it is possible to do a 2-week PPL in Europe, but you will need some luck with the weather. Florida is much more consistent with its weather patterns.

When I was doing my research, I read alot about the hassle on getting the visa and so on. I found the whole process very well organised.

School sends you your I-20. The rest, SEVIS, flight school candidate registration and so on you can do yourself.
I actually flew to Belfast for my interview. I was out from the embassy at around 11AM. I forgot one paper(proof of funds, screenshot of online banking with funds available was enough), which I emailed to them later. Visa/passport was in my mailbox 3 working days after they received the email. Absolutely none of that bullying people often warn you about.
I find it very difficult to understand how taking a day off work would be a no-go item for flight training.

Flight training in the US prepares you for flying in Europe very well. This obviously depends alot on your instructor, but that is the same everywhere. There's no need to take lessons when coming back to Europe if you don't want to, the usual PPL training books are enough to understand the differencies.

The OP can decide, which place works best for his plans. I'm just giving feedback on my recent experience with the US visa/flight training policies.
To summarize my points; Avoid northern Europe (weather), and US visa is nothing to be scared of.

I don't have a problem with flying clubs, I'm a member of a couple. No chance to do an intensive course on them, not enough availability during the summer months.
Scheduling is a 4-dimensional puzzle, where you must find a slot when you, the plane, and the instructor are available, and the weather cooperates.
For an intensive course, you must solve this puzzle every day for 2-3 weeks. This summer was very nice, but a year ago, not a chance anywhere north from Paris.

Like I said earlier, money shouldn't be the reason to go to Florida. You can probably do it cheaper in Europe, that is very true. The reasons to go to Florida are the experience itself, and the certainty of getting it done in a reasonable timeframe.
For an intensive stripper-free(they are expensive there!) 3 week trip to FL, you'll end up paying probably around 8000EUR including the visa and other random costs. You can do it cheaper elsewhere, true, but again, people who go there thinking it'll be cheap, quick and involv alot of partying are the ones who come back with no ticket and huge complaints about how crap it is there.

mad_jock: In Florida those prices are way higher than average. $40-50 per hour of instruction and $20-30 for ground is closer to average. I paid for 0 hours of ground during my PPL, but I went there well prepared.

[mad_jock]

As a experienced instructor I would say your comments about certain schools communications are correct. Didn't happen were I worked but then again I was flying over 100 hours a month teaching PPL's.

Your comments about the wx are wrong. I much preferred flying in Scotland in the snow than sweating like a pig in Florida.

The quality of training is variable in the US and most require re-educating when they get back. RT, emergencys and navigation were the normal issues.

As an experienced airline Captain the whole visa thing is a complete pain in the bum and not worth the hassel. I have been though it 5 times to get to the work sim.

Cost wise as I indicated earlier there was a major benefit 10 years ago. Now their isn't.

As dera says its your choice OP.

Flat sweaty, very variable training quality different to what your going to be flying in when you get back.

Or go somewhere with something to see out the window, bit of wx so you learn what your actually doing when you inevitably have to deal with post qualification, bit more secure because you can't get thrown out if you have an argument and they cancel your visa to get rid of you.

The other bonus is you don't have to sit on a long haul flight twice sat in cattle class.

If you over run or something comes up while away it cheap and easy to get home and no problem getting back.

Just had a look at the wx I used to fly at, Hurricane Bertha coming through and it was flyable for the last three days and looks good for tomorrow as well.

Over 10k, cloud base BKN045 and 20 knts down the main runway. I would send local students solo in that.

[dera]

Weather is a matter of preference. I hate winter ops and much rather sweat a bit.

The training quality varies alot within Europe too, that is not an argument for or against either option.

Florida is flat, but it has a few interesting places to fly to. Most of northern Europe is flat too. Nothing much to see or do, flying through France, Poland or Germany for example. Scotland and Wales are pretty, but again we have the weather question there.

Fact is, it is possible to do an intensive PPL course anywhere in the world, when you find a flight school that will do that with you.
You just need to do the risk assessment regarding the weather, emergency back home-situations, and other variables in the equation. If the price offered at that training location is something you are happy with given the conditions and the assessed risk, go for it. If you have doubt about the plan, don't go. In my personal opinion and when I was making this decision, I rated the weather risk significant enough anywhere north of Paris to be a no-go.
The visa issues weren't even a consideration in my situation, like I said, it was a complete non-issue for me.
I also think Spain is very boring, FL was much more interesting as a location. Now after flying in both places, I think Spain is very boring and Spanish ATC are godawful, and FL still is very interesting.

So, for my personal criteria, I definitely made the right choice. OP has to make his decision based on his own situation.

[mad_jock]

you need to get some stick time in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD9ZggRJ1QA

That was my training area while an instructor.

And the aircraft/route in that film was my job also.

Florida is ****e.

If your going to learn to fly you only get to do it once, do it properly in somewhere your going to remember. Not some sweaty flat ****e hole.

With the budget of 14k euros he could train in Scotland buy a bike to get around on. Stay in a decent BnB or rent a holiday cottage out of season for a month near the airport. Or live in town and get the bus.

And its got the additional advantage that the beer isn't watery piss.

And if he wants to take a break for a week he can go travelling and see something decent which he will remember for the rest of his life.

In Inverness his QXC would be up to wick and Kirkwall in the Orkneys. PPL's pay thousands of euros to do that trip from all over Europe.

What was your QXC, keystone, Naples and back home? So Rednecks a nothing special airport and flat boring farm land with the occasional freeway going across it.

Found a video of flying FL I had obviously blocked out the memory of all the trailer parks.

http://youtu.be/dZIl1HzM83I

you will notice they edited out the cruise section. Because its just mile after mile of exactly the same thing.

http://youtu.be/R05a6bdBgw8

Spot the difference.

http://youtu.be/8f46HHz_PQM

Spent years looking at that view never got bored of it.

[dera]

You obviously are living in the 90's with your beer knowledge.
Modern US "craft" beers are very tasty. No-one forces you to drink the lite lagers. Compared to a modern US IPA, UK beer is watery piss.

Scotland is not everyone's "cup of tea". Yes, the scenery is nice, but most towns are, as you would put it, ****e. To me, living in a BnB in Inverness, or somewhere up there, would be torture.
Food in Florida is way better. Another matter of opinion, but I think it's pretty much universally agreed, that UK food is very much an acquired taste most Europeans have yet to acquire. I lived there for a couple of years and still feel sick when thinking about fish and chips, xyz pies and don't even get me started on the delicacies north of the border...

Besides, there's massive political risk at the moment if going to Scotland. You never know how they will vote after they watch too much Braveheart...

If you have a week to travel around, both US and Europe are great for that.

With OP's budget, he can go to Florida, and have enough money left to visit Scotland and fly around a bit.
If he goes to Scotland, he does not have money left to go to the US and fly there.

My XC was to Melbourne, a real airport, with real traffic. Not some run-down grass strip in the middle of nowhere that sees 3 planes a week. Yes, the FL scenery isn't something that will inspire much comments, but the traffic keeps it interesting, and will make you proficient in RT.
Both the US and UK are quite different from rest of Europe when it comes to RT. In the UK you become very proficient with the opening call to a new station. I still think UK ATC's favourite word is "freecall", something that is completely unknown in rest of Europe.
Nothing quite as funny as listening to ATC at LFAT, with the endless stream of G-regs flying in asking for "basic service"...

[cockney steve]

Shirley,the "reserve a plane for a fortnight.".is a canard that doesn't fly....so to speak.

PPL, say 50 hours, over 2 weeks, that's 5 hours a day WEEKDAYS ONLY

A keen stude could do an hour before work, a couple of studes could each do an hour after work and even a lunch-hour lesson could be slotted in ......Our intensive Stude could still get in his 2 1/2 -hours morning and afternoon....of course, if the weather precludes flying, then all bets are off for ALL the studes.
But to intimate that an aircraft has to sit all day ,just to accomodate 5 hours usage, is daft. the big advantage of intensive use,is the engine will spend far longer at optimum working temps and should last longer!
@Dera....most people in England, seeking a US Visa, would automatically approach the London embassy (unless there are branches in other major UK cities)......A good bit of lateral thinking on your part, to go to " Norn Irn " to beat the system.
It worked for you, you enjoyed your American flight-school experience.
A lot of others have voted with their feet.....as Mad Jock said,the only advantage they have now.is weather....but there are plenty of alternates who can offer a more appealing package, without the embassy /visa/homeland sec. / kick you out on a whim hassles. (I suspect the last is an isolated thing, pretty sure any school using this tactic to rip off foreigners would soon be exposed on the internet and be avoided.

[mad_jock]

My 2 week PPL was meant to be a 6 day week. But ended up flying everyday.

He started with 2 hours a day. First flight at 8:30 and second at 13:00

Then on the 3rd day he asked if we could do a lesson in the evening. he didn't seem tired and neither was I so we did it. Same the next

He went solo on Friday.

And then consolidation on sat when their was a plane free.

Sunday solo first thing in the morning then long nav brief and first nav in afternoon. Mon 2 nav ex's and one solo. Tue long nav ex morning QXC in afternoon. Then he did 5-6 hours a day until sat when we did a mock test and the test on the sunday.

He had done all the exams before he turned up.

To be honest I didn't really do much instructing with him, I was just there to keep things safe and demo things. He just had a natural grasp of the way things worked.

Besides, there's massive political risk at the moment if going to Scotland

:D Its not the Ukraine contrary to what one side seem to think about a popular uprising against the wicked politicians in Westminster, there isn't huge demo's, or any effect on daily life.

[mad_jock]

http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/PTO_live_activity_list_23_07_16_00%20%28restricted%20%26%20i nvalid%29.DNO_.pdf

That's another FL school that's had their approval pulled with no notice.

Be very very careful with your money, Ormond beach people lost everything they had paid up front. And I am sure that there will be a more than few in the same situation with Naples as well. Or will be looking at an expensive conversion procedure when returning with a FAA ticket only.

[Mimpe]

Try Alice Springs in the centre of Australia - its on the net. No weather issues, full navaids , and the instructor will be your examiner if you are lucky. Its Class D so you get some procedural experience.

Contact Alice Springs Aero Club. Ask for Cliff Mc Can. The cooler months are much more preferable i.e. May to September. Its a very international town.

He can take you on to CPL and IFR multi if you wish.

I did a few type ratings and ME rating there and enjoyed it a lot

[BEagle]

Currently, the thieving €urocrats are demanding huge figures to grandfather the approval of a 'JAR' approved US-based training organisation.

For example, one organisation was sent 2 bills, each for 150 hrs of €urocrat time at €260.62 per hour - a total of €78186. Yes, that's seventy eight thousand, one hundred and eighty six €uros.....

Hardly surprising they declined payment and no longer provide Part-FCL PPL training.

I doubt whether any US Part-FCL PPL training will be around for much longer. So there'll be 2 choices - either do your training in Europe or go to the US, do an FAA PPL and then convert it under whatever agreement the forthcoming BASA (EASA/FAA) permits.

The Inverness area does indeed have a good micro-climate - even that fat fool Salmond cannot change that. Plus Spey salmon - and of course some excellent whisky!

I've been fortunate enough to fly military fast jets at low level in Scotland - and the scenery really was stunning. Going transonic at 250 ft chasing Jaguars up the Great Glen was probably rather naughty though.....

[mad_jock]

Nobody gives a toss though about low flying.

There is a story about someone coming back with a tree attached to the airframe on something fast and pointy. No complaints and they started visiting the locals to try and find out where it happen.

Someone spotted on one farm that there was 6ft missing off a tree near by within 500ft of the farm house.

On asking if a jet had removed it, ayyyeeee was the reply.

Did you not think to phone us about the low flying?

No son that wasn't low for gawds sake.

When they came over the field and pulled the deer fence out with that hook thing on the back that was getting low. Yon tree is just normal.

Could be just a local story but its pretty well discussed that low jets are a lot higher than they used to be 15-20 years ago.

I am not surprised they are shutting FL down, certain country's were really not happy about the whole setup with the UK CAA.

[BEagle]

In the (hopefully) unlikely event of that idiot Salmond hoodwinking enough people in Scotland into voting for independence, Scotland will become a foreign country outside the EU. Neither would it be an EASA member state....

So what would be the effect on pilots resident in Scotland holding pilot licences, or those training for them?

As Scotland would no longer be part of the UK, one assumes that the IMC rating / IR(R) will not be valid for use as 'Scottish' airspace would be outside the UK FIR.

And who would be responsible for all the activities currently discharged by the UK CAA or NATS? Such as airspace regulation, pilot licensing, maintenance oversight.....and aircraft registration?

I'm not sure that any thought has been given to the problems which Scotland-based pilots would face, should their compatriots be stupid enough to believe Salmond's nonsense and vote for independence.