Solo flight after LST

[Treadstone1]

Hi

Can a pilot who has passed their PPL (A) LST but has not yet received their license from the CAA fly solo?

If yes, do they have to be authorised by an instructor or can they self certify?

If no, why?

Thanks in advance

[mad_jock]

you can't be unsupervised PIC until you have got the license in your hand and have signed it.

The being able to be signed out by an instructor using "solo" rules is open for a debate.

Some will swear blind that its completely illegal because you are not under going training.

Others like myself will be more than happy to do it because it keeps you current and keeps your interest up.

There hasn't been a test case go through a court to prove who is right and who is wrong.

[S-Works]

According to the CAA it is permitted. The student must be signed out by a supervising FI and must remain in the local area as it is considered consolidation flying. They are not permitted to land away as the solo cross country requirements have already been met and signed off.

I commonly sign solo students into the local area and circuit post LST having previously been of the opinion that you could not. I have the email from the CAA somewhere with the confirmation on it.

They are not allowed to self certify and the supervising FI must be on site and approved for the role in the ATO approval.

[mad_jock]

its also to note this is only good for UK ATO's operating in UK airspace and for no other EASA country's.

You will have to check with aircraft reg, ATO registration and the country of the airspace you are flying in.

[sapperkenno]

So why haven't EASA brought in "temporary licences" along the lines of the FAA's temporary airmen certificates..? These are handed out on the day, on successful completion of the test by the examiner. They are a piece of paper, valid 90 days while the FAA does the paperwork to issue the proper certificate which then arrives through the mail - usually well before the 90 days are up.

[Whopity]

About 12 years ago there were "student pilots" flying around Florida, "hour building" without a licence to their name, acquiring the hours to go on to their modular CPL courses. The schools claimed it was OK because the CAA said so, even though they were subject to FAA regulation!

[mad_jock]

sapperkenno some countrys do have them.


The UK though is dead against the idea.

[S-Works]

Switzerland has such a system and I found out recently this even applies to type ratings. I did a Type Rating skill test for a Swiss pilot a couple of weeks ago and he flew the aircraft to Portugal after the LST!!

[MartinCh]

it's 120 days validity of temp airman cert in FAA world, btw.
Shows you've done your training while ago, haha.

Yes, such regs/practice would be handy in EASA system, at least for those who get highly inconvenienced by Spanish aviation authority adding ratings to existing licence, taking months, etc. But then, how would you pitch it to the bureaucrats in power in EASA? Licence issued by 'common folks' ie examiner? It's not usually CAA staff inspector. Oh noo, power to the people. Those who test and 'sign off' the forms to be sent for issue of licence or rating, should be able to confer temp licence and privileges, a la FAA, but well, still a dream in UK and many other countries.

[mad_jock]

one country I have just signed off a temp ATPL license after completing command line training.

That's as a lowly Line training Captain with absolutely no authorisations with the country in question.

Signed the line check and the temp license form and that was it he was good to go the next sector.

Quite what a UK SAFA inspector would make of the "license" I don't know.

So as such there is nothing stopping the practise just that some country's decided not to.

There are others which are more restrictive than the UK and require a license to be reissued by the authority after ever LPC.

EASA harmonising everything my arse.

[Treadstone1]

Thanks guys, it's just another minefield..

I've been letting pilots who have passed their LST, pre license issue, fly for years...

I've spoken to 2 different ATO inspectors, or whatever they are called lately, and got 2 different answers, 1 yes... And 1 no....:ugh::ugh:

[sapperkenno]

Quite right that man, "up to 120 days" it is. I really should know better! Hopefully get back in the loop soon, get out to the States and put all this EASA crap behind me!

[mrmum]

I used to authorise "students" to go on solo consolidation flights, after passing their GFT, but while waiting to receive their PPL regularly prior to the JAA. Then I stopped doing it, as the bit of the ANO below, used to say specifically IIRC "undergoing flying training for the issue of a licence or rating", which mostly, after passing the LST they weren't.

ANO PART 6 Flight Crew licensing – Requirement for licence
* Requirement for appropriate licence to act as member of flight crew of EASA aircraft registered in united Kingdom.
Article 50
(2) A person may act as a pilot of an EASA aircraft without holding an appropriate licence granted, converted or rendered valid under the EASA Aircrew Regulation when undergoing flying training, including solo flying training authorised and supervised by a flight instructor, in accordance with the EASA Aircrew Regulation as amended from time to time.

However, it doesn't say that now, so I think bose-x is right.

Treadstone1, not surprising to see the ATO inspectors can't even come up with a consistent answer. The CAA can hardly manage to answer a difficult question at all these days!

[Whopity]

If they don't have a licence issued and hold a valid medical certificate, they can only be a "student pilot" regardless of what training/exams tests they may have completed in the past. Regulation 216/20082. Except when under training, a person may only act as a pilot
if he or she holds a licence and a medical certificate appropriate
to the operation to be performed.Therefore; the authorising instructor would need to be part of an ATO that holds an approval to conduct licence training.

[S-Works]

An accurate if slightly off tangent addition to the thread Whoppity. One would have assumed that signing a student out would be within an ATO. I can't quite see someone doing it in a private aircraft from some private strip? Mind you......

[mad_jock]

http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/519678-fly-bpl-beginning-end-9.html

Have you read this thread Bose mate?

[S-Works]

No, and no intention of wading through all those pages of drivel. Paraphrase the relevant bits please!

[mad_jock]

In summary some prat is doing exactly as you describe.

And sending planes flying minus a couple of bolts which keep the wings on.

[S-Works]

Thanks MJ, I guess its why I put the 'Mind you...' at the end!!!! Its a funny world!

[foxmoth]

An accurate if slightly off tangent addition to the thread Whoppity. One would have assumed that signing a student out would be within an ATO. I can't quite see someone doing it in a private aircraft from some private strip? Mind you......

I think if you are training someone on their own aircraft this can be done outside an ATO!

[nick14]

Not for an EASA licence rating or certificate, all training for those must be done at an ATO with the approval to conduct such courses, with appropriately qualified instructors.