Chairman of Air Ambulance trustees steps down.

[Beafer]

Word in the village pub is that the charity chief exec with the Jag wanted another pay rise, so the chairman of the charity trustee's stepped down.

A local PPL has stopped into the breach to replace the previous chairman doctor.
Chairmanship role for tech entrepreneur | Great North Air Ambulance Service (http://www.greatnorthairambulance.co.uk/news/post/chairmanship-role-for-tech-entrepreneur/)
The man on £150k.
Key People | Great North Air Ambulance Service (http://www.greatnorthairambulance.co.uk/key-people/)

Chairmanship role for tech entrepreneur
Published by Jim Entwistle on Thursday, May 22, 2014
"An acclaimed businessman from the North-East has been appointed as chairman of trustees at the region’s air ambulance.

Technology entrepreneur Professor Brian Jobling has joined the Great North Air Ambulance Service (GNAAS) in a move which both parties hope will secure the long-term future of the life-saving charity.

Mr Jobling started Gateshead-based software firm Eutechnyx as an 18-year-old and led it to become one of the world’s biggest independent video games developers with 181 staff in its offices in the North-East, USA, China and Hong Kong.

After taking on the role of executive chairman at Eutechnyx in 2013, the 45-year-old has more time to focus on his other interests, including a prominent role at the fledgling Lakes Distillery in Bassenthwaite, Cumbria, and his new position at GNAAS.

Mr Jobling is no stranger to the world of aviation as he holds a licence to fly both helicopters and fixed wing aircraft.
His new role is not about getting behind the controls of the GNAAS helicopters, however, but making sure the charity is raising enough money to keep the service airborne.

“I’m here to support the chief executive and to ensure we are raising enough money to keep the aircraft flying,” he said.

“This isn’t about coming in and making sweeping changes, it’s about continuing the great work and promoting the charity, what it does and stands for in the region.

“It still isn’t widely known that the Great North Air Ambulance Service is 100 per cent charitably funded. Our main focus is to ensure we are raising the £4m we need every year to keep the aircraft flying.”

Grahame Pickering MBE, chief executive of GNAAS, said: “We are lucky to have Brian on board and we are thoroughly excited about the future with him as Chairman of the Trustees. Since 2001, this charity has grown rapidly to become a leader in the field of pre-hospital care.

“Brian’s business acumen and technical expertise will allow us to take the service to the next level, hopefully securing the future of the charity for generations to come.”

Mr Jobling takes over the post from Dr George Murphy, who stepped aside after three years at the helm."

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I have sadly felt the need to waste my valuable time to register with this forum in order to reply to this and previous slanderous threads regarding the CEO of the Great North Air Ambulance. I have read threads on this forum in the past and some have been of interest to those involved in rotary ops...but the attempts to publically humiliate an individual are just completely pathetic and utterly irrelevant.

How can anyone start a thread with 'word in the village pub' and then proceed to pass comment about someone's personal business and finances? I'm sure if you spoke to any of the hundreds of people who's lives have been saved by this air ambulance they wouldn't care about how much anyone earns - just that there is a charity in the North of England that can deliver some of the most advanced pre hospital care in the world and continue to save lives.

No person on this forum has enough information to make such comments about someone's salary or their car, or their integrity and this is proven by the originator who just gossips in the pub. Can I suggest you get a karaoke machine, or maybe run a quiz - it'd be a lot more fun than sitting around geting annoyed about someone who must have upset you in the past.

As for the press article that you have dug up? For every one you can find to try and degrade GNAAS there will be a hundred more that show the life saving work that it does so please just stop this sillyness now. It's embarrassing. :ugh:

[Bronx]

I have sadly felt the need to waste my valuable time to register with this forum in order to reply to this
Now you're here, perhaps you could spare just one more moment of your "valuable time" to tell us the Chairman's and CEO's salary and other benefits.


No person on this forum has enough information to make such comments about someone's salary or their car
You're on the forum.
Please enlighten us.

[jayteeto]

You have poked your head over the parapet, thank you, that is brave. However your statement opens you up to some serious flak. You see, you have said in a roundabout way that it doesn't matter how much a person takes out of a charity, it's ok because they have saved some lives. Well I'm afraid that isn't ok sir.
I have every respect for the fabulous job your crews do every day, I have worked closely with them on a number of occasions. Brilliant.
That said, I actually have no idea about the accusations made here, however if true, I am sure they are legal, no slander there :-)
Are they moral? Mmmmmmm, if you have the information FACTS, why not let us know? Percentages of total money raised net and gross after external agencies are involved and percentage that goes on salaries compared to other AA charities would help.....
Remember, you came on here to argue..... So argue....

[Pittsextra]

"No person on this forum has enough information to make such comments about someone's salary"


Shurely shome mishtake.... page 22 ??


http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends04/0001092204_AC_20130331_E_C.pdf

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Maybe if this back biting and sniping can be put to bed then it won't be a waste of my valuable time.

I may be on the forum but that doesn't mean I know the answers to any of your questions. I don't, but I certainly wouldn't speculate about someone in public. The only person that has any right to discuss those questions is the CEO. Why are you all so bothered? How much do you earn? How would you feel if you personal business was being thrown around on the internet, with your character and integrity abused and insulted. Do you begrudge the salary of the CEO of cancer research, or the NSPCC, or any other charity for that matter? Does it matter what anybody earns as long as a service is delivered in the best possible way? And more to the point, is it any business of ours? As far as I understand from previous posts the accounts are made public anyway!

I have no idea how that particular charity works internally, but I can say from experience that they provide an invaluable medical response to the people of the North and surely that is the main thing?

Like I said previously - I'm sure if you had ever had cause to need this service you wouldn't really be bothered about salaries of the people who deliver it.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

jayteeto - I'm not here to argue, I'm just sick of reading nasty posts. And I'm more than used to serious flak. They aren't my crews but I'm sure they would appreciate the support you have pledged, and your recognition of their work. At no time did I say that someone has the right to take whatever salary they want from a charity account, but what I asked was why are you all so bothered. Does it matter what the CEO of Cancer Research takes? You have alluded to the brilliant work of the crews and the service they provide - surely that is the main point? I notice your occupation - you wouldn't want your salary discussed in a open forum, would you? And I shall stick my head further above the parapet and ask how much pilots take out of a charity? No, because it's none of my business. As you say - you cannot comment on the accusations. Quite simply they just shouldn't be made.

Pittsextra - you have provided a link re the salary. Cheers. So that's it - black and white.

Bronx - please see the link from Pittsextra to answer your questions.

The rest of it is just all slander. Word down the pub? Seriously? My mate Dave told me that Jeremy Clarkson had just been named as the head of race relations at the BBC.

No one has any idea why people step down - to post such unsubstantiated rubbish in public just stinks of a personal vendetta and there is no place for that anywhere, anytime. This forum is for professionals - is bitching on about people really professional?

[Mashman]

Here is a thought, maybe the ex chairman stood down because he had completed his 3 years in the post? maybe he is still an active member of the trustee board? maybe chairman is a voluntary position? maybe you need to get your facts right instead of spouting utter crap!

[Pittsextra]

Dr.Zoid.... actually my post was just in response to your view that the levels of income from some members of staff / directors wouldn't be known. When in fact they is reasonable public data available.



My views on Air ambulances were posted elsewhere but it seems that some are structured in such a way that some provide better value than others if you use income v expenditure to generate that income as a metric. It also seems as a group of charities that there is little oversight and governance around what is / are best practice on the commercial side. i.e. why is it that some charities are able to operate with little expenditure and others have a vast network of expense often with third party companies with common directors.


I'd suggest that's not cool and perhaps not serving those that donate money in the best way.


Is that fair enough?

[jayteeto]

I really don't know all the details in this case, but once again you lay yourself open. If the CEO of cancer research UK was taking an excessive salary, I DO think this is important public news. The public give money to a charity to achieve an aim, not for that money to be misused. If charity A and B are receiving the same public donations and one has 48% admin costs against 15%, the public have EVERY right to know. Guess why??????????

[Fat Magpie]

Because Dr Zoid ...it's a charity

If it were a commercial business providing a service or manufacturing something it's providing a thing for a price.
Charities run on free donations, good will. I.e people give money for free. It's a sense of doing the right thing for the community.
When I read about charity money being spent on luxuries or salaries that would make a private company blush, I start to get a little upset.

[mdovey]

Do you begrudge the salary of the CEO of cancer research, or the NSPCC, or any other charity for that matter? Does it matter what anybody earns as long as a service is delivered in the best possible way? And more to the point, is it any business of ours?

Fury over £234,000 salary of the top boss at Save the Children: Charity chiefs' huge wages must be reined in, say MPs | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2550648/Fury-234-000-salary-boss-Save-Children-Charity-chiefs-huge-wages-reined-say-MPs.html)

30 charity bosses paid more than £100,000 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10224104/30-charity-chiefs-paid-more-than-100000.html)

Salary survey: charity chief executives' pay sorted alphabetically | Society | SocietyGuardian.co.uk (http://www.theguardian.com/society/salarysurvey/table/0,12406,1042677,00.html)

It isn't just this forum concerned about charity CEO salaries; it isn't just the salaries of CEOs of air ambulance charities which are a public concern.

Matthew

[Hedski]

Jayteeto is on the money as far as I'm concerned. GNAA is clearly not the only air ambulance in the UK with serious questions to answer and from what I can see of one 'charity' I'm personally familiar with the problem is getting worse. More execs, more 6 digit salaries, more people on the boards. More questions.

But oh no, they save lives so it's ok. I'm sorry but the execs that run these charities have less part in saving lives than anybody else in said charities yet take home the fattest salaries. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.:ugh:

[Dr. Zoidberg]

OK so it seems my head is well above the parapet and firmly in the sights of Harry whatever. The salary of the CEO is available for all to see - what he spends his money on - i.e the much maligned 'Jag' is his business.

jayteeto - I appreciate your concern about me being open to flak or wide open etc (guessing you ex military) and I appreciate your honesty in stating you do not know the facts. Neither do I. But to get into the details of how different charities operate is very difficult on a forum and it is just not as simple as comparing public donations to admin costs. But like I said before - you are paid by charitable donations so would you care to disclose your salary so we can all discuss whether you are worth that amount of money or not? But I agree with what you say in that the public have a right to know how charities spend their money but the problem is that such information is sometimes not fully understood and big paychecks look offensive. Sadly charities have to be run like businesses in these times and I think we all have to accept that.

Pittsextra - your post makes complete sense and you must have misunderstood what I said originally about salaries in the public domain. Charities should be accountable but you cannot compare UK air ambulances, as all operate very differently, and there no way of quantifying 'value for money' because of this. Should people get rich from running a charity? Potentially yes - if someone has grown a charity from nothing that today serves 3 million people and saves lives on a daily basis then I suppose I believe they do deserve to be rewarded?

Harry whatever - you just discredit yourself and your opinion by your constant childish, belittling comments. 'Dr. whatever' 'the games man' 'chief pen pusher' etc - what is your actual problem? What is this really about? Are you really a concerned philanthropist? I take a leaf out of your book and make an assumption - probably not.

The Thing - air ambulances provide a service that comes at a price and people support them because they understand that such a service comes at a price. Community spirit will never run a helicopter with doctors and paramedics I'm afraid.

Hedski - Maybe this charitable world can be exploited by some and that is completely wrong, but from what I understand of GNAAS the CEO grew the charity from nothing and probably does deserve some credit.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

P.S mdovey - I'm not in a position to comment on the other charities but I appreciate your point.

[jayteeto]

£58,500.
Not a problem for me. That's a lot less than an offshore captain and a bit less than an offshore co-pilot. An average month is 180 hours on duty (45 a week). All base administration is carried out by the 2 base pilots, we wash and clean the aircraft, refuel it and also carry out handyman type jobs. We do the posting of mail and get fuel etc in our own time. Decent benefits package, by no means industry leading.
I'm not complaining about my wage at all, but do you consider it to be excessive compared to the people we talk about?
I have no issues with high wages if they are the norm in the sector. My beef is with percentages spent on non-frontline tasks. Does a company car need to be a super luxury model? Does a money sapping company NEED to do your fundraising? If they do, what EXACTLY do you do then.......... I thought that is what the charity was there to do??????
Merely providing a good service is not enough. It must be good value for money if you are a charity. If you are a private company providing a service, then game on, charge what you want, the market will judge you in time.

[Fat Magpie]

Dr Zoid, at no point in my post did I suggest those actually providing the service should work for free.
Indeed essential employes (pilots and medical staff)should be paid a competitive salary in line with their industry.

Is the Chief exec's salary competitive, compare it to the pay packet of another chief exec in a small manufacturing company similar in size to the air ambulance operation.

[cattletruck]

Does it matter what the CEO of Cancer Research takes?

Charity implies making a bit of self sacrifice, giving rather than freeloading or exploiting other people's generosity.

The CEO of a cancer organisation I once worked for was only paid a fraction of what he was really worth, and had impressive qualifications and had practiced in several countries.

The Director of Research of the same organisation, well, I let the ghoul know that he should sell his multi-million dollar inner suburban home and give back the money, then go get a real job for once in his life.

Judging from the comments made in this thread I am not the only one who thinks that charity owes nobody an exorbitant living.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Morning all.

jayteeto - I do not consider your wage to be excessive at all - but that is why you feel so validated for disclosing it - because you can compare it to the off-shore guys and in effect say how low it is on a forum that is discussing high wage packets. Would you knock back a rise to put you in line with off-shore on the basis of charitable morals?

You are absolutley right that charities must provide value for money but making sweeping judgements without knowing all the facts is damaging both to individuals and the charities themsleves - I believe fundrasing in GNAAS is not outsourced but a that a company does exist with the sole purpose of donating profits to keep the service running. If the public choose to support a charity does that not mean, by definition, that they deem it to provide value for money? Do they want to know what the CEO drives, or just care that there is a helicopter in their region that will be there for them and potentially save their life?

I'm just not sure how you can define 'value for money' in the charity sector as this will ultimately be a pretty subjective view? Percentage of expenditure on non-frontline tasks may be relatively higher than some AA but perhaps this is down to investment and future proofing? I guess we don't know.

The Thing - I'm just not sure how you can make a comparision between a small manufacturing company and an air ambulance charity? Even direct comparisions between AA charities is impossible - there are just too many variables.

[cockney steve]

Should people get rich from running a charity? Potentially yes - if someone has grown a charity from nothing that today serves 3 million people and saves lives on a daily basis then I suppose I believe they do deserve to be rewarded?

That, Sir, Is an indication of your moral bankruptcy.
To exploit the altruistic generosity of "Joe Public" by emotive manipulation,
("saving lives" " Totally self-funded CHARITY") for the purposes of self-enrichment is little short of Fraud and misrepresentation.

Whatever happened to "fair reward" and Philanthropy?....I can understand the desire for a decent, living wage for a FULL-TIME employee. This is a somewhat different scenario....the post is part time , it is a Community Service and the remuneration taken , is out of all proportion to the duties performed, the level of dedication and expertise employed and the value to the CHARITY.

In a business, even the likes of "sweatshop " shoes sold for £thousands to vain , needy women, they have a choice to not be "ripped-off" and no-one , save the fat-cat business-owner suffers.
One doesn't hear about the "poor, starving, destitute Fillipino /Korean/ Bangladeshi (insert heartstring-tug of choice) child will be deprived of an income if you don't purchase our exploitive, manipulatively-marketed purchase"

But , life-saving is a much bigger, better sell. to exploit it for personal GREED is beyond the pale.
You defend the indefensible.....Oh, and the Service in question, was well-established , long before someone chose to use it as a personal money-spinner.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

cockney steve - where on earth do I start with that? Thank you for your scathing summary of my both my morals and ethics but like I said, goodwill and philanthropy will never operate a HEMS service in todays world. But goodwill and self sacrifice was EXACTLY how this charity was started. What on earth is a 'Community Service'? Does it have to be something free or something that serves the community? There is nothing fraudulent about GNAAS! It is a charity that raises money to provide the people of the North with a advanced medical repsonse using helicopters.

The alturistic Joe Public have a choice, mate. If they support something they believe in it certainly is not your place to patronisingly suggest they have been exploited! One hears about the plight of the worlds children regularly and

The CEO of GNAAS is a full time post and I am defending somebody who had to take great personal risk to start a charity because it was something they believed in - not to get rich. There is most definitely scope for charitable management to expoit generosity but you can't tar all CEOs with that and that is my problem with all of the people who seem intent on pulling this CEO to bits - they really have no idea of the truth.

How can you possibly comment on anyone's level of dedication or what they do? You simply don' know how dedicated the CEO is - and I'm afraid that to achieve what he has achieved has taken an incredible level of dedication.

[cattletruck]

Dr Z you keep alluding to 'the truth' but still not seeking to clarify our 'wrong' ways with it. Can you describe the 'dedication' you mention, that would help us a lot.

The 60 y/o Director of Research I described in my previous post was also very dedicated, he joined the charity at age 19 and never worked anywhere else. Very dedicated yes but the general consensus was he was as thick as a plank.

Or to put it in another more practical way - he denied anyone else with better talents from performing the role.

[jayteeto]

Dr Z, once again thank you for your replies......
Would I take a pay rise? Yes I would, as long as it were to industry standard sort of levels. If someone offered to double my money because the charity 'could afford it', I would actually fight against that and the person trying to do it. Think I wouldn't??? Then you don't know me. Industry standard being the important thing here.
Thank you for clearing up the outsourced company dilemma. Unfortunately it wasn't really clear how you explained it. Profits?? Profits from what?? do they sell stuff?? What is taken off before this profit is declared?? Admin costs/wages?? Does this company have any links to staff or their families?? If so, was it tendered out or just awarded?? See where I am coming from??
If admin costs are higher "due to investment and future proofing", WTF!!! That sounds like management speak to me. However, I will take your word that it actually means something. Not sure what though, as long as that doesn't mean it goes on wages.......

[cherrypicker]

Well let's put a few true facts in this thread instead of just making things up!

1, Nobody has a company car within GNAAS, there are only pool cars which are used by the fund raising teams etc.

2, The paramedic's are all employed by the charity and not seconded from the NHS.

3, Some staff actually took a pay cut to work for the charity including the CEO, not to mention the risk of leaving a secure job to do something they believed in.

4, The CEO of GNAAS has created over a hundred jobs in this region.

5, The CEO received a MBE for his efforts.

6, It takes a massive effort by everyone concerned to raise the 4 million plus pounds a year the charity need to keep the service running.

7, The aircraft attend over a thousand emergency calls a year and make a massive difference to a lot of peoples lives.

I could go on but I have no doubt that some people will take great pleasure in turning all the positives into negatives! I would really like to see some of the people who seem to know it all get of their arse and try to provide such a valuable and complex service of which they clearly have no real knowledge of and I doubt could ever comprehend just what it takes in both personal and professional dedication to maintain.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

jayteeto - my pleasure. My motives for replying to this in the first place were to stop the gossip about an individual but I guess this is never going to happen. You can come on here and say you wouldn't accept a pay rise and that is admirable. Very noble of you and you have more in common with the CEO than you think because he did exactly the same. The difference between you is that if the charity you fly for gets into trouoble you will find another job and fly elsewhere. You have no responsibilty for the future of it. The CEO has constant pressure and stress to keep the charity moving and it's head above water, coupled with the responsibilty to it's employees. That is a huge burden and not something I personally would ever want to have to deal with.

I agree with all of you who express a problem with some individuals becoming rich from managing charities. I share your sentiments completely but at the same time I also believe that GNAAS was never a get rich scheme (initially it was a one-way ticket to being skint) but through dedication and belief in the service the CEO has built it from nothing.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Hi cattletruck - I do allude to the truth but only because it seems these threads are a haven for heresay and gossip. The dedication I speak of was the act of leaving a well paid and very secure job to start a charity that he personally believed would make a difference to the region. There is a difference than someone who joined at a young age and merely stayed there the longest, but I respect your experience within this sector.

We could all recount experiences of bad practices and work place horror stories but that would be an entirely different thread.

As I said to jayteeto, I have a problem with generalisations and gossip about an individual, but I have to say that the majority of you who are engaged in this discussion have valid points and concerns. My issue is with the people who hold personal vendettas and use this forum to spread abit of BS

[Helilog56]

Gee Dr Z..... If you dislike the rumour forum here, a novel idea would be to not attend.....:ugh:

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Hi Helilog56 - There's a big difference in professional heli industry rumours and discussing someones personal affairs

[jayteeto]

Dr Z, I agree, thank you for being patient and replying.
Cherrypicker, thank you for the information, especially about the cars. If he chooses to spend his own money on a flashy car, then good on him. Glad to hear it is not a company car.
You are absolutely correct, I for one would never have the dedication to start up an air ambulance charity, a commendable action. However by doing so, any individual must expect to be scrutinised by any tom, dick, harry or PPrune who takes an interest. Most of us on this site read about instances of less than perfect practises and quite rightly ask questions. We do because we can. Your list of good points is wonderful and very important to bear in mind when looking at the overall picture. What it doesn't answer is some of the questions asked earlier that are relevant. Trust me, I am not asking difficult questions because I have an agenda, I don't know of any of the individuals involved, just initials posted here.

[misterbonkers]

Cherrypicker - who owns the 4-door Jaguar then? GNAAS Trading?

As for MBEs. There are people out there who have been awarded MBEs, OBEs and Knighthoods that shouldn't have been. Fred Goodwin had his Knighthood taken off him and there have been plenty of people in court recently with various awards. I think personally think the honors system has lost it's way.

GNAAS, along with other Air Ambulances do do an excellent job. No doubt about it. And certainly the front line staff work very hard to deliver.

Maybe a solution would be for the Charities Commission to stipulate all fundraising material has to have the wage packages of the top three earners in the charity listed on it? Then the public can decide.

[cherrypicker]

There are no company cars in the trading company either.:ugh:

[Fat Magpie]

Interesting reading

30 charity bosses paid more than £100,000 - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10224104/30-charity-chiefs-paid-more-than-100000.html)

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/380318-ireland-air-ambulance.html

[misterbonkers]

So did Grahame buy the car himself with his own money? Or maybe there was a company car and it is no more? Perhaps it was leased back in 2010? I suppose a typical lease lasting 3 years would be up by now and then the car would be sold on by the leasing company.

Thanks for clarifying things cherrypicker!

[Dr. Zoidberg]

jayteeto - thank you too for debating this issue in a respectful and professional manner. I think you are right that such a position does leave you open to scrutiny but I do think that scrutiny should remain fact-based and not 'word in the pub' etc. (at no point am I referring to your posts here). Certainly mis practice in aviation or medicine tends to be fact based and with science and best practice guidleines to refer to, and therefore lends itself more to debate? Rattling on about someones car (which again I must point out does not refer to you) just stinks of some sort of grudge.

The problems in discussions such as these are just perpetuated by more infantile statements (misterbonkers) that I would believe had been written by some errant teenager if I thought any of them were remotely interested in our crap.

[cherrypicker]

misterbonkers you seem to be obsessed by a car and seen to think you know what your talking about when you obviously don't. My last word on the subject -the car the CEO of GNAAS owns is not and never has been a company vehicle. Get over it!

[misterbonkers]

That's good to hear.

At last some full well informed clarification on the issue. Thanks cherrypicker.

Dr Zoidberg - could you please refrain from nastyness. Thanks!

[Beafer]

I asked a couple of NEAS paramedics (road ambulance staff) about the GNAA paramedics while at the local hospital about who pays for them?

According to the NEAS staff, the government pay for the GNAA paramedic wages. They are not seconded anymore but are still paid for by the government. The road staff were unsure if the wages had to be claimed for, or they were paid directly by the NHS? Correct me if I'm wrong DrZzz.

I've also asked the DTV Airport staff about the CEO, and its not the first Jagg which was a lease car from GNAA.

DrZzz as you seem to have an interest in GNAA, can you ANSWER the following questions?
1. Is the Jagg leased or was it purchased by the CEO or GNAA?
2. Is the CEO ON £150k a year??
3. Is it true the CEO also received a commission on top of his wage at the start of his charity after being given the ex Barbour clothing Blyth air ambulance G-NAAS? I have since been told that is was a percentage on takings? True of not?

As I have previously donated to the GNAA I think its a very good idea to know where the charity cash actually goes?????

While on the subject of the separate "GNAA Trading Company" which sells goods from its warehouse. I believe the PROFITS go towards the charity. Again how much are the paid staff there?
If the trading company doesn't make a profit who's benefiting from the separate income which is paid to the staff at the GNAA trading company?

Surely the full wages should be put on their own website for all supporters to see instead of being hidden in accounts.
I have seen no accounts to say the CEO has made HUNDREDS of jobs here in the north east.
Where are they, or are we talking about volunteers like the lady mentioned in the second news article about Cumbrian Friends??
There are according to the accounts less than 6 office staff who take approx £500k each year out of the charity cash.
I might be rattling on about the Jag, but if its my money thats paying for it, I'm entitled to ask :=

[cherrypicker]

Beafer, if you are at the airport why don't you pick up the internal phone or call in the base and ask the paramedic's who pays for them instead of asking NEAS paramedic's who obviously don't know. The charity has employed and payed for it's paramedic's for 10 years! When you say DTVA staff who do you mean and how would they know? I have already put the Jag thing to bed incase you failed to notice and yes you seem to be rattling on! What the CEO is payed is his business but as previously stated look on the charity commission website if it bothers you that much. I'm not sure what your ramblings about the trading company mean? all profits are donated to the charity. The charity and the trading company employ over 100 full time staff, not sure what accounts you have been looking for in that respect? There are at least 19 office staff so don't know where you got 6 from? As I say pick up the phone instead of just rambling on!

[Bronx]

What the CEO is payed is his business

If he's paid from charity money surely it's also the business of people who donate or are thinking of donating to the charity? :confused:

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Beafer - It's Dr. Zoidberg. You left your finger on the z a bit too long and then didn't type the rest of the letters...take more time to read too - those questions have been answered on this post previously, except the whole barbour thing of which I'm not really sure what you're on about. I wouldn't take too much notice of people in the pub, or the NEAS guys outside the hospital. I hope you aren't involved in police work because if you want answers it's best to ask those who know as opposed to blokes in the pub, or road crews who actually admitted to you they didn't know all the facts (whilst actually being 100% wrong).

The money goes on providing a HEMS service 365 days a year, which is continuing to deliver the highest level of pre-hospital care in the uk. Look on the GNAAS website - read about the survivors, fundraising activities and more. The infrastructure to maintain a HEMS charity is quite simply mind boggling and to have a CEO who is capable of leading such a large organisation is going to cost. As I said previously - it's a huge responsibility, just like any other CEO.

Do people not choose to donate to a charity based on whether or not they believe in what it achieves or whether they have been personally assisted by the charity in some way? The cost to deliver a HEMS service is very high but people choose to support it because the speed with which it delivers such an advanced level of pre-hospital care is genuinely the difference between death and survival. It is up to you as an individual whether you want to donate and if your issue with the CEO means you don't now believe in what this charity achieves then that is a shame. Maybe you should focus more on the positive achievements than winding yourself up about the CEO. Like any large concern a CEO will have to paid accordingly?

Bronx - as previously stated the wages are on the internet so they are public knowledge. You appear to be slightly more pragmatic about this issue - could I direct you to the charity website or facebook for some more information about the incredible work that is done every day in the North of England...and indeed by some other air ambulances.

[homonculus]

For goodness sake Dr Z it is just a helicopter with paramedics on. It may indeed provide medical care, but there is no evidence that its pre hospital care is of the highest standard as there is no peer reviewed data. Nor is there any scientific basis as to why your helicopter is better than the next one!

Anyhow, let's leave aside the life and death bits and return to why it takes 100 employees to raise money. Why it needs a separate trading company. Why these rumours continue to circulate. Etc etc

I haven't a clue whether this organisation is well run or not but IMHO you and cherry picker are simply not answering the questions. Simply saying it isn't true doesn't help me as an impartial spectator to decide who I believe.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

homonculus - there is a huge amount of peer reviewed research that proves the benefit of a physician led pre-hospital response. One such published paper showed the benefit that GNAAS itself provided for patients with severe head injuries. But to state that a HEMS service is just a helicopter with paramedics on it only demonstrates that you haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

I must also clarify that I have never said GNAAS are better than any other HEMS service. What I said was they deliver the highest level of pre-hospital care - this is fact. There are no other agencies or services that offer a level of medical care that exceeds that of a HEMS service. Any HEMS service, to be precise.

Rumours continue to circulate because of a general lack of understanding of the infrastructure required to operate a HEMS charity, and now you have joined the debate - about what a HEMS service even is.

[Bravo73]

But to state that a HEMS service is just a helicopter with paramedics on it only demonstrates that you haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about.

You obviously haven't got the foggiest idea of who homunculus is. :rolleyes:

[homonculus]

Dear Dr Z You stated that your service provided the highest level of pre hospital care. Even if we ignore non helicopter pre hospital care, that means you are indeed stating your service is better than some or all others because not every HEMS can be identical. The Sheffield study you have rather misquoted stands alone in attempting to evaluate HEMS, but you are welcome to PM me other UK papers you claim to have read.

However, the issue isn't about whether your helicopter is better than anyone else's helicopter, but whether you are justified in your line of argument which suggests criticism is unjustified as it is not the means but the end.

Others have with some justification responded that as it is a charity the means should be above reproach. Having set up such a service myself, I felt justified in pointing out that it is indeed just a helicopter, just one link in the chain of trauma care, and not above criticism.

Sadly you have failed once again to put the rumours to bed but seem to rely on denigrating anyone who dares question you. I repeat I am none the wiser as to the validity of the rumours, nor taking sides, but given there is a finite amount of charity in the UK any waste by one charity potentially harms other charities, and in the medical field this directly hinders research and costs lives. That is why all such charities must ensure they are lean, mean and above approach which I am sure you wish to do.

[Bronx]

Dr. Zoidberg

Bronx - could I direct you to the charity website or facebook for some more information about the incredible work that is done every day in the North of England...and indeed by some other air ambulances.

Could I remind you that this is the Rotorheads forum.
It doesn't seem to occur to you that many people here know a great deal about HEMS work and several regulars to my knowledge fly air ambulance helicopters in the UK.

I don't doubt that "incredible work is done every day in the North of England" (and elsewhere in the UK) but that is not the subject of this discussion.

[misterbonkers]

As for the Jag thing - I don't believe it has been put to bed. All we know is that it would seem the Jaguar no longer exists. But it did.

What the CEO of a charity is paid is not just his business, it is the business of those people who donate their hard earned pennies and pounds to the provision of a HEMS service to deliver the highest standards of pre hospital care to the people in their community who may need it. And GNAAS do do an excellent job of that - no doubt about it - but surely as much money as possible should go to that service provision and not the 'management' of it. It is imperative that charities are not seen as 'cash cows' by some people who get involved solely to line their pockets.

Cherrypicker Dr Zoidberg, the CEO of GNAAS may not be such an individual, but there is a saying about smoke and fire and there certainly appears to be smoke. So the best response - stop biting, start doing, look at things proportionally - it's not a London based charity it's oop norf so London based charity wages DO NOT apply. Have integrity and take a good look at your CEOs salary - ask the charitable donors what they think if need be. Publish open accounts and details for GNAAS Trading (on similar lines to charity account publications). After all - your not in competition with another local business! The CEO should be proud of what has been achieved and his reward should not be excessively financial. It is clearly the view of several people that it is or may have been excessive.

[Beafer]

Laptops been broken but back up and running now, so in answer to Dr zz..
Is there any news about the charity chap who likes his luxury cars, Jaag man?

Has he put his £150,000 salary, and other office staff "mega wages" on their website so the public can see where their charity money is really flowing??

Nope, I didn't think so. He only needs the trustees who he invites to join his board, to sign off on his yearly accounts which he then files with the Charity Commisiion, and Bobs your uncle...he's nearly in the Times rich list. :yuk:

[blackprince]

I think these questions need to be asked. Several of us on here know of an AA Charity that has always chosen expensive solutions for its basing and fundraising activities even when it has been offered more economical choices. Also it stated in its published fund raising literature, three years ago, that the helicopter burns £600 worth of fuel per flying hour. Something seems fishy here.