Which iPad mini to get...?

[BARThompson]

I am shortly going to invest in an iPad mini for use in flight, mainly to run SkyDemon. I therefore have a choice of setups to choose from and am keen to get opinions of those who have used any of these..

1. Get a Wi-Fi only version and connect it to my iPhone 5 for GPS and mobile reception

2. Get Wi-Fi only version and buy an external GPS receiver

3. Get 4G version and use built in GPS receiver and SIM card for connectivity.

My main concern is having reliable GPS reception. The main issue here is the reliability of each of the above methods. Is the iPad's built in GPS receiver sufficient, or does it need supplementing when in the cockpit?

Any thoughts and advice welcome!

[dirkdj]

I just bought a third Nexus 7 tablet for my daughter. I run Skydemon using the internal GPS receiver, so far very good reception, in use for over a year. Skydemon for Android has greatly improved during that time. Paid 213 € this morning for a Nexus 7 (2013) with a slightly damaged shipping box. very good value for money; excellent screen quality.

[SidT]

I have the ipad mini 4g version and use both Sky-Demon and Air Nav Pro extensively.

Neither has yet had a satellite drop-out for more than a few seconds - and even this is extremely rare.

I have used it RAM-mounted in a C-152, C-172 and PA-28 Arrow and it has worked like a charm for me.

Remember you don't have to get a SIM for the 4g version, it is not needed for the GPS to function and you will still get the Wi-Fi connectivity when suitable wi-fi coverage is available. You only need the SIM if you are actually going to use the cellular network for data.

Not sure how good the iPhone 5 is at GPS (probably ok) and its connectivity through to the ipad mini (possibly not so good) so can only guess at option 1.

One of my flyer colleagues uses a wifi-version with an external gps receiver and also has no problems.

[The Member]

I have the 4G version and it works well in my Chippie.:ok:

[Fake Sealion]

How do you connect a iPad mini to an external receiver?
Assume this works also with Air Nav Pro not just SD?

[A and C]

I would go for the 4G iPad as this will give you the ability to file flight plans and get weather without using your iPhone ( a link that I have found unreliable).

The IPad GPS is quite good and as long as the GPS cover is OK it works accurately up to 500 Kts, that should give you sufficient margin for the (excellent) sky demon app.

The iPad works well as long as it can see the sky, it is faultless on my Robin and a B737-300 but occasionally drops of line in Cessna's and fails to work most of the time in B737-800's ( no eyebrow windows ) I suspect the reason for this is masking of the satalites by the airframe.

I am thinking of putting the iPad mini with a high class GPS receiver in my Robin when it gets an Avionic upgrade to use as an EFB, in connection with the Jepp view it gives the aircraft position on the en-route charts and automatically selects the taxi chart at the ground speed falls below 40 Kts !

[The500man]

I'm not sure the iPhone will work as a GPS receiver. I can connect my wi-fi iPad Air to my iPhone 5s using Bluetooth to share the iPhone's internet connection but things like maps that require location services don't seem to work with no wi-fi. The other problem would be having to mount the iPhone somewhere it could pick up satellites in your aircraft in addition to mounting the iPad. It may be cheaper but I can see the hassle being far greater.

[BARThompson]

I think I will go with SidT's suggestion and get the 4G version but without the SIM card initially. This avoids the monthly costs but gives me built-in GPS. If I find the signal unreliable, I can always get an external GPS receiver later on.

I can then use my iPhone 5 for any data I need when Im out and about (likely to be on the ground rather than in the air though) - Out of interest, for those that do use data in the air, how useful is it?

[thing]

I use Skydemon on an iPhone 5C and it works just fine. I clip it to my kneeboard. No idea if it's updating during flight, suppose it is. I wouldn't get too hung up with the bells and whistles, it's just there for a quick glance as another nav aid and TBH I don't usually bother with it if it's somewhere I've been a few times before.

[wb9999]

I can then use my iPhone 5 for any data I need when Im out and about (likely to be on the ground rather than in the air though) - Out of interest, for those that do use data in the air, how useful is it?

It depends how high you fly, and where you fly.

In my experience, the signal tends to be intermittent from as low as 1,500 feet. I've tried to get METARs and TAFs in the air using the internet, but had very limited success. It's probably easier just to ask ATC to get the weather for you.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

I raised a similar question a few weeks ago and the concensus was to use a WiFi/3G iPad MINI (without a sim card).

I've since bought a reconditioned iPad MINI from the Apple Store (saved £50.00) and installed SkyDemon.

All works fine..

It will be interesting to try the same App with my iPhone 5 and try that.

Kind regards

FOK

[ChickenHouse]

Step zero: I compared different tablets and used borrowed from friends quite a lot before deciding for myself to hang my life on an iPad. Sustainable operations is vastly better then the uncertainty of android devices.

Step one: I recently changed from a first gen iPad mini to the Retina one for better readability in flight. I would definitely advice to go Retina and yes, the smallest 16GB version will do fine.

Step two: GPS. Your option 1 - don't use tethering in flight, you have to maintain two devices up and running = two time possible faults and what if aunt annie called for 45 minutes before T/O and the iPhone is empty? Your option 2 - same, you have to maintain two devices and connection must be functioning all time. Support for the external GPS vary from time to time and from update to update. I would not like to go that hazzle tango. So I advice to go 3 - versions with internal GPS. In that case you have a 100% standalone version as a backup plus you could connect to external GPS, in the unlikely event of reception problems. You could also take the solution whith you on other planes. Additional advice: slide a SIM card in, even when mobile data is disabled - the GPS fix does work better, if there is a mobile carrier connection, i.e. first fixes are very much faster with a SIM inside.

[SidT]

One additional note... I have found the battery life on the latest 4g Retina version far better than my old iPad mini... not a big problem if your aircraft has a power socket, but if not then this may also be a consideration.

[slam525i]

FWIW, I was struggling with the same issue as well.

In the end, I bought a WiFi only iPad with a Bad-Elf Pro GPS. The Bad-Elf does tracking, 10Hz refresh, and can connect to 5 external devices simultaneously, so passengers can follow the flight on their own devices. Plus it's easy to download the log afterwards. The battery life is so long it's a non issue. Start-up is faster than any GPS I've ever owned, including my primary Garmin Aera, and you can place the Bad-Elf on the dash for best GPS reception. (You don't have to. I got perfect reception on the passenger seat.)

The cost difference between the 4G and Wifi only was almost enough to pay for the Bad-Elf.

[ChickenHouse]

Bad Elf is a nice device, but before purchase, check your navigation app does work with it. There were issues i.e. with AirNavigation Pro.

[robin]

Personally, unless you have a definite need for iThingys above and beyond the use of SD - get an Android tablet and save money.

I was given an old iPad and just discovered that the operating system is stuck on v5. All new apps require at least v6 or v7 so it won't update and some apps won't work unless I buy another more up-to-date iPad (£500 or so)

At least SD is still working though I won't be getting later improvements.

On the other hand, a new Nexus is around £200 so even if the OS changes, I'm still £300 ahead

[Fake Sealion]

Bad Elf is around £100 for the plug in version. Seems to work ok but you can get a 2012 Nexus 7 for that money.
Personal choice I suppose.

[slam525i]

Sorry. I may have been to Canada-centric. In Canada, the only electronic charts we can buy are from Foreflight, and Foreflight is only available on the iPad. I wish we had a choice. :ugh:

[PPLvirgin]

Interesting thread;

having just passed my PPL, my next step is safety in GPS. I know most ppl i have spoken to use one form or another of sky demon.

Several months ago when doing some research, i saw skydemondoing their App and their own GPS - i was thinking of going this way. I can't find a standalone Skydemon GPS now, just their APP subscription.

Has something happened or have I in my little experience simply got it wrong?

[Desert185]

64GB WIFI and cellular

If you need a separate GPS receiver (and you probably will if flying a high wing especially at higher latitudes) get a Bad Elf GPS Pro Bluetooth receiver (if your nav app is compatible). Best price I have found is via Amazon.com: Online Shopping for Electronics, Apparel, Computers, Books, DVDs & more (http://www.amazon.com).

[LowNSlow]

I've got a GNS 150 and a first gen iPad mini with no GPS. I had some initial Bluetooth issues but they sorted themselves out and the combo now performs flawlessly with Skydemon. The battery in the GNS lasts for ages and is easily and quickly recharged from the ciggie lighter socket.

[jaycee46]

I've been using a wi fi only i pad mini for just over a year, with SD installed. I use a Garmin Glo GPS receiver, and have found that combo works fine. Never had any battery time issues, as slam has already stated. The only downside is remembering to take it out of the aircraft, as it is only the size of a Swan Vestas matchbox - remember them - and it can be easily missed on the combing!

My flying buddy uses a 3G i pad with a sim card on SD, and he VERY occasionally has a GPS reception problem, particularly at higher altitudes. I'm not an expert in these dark arts, but a bit of research on t'interweb implies that earlier i pads internal GPS receivers also used the GSM mobile network to improve their performance. I appreciate that this may not be the case with the current generation of 'i tech'.

[thing]

The only downside is remembering to take it out of the aircraft,I have a 2000 which I used to use with my iPad. I lost count of the number of times (in fact make it every time I used it) that I left it stuck to the top bit of the windscreen. I eventually wrote in red in big letters on my kneepad 'Get the ******* Glonass.'

I still used to leave it in...

[ChickenHouse]

Once we get GPS tracking chips implanted after birth, we hope it's a Bluetooth one we can use for flying?