Flybe Wings 2014

[Scott Duch]

Flybe and CTC are to launch their second Flybe wings cadet scheme.

Applications open on the 1st of April.

Flybe Wings | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/flybewings)

I have just completed my training on the initial Flybe Wings course at CTC and had a great experience!

[OutsideCAS]

It was only November last year that redundancies in all areas (500?) were announced, so seems strange to be recruiting in such a short time period?

[G-F0RC3]

Welcome news, but it's still going to be too steep for most who don't have help from relatives/friends.

Finding £65k is almost as difficult as finding £90k. And the sponsorship amount of £23k funded by Flybe essentially has to be repaid to them over the first five years of employment (via a salary sacrifice scheme). If you also have to service a £65k loan on top of that then good luck keeping your head above water on a Flybe FO starting salary. :ugh:

At least they fund the type rating entirely (although with a 3 year £13.5k bond). However, getting a Dash 8 TR will not necessarily help a great deal if it's jets you eventually want to fly, and the process of moving up to heavier stuff would - therefore - be expensive.

For all the above reasons I don't think this would be something for me. All the best to those who do go for it though! ;)

[momo95]

FLYBE ????

Alarm bells should be ringing everywhere !!

[Lakhan]

According to ppjn they are recruiting, however it's quite weird after all those that recently have been cut??

[Fostex]

Hiring new ( read cheap ) cadets on new ( read poor ) T&Cs is better business sense that maintaining mature crews.

Sad. :ugh:

[sam92]

Very annoyed at Flybe going down this route, what happened to recruiting good old modular students getting the opportunity? Now it appears they are going down the cash-cow route for wannabes throwing money at them!!

[BaronVonBarnstormer]

Are flybe running this scheme with any other FTOs? Their site wasn't clear whether they are or not.

[Whiskey Bravo]

I don't see how this can possibly be good news. First they make a load of crews redundant and then they are starting a cadet scheme?!

If you desperately want to give money to CTC and probably by inference to your future employer, then it might be good news!

If they are really short of crew, which I understand from reliable sources that they are, then why not look at people already type rated, or heavens forbid the 100's of qualified pilots already out there? Obviously they cost more money... Good business sense but hardly a glowing endorsement for future long term career prospects. What happens, after you fork out 60-70k? You fly for a few years and the same happens?

Flybe used to be one of my favourite carriers, now I would be equally as hesitant in supporting their business with my hard earned as I would be Ryanair.

[Fanor]

This is wrong. They first get rid of 180 pilots then start up their cadet scheme. Sounds like trying to get cheap labour. Also there are plenty of newly qualified pilots out there who would love to join them...yet they are left In the cold. Awful

[Contact Approach]

I'm pretty certain my airline just purchased quite a few of their slots due to their current financial woes. Along with the recent redundancies i'd stay away from this one like the plague.

Would be interesting to go along just to listen to Lee answering these questions...

[Coffin Corner]

Stick to the facts please chaps.

The company had to take drastic measures or it would not be around to offer a scheme via CTC, or offer non type rated jobs, or anything else. The business needed those cuts and fast. Pilots/cabin crew/engineers/management weren't the only cuts they made. The company is actually looking very healthy indeed in a short space of time and there is a requirement to start up these schemes again. The colleagues who left the business all have the opportunity to return to the business and maintain their old seniority place should they want it and Flybe recruit. All those who left and wanted to go on the list to return could do so. Remember the cadets won't be online this year, or next year. This is looking into the future a little bit. Also why is it being dissed? Flybe is one of the genuine employers out there. Everyone else including BA are doing these schemes so what is wrong with Flybe doing it? Too snobby to fly a turbo prop? Don't want a genuine way into the industry? Not many cadets in this industry are offered a full time contract from day one. Pension, type rating, uniform, duty pay, crew food, good career prospects, settled base, car parking, the list goes on. The future is looking very, very good here, but the simple fact of the matter is nobody is forcing anyone to do it. Good luck to those who apply.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Type Rating: You don't have to be a genius to realise that the Q400 is a thin rating as regards to jumping straight onto a heavy or other Boeing/Airbus job. But my one counter to this is this past 12months has proved it can be done as a lot of Q400 guys have moved to Jet2, easyJet, Monarch, FlyDubai, Aer Lingus, Sun Express this list goes on. So as I say it is not the best Type on the market, but you can do so if you want.

Did any of those stay in the left hand seat?

Career Prospects: Whilst this has been stagnant the past few years, I anticipate some fairly fast commands and moves into training etc. The money at Flybe is hard at the start of your time, but its does get a bit better. It is nowhere near as well paid as the likes of easyJet (on a proper contract), Monarch etc but i nearly spat my breakfast out with the Jet2 comparison, which is one of the worst paid Boeing jobs in Europe. But thats another thread.

No different to any other airline then, not really a big carrot when you take in to account everything else. As an example, the worst paid Boeing job in Europe has a £24k uplift for a trainer. As a none trainer you will net a minimum of £1k a month more at Jet2, oh and do about 450 hours a year.

Duty pay: Yes. £1.90 an hour paid for all the time you're away from base. With the rosters having a fair bit of night stopping you earn this for 24hrs when away from base. Not a lot of money I agree but does add up a little bit if you're away.

Yes, you're correct. It's been £1.90 for a decade. As an example at the worst paid Boeing job in Europe it's £2.10/hour, not a lot more but the minimum sector pay is £19. So for example the shortest duty at Jet2, a 4 hour shift with 2 sub 1 hour sectors, will earn you more than a 24 hour, 4 or 6 sector, night stop, duty at Flybe.

Settled base: Bases have been thrown into turmoil the past 12months and this is the final week for those bases sadly. With the greatest respect this can only improve as the airline moves forward. But personally my bases moral is a 100% improved and a great place to work.

I hope it continues to improve but their track record suggests it will do otherwise. 4 or 5 forced base changes in 10 years is not unheard of.

I hope Flybe continues to improve but they still face the same problems (minus the expensive pilots) that they have over the last forever, and yes I know management has changed. It's a long way up from the bottom.

You're right though. I didn't earn 20 grand more than I would have at flybe it was about 22, another pay rise next month will see that rise to over 26k.

non bias

Oh, come on! Out of interest have you ever worked for any of the other companies that you mention.

[TizerTheAppetizer]

Pilotfromsheff13 and all just to sit in a dash.

With the greatest respect, I can't believe the snobbery shown by some people who don't even have a fATPL, and yet they're already turning their noses up at turboprops.

Some pilots actually prefer TPs thank you very much.

[Contact Approach]

Flylo is doomed. They've sold their main access to london to us, we've inherited their routes and started new ones that cover many of theirs. Not what you want as a regional? Alarm bells.

[Otto Throttle]

Back to the OP;


Have a quick trawl around this forum to see what Flybe did to the previous sponsored courses that were chopped due to the company's financial difficulties and ask yourself what your financial Plan B is should recent history repeat itself.


Until the company posts strong financial results showing a return to healthy profits, personally I would sit it out for a year or so, or find another way in.

[RHS]

As for turning your nose up at a TP, most people I graduated flying school with would be overjoyed to get a look in at flying a battered piston *gasp, shock/horror* single never mind a glass cockpit 78 seat turboprop. It should also be pointed out Flybe don't make cadets join on a "cadet" pay scale or pay for their TR.

Be under no illusion this is an interest free loan, but it's a damn sight safer investment than going self sponsored paying for an Airbus TR and then earning €1000 a month somewhere.

If you want to apply make informed decisions and do so. If you don't, then don't post complete nonsense, just think thanks but no thanks. :ugh:

[Lord Spandex Masher]

It's not snobbery it's career sense.

If they were roughly the same price would you buy an Aston Martin or a 2CV?

[RHS]

But they're not roughly the same price. One is £69,000 pound leading to a job with an airline that provides a free (ok bonded) TR and a starting salary of £28,000 on a permanent contract.

The other involves a self sponsored Hail Mary £25,000 airbus/Boeing TR (after already paying £100000 for the course) that in most cases leads to nothing and in the lucky few to a €1000 a month "contract". If you want to take that gamble though, yes your TR may be more marketable a few years down the line, and you can apply to that A380 DEFO position. If that's the decision you make, I wish you all the very best!

Once again, why do we have experienced pilots engaged in a mud slinging match, when this should be about helping guys just starting out make good decisions? (Baseless rumours and ill informed opinions about companies do not aid decision making)

[Bealzebub]

Isn't the argument rather academic? The type rating is for the type they are offering the placements on. The idea being that you obtain employment with that airline on the type of aircraft that they fly. Paying however much for a type rating is little comfort if you are left looking at nothing more than that type rating every month rather than a wage slip and a logbook full of rapidly increasing hours.

[FANS]

Flybe is in a better position than it was, i.e. it is still a going concern.

Before Flybe made its drastic redundancies etc., however, people did not get that much warning and therefore you can’t be sure of what’s around the corner.

That’s true of all airlines, but Flybe has a market cap of £0.3 billion versus nearly £7 billion for say EZY.

Yous pay your money...

[Stage5]

Agreed on the better to be paid line than not. That said the hours do not rise that fast at all in Flybe. The number of landings however will rapidly build up.

Can't complain too much about 'Feels Like You Are Being Exploited'. They paid for my training and paid me to leave. Far better than FR.

I wish them luck and those who apply. On a serious note I would personally explore and exhaust the BA FPP first. Given the under crewing at BA on the SH LHR, some wings cadets who are not airline associated may soon get a very lucky break.

Fingers crossed for all those looking for jobs.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Really. If you had the choice to fly a jet in your current situation you wouldn't?

there's a whole bunch who just wants to go from zero to hero and straight into a lovely fandangled shiny lovely cosy wubbly jet and bypass the rest, and in doing so they also have the opinion that aTP is way beneath their SkyGod like prowess.

But like the Murphy's...

[drivez]

LSM

No actually, and I know many will scoff at this, but I would choose the dash. Right now I am developing as a pilot massively, flying a complex aircraft, on multiple sectors in the weather. And yes it does break sometimes, and at those times there are decisions to be made.

In the future, things may be different, but right now the turboprop experience is invaluable and is giving me a solid grounding for the rest of my career. The dash IS a challenge to fly well, but incredibly rewarding.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Drivez,

Everything you've written can be equally applied to a jet, except operating a jet is arguably more relevant to your future (unless you want to stay on a TP forever).

If Flybe had gone tits up last year who do you think would have fared better?

[Stage5]

You must be inundated with applications from highly experienced Airbus and Boeing pilots then, probably so many that you don't need to run a partial sponsorship course...

Perhaps more heavy time/rotary/FJ ex RAF peeps.

Bit harsh though LSM. The Dash is better than shelf stacking or bar work when leaving Oxford/CTC/FTE etc etc. many opt just for that. Others really give it a shot and hold out by working as performance engineers in a flight ops department and put what they learnt to use. Then those with cash or equity to burn go for P2F TRs. It is hard o say what the right route is. Frankly it is all personal choice.
I know of P2F Ryan boys and gals in BA/EK after 4/5 years and BE gals and boys in MON/FZ/BA/EZY/LS after 4/5 years. Some have paid for TRs, some have not. Some have 4 TRs some have 1 or 2. But not one person I know if has paid for more than one, if any.
The makings of your career are in your hands only and no one else's.

For those interested in the three schools mentioned, they really are all the same these days. Very very little between them. Just do lots of research and pick the one best for you.

[EMB-145LR]

What chance of Flybe opening up for experienced bods like myself? I'd kill for the chance to move back to the UK, be based at a smaller regional airport and see out the remaining 35 years (touch wood) I have left in this industry with Flybe. I have nearly 3,000 hours, 800 on turboprops, 2,000 jet. Been flying in and out of some of the world's biggest and busiest airports on the other side of the pond, as well as some much smaller, even uncontrolled ones to boot. I'm about to move on to the EMB-175, but have a feeling that even with plenty of time on type it would be hard for me to get a call from Flybe because I haven't recently come out of one of the 'big three'.

[Jwscud]

It's a shame that Flybe no longer take on fresh pilots. I just missed out on a Q400 job with them when I had just got my IR (modular). They used to. E one of the few companies that hired modular graduates, and they are few and far between. They used to ask around their associated flight schools for recommendations but I understand they no longer do so. I believe they asked for people in recent practice - 50h in the last 6 months.

Speaking as someone who ended up in the RHS of a 737 with a little over 500tt I can say that my future opportunities are indeed probably better these days, but as an unemployed chap with a CPL/IR I would have been delighted to work for Flybe.

To be fair, as someone for whom a debt free modular existence was the only realistic path, I am not a good opinion former for the integrated moon-chasing types.

[Stage5]

Airbus (for example) time and look at the future. What do you think they'll want to do and why? They'll choose more relevant experience and greater future earnings. End of. I don't think the carrot of free parking and uniform will change their mind when they realise they'll be stuck on a Dash for at least five years.

When the scheme falls flat on it's face due to lack of applicants you will be vindicated. But as you have harped on about this for years (sounding like '5 stripes' in the process) I doubt you will be. The scheme will run as applicants who meet the requirements will be selected. If you really want to be a barrier, go to the flyer show and confront the flybe team head on. You will have the perfect forum for change.

[doratheexplorer]

Why Integrated now. Why no more MPL Flybe?

[Stage5]

Flybe’s Captain Ian Baston also presented on the day, and had some positive news from Flybe, which as recently as February this year, was announcing redundancies and a reduction in fleet and base size. Over 200 pilots have left Flybe in the last 14 months. Baston explained, “That’s just how fast this industry moves. We were caught on the hoof at the end of 2013, and had no choice but to restructure, to build confidence in the business. 200 pilots took voluntary redundancy and we reduced our entire workforce significantly; these restructuring moves generated cash and confidence from the city. But we have turned a corner and have now shown we can move forward as a company. Pilot recruitment at Flybe will be increasing from now on.”

Things appear to be on the up again.

[ashpure]

By reading through the comments on this forum, it seems almost everyone is very apprehensive and negative about this program.

Just wondering have many people applied/ have those who have applied heard anything back from screening etc?

Cheers!

[Flybal]

Hi,

I got the same feeling by reading through this forum.

However I did my own research and applied.

I understand the financial situation of the company better and feel comfortable applying.

This is a great opportunity!

Did you apply?

[ashpure]

Yes I too did my own research and applied for it. I applied last tuesday, still waiting to hear anything back from them.

Have you heard anything back from them?

[smatticus]

Hi all.

So I went through the BA FPP and got through to the final round but didn't quite make the cut. I was considering taking the direct ATPL Wings course with CTC, but started to hear from independent sources of the unspoken but inherent risks involved (P2F, airlines only offering temp contracts with reduced terms etc). Since I am effectively at a loose end, I decided to apply for this partly to make an honest attempt to explore all avenues of airline "sponsored" entry into the aviation industry, but also to try and keep myself fresh and ready for upcoming assessment processes such as easyjet, Monarch and BA.

I've been reading the posts here, and I understand the concerns that some people have (we should have a better idea of Flybe's most recent financial performance within the next two months), but I have a question. People have been acting as if a TR on a TP aircraft is a one-way avenue, but surely if you have a full ATPL and enough hours under your belt, you can still go and get another TR further down the line if you need or want to? I understand that it's a lot of money on top of what you've already paid, but surely it isn't the be all and end all?

[RTN11]

People have been acting as if a TR on a TP aircraft is a one-way avenue, but surely if you have a full ATPL and enough hours under your belt, you can still go and get another TR further down the line

It's more that when you go on looking for other jobs down the line, TP is nowhere near as valuable as jet time, so a 737 or A320 rating is far more marketable for future employment.

But it's a job, and the rating comes with it, so I wouldn't be moaning.

[cygair]

Hi all,

I'm not understand why some people have a negative view on this program. I discussed with current pilots, and by their views, with the actual situation of crew employment, this program not seems to be an scam. Yes the salary isn't like BA or EasyJet, but I think flying turboprops is a normal step in a commercial pilot life. All pro-pilot who I met started their career on a turboprop like the Q400 or with a piston like a DC3 for older's.

Thats why I applied, wait and see ...

[Laurapintas]

Hi guys
Just applied to the FTE Flybe MPL.
Does anybody have information about this programme? I'm trying to find the total flight time during the training but I didn't find anything.

[cygair]

Hi Laurapintas,

The flybe cadet program isn't a MPL but an ATPL integrated program :

Training | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/europe/courses/cadet_programme/training)

In my memory you'll have around 200 hours of flight at the end of the CTC courses.

Bye.

[magicmick]

The CTC Flybe scheme is CPL and MEIR with MCC but the FTE scheme is MPL.

[Laurapintas]

Oh, ok that's right!! Already found a thread about the MPL :ok:

[magicmick]

Apply for both (and the Easyjet scheme) good luck.

[cygair]

Hi all,
For your information FTE announced the may 6th a new opportunity to work with flybe ! Training will start in the beginning of september.

New FTEJerez/Flybe Part Sponsored Airline Pilot Scheme announced | FTEJerez (http://www.ftejerez.com/news/new-ftejerezflybe-part-sponsored-airline-pilot-scheme-announced)

[AdrienT06]

Hello, what is the MPL success rate at FlyBe ?

[Tullya9]

I have been lurking in the PPrune shadows for years now and this is likely my first and last post. I am one of the lucky few who have recently been selected by Flybe and I feel some thank you's are in order to the community here.

A sincere thank you to the cynical experienced operators who hijacked this thread turning it into vs EZY debate and soothsaying that Flybe will soon be doomed (I think we can all agree they have most definitely successfully rebounded).
Your criticisms no doubt scared off a number of naive potential applicants who would have been unfamiliar with the eternally pessimistic mentality you old boys seem to have of "if it's not my airline/not the way I did it, it must be :mad:".

And an equally sincere thank you to the wannabies who turned their nose up at this opportunity of their own accord because they would be landed on a turboprop. That attitude of arrogance and entitlement is one of the reasons airlines are running schemes like this, to have their own screening process to make sure no one like that slips through the net. In my opinion, if you think a first job on a turboprop is beneath you, you don't deserve to be in the air.

I am and will be eternally grateful for this gift. There is no way I would have been able to raise the finance for a full mpl on any of the other schemes so the £23k is going an awful long way for me. And I am excited and grateful as hell to get on any aircraft, probably even moreso for the dash. I'm not thinking about whether it's a marketable TR or not, im just happy to be here right now and see where my career takes me.

To those who applied and unfortunately didn't make it, keep at it. I have been trying for a number of years and have only now got lucky. As long as you have the aptitude and attitude, it's all just a numbers game and yours will be called eventually. It's an emotional roller coaster of rejection but keep doing things to prove your motivation and eventually the pair judging you on the other side of the table will say yes.