RAF Lakenheath could close? EUCOM downsize

[chopper2004]

The struggle to downsize EUCOM - News - Stripes (http://www.stripes.com/news/the-struggle-to-downsize-eucom-1.270465)

Does not look too promising in particular by far and the thoughts in place probably could not come at a worse time, re Crimea.

Cheers

[Foxed Moth]

Apparently Sweden is having second and third thoughts about spending less on defence and its politicians are talking about joining NATO and building more submarines.

They have not forgotten the simulated strike carried out in March last year and that, even though Moscow gave notice, the Swedes were unable to scramble a single Gripen and a couple of Danish F-16s from Lithuania were substituted.

It seems entirely plausible that the West should shed equipment, bases and personnel as if peace has broken out all over the planet and Putin has retired to write his memoirs.

[Party Animal]

Excellent post chopper with a link to a very well written article. If I had the time, I'd bring it into the 'War with Russia' thread. But I haven't, so will just hope interested parties read across.

[ORAC]

Latest budget plans to chop one of the 3 Sqns at LK anyway - probably the F15Cs*. (http://www.ibtimes.com/military-budget-2015-air-force-cuts-see-air-national-guard-hit-hard-10-predator-drones-f-15c-eagles)

*The overall plan issued by the Department of Defense will be to cut the Air Force’s fleet extensively over the next five years. This will see the 50 F-15C Eagles retired in 2015.............Active-duty aircraft will be hit first with approximately 21 overseas F15-C Eagles to go with another two from Nellis Air Force, Nev..............

[Roadster280]

If Lakenheath closes, is there really any point in keeping Mildenhall? Not considering aircraft types so much as the logistic and economic effort required to maintain one airfield in an island country. Wouldn't it be better to either keep both or close both?

In my lifetime, major airfields at Bentwaters, Woodbridge, Upper Heyford, Alconbury and Greenham Common have gone. When the US had such a major presence, of course it made sense in a logistic sense, but I can't see how one base alone can justify the cost. It would be better to reopen Bitburg!

[skua]

Key line in the article cited in the OP:
"No such congressional approval is needed to close or consolidate bases overseas"


Robert Gates, the recent SoS Def, puts in very black & white terms in his memoir Duty, the aggravation created by Congressmen when he tried to cut bases, manning, or procurement on their home turf.


Russia probably cannot afford its current level of defence spending, but at least Putain gets a lot of political reward for his roubles.

[Martin the Martian]

Arguably Mildenhall could also close and its roles and responsibilities could be moved to Fairford.

Assuming that the 493rd's F-15Cs do go, could the two F-15E squadrons be accommodated at Mildenhall, thereby allowing the continued use of Lakenheath's existing domestic site? Fairford could be brought into more regular use, hosting the current ferry/transit/staging flights that currently use Mildenhall.

Just a thought, no idea what the feasibility is.

[chopper2004]

MM,

Last year when the 'Hall had an F-15 squadron for a few weeks during the summer, as the runway was being done up and IIRC, the other two squadrons were out on deployment. SO tis possible but there's no HAS's there unfortunately.

One base on the Scenario 1 aspect of cuts appears to be oop on the Moors, considering its importance...and whats there - might as well close the Doughnut and call it a day if they are going to do that.

Plus the Budget cannot be too bad as might see a return to the Philippines to curb the Chinese aggression in the region.

Philippines to Let U.S. Build Military Facilities on Bases - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-14/philippines-to-let-u-s-build-military-facilities-on-its-bases.html?cmpid=yhoo)

Cheers

[Melchett01]

MtM,

My thoughts exactly. Given the size of Fairford I think it is too useful to close - especially if the USAF wants to rationalise elsewhere. So if you had to close anything, then moving remaining assets into Fairford makes sense.

Given what they do at Molesworth and Menwith Hill, I can't see them closing anytime soon as it would be too difficult to relocate anywhere else without an eye watering bill. So sadly as it seems, it does rather leave Lakenheath in the firing line, especially if they are getting rid of some if the 15s

[cokecan]

apart from Lakenheath being a FOB for the US, does the UK get a call on its aircraft?

could we ask the F-15's to assist our QRA force for example, and would that be - to some degree - what they are in the UK for, or is it merely convenient real estate in preparation for operations elsewhere?

[chopper2004]

If all assets in theory get moved to Fariford, are there hangarage for the SOG as well?

If Fairford gets canned, and with the reduced AMC/USAFE/SOG movements = RIAT can be held at the 'Hall so bringing back the Air Fete and the RIAT all under one roof :) (wishful thinking as not keen on the near enough 400 mile round trip to RIAT)

And what about Spang - if theres only one squadron plus AMC ramp - if that goes, then end of near 7 decades of fighters present in Germany.

The ones in Hungary and Romania look a tad untouched.....

Cheers

[ORAC]

Cokecan - real estate only.

[JTIDS]

If they did close down Mildenhall and Lakenheath, there has to be an argument for shutting down Brize and moving everything across to there. The facilities on those bases are decades ahead of Brize.

[ORAC]

A similar case was made for shutting Colt and a couple of other bases and moving to Woodbridge/Bentwaters when they moved out. But a detailed report showed all the wiring and infrastructure was 110v/60Hz - plus they were going to gut most buildings of everything non-structural so the costs escalated through the roof and it was cheaper to stay put - let alone the problem of relocating (or not being able to relocate) essential civil/reserve staff.

One of those paper exercises which always prove to be a pipe dream; hundred of millions up front for savings over 20 years which never materialise - and the. Ash up front isn't there anyway.

Old age and experience is not always cynicism.......

[vascodegama]

If I recall it was not only Colt that was on the chopping block-Wittering too.

Not sure about moving BZN to Mildenhall-just think of the journeys for all the pax. Still we usually spend a fortune on a base then close it.

[downsizer]

Fairford is tiny on the domestic scale though, where would everybody be accommodated? It's largely set up for dets...and there is only about a 100 Qtrs.

[NutLoose]

Then turn Brize into London's third Airport?

[Roadster280]

Fairford is tiny on the domestic scale though, where would everybody be accommodated?

Cartoontown. After BZZ has closed and moved to Suffolk.

[downsizer]

Cartoontown. After BZZ has closed and moved to Suffolk.

I was responding to Melchetts suggestion of the americans rationalising into Fairford. There is no way they would put their people up in what passes for a Qtr in Carterton.

[Martin the Martian]

So, alternatively, move the 480th FS from Spangdahlem to join the other two F-16 squadrons at Aviano and shift the F-15Es to Spangdahlem. The Pave Hawks could hop across to Mildenhall. Job done, I guess.

[Jumping_Jack]

Given what they do at Molesworth and Menwith Hill

Last I heard was that Molesworth as a physical unit was very much on the card for closure. The talk was to move Molesworth capability and remaining Alconbury staffs to co locate at Croughton (discussions have been had with the council that has responsibility for Croughton area to open a gate onto A43). Lost of money to off set the move with the full closure of two bases. It was also suggested that rather than having AFRICOM in theUK it might be an idea to have it in Africa!

[Ronald Reagan]

From what I heard and its only rumours are the total closure of Lakenheath, Aviano and Spangdahlem. The end of all USAF combat units in Europe. With the drawdown in Afghanistan and massed cuts to US Army units in Europe the AMC facilities at Spang won't be needed. Also this puts at risk the need for the based C-130s at Ramstein. Also with the loss of all USAFE fighter units and huge reduction in transient aircraft this will remove the need for a full USAFE tanker unit. There is talk of a small detachment of rotating stateside units to fill this role with maybe 4 to 6 tankers, not the current 15 based tankers which are at Mildenhall. Also the days of the 352nd SOG based in Europe seem to be rumoured to be coming to an end with talk of them returning to Florida. Talk about a lack of planning if this is true, as we speak they are being reequipped with MC-130Js and Osprey's! They don't have a full compliment of either yet! They have spent a fortune on Lakenheath, Mildenhall and Spangdahlem in recent years, many of the locals felt this guaranteed long term survival! In my opinion such a thing almost guarantees closure!

[chopper2004]

Ronnie,

Interesting - I was at the 352nd SOG Media Day last June, and the plans were all laid out until end of this year with numbers of airframes up to full scratch! Though like yourself, and this was rumors / spec I have heard on the grapevine around the local area and enthusiasts/spotters, that the 352nd would (liked or pressganged) move to the Med area to be closer to delicate areas :mad:

The same above would apply to the tanker force as well....to move down south.

However tbh the move back to Hulbert would not be beneficial as they still have to re deploy over the Atlantic on the way to potential conflicts out east.

I had seen something in the Huntingdon Post about relocation relocation of assets here to Croughton....personally why not move Croughton over this end and bung up the golfballs on Molesworth?

Cheers

[david44]

An pertinent an well made point.