Can't sign SEP revalidation by experience?

[describbler]

Hi all,

Just been perusing the latest version of Standards Doc 24(A). Am I reading it correctly? Para 4.2 says that EASA TREs and SFEs can't sign SEP revalidations by experience. Does anyone know what's going on?

describbler - a TRE who liked to do that for fellow fliers.

[dawsonj1]

Hi,

I believe that is incorrect. Any EASA certified examiner can sign SEP/TMG ratings by experience. See page 147, reference A11-1, of the UK CAA Flight Examiner Handbook. (It wouldn't allow to cut and paste it for some reason). I'm assuming your a UK licence holder since you mentioned Standards Doc?

Jim.

[describbler]

Hi Jim,

Yes, you're quite right. I'm a UK TRI/TRE but now on a full EASA licence.

I've been digging around this all afternoon - and I found the reference you point out. The trouble is that the latest Doc 24(A) is dated Jan 14 whereas the Examiner's Handbook is 2012. This looks like a very recent change and I've seen no other indication that it was on the cards. There appears to be no reference in part-FCL to a TRE's privilege to sign either. I think previously I relied on the CAA's statement in previous versions of the Standards Doc.

Rgds, des

[dawsonj1]

I see your point. I would perhaps seek confirmation from the CAA before putting your name to someone's licence. I'd be surprised if this has changed though, I've just completed a FE(PPL) course and I've seen no information notices or bulletins etc to publicise this. But stranger things have happened!

[describbler]

I'll try to find out more and post again if I do.

[Whopity]

From Standards Doc 24(A) January 2014A9.3.3
Revalidation by Experience (SEP and TMG only)
Examiners are reminded that, for TMG and SEP revalidation by experience, any CAA or JAA
authorised examiners (aeroplane or helicopter) can sign the revalidation. That includes TREs.
If the examiner is not confident with the process then he does not have to sign.

[describbler]

Latest info I have from the CAA is that EASA TRE and SFE certificates are not authorised to sign SEP/TMG revalidations by experience. FEs and CREs are.

Not impressed.

[Whopity]

Did they give you a reference for that?

[describbler]

They are going on part-FCL, which doesn't specifically state that the privileges of a TRE include signing revalidations by experience.

[Whopity]

Part FCL does not grant the privilege of signing a Certificate of Revalidation by Experience to any Examiner listed there!

[Level Attitude]

Part FCL does not grant the privilege of signing a Certificate of Revalidation
by Experience to any Examiner listed there!Actually, I think, it delegates the authority to National Competent Authorities:
FCL.1015 Examiner standardisation
(a) Applicants for an examiner certificate shall undertake a standardisation course provided
by the competent authority or by an ATO and approved by the competent authority.
(b) The standardisation course shall consist of theoretical and practical instruction and shall
include, at least:
- (3) a briefing on the national administrative procedures, requirements for
protection of personal data, liability, accident insurance and fees.As it is only an administrative action, the UK CAA should, therefore, be
able to empower any Examiner (or indeed any person) they like to sign
SEP Revalidations by Experience.

[Whopity]

to National Competent Authorities: Just one word holding things up then!

[ifitaintboeing]

It's actually in Part-ARA, at ARA.FCL.200(c):

Endorsement of licence by examiners. Before specifically authorising certain examiners to revalidate or renew ratings or certificates, the competent authority shall develop appropriate procedures.

and FCL.015:

An application for the issue, revalidation or renewal of pilot licences and associated ratings and certificates shall be submitted to the competent authority in a form and manner established by this authority.

ARA.FCL.200 was amended at the request of the UK CAA in order to allow examiners in the field to endorse licences for renewal and revalidation, because the UK CAA would not be able to deal with the volume of all revalidations.

ifitaint...

[Marty-Party]

Have we got a final answer on this subject ? A new IN has invited current FI(A)s to apply to be signatories for SEP revalidations by experience.

Do current TREs still have that privilege or do we need to apply (and pay £53) ?

[Level Attitude]

Have we got a final answer on this subject ? A new IN has invited current FI(A)s to apply to be signatories for SEP revalidations by experience.

Do current TREs still have that privilege or do we need to apply (and pay £53) ? FIs and CRIs can apply for this privilege.
TRIs cannot. Not least because they cannot conduct the 1 Hour Dual Training Flight.

NB: As far as I am aware TREs can sign SEP/TMG Revalidations 'by Experience'

[waaf]

According to the latest UK Flight Examiners Handbook (November 2014) Table 4c page 31, SPA Revalidation by Experience - Who Can Certify - quote 'Any Examiner holding a valid UK issued Part FCL examiner certificate'.

Left hand - right hand? So many conflicting documents, so little clarity. Pick the most recent one, keep a copy and produce it in court!

[waaf]

FI(A) and CRI (A) who have the relevant class rating on their licence and have carried out the period of flight instruction may also sign if they first apply to the CAA for such authorisation. See CAA Information Notice 2015/034.

[BBK]

I asked about this recently and a couple of TREs said they could NOT sign the revalidation. Just passing on what I was told. The second chap he could no longer use his "usual" airline TRE so was in the same situation.

[Mach Jump]

My understanding is that any holder of any Flight Examiner Authority, issued by the UK CAA, can complete, on behalf of the UK CAA, the administrative action required to Revalidate, by experience, any UK issued Rating.

In theory, the holder of any non-UK EASA Examiner Authority can do the same, but must be specifically authorised by the UK CAA before doing so. (I would be interested to know if any have been authorised so far.)


MJ:ok:

[Whopity]

by experience, any UK issued Rating. Not quite, but they can for SEP and TMG Class ratings

CAA FEH Appendix 11:
Revalidation by Experience (SEP and TMG)
Examiners are reminded that, for TMG and SEP revalidation by experience, any examiner holding a valid UK CAA issued examiner certificate can sign for the revalidation. Notwithstanding this, if the examiner is not familiar with the requirements and confident with the process then he is not obliged to sign.

[Mach Jump]

Not quite, but they can for SEP and TMG Class ratings

Sorry, I thought I implied by what I said that I meant any rating that could be Revalidated by experience.


MJ:ok: