LIPS/EPC

[scandistralian]

Just got the email saying LIPS salary deduction will no longer be processed by EPC.

Does anyone know the reason for this?

Hopefully LIPS will come up with a straightforward alternative arrangement.

[SOPS]

Well, that's a PIA!

[Dropp the Pilot]

Remind me of the cost/benefit if you have it at hand. Would a succesful claim now pay through age 65 or does it stop at 60?

[gardenshed]

Does someone have the Lips website address to hand ?

[single chime]

EPC is now trying to poach LIPS members for products offered by them (Athena, APPN, etc...). It was just a matter of time before they go their separate ways. It would be nice if LIPS would come out and clarified the situation. Would also be nice if EPC returns to its roots of being a social club (not another financial service salesman).

[SOPS]

It's lipsek.org. I think google should throw it up.

[fliion]

The author of that letter needs a lesson in soft skills.

It's our club, please treat the membership accordingly.

f.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Club ?
3500 pilots x 75 AED = 262500 AED per month for 3 bicycles and couple of tennis rackets....
Looks more like a business (which it is) than a social club for pilots in need.

[TangoUniform]

Don't forget FlyDubai can acces EPC along with other pilots in Dubai.

[Al Murdoch]

So can half of the population of Dubai. I know people with EPC cards that have literally no connection to the airline other than they know someone that knows someone.

[BYMONEK]

AMEX

If it grieves you so much, leave EPC and feel free to arrange your own discounts in future on 100's of restaurants, bars and cafe's in Dubai as well as negotiating discounts next time you visit Wild wadi and Ski Dubai. The odd discounted cinema ticket should be easy to achieve as well, surely? Not only bikes and rackets but golf clubs too. Most of all, may I wish you luck in accessing several 5 star beach hotels and their gyms along with other offers relating to car hire, tyres, cosmetics, furniture and anything else that the committee donate their own time into.

Best of all, you get to save 75 dirhams and we get to save spending SID's and STARS evenings with ungrateful and ignorant idiots like you!

[Al Murdoch]

Touched a nerve...

[Laker]

BYMONEK,

Let me guess. Are you the guy who sends out the quarterly scolding/threatening emails from EPC admonishing the membership for being too noisy at the beach clubs or not returning the bicycles in top shape?

Give it a break. If we are going to be completely honest the Emirates Platinum card gives better discounts on virtually everything and offers more locations. I almost exclusively eat out and I cannot remember a restaurant giving a better discount with the EPC card. They always offer a larger discount for the platinum card. The same goes for coffee and drinks. At only 20/aed per month for the company card I am quickly losing faith in the more expensive EPC.

The only 2 reasons I could see to maintain the EPC membership were the convenience of the LIPS deduction and access to beach clubs. So unless you are going to beach clubs on a regular basis I don't see the point of maintaining an EPC membership. It hasn't kept pace with the competition. Sids and Stars..Are they any good?

[Ketek400]

Thank you to the guys doing a great job at EPC! For a small fee of AED75/150, it gives us access to 5 star facilities! I think the combination of EPC and Platinum is awesome! Two horses for different courses.

[ruserious]

For the record, I think EPC is great value for money, try buying your own gym membership, or renting a bike down route.

Yes they could improve the website massively, simple things like coding the locations/areas correctly on the deals. But all in all, very happy with it.

[Praise Jebus]

So EPC is more like a business than a club....? and the distractors use a comparison between Platinum and EPC as to which offers the greater commercial benefit...ie the better business.....wtf? I joined EPC when it was struggling to get the minimum 100 members to kick it off, it was to provide beach club access and toys down route, it still does that thank you EPC. Don't join a club that doesn't suite your needs, simple really.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

For the record I have left EPC a while back, never been to SIDs and STARs either so that "idiot" wasn't me ;) (you have me mistaken with another one who was there too:D ).
And yes EPC is a business, not a charity. Nothing wrong with that, just one I wasn't getting much benefit from anymore as what I used to enjoy had disappeared or reduced to so little -5 AED discount per cinema ticket for example-, it wasn't worth me driving to the Fairmount anymore.
I may be ignorant but my decision was based on ignorantly reviewing what use I had for EPC.

[Laker]

I'm sure a lot of people will jump all over me for this but I wonder if EPC would open up their books to the membership? They probably collect close to half a million dirhams per month. An office in the Fairmont Hotel? That must cost a fortune....

It doesn't seem to me like the deals match the massive amount of dues money. Are they spending 4-6 million dirhams a year on beach access, Sids & Stars parities, and bicycles? Just curious. I guess a few years in dubai has led me to worry about less than sound accounting anywhere you get a big pile of money showing up monthly.

[Praise Jebus]

try a phone....if you are a member then it's your club, talk to the committee. I went to an AGM two years ago, there were 2 members in the audience, 2 out of about 3000! If you want to see change then turn up and influence it, join the committee even. Or of course you can just bag it on Pprune I suppose....

[Laker]

it's a lot easier to just complain via PPRUNE:ok:

[CAYNINE]

From what I have seen its a lobbied dispute with EPC as why LIPS had deductions and TOP Cover didn't.... could it be that LIPS directors work for the good of the members and try hard to make it easier???

EPC have really disappointed me with that email, 12 years a member and now I get a distinct impression that the committee are more interested in a pissing competition than the benefits to the members.

[Thridle Op Des]

Left a couple of years ago when the cost outweighed the benefit (to me), though interestingly I was still able to have a LIPS deduction from salary even though I was no longer a member, so maybe the status quo can be maintained.

[BYMONEK]

Laker

You joke that it's easier to moan on PPRrune but ironically that is exactly what many pilots do. Whinge on a forum but can't be bothered spending 30 minutes to send off an email to those that can influence change whether it be related to the EPC or EK. I do agree that the Emirates Platinum Card (coincidental similar abbreviation) has generally greater offers and discounts but these are not always as published. It doesn't provide perhaps the greatest advantage and that's the beach club/gym access that offers exceptional value. If we don't support our own club, it will eventually go. Call me cynical, but what do you think would then happen to the monthly cost of the platinum card?

I bumped into a Captain in Manchester several months ago who complained that the club bikes were 'still' broken. They had been 2 weeks earlier when he was there on the same pairing. Who did he think was going to fix them? He hadn't even contacted the EPC to inform them. The apathy amongst some of our members is beyond words so is it any surprise that emails are sent. You perceive them as scalding, I as a necessity born out of frustration. It's our club, it's about time more members took some responsibility and ownership.

[Enos]

I can go for months not using my EPC card and then one discount I get on it, makes it all worth while.

Stop your complaining gents, if it wasn't for EPC, would we have the platinum card?

I have met so many people outside of EK that would love to have an EPC card.

There are more important things to moan about, like how much better the roster is on the Boeing than the airbus, or how the 380 crews can't get a descent DEL turn around.

[CAYNINE]

Ok lets get back to what this thread is about.... LIPS deductions.

EPC has been a great organisation, still is, I would urge the committee of fine men to reconsider the decision for the betterment of the members and to restore some goodwill towards the loyal members of EPC.

EPC was set up to give EK pilots a vehicle in which they could have some benifits from a collectively strong bargaining point to gain access to clubs and certain places that pilots could get together and have social interaction, along they way it has morphed into what we have today with all the associated benefits.

I want to encourage, nay, urge the committee to reverse the decision taken regarding the deductions and commit to the original charter of a "Pilot's Club" which gives all members opportunity to use the concessions and benefits available...... that gentlemen also includes the continuance of assisting those members of LIPS in collecting and growing the Income protection scheme so important to all pilots should they fail to maintain a license.

LIPS has not been a detractor of EPC, in fact it sponsors events like SIDS and STARS as a partner with EPC. Now if this is a personal conflict with the directors of LIPS then that needs to be addressed ASAP, I know you guys on both sides, and you all do a fantastic job.... so lets put the dummy back in and strive for a sensible resolution. :ok:

[kingpost]

I've noticed that one of the EPC sponsors are AIG with Top Cover Insurance, they'll not want LIPS around!!

The other issue is that LIPS is running an illegal operation in Dubai, they are suppose to have oversight from the central bank if they accept funds within Dubai - this is not complied with!! LIPS offer a great package, it will just be nice if they can operate so that there's some sort of oversight, otherwise we'll end up with another EPI!!

[Praise Jebus]

I have faith in the EPC committee to make the decisions we have entrusted them to do so I'm sure it's for good reason. Take this as a hypothetical....An EPC member loses their medical and makes a claim to LIPS who reply that they are not financial so no payout. But the member thought his premiums were being automatically deducted via EPC? Turns out they weren't, some system error...So who is accountable here?? I can imagine in this scenario the EPC committee might feel vulnerable, so decide to cancel the whole LIPS/EPC payment deal to protect themselves....Plenty of valid reasons, this might be one...

[CAYNINE]

Implausible.... EPC have no connection to LIPS other than collecting for them, which they take a fee for. It's a service that was provided. If a tyre company supplied dodgey tyres that EPC gave a discount for through an agreed deal and you had an accident, would that make EPC complicit to the accident???

Hypothetically if the world stopped turning we would have a long day and a long night.......

[Praise Jebus]

Doggy it was a hypothetical.... EPC provide(d) a service on behalf of LIPS for a fee (I didn't know that) . EPC doesn't do the same for the dodgey tyre company or collect a fee, not quite the same but pitty the LIPS thing has changed all the same.

[Desert Driver]

Shame its come to this. I love the statement by kingpost, about LIPS is running an illegal operation. I hope you have proof or at least a good lawyer. I have been a member since Mike and others started the club. I have also been with LIPS for many years. It was all great and working well for me now I am not so sure. As for the apathy of contacting EPC. I emailed them on this subject, got an auto response and still waiting.

Hope everyone can still be friends but wished the members had been informed in a more adult way. After all the jibes over management techniques over the years EPC did the same thing. Sign this to absolve me, no explanation.

I hope the commitee dont sit back and think, all these wingers, they dont know what we do, i dont have to tell them why, next move will be a position in EGHQ.

[falconeasydriver]

For me, having access to all the EPC bits and bobbs down route makes life just that bit more bearable. The bikes are great, as ever there are those ludite's amongst us who will moan the loudest but do the least.
Its OUR club, and the state of it reflects on it membership, when will some of you understand that?
As for this LIPs debacle, I genuinely hope cooler heads prevail, but if not, then at least lets get a suitable and sensible arrangement in place ASAP.

[LadyMatilda]

Yes, heard that EPC charge(d) LIPS for taking the salary deductions.

Also on good authority, I found it interesting to learn that when the new EPC treasurer (Mark Eadon) took over the position, he immediately (with the blessing of the Chairman Alan King) imposed a 150% increase in the salary deduction charge to LIPS. (Talk about screwing your own membership!!) :ugh:

Under the guise of AIG sponsorship, the new "advertisement" for Top Cover on the EPC site (been there, done that - in my opinion a waste of money), certainly makes it appear that LIPS are being pushed aside in order to keep the "sponsors" happy.

EPC - shocking behavior! So much for being an EMIRATES pilot's club and supporting your colleagues.
:=:=

Time for an AGM and a NEW Chairman / Committee.... elected by the members. :ok:

[wrightnow]

Thumbs up for an AGM. But not because King Al and his knights may have goofed up lately, but more because of a lack of vision and leadership in general. Not holding AGMs anymore is in breach of our club's constitution which, at least last time I checked, is supposed to be held annually (this is what the 'A' stands for). It's a matter of respects … towards the members, who vote for committee members to serve the club and report on their decisions and business.
The EPC has become a lame duck in a concert of discount alternatives everywhere in Dubai. Platinum is just one example. If insurances are on top of Al's agenda, let him do that, but have somebody else with a concept lead the club !! Time for a change - have others take a crack.

[canadansk]

I happily quit EPC after many years. The cost outweighed the benefit for me personally (I know it is different for those with families that use the beach clubs). The club seemed to become about making money and the shift away from Emirates Pilots only was a major reason for me handing in my card. The latest EPC action with regard to LIPs just confirms my decision to have ceased being a member.

[EK380]

Wondering... Has anybody signed and returned this doc send by EPC?

[SOPS]

I have just left mine sitting in the printer tray, I was wondering what to do.

[Payscale]

If we were not supposed to sign it I am sure LIPS would have told us so....eh...:bored:

[Fromagio]

Has LIPS said anything at all on the matter or have I missed it?? A bit odd if they haven't!!

[jumbo1]

Check the LIPS website for info. Nothing specific on signing the document or not though

[LadyMatilda]

On this subject, from LIPS I got an SMS, email and reply to my query which I sent to [email protected] + the update on the website.

No problems with communications from LIPS...:ok:

[fliion]

LIPS have always been friendly and responsive to deal with.

If the 'ladies' manning the desks at the Fairmont EPC could take a page out of LIPS book - then one might have a better taste in ones mouth when exiting.

f.

[pilotday]

Long time ago I showed my accountant the financials of LIPS, he said it looked like a Ponzi Scheme...

Non-profit with "administration fees"

[Rim-job]

I'm fak'n confused... And no it's not the first time.

But just so I'm clear... Those of us who opted for the auto withdraw every month should just hang tight and see how it all unfolds?

Or do we need to find another means of payment before this upcoming paycheck?

[8sugarsugar]

I canceled EPC last year out of principle. What discounts I don't get with Platinum I would rather pay full price than give another dirham to EPC.

[wrightnow]

Just received EPC's letter again urging me to sign and accept discontinuation of LIPS deductions, as part of an 'audit' and to protect the club. What are they doing? What license? Are we not part of EK anymore? Shouldn't the committee ask the members for any such move before applying for a separate license? Looks like we are only been given bits and pieces here.

[BigGeordie]

I received an e-mail from EPC this morning explaining why they are no longer accepting LIPS payments. It all sounds plausible but it is a shame they couldn't have told us all this in the first place rather than sending out a "you must sign this to absolve us of all responsibility" letter with no explanation. EPC have not covered themselves with glory over this.

And no, I still won't be signing.....

[Mister Warning]

Do tell....

[thatwasclose]

The thing about epc is, that membership must have nearly doubled since I have joined and I see no extra benefits from what must be a massive increase in revenue. Indeed, a few of my drinking spots no longer accept the thing and I am reduced to that vile company card.

[clevlandHD]

It would have been so much easier (and professional!) to write an email WITH Lips.

[Dune]

When was the last time we received an audited financial report for OUR money? Given the large flow of funds through that account monthly I can imagine the possible "leakage" that may be occurring.

I was tempted to give these guys some slack when I felt they were working for us (as they have since inception). Now I get the feeling "King-Al" is working for himself more than the OWNERS of this club since he became chief bottle washer.

In my opinion should he have ANY self interest in ANYTHING to do with EPC he has a fiduciary responsibility to disclose it to the members of this CLUB. I have it under good authority he has not been forthcoming in his personal "associations" and "benefits" derived by way of his current position.

I didn't sign onto this membership to be a business. It was conceived to be a CLUB which provided 100% to members. Where did this change?

It is time to come clean King-Al with a general meeting to clear the air. There are too many unanswered questions and usually "where this is smoke; there is fire". Is this time different?

[SOPS]

Where does all the money paid monthly by members actually go?

[LadyMatilda]

Fire Ball;

I contacted LIPS - was told in no uncertain terms that everyone remains 100% covered and that a new payment option (direct debit) would commence from April when the 3 months MOU expires.

EPC tried to squirm their way out of the MOU by sending out that ridiculous email asking LIPS members to sign a load of unsubstantiated drivel. The poor guys who thought they were doing the right thing by signing and returning, have had their salary deduction terminated.
Alan King + Mark Eadon! :ugh:

Thank you LIPS for the professional and courteous manner in which you have responded to my queries.
:ok::D

[ima birdbrain]

Matilda Both sides dropped the ball big time. LIPS are to blame as much as EPC for this bun fight.
LIPS were notified of the change by EPC on 24th December , yet chose not to share this information with members.......until Jan 11th and even then LIPS did not reveal that had you signed the email from EPC your deductions from salary would no longer continue ....

All this could have been avoided had LIPS communicated to members before the Jan 6th email from EPC that a 3 month agreement was in place and to ignore the email....Fellas what went wrong ???

LIPS get a grade 1 for communication skills.
I give EPC a grade 5 for a Machiavellian Performance.

http://superradnow.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/spy.jpeg?w=584&h=438

[Outatowner]

Speedbrake, in what way has this MOU been broken? I thought they gave their notice. How about some specifics please.

You seem to be very upset about all of this and with good reason.
So will you be running for the committtee if they have an election?

[BYMONEK]

Lady Matilda et all

Questioning the professionalism and ethics of both sides is one thing. Using the actual names of those involved in a public forum is another. Please refrain or discuss specifics on the Emrats own private forum. Thanks. :ok:

[Outatowner]

Speedbrake I see you came back to edit your post and remove specific names but still didn't respond to the questions. You seem to know more than you let on but won't tell us anything, why is that?

Although you seem to be a member of the EPC, you still seem to have a very specific axe to grind, against the EPC. Please tell us what is your vested interest. I do not understand the reason for such a public attack on the EPC.

[777-Up]

@ ima birdbrain; how do you presume to know LIPS dropped any ball? Do you have some kind of special insider info? Why LIPS should announce anything on behalf of EPC, especially given EPC bizarre and erratic behaviour in recent months, is beyond me. Please explain, :mad:.

ima birdbrain... If you're not happy with LIPS performance, instead of throwing peanuts from the gallery, perhaps you might consider volunteering your services to help protect your fellow Emirates pilots, instead of issuing, "grades" (btw... does your habit of grading mean you're a TRE?)

@ pilotday; did you know there are currently 7 Emirates pilots who were unfortunate enough to lose their medicals, who receive LIPS claim benefits every month? Those pilots might disagree with your evaluation (you can read some of their testimonials on the LIPS site).

LIPS has over Dhs 15 Million+ in the bank there to protect over 1800 LIPS Members. LIPS is paying OUT 7 Claimants x approx Dhs 27k/mo = Dhs 189k/mo. And LIPS brings IN 1800 x Dhs 395 = Dhs 711k/mo. That's a Dhs 500k/month SURPLUS going in the fund to protect you in the future. Those are audited figures.

That's not a "Ponzi' scheme at all (look it up on Wikipedia) ... LIPS is massively SUSTAINABLE and there to protect you as an EK pilot, for EK pilots alone.

If you don't wish to believe the above facts, then new EPC "sponsor" AIG TopCover (btw AIG managed their affairs in such a manner the US Govt had to bail them out) is there for you... to take your money (and take their AIG TopCover profit cut from YOUR money, and hard work, too). Good luck with that. :=

[Silky]

Interesting comments from various sources!

I am a simple being..money in...money out... How many claims are sustainable?

I have done my research and elected to allow the professionals take care of both my and my families future! I decided on the new Lloyd's/Caitlin offer which I am just charging to my master card monthly! Simple and underwritten by funds sufficient to support any claims!
Took approx 5 mins to sign up even though I am illiterate and illegitimate!

https://www.pilotinsureifr.ae

Not affiliated to EK or EPC.

Not managed by pilots (aka F1, EPI) we all saw how that worked out!!

Can take it with you when you move to greener pastures! Sign up any time you want!
Rant over!

[Plazbot]

Out of interest what do Emirates Pilots pay for EPC per year? I am ATC. Pm me for discretion. I personally have chosen to not renew this year as the wife gets Platinum card.

[kingpost]

777-Up

I must agree with you, I think LIPS has the best interests of their members at heart however if one looks at it from the EPC point of view, LIPS is taking money from members "onshore" (in Dubai) for investment purposes without oversight from the Central Bank, which is a requirement to prevent the likes of EPI happening again.

They have the best intentions, but need to do it correctly, can you now see why EPC is concerned?

[Silky]

:ugh:
Kingpost, I agree with you totally, there are some very capable people involved with LIPS as there are in EPC. It is in fact a central bank requirement to hold an insurance trading licence to sell such products....this I believe along with your comments is why EPC wanted more distance. It would put EPC in a position of facilitator for a product they cannot sell by law....my only other question is....would you trust a pilot with your financial future?
I think that has been answered on more than one occasion in DXB with some of the calamities that have happened over the last 10/15 years!

Me, definitly not! But then we all have free choice and I for one would rather entrust my further with an insurance company with a track record and endless monies for underwriting! Then again I suppose there is no reason why not to have both!

[Wizofoz]

But then we all have free choice and I for one would rather entrust my further with an insurance company with a track record and endless monies for underwriting!

But Silky, where do you think they GOT those "endless monies" from?

Not from paying out on claims, if they could possibly avoid it!!

[Silky]

Hey Wiz..am with you on that one! But it will at least be an impartial professional trying to not pay me rather than someone who doesn't want to drain his golden goose dry!
Tell me that all decisions are impartial by LIPS!?

[Wizofoz]

More a comment on insurance companies in general than any in particular, Silky.

LIPS is too new and too small to make generalisations, but with the exception of one claimant who I think was questionable in any case, I think LIPS has been a case of "So far so good".

[Silky]

For me I see it as Axa or Kabul insurances! Which would I rather give my very hard earned cash to?

Horses for courses!

[Silky]

Also just heard that the lips guys all take a salary...commission? Can we confirm or deny?

[fliion]

I like LIPS and the way they communicate ...

Don't know much about EPC...but back in the day when I was a pho ... I flew with 2 skips who are now involved..

XX & XX (initials removed by request).

farkn disgrace to the profession .. And if that's the best we can do after next election..I'm out

f.

[CAYNINE]

Silk your an antagonistic ignorant idiot,

Did someone in LIPS step on your toes in the sim or something???? Maybe missed out on an upgrade or something so the directors of LIPS is your axe to grind???

Your malicious attitude would be better directed towards other things that don't matter or are cared about.

LIPS is a genuine fund, audited, and there for members to be looked after should there be any problems with your continued employment due to med.

Why don't you have a rave about the way guys are getting terminated after a long period of illness to avoid LOL payouts by our parent???? Or is that outside your realm of reality???:mad:

[Silky]

Interesting response from the puppy(Caynine)! I got my upgrade first time tks, applying for SFS next month! Wish me luck!

I assume from your rant that the rumor on the line is correct..pockets are being lined!


Its a pilot managed fund...that says enough! It's also against the UAE law to sell "insurance" without a correct trade license. I assume you are forwarding some of your ill gotten gains to BC in Oz.

Just a little reminder in case you forgot your last outing with a pilot managed fund...sound familiar?



"BC, KT and a few other very very very respectable principals of EPI put a proposal to investors, partners, whatever the little minded pedantic naysayers want to call it, to purchase a share in the EPI fund in question. Now that was all very respectable above the board and handled very professionally, professionally took our cheques, professionally gave us a nice certificate and wow a CD, all swimmingly wonderful stuff......"


Tks but no thanks!
P.s. See you by the pool later Boet?

[ima birdbrain]

SILKY All transparent information 2012 LIPS Audit Page 22 Directors Remuneration. Amount in AED listed clearly .

777-Up Hope your 3rd post is better than your last. I stand by what I said previously LIPS have not explained why they took so dam long to communicate, could have avoided all the confusion had they done so.

They are after all being compensated for their efforts. Which for the record I do applaud and have no axe to grind.

[Silky]

ima birdbrain Thanks for the clarity in your response!

It does make anything they say biased as you can agree? And no I don't have an Axe to grind with any of the LIPS people but I do wish to have all the facts so as to make an educated decision!

At least with a broker I know from the outset what Im getting and have a choice to accept of not!

Thats my only objective here is making sure guys are openly educated to whats on offer and allowed the ability to freely compare whats on offer without being shouted down....

[g109]

LIPS is nothing more than a ponzi scheme.
Do your math and you will find out.
it WILL COLLAPSE IF:

1. too many members will draw benefits, ie, there will be a cut off point.
2. Too many members leaving and not enough fresh members joining.

It is NOT backed up and underwritten by any insurance company.

and YES, the directors DO TAKE a salary.

guys stop being so naive!!!!!!!!!

[BobDole]

What plan would you suggest then is LIPS is not the way to go?

[halas]

You just described AIG.

halas

[Silky]

:D
Then go with Caitlin, Top Cover or whichever is more appropriate and secure....Caitlin is avail to join any time with debits directly from your card monthly...BUT I think it is best for the younger than the older as over 45 it is expensive IMHO!:E

[meger5]

The Catlin policy at Pilot Insure IFR - Insurance Products for Pilots in the UAE (http://www.pilotinsureifr.ae) is just recently launched and Lloyd's of London are involved here, so deep pockets for claims. Peace of mind is everything :rolleyes:

Nice online calculator too, the rates are specific to the UAE, so pretty competitive. It's transparent and there are no politics involved, which is no bad thing at all :ok:

[spanishfly69]

Mereger 5:
Do you call that pretty competitive? Sorry, but call it very expensive. I guess everything is relative.

[Silky]

spanishfly69, LOL....you must be like me in the over 45 bracket..... below 45 is ok, but below 40 is good and so on!!
My understanding is its a fixed price from whenever you join....so the really young guys do extremely well from it where us old farts pay for our age and fragility! :sad:

[meger5]

Spanishfly69

At least you can mess around with the calc and select the level of cover you want. Just because another quote is cheaper, dosen't mean it's better.

You need to be satisfied that whoever you are handing over your hard earned cash too, will have the funds to pay out what you are entitled to, in the unfortunate circumstance that you need to claim.

It's important to compare apples with apples !!

[wrightnow]

g109,
about each and every financial/security system or scheme is a Ponzi scheme, look around in this world - the way you describe LIPS looks at one scenario in a negative way. A Ponzi scheme with a negative design favors those joining early in the scheme-I don't see that with LIPS, and I am sure the guys (Directors) have done their math.
Interesting to see this topic being increasingly debated after EPC has cut the deduction line with payroll. They have achieved their goal in discrediting LIPS in favor of other service providers. The EPC Committee has done this deliberately, arguing that this was necessary to have a clean vest applying for a license of some sort. It will be interesting to see what that is and given that they would have to ask the membership first before even applying, I find it absolutely disrespectful towards the membership to move forward like this, probably even spending our money for expertise fees and p#ssing off everyone in the process.
Guys, there's no need to sign anything and I am getting increasingly annoyed by EPC's communication.
Wonder, how many members raise their hands for committee work. I would imagine that there would be more, if a new start with a new crew could be achieved. Take a hike AK and AS and allow fresh air in.

[Silky]

Wrightnow...I'm not too sure some of us needed the input from EPC to help us with our decision making. I draw the comparison with our ever decreasing medical coverage.
This like LIPS is self underwritten and as you I am sure have found out is becoming more and more useless. You have to argue with some soulless accountant why you need critical surgery for an ill loved one and then have to justify why you went to X hospital instead of the Iranian hospital as it was cheaper there.
This is where I see any coverage that it is self funded as a threat. This is why I sought out better medical coverage and while the EPC offering was fine I went with Baymac. Again not self regulated or underwritten thereby giving my family security.
This was not due to EPC pushing anything, this was due to me recognizing the threats involved with self funded coverage and them serving their own interest!

Have we not seen this as a group over the last 15 years within EK and amoungst the various offerings from F1 to EPI etc...trust no one else with your hard earned cash or future. Take control of your own future by evaluating choice on merits not on a promise of what may be!

[Silky]

Where did the other lips thread go?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Accidental deletion by the thread starter. I've restored it and returned it into view.

Rob

[Silky]

Removed again?

[pilotday]

hmm, I notice a lot of negative posts or complaints about LIPS disappearing.

Remember, a Ponzi scheme needs a constant influx of new money to keep building the house of cards. Makes you wonder how many people really profit from LIPS.

IF LIPS is adjusting their terms for a new GCAA disqualifying condition. You can't trust them.

The only way to protest is to stop giving them your hard earned money. There is no guarantee they will actually pay your benefits if you need them. Its just a "promise" as long as they don't have too many claims.

[Silky]

Why oh why won't us pilots learn!! Trust no one with your hard earned cash epically another pilot!!

[Speedbrake]

IPEP / TOPCOVER no more - moved to LIPS. :ok:
Silky, may I suggest you read THIS (http://www.lipsek.org/index.php/about-lips/testimonials). One of these gents is a close friend and has nothing but good things to say about LIPS.

Now; since we (wife + 3 kids) can't get into any given beach club on any given weekend (every Tom, Dick & Harry in Dubai has an APC card), where are our (E)APC funds going? Exclusivity for sure is gone.
:(

Maybe time to cancel that one too. Platinum is FAR better anyway.

[Silky]

Thanks Speedbrake. That's worried me even more!
How much a year does it cost to pay these claims?
Pay the "interested" parties?
Offices?
Who then decide to change the rules to suit?

https://www.pilotinsureifr.ae Is underwritten by Clements who have enough funding for us all!! Again horses for courses, I don't go to karama for car, house insurance. So I defo won't for loss of lic!