New here/flying in the UK/Hour Building UK

[adamlouis]

Hey! I`m new to this forum and have a few questions about flying in the UK :)

I`m 18 years old and have about 120 hours SEP, live in Norway and got my licence issued in Norway as well.

I`m hopefully starting at OAA 14.october this year and would like to build some hours PIC before starting my ATPL theory!

I`ve looked into Big Red Kite a bit, do anyone here have any experience with them?

I`ve been flying Piper Cubs, Piper PA-28, mostly a C172 from the 80s and a few hours with the C172 with g1000, how are they compared with the C152? :)

Thanks for all replys and happy flying!! :)

:ok:

[A and C]

Unfortunately Big Red Kite has temporarily suspended Hour Building contracts, this is as a result of the tragic death of one of the directors ( a 50% equity holder ) following a long battle with cancer and the legal process known in the UK as Probate.

Big Red Kite has always insisted on a proper level of customer support in both flying operations and maintenance, this Big Red Kite was unable to give to hours builders over the last year especially as the company decided to implement the Cessna Supplemental inspection Directive (SID's program) full, this program is being studiously ignored by most of the Cessna operators in the UK.

It is intended that Big Red Kite will re-enter the hours building market as soon as it is properly able to support the product with high quality aircraft and customer operational support, meanwhile the company is continuing with leasing aircraft to flying clubs.

[adamlouis]

I understand.. Sad to hear, but thanks for the reply :)

Do you or anyone else here know of any good hour building lease in the UK?
Sadly I`m not able to buy a share in any aircraft there as I`m not able to move there very long before I start my ATPL theory.

:)

[Agaricus bisporus]

How may hours do you need, and how quickly do you need them?

When I found I needed 100 more P1 hours I found for a C150 for rent dry and bought a 100hr block. This brings the hourly cost down hugely. I then found an airfield with sensible priced avgas (this was before mogas) that would let me park and land for a month and just flew the arse off it. Few landaways except where cheap or free with fuel. A total waste of money and fuel but it got me the hours I needed at about 60% of the price of renting wet from a club. Do it in summer when the days are longer though.

A bit of research should give you a good idea of the practicality of this. I'm sure you can still do it this way.

[adamlouis]

I need about 50 hours PIC depending on how much flying I get done until this summer, the weather has been terrible in Norway lately...

So was looking for a dry or wet lease for 2-4 weeks in september :)

The rent in my club for a 80s C172 is currently 144 £ph, so was hoping for something a bit cheaper than that! :)

Will proceed with CAE Oxford Aviation Academy's Waypoint Pilot Program after the ATPL theory so would prefer to built the hours before this :)

[Blackbushe Flyer]

You have a PM Adam

[hegemon88]

And another PM.

[A and C]

Now I have a better idea of your requirements I would say that if you don't get another offer of an aircraft by June, Big Red Kite may be by then in a position to help you in September.

Expect the cost to be IRO £60/ Hour + VAT dry and plan on a fuel burn of 23 Lts/ Hr.

Use your hour building wisely, it may be the only chance that you get to enjoy your flying, go on a long trip south aiming to fly no more that 3-4 hours a day, leave the GPS at home and use DR navigation with the aim to be within 60 seconds of the ETA at waypoints. This will hone your skills to the point that the CPL skills test will be easy to pass.

I am guessing the ultimate goal of this is to join the Red Nose airline ?

[adamlouis]

Thanks for the reply!

For what I`ve seen Big Red Kite seems to be the best for me, and what I want with my hour building. :)

As 95 % of my experience has been for a C172 from the 80s and one from the 70s and with no GPS, I then never navigate using the GPS when flying VFR, I really enjoy flying cross-country, planing the trip before with tracks and using ETO/ATO!

My ideal hour building would be a bit south in England ( Big Red Kite is an ideal spot for me) then first get to know the area, then fly cross country both to the North and France/Spain and so on.. :)

From what I`ve seen from other places it is roughly around 120-130 £ per hour, wich won`t save me money at all, as I need accommodation.

Will it be too late to book the plane sometime in March? The best would be to get the plane in early September, fly there, then move up to Oxford in October! :)

[adamlouis]

Does anyone here have any experience with owning a share in an aircraft for their hour building?

As I`m attending OAA, around Oxford area would be best!

Is this a cheaper way than normal Hour-Building Package or is it around the same? :)

Best Regards
Adam

[letpmar]

It can be a very good way to get a good price per hour. Our Sportcruiser is 70 per month and 55 per hour wet. The question is will you get all your equity back when you come to sell up. I believe there are non equity groups out there, though I have always been unsure if they is really legal.

[adamlouis]

How much is typical for a share in a aircraft ? SEP :)

[letpmar]

We are £3000 for the sportcruiser and you can log those hours. I guess £1000 to £9000 is the equity range. For hours building obviously you would want to look at the lower end. There is a huge range out there I would have thought cheap and cheerfull is where you want to be for hours building.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The most well known website for buying aeroplanes, or shares, in the UK is AFORS: Planes and Aircraft For Sale - Light Aircraft, Autogyros, Helicopters ... (UK) (http://www.afors.com), and generally speaking adverts are perfectly honest about the money, if perhaps not always quite so honest about how good the aeroplane is or what the syndicate are like to cco-exist with in ownership.

I doubt that many syndicates will be sympathetic to somebody, particularly overseas and inexperienced, wanted to buy a share purely to hourbuild as you're not exactly going to put much back into the syndicate with that profile and are a bit of an accident risk as well.

On the other hand, there are some very cheap LAA aeroplanes which will also have very low runing costs. Even on your own an aeroplane like that offers very cheap hourbuilding, and with a couple of friends in a similar position, still better. Buy it, base it somewhere cheap an friendly, learn about aircraft ownership whilst you build hours, do a good service, sell it probably at a moderate loss to ensure it goes quickly and you don't end up with never ending bills.

G

[BroomstickPilot]

Hi adamlouis,

Why ever are you doing your hour building in the UK, with its grossly unreliable weather and excessively costly flying environment?

I should have thought even Sweden would have given you better weather and cheaper flying than here.

Best of all, go somewhere like Spain or South Africa.

Regards,

BP.

[AdamFrisch]

Why don't you buy a plane? At those hours it starts to swing in favour of owning if you plan your purchase smartly. The other great thing with owning is that you actually don't have to put up the money after every hour, so it's much less fund/cash dependent (if you ignore the initial investment that you'll recoup on sale). Planes are cheap, a C152 can be picked up for used car money. Who knows, you might just get all that money back when you sell, and then you've flown for free (except fuel). Pretty good odds for me. Maybe you even decide to keep it.

Also, you could turn it into an adventure and go on a European tour in your own aircraft to build these hours. That's what I'd do at your age. Be a great experience.

[adamlouis]

The reason for me wanting to hour build in the UK is for me to get to know how GA is in the UK and as I intend to start a CPL course there I think I`ll be better of flying there then rushing through Sweden... And for the weather... I think the weather here in northern Norway is way worse than the UK, has been over 15 kts here and gust 20-35 the last month... Even had gusting up to 70 KTS in December... :)

If I decide to buy a share in an aircraft I will most likely keep it for as long as I can, I want to grow experience as a pilot and not just rush into a CPL course :)

How cheap is a used C152? As a used Golf or used Ferrari? :)

[adamlouis]

Light Aircraft, Fournier Rf3 , Shares & Groups, advert ID=27939 (http://www.afors.com/index.php?page=adview&adid=27939&imid=0)

Found this, seam perfect for my use.. Not to far away from OAA either.. :)

But can I log hours counting towards the 100 PIC needed for CPL? I currently have a JAR-FCL PPL :)

Would keep this after the 100 PIC, looks cool :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

That is classed as a self launching motor glider, not SEP for logging purposes - so regrettably not.

G

[Prop swinger]

It's a TMG, so up to 30 hours towards EASA CPL.

[adamlouis]

After some looking I`ve found a decent Cessna 152 for rent in Shoreham for 85£ per hour wet + 30 £ per month, looks good and the owner seamed nice ! :)

Does anyone here have any experience from flying and the weather around Shoreham and Brighton area? :)

Further, do I need an UK telephony licence when I have the JAR-FCL PPL-A with ICAO radiotelephony which allows me to fly around the globe with no restrictions in radio use? :) ( If I`ve understood it right)

Adam :)

[foxmoth]

I believe there are non equity groups out there, though I have always been unsure if they is really legal.
Perfectly legal as long as it is maintained as if were a rental aircraft, I.e. To what used to be called PT standards.

Weather around Shoreham should be ok at the time of year you are looking at, though expect to lose the odd day or two with it.