Kicked out of school for wearing ATC uniform

[mckelvey]

School pupils who wore Air Cadets uniforms Armistice Day kicked out of class | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2503010/School-pupils-wore-Air-Cadets-uniforms-Armistice-Day-kicked-class.html)

Disgraceful!

[Dash8driver1312]

Playing devils advocate.

1) did they seek permission beforehand?
2) are the school/academy uniform rules laid out clearly in unambiguous language?

Sorry, but if I pitched up in something that is not in accordance with the regulations (however misguided or not they may be), I cannot expect to hide behind such utterances as "it was for this reason."

And before you jump on me, I am a former Air Cadet and Civilian Instructor, who was attending my local war memorial at 11am on the 11th, and observing the service on the 10th.

[Wander00]

Dash8 - I accept your point, but maybe the school should have taken the longer view - 3 kids honouring the fallen and setting an example of "service". I think the school authorities look pretty stupid and short sighted.

[SilsoeSid]

Whatever you do, don't read the full story :rolleyes:

For this to be any form of 'story' the cadets would gave to have been told to change at morning registration ... they weren't.

They were allowed to continue to wear their uniforms in order to mark the time of the Armistice until after midday. For the remainder if the school day they had to comply with the schools uniform policy. I don't see any problem here.



W00 Dash8 - I accept your point, but maybe the school should have taken the longer view - 3 kids honouring the fallen and setting an example of "service". I think the school authorities look pretty stupid and short sighted.

Remembrance Day was the day before this happened.
The day in question was Armistice Day.

[TBM-Legend]

Pox on the Headmaster who cannot see the good spirit in these young people's actions.

I used to always wear my ATC uniform proudly to school on the 11th Nov as well as Battle of Britain Day in my time. Our school cadet unit was Army and my ATC unit was a "town flight".

[pontifex]

I am afraid Dash Driver's is the voice of reason here.

[SilsoeSid]

Imho the Headmaster did well by allowing them to continue wearing their uniform during the first half of the school day. I'll wager that even after the Sunday Remembrance Parade itself, cadets around the country changed into civvies as soon as the opportunity arose.

[charliegolf]

Kicked out of school?

The only way anyone should read that phrase, is in association with an exclusion. An exclusion is serious. This ain't. These kids were correctly treated by the school.

As a serving Head (primary mind, not secondary), I will bet that had the pupils made a pitch via the School Council or whatever, they would likely have been invited to front an assembly or some such to explain to the school what they do, why, and why remembrance is important.

I would bet my pension that they would not have been pulled up for wearing a poppy on their uniform, which you might also regard as 'breaking the school uniform code'.

CG

[Arclite01]

Not an official duty or parade - Therefore no uniform should be worn.

I applaud the sentiment as a Ex-Cadet, but the rules are the rules.

Not insured for another thing as not an official engagement or officially sanctioned.

Arc

[OmegaV6]

It's the Mail ... why let the truth get in the way of a selling headline ??

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[ShyTorque]

Not insured for another thing as not an official engagement or officially sanctioned.

Good grief - what have we come to? :hmm:

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Not insured for another thing as not an official engagement or officially sanctioned

Am I missing something sensible here? He's an ATC Cadet, not an Opel one (OK, different spelling).

[ShyTorque]

I suppose one could trip over a shoelace or something.

Or maybe their beret could fall over their eyes and they could walk into a door and get whiplash.

[NutLoose]

Some of the replies give further information

interesting from one poster

hannparker (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/6056954/hannparker/profile.html), Wolverhampton, United Kingdom, 15 hours ago
Can I add, they were given prior permission by some staff, and the 2minute silence was cut to 30secs in some classes!


some other Schools seem more enlightened

CMW (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/1361647122562593/CMW/profile.html), Manchester, United Kingdom, 14 hours ago
I am a teacher. We arranged for our children who are cadets to wear their uniform for the day as part of our commemorations.


Andrew Smith (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/1348310133570692/Andrew-Smith/profile.html), coventry, United Kingdom, 14 hours ago
Last year one of my students asked if he could wear his army cadet uniform, I asked his head of year and it was agreed. The key was he asked and organised the sale of poppies.


jayque (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/4832618/jayque/profile.html), Debtors Retreat, 15 hours ago
My sons school always invited cadets to wear their cadet uniforms on Armistice day they also look far smarter than most of the uniforms these days anyway


Gaz (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/4197207/Gaz/profile.html), Bolton, 16 hours ago
If the school has a policy on this matter it could do with a update. I had over 20 cadets in school from all the cadet services plus scouts and guides in uniform for a full week to commemorate the event and raise the profile of uniformed youth organisations. It all helps in personal development opportunities for young people. Our school policy allows for it! Take a leaf is my suggestion and update.

[charliegolf]

Insurance Claims.

The danger is that the cadets will look smarter than the school uniform wearers, which in turn might cause anxiety to the others, inevitably resulting in claims for therapy etc. Wise call, now I've reflected on it.

I'm a Head- call me Dick:ok:

CG

[ShyTorque]

Even worse, they might be reminded of the atrocity of war.......

I thought you were a retired head, CG?

[Bob Viking]

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons...
To those who are outraged by the actions of the school staff, how do you feel when you read head lines about Muslim girls being turned away from schools due to their wearing of face veils. That's a breach of uniform guidelines too.
Just saying...
BV

[charliegolf]

I thought you were a retired head, CG?

I was/did retire from my 'proper' school. Recruitment problems round here mean I am the go-to person when water needs to be added to a dehydrated packet marked, 'Spare Headteacher'.

Did a term in the summer, and now onto my third school in a year for a term which has just been extended to Easter 14. Am panicking about whether smoke n mirrors can last for 2 term in the same place.

Be assured, I do not confuse the words 'best' and 'only'! I am Plan B at the mo.

Having a new Audi though, so hey ho.

CG

[Evanelpus]

The danger is that the cadets will look smarter than the school uniform wearers, which in turn might cause anxiety to the others, inevitably resulting in claims for therapy etc. Wise call, now I've reflected on it.


God help you if there were any Muslims in class too!

[charliegolf]

Evan:

God help you if there were any Muslims in class too!

Which God?:ok:
CG

[Evanelpus]

The God of PC

[SilsoeSid]

I wonder if any if these cadets are also in the Scouting movement and feel that on 'Scouts Day' they should wear their Scouting/Guiding uniforms on the weekly cadet night?

[Arclite01]

Shy Torque

I am sure you would find the rules regarding wearing of uniform are laid down in ACP20B.

As I said, I applaud the sentiment...............

Arc

[SilsoeSid]

AIR CADET ADMINISTRATIVE INSTRUCTIONS
INSTRUCTION NO 204
DRESS REGULATIONS FOR THE AIR TRAINING CORPS

WEARING OF UNIFORM
2. The following general rules apply:
a. Members of the ATC are entitled to wear uniform only when attending authorised ATC meetings or parades or when specially authorised.


http://www.967atc.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/ACTI-204-Dress-Regulations-for-the-ATC.pdf


Wearing uniform without authorisation!!!
SGT MAJOR!!! More discipline needed in an ATC unit somewhere in the middle if England :ok:

Provost Sergeant Weston - Called up to Wolverhampton (http://youtu.be/6YpOvZIEw9s)

[Wander00]

Summary -

Kids should have asked ATC Sqn and school, but hearts in right place and best intentions.

School - Heads up their @rses, cannot see bigger picture or in Rugby terms - play "advantage".

Kids set good example, next year ask first

Next question..................

[Roland Pulfrew]

Next question..................

The insurance bit, wearing uniform and being on duty. Not that I care (because I will keep doing it until I go back to a unit that wants me to do it in an official capacity), but it did cross my mind that when I turn up at my local church, on Remembrance Sunday, in uniform, but not in an official capacity, is someone going to get their knickers in a twist over whether I am on duty or not? :E

[Wander00]

RP -ISTR something in dress regs (at least for officers) that wearing uniform on appropriate occasions was authorised as long as not as "fancy dress". No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong

Found this

Wearing of Uniform by retired, reserve and Royal Auxiliary Air Force Officers
0117. Occasions when No 1 Service Dress may be worn. Officers on the Retired and Reserve Lists, Royal Auxiliary Air Force officers and ex officers who are permitted to retain their rank may wear uniform on the following occasions:
a. When attending:
(1) Investitures and Royal Garden Parties.
(2) State ceremonial occasions.
(3) Parades in an official capacity, in connection with the celebration of the Sovereign’s birthday.
(4) Their own wedding or other military weddings when the sponsor requests the wearing of uniform.
Page 8 of 20 AL8 AP 1358, CHAP 1
(5) When attending formal Service functions.
b. When participating in an official capacity, in:
(1) Non-Service parades.
(2) War Memorial services and associated parades.
c. When inspecting or visiting:
(1) RAuxAF units in an official capacity.
(2) Units of the Combined Cadet Force (CCF) of the Air Training Corps (ATC) on behalf of the Ministry of Defence or Territorial and Auxiliary Forces Associations.
d. When appointed for service with the ATC (the rank badges to be worn are those appropriate to the ATC appointment).
e. When on duty as officials duly appointed by the Ministry of Defence.
f. When holding the appointments of ADC to Her Majesty’s Governor General or Governor.
g. When holding the appointment of Lord Lieutenant or Deputy Lord Lieutenant of a county, High Sheriff or Sheriff and discharging the duties of that appointment. (Lieutenancy insignia may not be worn on RAF dress but entitled RAF flying badges may be worn on the Lieutenancy dress).

[Pontius Navigator]

I think everyone concerned behaved properly except for the person on the outrage bus that chose to squawk to the media - the Torygraph had half the story too.

Parents should have ensured they took uniform to school for the PM session; in fact we don't know they didn't.

[TBM-Legend]

Such a pious bunch of pricks on here. These are kids trying to do something positive. Maybe they [and their parents] did not understand the correct protocols but what was the 'crime'? Put your burka or turbin on, don't polish your shoes, don't iron your shirt....all ok>>

Wake up world, we need kids like this.

[mckelvey]

Such a pious bunch of pricks on here. These are kids trying to do something positive. Maybe they [and their parents] did not understand the correct protocols but what was the 'crime'? Put your burka or turbin on, don't polish your shoes, don't iron your shirt....all ok>>

Wake up world, we need kids like this.

:D:D:D well said that man. Couldn't agree more.:D:D::D

[Wander00]

TBM.................as I said.........

W

[ShyTorque]

Having a new Audi though, so hey ho.

Hey ho indeed, I'm still working full time but never felt able to afford a new Audi... :sad:

P.s. well done, though - you're obviously indispensable! ;)

[AR1]

Ahh Schoolteachers.. Another parasite occupation where you take from the state for 25 years, retire then get allowed to take the pension and continue doing the same job. Like the police and the various 'civilian jobs' that they end up doing.

Anyway back on track (In my Mercedes Benz) It's simple, get the uniform cleared first.

I've seen all this tripe recently on the social meeja and it's utterly tiresome.

[TomJoad]

Sounds like you have a grievence there AR1. What happened were you disqualified at your school's egg and spoon race.:E

[Churchills Ghost]

What I do believe is that this is a fine opportunity for schools across Britain who accommodate cadets to endorse the annual wearing (on a voluntary basis) of cadet uniforms for the entire day on Armistice Day.

[charliegolf]

where you take from the state for 25 years, retire then get allowed to take the pension and continue doing the same job.

Firstly, thank you for continuing to fund my pension. I appreciate it.

My nibble here, is just to explain that one is not allowed to access one's pension and return to work too. Unless you do what I did- and take an actuarial hit of about 20% for ever, which released me from the usual strictures of the scheme. (It's a great scheme:ok:)

Thanks again.

CG

[Basil]

AR1, Another parasite occupation where you take from the state for 25 years, retire then get allowed to take the pension and continue doing the same job.
If you have a private sector pension you can do just that perfectly legally or you may choose to defer payment and accept a larger pension when it's eventually paid but, if you drive a Mercedes, you'd know that already :}

ps, Thanks to the 'parasites' who taught me, I did quite nicely, thank you all. Regret not sending pic of wings parade with 'Thank you' note to them all those years ago. My retired parasite wife, who used to spend three hours a night marking and calculating SATs :* is frequently greeted in town by former pupils and their parents who valued her contribution. I tell her it's a form of immortality.

[AR1]

Apologies for offending all teachers. I should have used 'parasitic' in that context.;)

[NutLoose]

As a fellow Audi driver, one would like to point out to those that have said they should have asked permission from the school,

A comment I listed earlier from where the School is.

Quote: hannparker (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/registration/6056954/hannparker/profile.html), Wolverhampton, United Kingdom, 15 hours ago
Can I add, they were given prior permission by some staff, and the 2minute silence was cut to 30secs in some classes!