Advise on flying lessons

[Easals]

Some advice needed please. I am a Capt with Virgin Atlantic and my son has indicated that he may be interested in becoming a pilot. He has never been in a light aircraft. Can anyone recommend a flying school in the south east area where I could get him 4 hours of flying over the weekend 26th 27th Oct. I need good value as his mother pillaged me during our divorce.Thanks in advance.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'm sure if you were a Captain with Virgin, you'd not need to register and post here to ask the question.

But that aside, SE of which country / continent / planet?

G

[MrAverage]

Putting aside the good questions Genghis has raised, four hours seems too much, why not just a 1 hour trial lesson to see if he likes it? In addition, how old is he?

[Easals]

Thanks for your very constructive comments. The country I'm talking about is the UK. I would like 4 hours so he can get a real good feel for flying, an hour I think isnt long enough. G, why do you doubt I'm a Capt with Virgin, how many long haul Pilots have the time for GA on their days off.

[Easals]

I think an hour isn't long enough. I'd like him to do handling, cross country etc and get a real feel for it before I start thinking about the 80k to send him to Oxford in a few years.
He is 15 years old.

[mad_jock]

Its perfectly normal to be honest G.

Some heavy tin drivers keep there finger in the pie and still fly GA and glide and microlight as a hobby. And others flying is a job and they make a point of keeping as far away from any airport as they can during time off.

Now the chap is obviously looking for a school in the SE of England which will do a taster course over two days and following pilot tradition he wants it to be as cheap as possible while he has his lad for his weekend.

Now to the gentleman in question.

You have multiple choices what to do with your lad.

1. go for 4 trial flights which is to much to be honest because apart from different scenery they will all be the same he will become bored. Last kid I had who's dad had done the same we ended up doing circuits for 2.5 hours which the kid loved. For the last hour of it I was just a pax with the 14 year old kid doing everything to a solo standard. But it really screws with the syllabus and in hind sight I wouldn't recommend it.

2. Get a ppl 5 hour starter pack which will have 30-45mins trial flight in it but the rest will be formal lessons. But you won't be able to use it all in that weekend.

3. Forget spam cans and go to a microlight school. And give him a shot of weight shift. And maybe a 1 hour trial flight in a spam can to finish with.

4. But I would say that having it locked down to one weekend is going to give you huge stress because guaranteed the wx is going to be pants. And four hours flying for a kid in two days is tough going and its 50/50 if it will put them off (or maybe that's the plan :D)

5. Get somewhere with a 4 seater and go for a 600 quid burger run with a land away. And you go in the back. From experience kids love dad being along and going somewhere via different routes keeps there interest up.

6. There is always the cross channel option down that end. But remember its a long way over water in a single.


As for which school I haven't go a clue but it ain't going to be cheap.

If it was me I would taken him for a microlight flight one day on a weight shift for an hour. Then the next go for a 4 seater flight with you in the back making suitable appreciative noises. It will also let you see if he has the knack or not and not be fed a line by the school. I would also keep stum about your job and then you can see if the school is one that you would want you lad to be trained at if you decided to take it further.

[Parson]

Not sure what their current rates are, but White Waltham is an interesting airfield with alot going on and a good place to hang out for a couple of days.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Its perfectly normal to be honest G.

Some heavy tin drivers keep there finger in the pie and still fly GA and glide and microlight as a hobby. And others flying is a job and they make a point of keeping as far away from any airport as they can during time off

I know that, but surely even these sad and unhappy individuals who think that flying is just a job, know plenty of people at work who are passionate about flying and can answer questions like that. Plus in my experience qualified pilots, even people who fly 747s, are usually precise to the point of saying which country they're talking about - a phrase like "SE of London", or "SE England" would convince me a tiny bit more. (On the other hand, an acrimonious divorce is at-least authentic.)


Apart from that, I think your advice is spot on. I'm sure the OP's question is honest and he really wants to know, even if I'm unconvinced that he's really an airline Captain.

G

[Rithalic]

Would definitely second the recommendation of wlac at white waltham.

[mad_jock]

I know that, but surely even these sad and unhappy individuals who think that flying is just a job, know plenty of people at work who are passionate about flying and can answer questions like that

You would be surprised G. Most pilots I have worked with don't have a valid SEP rating some haven't had one since they got an airline job 20-30 years ago. They have zero interest in GA and just see them as a pain in the arse which does practise pans.

And you don't actually get to see to many of your work colleagues week to week unless your on recurrent training. I would suspect that a long haul pilot is worse than a regional pilot like me. They maybe go into work 3-5 times a month and fly with the same person for a trip so might only speak to 3-4 pilots in a month.

[Easals]

Thank you to everyone for their suggestions, I will try out White Waltham. I found your suggestions Mad Jock very helpful and I appreciate the time you put into writing your ideas. If you don't fly with the airlines already, I would say you have the right attitude to go a long way. Good knowledge of how a long haul operation works also with regard to how much contact and how often we see our colleagues. Good luck to you.
Now Genghis The Engineer. I came onto this forum to ask a simple question and get some advice. Within a short time of my posting, you responded, not in a friendly manner but in a very aggressive fashion. Your knowledge of aviation is obviously limited and you are and probably always will be a long way from getting an airline job, if that is something you want. You obviously need to get away from these forums,( how many posts have you made for someone with little knowledge ) and concentrate on the job in hand. It seems to me that its the odd few people like yourself that give GA a bad rep.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Sorry if I caused offence old chap, but have no fear- an airline PILOT job is not on my personal career plan.

You must admit however that your first post doesn't necessarily read like something written by a professional pilot - well I didn't think so anyhow. My differently cynical friend Jock however clearly disagrees with me - and to be fair he tends to occupy more expensive cockpits than me. As for whether I know anything about aviation? I'm still learning like everybody else but make a decent living from it.

And we do have a bit of a track record on Pprune of people who pretended to be what they weren't. The two best known examples are (a) still in prison, and (b) should be.

And I still think Jock gave excellent advice - would you have really got much but exhaustion from 4 hours in 2 days, other than as a passenger, when you were a complete ab-initio? I'd have just been totally maxed out.

G

[BBK]

Hi easals

You may want to consider Cubair at Redhill. Perhaps an easier option if you're a commuter. The CFI is a trainer at Easy (ex GB) and it is/was a friendly club. Haven't been there in a while though.

Sounds like you may have an expensive time ahead! Hope your lad enjoys the flying.

regards

BBK

PS Does he live in the UK. Has he tried the Air Cadets?

[mad_jock]

I am training Captain on regional TP's Easals.

Been digging a tunnel to escape for a few years but nothing suitable has come along. Must admit though I haven't really put much effort in because I love flying the auld heap that I am currently on. And the routes etc are fun and I enjoy training.

BTW Easals G is a highly respected Engineer (not the kind that fixes the planes but the type that designs them) who also fly's things, in fact many things. He was even on telly with the test flights with the volcanic ash thing was going on.

I hope you both kiss and make up because he has a real love for all things flying and also wants the best for all trainee pilots. Which is similar to myself even though I am going to have to face facts and admit that my PPL instruction days as an FI are suspended indefinitely. Its just impossible for me to keep current, keep the ratings up and work 6 days on 1 off 5 days on and 2 off.

[TheOddOne]

Easals,

Try The Pilot Centre at Denham. Firstly, they're an absolutely excellent flight training establishment; also, they're very flexible and may be less expensive than WW.

Cheers,
The Odd One

[Genghis the Engineer]

Easals,

Try The Pilot Centre at Denham. Firstly, they're an absolutely excellent flight training establishment; also, they're very flexible and may be less expensive than WW.

Cheers,
The Odd One

Good recommendation. Nice friendly spot wih a good range of aeroplanes, some interesting countryside to fly over and a super cafe next door - I have a very soft spot for their fresh made pizzas. Very close to LHR.

G

[dobbin1]

Hi easals

You may want to consider Cubair at Redhill. Perhaps an easier option if you're a commuter. The CFI is a trainer at Easy (ex GB) and it is/was a friendly club. Haven't been there in a while though.

Sounds like you may have an expensive time ahead! Hope your lad enjoys the flying.

regards

BBK

PS Does he live in the UK. Has he tried the Air Cadets?

I am an instructor at Cubair and we still are a friendly club.:)

4 hours in a weekend is a lot, although 15 year olds tend to be quite capable. Not sure he would get much out if the cross country unless he does the flight planning and I think that would be too much. We could do the effects of controls/straight and level exercises on each leg of a landaway to a different location on both weekend days- might be a fun way to do it. I can even throw in some aerobatics if he is up for it.

We use DA20A1 aircraft as our basic trainers, but we have a PA28 as well. Aeros would be in a T67m. And if Dad wants to try his hand at some Tailwheel training at the same time, we have a SuperCub.

[BEagle]

Easals, you're bound to get a lot of people advising you that this/that/the other flying school is best for your lad.

Perhaps an alternative strategy would be for you and him to go flying with a private pilot? There must be some √irgin pilots who fly light aircraft?

If he wants to 'get involved', then the Air Cadet organisation is certainly to be recommended though.

[dobbin1]

Perhaps an alternative strategy would be for you and him to go flying with a private pilot? There must be some √irgin pilots who fly light aircraft?

Indeed there are. I checked out a Virgin Captain on the Cub just a few days ago. However, it seems a shame not to do these hours as time loggable toward a PPL.

[md 600 driver]

easels

maybe try at falcon helicopters bourne park near andover [they also have a fixed wing ]
the owner is also a captain with virgin

[Dan the weegie]

Mad Jock, be honest you haven't tried hard to get out because you are a lazy barstool.
To the OP MJ's advice is excellent, you may get better value out of a microlight lesson and whether the flight can be logged or not is largely irrelevant, you want him to enjoy flying first an hour of single flying here or there isn't going to stack up much relative to the fistfuls of dosh you're going to lay on in 5 years.
Love the idea of a lesson in a microlight and then taking him for a fish and chips run, may do that with my snotlings when they are big enough :).

Good luck, I hope your boy realises how lucky he is :)

[memories of px]

I dont know if Shoreham is convenient for you, but i can reccommend Stuart Mckinnon of phoenixflying.org, he is a BA pilot and has renewed many virgin atlantic pilots PPL priveleges, a good guy.

[memories of px]

i would also say that 4 hours is quite a lot in a weekend, 45 minutes airborne is about right for a first air experience, maybe another sortee later that day, but dont forget clock change/less daylight and autumn weather may play a role.

[Dave Barnshaw]

Why not nip in to Booker Aviation at Wycombe Air Park and tell them what you need,the instructors are second to none,also there is a Virgin Captain there that flies an RV12. The advantage for Wycombe Air Park is that they have both grass and hard runways,under persistant rain White Waltham can be closed for days.:rolleyes: