PPL Renewal - JAA/EASA?

[pumuckl]

I have a question which hopefully someone can help me with: I have a JAA UK PPL (SEP Land) which I just noticed lapsed in June 2012. I am currently overseas and it is difficult to keep current here as there is no GA in this country...

With all the EASA stuff coming in , what do I need to do in order to transfer the PPL to EASA and to keep it current? Will it be enough to take a few more flights with an instructor and do the one hour with an examiner for him to sign me off again, or is there anything else that I need to do? I would have to go back to the UK for this during a holiday. (I have kept my medical current and have a current EASA (UK) Class 1.)

Appreciate any pointers in the right direction.

[Whopity]

You don't make it clear if its the licence that lapsed or if its the SEP rating that lapsed. All JAA licences became EASA licences in Sept 2012 so you only need to take action as you approach the 5 year expiry point. You can complete SRG1104 and obtain an EASA licence document which will be a lifetime licence. You do not need a valid Class rating to do this. You can then revalidate or renew the SEP rating when you get back to UK.

If its the SEP rating that has lapsed, then you can renew it when you get back to the UK, you now have to go to a RF or ATO to obtain a Course Completion Certificate before completing a proficiency check.

You will need an assessment of Level 6 English in order to obtain the new licence this may already have been completed.

[pumuckl]

Thanks, Whopity. I just double checked, and I actually renewed my JAA PPL in 2011 and my PPL(A) is valid until July 2016. It is still a JAA licence though, issued by the UK CAA. My RT Licence is also valid until 2016. It is only the class rating (SEP Land) that lapsed in 2012.

I have a UK ATCO licence and an endorsement of English level 6 on that (and also on my overseas ATCO licence). The PPL just states: Language Proficiency: English. Given that my ATCO licences already state level 6 proficiency, I would hope that I won't have to sit another test for the PPL?

To renew my SEP rating next time I'm in the UK - what do you mean by obtaining a course completion certificate? What course? Last time I renewed my SEP rating in Sandtoft where I was a member (though I didn't do my PPL with them as I did my PPL in Florida under the UK syllabus, hence issued by the UK CAA) and I was hoping to go back to Sandtoft to get it done again. Last time (in 2010) I just sat a flight test with an examiner and he signed off my SEP rating revalidation in my licence and sent the relevant forms to the UK CAA for their records. I will of course get in touch with them and double check, but has the process changed greatly since 2010?

[Cobalt]

Any renewal of an (expired) rating now requires a course at a flying school before you can fly the proficiency check.

While there are recommendations, ultimately the course duration and content are at the discretion of the school, and once you are done they give you a certificate. If they feel no training is required, they can issue a certificate saying so, but typically that is reserved to just a few days over or if you are demonstrably current using a different licence.

If you are a bit rusty, they should just go fly a test profile check you out, and if all is fine they will give you a course completion certificate and off you go into the test. If not, it's training as required until they do.

[Whopity]

It is still a JAA licence though, issued by the UK CAA.As of Sept 2012 it is deemed to be an EASA licence! So long as you don't let it lapse by more than 3 years, the examiner can sign it up, after that it has to go through the CAA with an additional charge.

[pumuckl]

Thanks for the replies, very helpful. I had no idea they had changed the renewal process, but then I had never let the rating lapse before.

My SEP rating lapsed in June 2012, so I'm within the 3 years and my JAA (now EASA) licence is still valid till 2016. Of course I'm a bit rusty due to not being able to fly GA where I am, so I was going to take a few lessons anyway to get back into it, but good to know I have to do a "course".

Hopefully I'll be current again soon!

[mike172]

Sorry to dig this thread back up, thought it would be better than starting a fresh one.

My JAA PPL expired in June of this year though my SEP rating is still valid until next year and my medical is well in date.

Obviously I need to renew my licence (which will be converted to an EASA one at the same time if I understand correctly) and therefore have filled out SRG 1104...

Two questions...

What on earth is this "I confirm that I have demonstrated the use of radio nav aids..."?

And also, I am a little confused as the what, if anything, I send in support of my renewal. I get the impression that I send my medical and certificate of revalidation but the guidance notes mentioin "Certifiers of ID" without mentioning what ID...

I'm sorry to ask but the CAA website couldn't be any less user friendly...

[High-Flyer2]

A copy of your Driving licence (photo card) or Passport. I used a copy of my driving licence and got the CFI to stamp and sign it verifying I am who I say I am.

HF2

[BEagle]

Any renewal of an (expired) rating now requires a course at a flying school before you can fly the proficiency check.

Not true.

AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1)(a)(3) provides guidance only, not mandatory requirements.

[Level Attitude]

Any renewal of an (expired) rating now requires a course at a flying school
before you can fly the proficiency check.
Not true.

AMC1 FCL.740(b)(1)(a)(3) provides guidance only, not mandatory requirements.

Not true.
To renew a rating a candidate must present the examiner with
a Course Completion Certificate prior to LPC - therefore they must
have done a course at an ATO/RF (even if it was zero hours long).
Exactly as Cobalt stated

[BillieBob]

Under JAA procedures, AMCs were, indeed, purely guidance and many were routinely ignored; however, under EU law, things are a little different. Where a single AMC is published in relation to a requirement it represents the only acceptable means of compliance. Any person or organisation may propose an alternative means of compliance and, if accepted by the competent authority, either means may then be used to comply with the relevant requirement.

However, whilst the AMC in this case is, to all intents and purposes, mandatory, the amount of training is not. The ATO 'can' take into consideration the training times quoted in the AMC, it can equally well decide not to and it is probably worth shopping around to find the easiest and cheapest route to renewal.

[BEagle]

...whilst the AMC in this case is, to all intents and purposes, mandatory...

That is NOT the view of the CAA.

As for a 'zero length course', that is palpably absurd. All that is required is a statement that 'no training was necessary'.

[mike172]

Cheers for your reply HF2.

[BillieBob]

That is NOT the view of the CAA.Well, since my post above paraphrases an e-mail from L&TS Policy, you will forgive me if I continue to believe that it IS the view of the CAA. You, of course, may also continue to believe what you wish, as may everyone else.

[worldpilot]

Whats is the correct interpretation of "Language Proficiency: English" as endorsed in the UK License?:confused:

I'm applying for a conversion from JAR-FCL to EASA Part-FCL and I've been notified that I need language proficiency test despite the fact that I've the above mentioned endorsement in my licence.:ugh::=

What are your experiences with this?
Do I have to fly to England to prove to the CAA that I can confidently articulate aviation language or what?

I posted it here to avoid starting a new thread on this issue.

WP

[MrAverage]

The statement on your licence merely confirms that, at the time that page was issued, you had some level of english proficiency. Most likely it was level 4, the validity of which would have expired 4 years after the page date. Unless an Examiner has upgraded you to level 6 you cannot be issued with an EASA licence.

Send me a personal message if you want more info.

[dirkdj]

Mr Average,

Level 6 means you are (practically) a native English speaker and this means you don't need a retest ever.

Level 4 is for non-native speakers, after passing a test, they have to redo the test every 6? years.

[LowNSlow]

For those who are worried that lapsed ratings would go on the back of the new EASA Licence and not be renewable I had this communication with the CAA FCL department:



I understand that if I replace my CAA PPL with an EASA PPL then my lapsed Ratings (Multi Engine and IMC) will only be entered into the comments section of the EASA PPL thus effectively preventing me from revalidating these ratings in the future.

Am I correct in this assumption? If I am, do I have until 9th April 2015 to revalidate my ratings or do they have to be revalidated by 8th April 2014?

Best regards,

LowNSlow

and the reply was:

Dear Mr LowNSlow

Thank you for your email.

I can confirm that you are correct in stating that if your ratings are not current at the time of licence issue, then the ratings will appear on the reverse side of the new EASA licence. This however does not mean that you are no longer able to renew the rating, in order to renew the rating you will be required to attend refresher training at an EASA ATO and complete a LPC and submit the correct paperwork to our department for assessment. There is no date that this refresher training would need to be completed by.

Yours sincerely

Helpful Gentleman,

Personnel Licensing
Hub
UK Civil Aviation Authority

The names have been changed to protect the innocent !

[MrAverage]

dirkdj

You are of course correct about level 6, but we were both wrong about level 4. That expires after only 3 years. Level 5 expires after 6.

By the way, level 4 is not just for non native speakers. I regularly deal with British born pilots who are not up to level 6 standards..........

[Level Attitude]

Whats is the correct interpretation of "Language Proficiency: English"
as endorsed in the UK License?"Language Proficiency: English" marked on a UK issued JAR Licence simply
means that, sometime in the past, the holder was deemed to be
Level 4 or higher.

A bit of background (from memory only so may not be 100% correct):

When the Language Proficiency requirement came in the UK CAA decided
not to indicate the level of proficiency on the actual Licence - but to keep a
record themselves.

All pilots who had a UK FRTOL were automatically deemed to be Level 4.

UK Examiners (who had to be recorded as Level 6 themselves) were
empowered to assess if candidates were Level 6 - if not Level 6 then a
Language School assessment would be required.

As most Ratings were valid for one year, the SEP for two years, then it
was anticipated that the bulk of pilots would be in contact with Examiners
during the validity period of their existing Level 4 LP and the Examiner
would assess their actual level and, if 6, report this to CAA as part of
Rating renewal/revalidation paperwork.

This did not always happen and, even if it did, the CAA often omitted to
record it on their database - and with no level being indicated on the
actual Licence pilots ended up being totally unaware what, if any, valid
Language Proficiency they had.

With the change to EASA and the LP level being stated on the Licence the
CAA will only issue a new Part-FCL Licence if they already hold on record
a valid proficiency level, or if they receive a new official notification of
level along with the Licence application.