HAWK IN THE BARRIER AT MONA

[KPax]

Just seen a picture of a Hawk in the Barrier at Mona after a 'goose strike'. Just wondered apart from the Hawk do we have anything left that will take the barrier, not sure if a GR4 would but may have seen a picture from way back.

[just another jocky]

Hope yon pilot/crew are ok.

GR4 will certainly take a barrier.

[Linedog]

BBC News - RAF jet ends up in safety net at Mona airfield after 'goose strike' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-24083131)

[Courtney Mil]

Actually, the Hawk isn't that great in the barrier. During my early years on the jet, there was a lot of discussion about it and a lot of instructors at the time were very specific about which emergencies would make them decide to take the net and which would lead them to eject on the runway. I remeber that one of the concerns was the tapes preventing the crew from opening the "sideways" canopy in the case of a fire.

Perhaps others here have later news on that. I certainly don't recall the issue being mentioned in my later time instructing.

Anyway, the picture in the RAF News doesn't seem to indicate a problem there, so GOOD.

Back in time for tea and Green Endorsements all round, I hope.

[safetypee]

Fairly big bird based on the remains in the left hand intake; – gallery pics via dailypost.
RAF jet overslips runway at Mona Airfield; crew unhurt - North Wales Weekly News (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/raf-jet-overslips-runway-mona-5932218)

[PURPLE PITOT]

"Talk to me Goose"

Hat, coat.........

[Madbob]

Looks to like a text book engagement and the barrier did exactly what its supposed to do. Good decisions all round.

Anyone fancy a slice of roast goose?

MB

[whowhenwhy]

Pretty sure that GR4 doesn't take the barrier, hence the crochet hook on the back.

[racedo]

Can see the response for Pilot in the Bar.............

Dave, Pulled a Fat Bird
Dave, Pulled a Fat Bird
Dave, Pulled a Fat Bird

[ASRAAM]

I think both Tornados (F3 and GR) were cleared to take a barrier, although a cable would be the preferred option. The difficulty would be that they are about 5 times heavier than a Hawk and at any sort of speed the pull out would exceed the over run available on barrier engagement.

[Easy Street]

Pretty sure that GR4 doesn't take the barrier, hence the crochet hook on the back.

Sigh..... I know these are anonymous forums but when people use words like 'certainly' it tends to indicate they know what they're talking about, whereas those who use words like 'pretty sure' are self-evidently coming from a position of ignorance. Since you didn't believe 'just another jocky', I'll repeat what he said and see if you believe it this time:

GR4 will certainly take a barrier.

It has a hook as well. There is no rule that says aircraft must be restricted to one means of emergency stopping. If you still don't believe it, go planespotting at Marham from the A1122 and watch them put the barrier up for Tornado takeoffs. ASRAAM is right in that the pull-out is greater with a heavier aircraft, so Tornado bases are equipped with a "RAF Type B" barrier that is selectable for 'heavy' or 'light' aircraft. At the 'heavy' setting it can take a fully-loaded Tonka at 100kts or so. To my knowledge, last tried in about 2004... a tale of woe that shall not see the light of day on here (not from me anyway!).

[ATCO Fred]

2003 Hawk XX350 took the barrier at Mona 15 Sep due birdstrike.
2003 GR4 ZA452 took the barrier at Marham on 21 Nov after missing the cable when aborting after Birdstrike. Barrier engagement speed reported s 95-100 kts.

Seem to remember a Jaguar taking the barrier that year as well. Engine failure I think !!

Regards
Fred

[Bob Viking]

I always remember one take off in particular from Coltishall. It was a very hot day (30-35 C) and I was in a 104 engined jet with two tanks, two CBLS and missiles (a pretty standard training fit) where I thought to myself that if the barrier had been up for take off (Jag standard was always down but available) I may well have hit it (yes I had selected burners and flown the take off correctly, as far as I'm aware!).

Cue stories involving either:
a) The curvature of the Earth, or
b) You should have tried it with the 102 engine, in the Middle East, with bombs on!

Anyway, back to the story. Bloody good job from CB (and student) to get the jet safely into the barrier on what is a pretty short runway, especially when practicing (P)FLs. The pictures would suggest that dinner was also taken care of!
BV:ok:

[Tashengurt]

Just wondering. What's the deceleration like during a barrier engagement? Whiplash inducing or less dramatic?


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[Always a Sapper]

IIRC there was a period in the mid 90's where the barrier's were doing their own thing and started popping up all on their own without the local controller pressing the desk button.

We had to go round and isolate them from the MCS so they would only go up using the local control.

Barriers popping up unexpected would make those take offs and landings interesting :E

[ZeBedie]

Saw a shiny black Hawk fuselage on the back of a lorry heading East towards Shawbury last night.

[Just This Once...]

Whiplash inducing or less dramatic?

Bit of a non-event really if everything stays straight (as with mine).

I've only taken the approach-end cable once and that felt really benign.

Taking an unexpected approach end barrier not look fun and I gather it rather startled the crew (Tabuk).

[BEagle]

Ask sharpend about goose strikes in a Hawk.....:eek:

[12 twists per inch]

ZeB you are correct. Birdstrike hawk from Cardiff into Shawbury for some TLC

[John Farley]

Taschengurt

Whiplash needs one to be accelerated quickly so that the head snaps back too far for the neck to tolerate. Hence car head rests.

Being decelerated just puts your chin on your chest which happens without a problem on every ejection without a blind.

[Rhino power]

Whiplash needs one to be accelerated quickly so that the head snaps back too far for the neck to tolerate. Hence car head rests.
The NHS also describes whiplash (not actually a recognized medical term) injuries as arising from sudden movement from both forward and sideways movement of one's noggin, not just rearwards. The main sufferers of this mythical injury appear to frivolous car insurance claimants... :hmm:

-RP

[The Helpful Stacker]

In A&E its known as 'cashlash'. Working in a hospital close to the M1 we see a fair amount of it, unfortunately.

[Tashengurt]

I've seen a miracle cure for whiplash. Four firefighters threatening to take the roof off a car. Worked a treat!


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[just another jocky]

Sigh..... I know these are anonymous forums but when people use words like 'certainly' it tends to indicate they know what they're talking about, whereas those who use words like 'pretty sure' are self-evidently coming from a position of ignorance. Since you didn't believe 'just another jocky', I'll repeat what he said and see if you believe it this time:

GR4 will certainly take a barrier.

It has a hook as well. There is no rule that says aircraft must be restricted to one means of emergency stopping. If you still don't believe it, go planespotting at Marham from the A1122 and watch them put the barrier up for Tornado takeoffs. ASRAAM is right in that the pull-out is greater with a heavier aircraft, so Tornado bases are equipped with a "RAF Type B" barrier that is selectable for 'heavy' or 'light' aircraft. At the 'heavy' setting it can take a fully-loaded Tonka at 100kts or so. To my knowledge, last tried in about 2004... a tale of woe that shall not see the light of day on here (not from me anyway!).

Thank you ES, glad to see I still remember something from my 20+ years flying the Tornado.

Were you at Marham that day? I was. :eek: :oh:

[Courtney Mil]

I've seen a miracle cure for whiplash. Four firefighters threatening to take the roof off a car. Worked a treat!

Love it, Tash!!! :D:D:D

[Lima Juliet]

The arrestor cable was always first choice in Tornado as there was always a worry that the top steel cable of the barrier would come down on the middle of the canopy, go through it, slide accross the TV Tabs and then slice the Nav's head off. I was led to believe that this fear came form early trials on the Tornado and a cracked canopy after a barrier engagement - I don't believe that there was ever a repeat on the myriad of actual barrier engagements.

As for the Jag and the barrier being up - that resulted in killing a good mate of mine in Jan 96...:sad:

LJ

[Could be the last?]

So who is flying the T1 now, as I thought that they had been retired when 4 Sqn got the T2? (Other than the Reds)

[RileyDove]

100 Sqn at Leeming

[Tashengurt]

Feel free to shoot me down but isn't it a Navy jet?

[Lima Juliet]

208 Sqn are still flying the T1 at Valley...

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafvalley/rafcms/mediafiles/C161C201_5056_A318_A82821750F4ED4C0.jpg

[longer ron]

The Navy fleet requirements unit (or whatever it is called this year :))

ETPS + RAFCAM at Boscombe D

A Hawk T1 major service programme is just starting at 2 or 3 different locations !

[Sam Dodger]

In the early 1980s a student of mine on the Hawk, fortunately on a solo sortie, engaged the barrier at Mona. During the successful barrier engagement, which was offset from the centre line, the LH wing went outside of the wooden post which supported the top wire of the arrester barrier and over the top of the upper barrier wire. The upper wire broke through the canopy just behind the front seat and embedded itself below the head box of the rear MB seat where my neck would have been had I been in the back seat. Hope you back seat guys at VY are still aware of this problem.

[mopardave]

Yup.......seen it at first hand! Amazing how people react when you explain that you're about to peel their pride and joy open! On the down side, we're no longer able to sit rtc victims in our pump in case they subsequently "develop" whiplash........cos then we'd have to take the roof off the pump.......and that would be embarrassing! The police have been caught out with that little scam!
Sorry about the thread drift gents! :ok:

[mopardave]

that should have incorporated #25.......can't think why it didn't. :hmm:

[Rhino power]

Feel free to shoot me down but isn't it a Navy jet?

No, its a 208(R) jet...

-RP

[clicker]

mopardave,

Happened in Sussex earlier this year. Woman stopped her car to help at the scene of an accident and sat the two people in her car awaiting police etc.

Then they complained of whiplash to the ambulance crew who got the fire brigade to take off the roof.

[Dengue_Dude]

Good to see the barrier worked as advertised and, although we don't know the engagement speed, there is little/no damage visible from these photos.


I'd call that a good result.

[racedo]

I've seen a miracle cure for whiplash. Four firefighters threatening to take the roof off a car. Worked a treat!

Used to think was a con until got rear ended when stopping to let a Police car go by, headaches, pain and sore muscles was order of the day, other drivers insurance sorted out Physio for me and after half a dozen visits it sorted itself out.

Had no intentions of making a claim but again his insurance called and desperately wanted to make a cash sum settlement quickly............I took it.

[Madbob]

Sam Dodger - perhaps the outcome would have been different had you been on board, as unlike your stude, you would have steered the ac into the centre of the net!:O:O

That's what sets you apart as a QFI :ok:.

MB

[Alex Whittingham]

As I was the stude involved I can confidently say that had Sam Dodger been on board I wouldn't have been anywhere near the barrier. 'Twas a massive student foul up caused entirely by me. Luckily the aircraft was Cat 2.999 as I recall, which meant not too much of an investigation.

[AGS Man]

Sorry to be late on this thread folks but as this is my speciality (for my sins) I'll clear up a few points.
Tornado is certainly cleared to engage the Barrier, Typhoon is not.
Leon... There are no longer steel cables in the net these days, the RAF uses the British All Nylon Net (BAN) on the Mark 12 system which is antiquated to say the least, as is the RHAG.
I was on the Barrier crew at Tabuk the night the Tornado hit the approach end net. I won't go into details but it was a sod of a job sorting out. All I will say is that for a net to go up on it's own can only happen if there is a short in the underground control cable (17 wires) and only if 2 particular wires short together which I have never seen happen in 36 years in this field!
On the more modern systems (that the RAF doesn't use) the retardation force is very similar to that of the cable although run out distances can be set to provide a shorter stopping distance it should still not exceed 2.5G.
The most modern nets known as HP40 normally will cause minimal damage to the aircraft but before any of the FJ fraternity think about driving your 20 ton tricycle into one for fun bear in mind that they do cost around $100,000 a pop!