RAF VC10 - Great Memories

[SRENNAPS]

Apologies if this video has been shown here before.

If it has not been posted here before it is well worth a look.

I find it very sad to think that I will (almost definitely) never fly in a VC10 again. With my many detachments I wish I had kept a record of how many hours I flew in this beautiful aircraft.

RAF VC10 Biggin Hill 2010 - Incredible takeoff & Display! Unique footage! - YouTube

[CoffmanStarter]

SRENNAPS ... Thanks for posting :ok:

A wonderful aeroplane ... far ahead of it's time when first introduced ... sad to see her go :{

Coff.

[Davita]

My keyboard needs wiping...its full of tears while I watched that video, so thanks for posting.
As an F/E I was one of the first batch of crew on No.10 Sqdn. We were ground trained by BOAC and did Flt. Sim at Cranebank whilst the first RAF VC10 models arrived at Brize Norton and Fairford.
After training I was sent to OCTU and, after graduating with a commission, was lucky to return to 10Sqn and to crew with Sqn Ldr. Pete Wooldridge DFC, AFC.
We did many airshows, just like the one on the video. When the A/C was light it was remarkably maneouverable, but sometimes too light to land with ease. I think I witnessed that on the video.

A dramatic trip I recall was when the PM of Australia went swimming and was never again found. They had a requiem in Melbourne and we crewed Gan to Tullamarine, which had just opened. Our VIP pax were Prince Charles: Hon. Harold Wilson: Hon. Edward Heath.

The A/C parked next to us was a B707 labelled Air Force I. President Johnson left earlier than we did and his T.O. was a very low, slow climb out. We found later he went all the way to Saigon to meet the troops...it was Xmas.
We were next and only carried enough fuel for Perth. Pete winked at me and said..."Max power V2 Climb Dave" I knew and winked back. We were tuned to the local radio station to hear the commentary as thousands of people attended the send-off.
As any VC10 afficionado will know the roar out of those Conways is deafening when they are floored...and I floored them and even tripped-off the compressors to get max thrust..... and off we went. The excitement from the commentors voice was equal to the adrenalin in the A/C. Pete slightly overcooked his rotate and the stick shaker well...shaked! so we had to push fwd a little but the ROC was still unbelievable.
Prince Charles thought this was fun.
The Prime Minister was not amused ....he never did seem to have much humour.
The Leader of the Opposition was still complaining that his seat was down the back with the Staff.
On a later flight to Offutt (USA) the government had changed and so had the seating plan.

I left 10Sqn to teach in the Flt Sim which was the original digital sim and had a funny old rolling map display.
After leaving the RAF and joining an airline those fun days diminished and the days on the VC10 became a very nice but distant memory...mind, I did 10 years on B747 which was some compensation.

[Wrathmonk]

the PM of Australia went swimming and was never again found

That intrigued me so had to google it - amazing what you learn here on PPRuNe. Every day is a school day.

[Wander00]

Sadly I flew in a VC10 only a couple of times, and both when I was in my TA incarnation, between two regular RAF careers. We were going to Germany for a major exercise and when got to the desk at Brize the DAMO was a guy I had known at Watton during career 1. We passed the time of day and I went off to await boarding. My CO and I boarded then sat together about half-way down the aircraft. I then became aware that one of the crew was making his way down the aircraft and people were pointing in our direction, so assumed they were after the Boss. Wrong: crew member asked if I was Captain W, I admitted I was. There is seat nearer the front for you, I was told. There was - the jump seat. Boss seriously not amused, even when I explained. Great flight though -both ways as similar arrangements had been made for the return.

[NutLoose]

Best display I saw was a practice with I think the Wing Commander O/C OPS, we were watching him approach at full power, ready for the throttles shut low pass but he had obviously got it well off the centreline and was attempting to correct it.... Never seen a VC10 streaming vortices with a shock wave forming before :eek:,

A suitably chastised Wing Co at debrief explaining that he had " over gee'd it a bit" and could it be looked at on the QT. Requests as to how much G he pulled were met with indifference and a total reluctance to say, checking the cockpit the G meter had been reset, therefore the only sensible approach was to do the checks IAW nigh on the maximum G loading inspection, which he can't of been far off, this takes time so the aircraft state to Group went in that night with it down for over G checks.... So much for on the QT as the phone started ringing.

But I always remember watching that, really did look impressive, and we found nothing amiss with it. :ok:

[alisoncc]

Might not be bad place to ask. December '65 on a 10 to RAF Muharraq, Bahrain having been posted to RAF Sharjah. We were kitted out at Muckrack. Can't for the life of me remember where we left from, nor remember whether it was an RAF Transport Command aircraft or a commercial charter. Do remember the jockey pulling the nose up and we shifted it!!! Bloody magic. So how were the troops relocated back then and from where?

[Davita]

In 1965 if you were on a VC10 I'm pretty sure you were on an RAF Transport Command 10 Sqn A/C and left from RAF Brize Norton, near Oxford.
The daily schedule for trooping families and troops was: BZ...Bahrain...Gan....S'pore...Hong Kong. The return was Gan...Nicosia...BZ.
and was run like an airline....Brize Movements looked like an airport terminal.

Edit: looks like I've had a memory lapse, happens a lot.:O
As Brian48Nav points out the VC10 did not start trooping from Brize till around 1967 so I have no idea where the poster could have flown from.
After 1967, it surely would have been from Brize.

btw I used to live in MQs at RAF Fairford when the 2nd Concorde, flown by Brian Trubshaw, did its first flight.
Damned if I can remember that date either!

@Brian48Nav..... I was an F/E on 48Sqn Hastings at Changi....Now I think of it that may have ended around 1965....:confused:

[Brian 48nav]

No doubt a 10Sqn 'mate' will confirm as well - but 10 Sqn didn't reform with the VC10 until 1st Jul '66.

The first military 10 flew out of Wisley ( I think) late Nov '65; I saw it come over Farnborough, where I had a temporary job before joining the mob on 13th Dec' 65.

[Oldsarbouy]

Correct, 10 Squadron did reform on the 1st July 1966 initially at Fairford before moving to Brize in May 1967. This is imprinted on my brain having spent a long time researching both VC10 squadrons for a leaflet which will be included with a specially commissioned Malt Whisky to mark the 47 years of military VC10 operations and which will be released soon. Proceeds from this will be divided equally between Morayvia and the RAF Benevolent Fund. Morayvia had hoped to purchase a VC10 but the price asked was too high for a small onganisation. Feel free to pm me for further details of the whisky.

[Exascot]

"Max power V2 Climb Dave"

We were flying a bunch of F3 jockeys back from the Gulf to Leuchars (?), Scotland anyway, at the end of Op Granby. I had just obtained my ATPL and spent most of the flight down the back running a seminar on said subject.

After we had landed a bunch of their jets recovered to base with considerable panache - as they would.

On departure I decided to show them what a 'big fast jet' can do. The cloud (stratus) base was around 1,000 ft. Empty aircraft, crew briefed to hang on. Feet on brakes, full power and let it go. V2 climb and shot into the cloud probably leaving a few people temporally deaf :ok:

[Exascot]

This may have been posted before but still a nice little noisy clip!

RAF VC10 at Manchester Airport - YouTube

[sharpend]

17 years flying VC10s. Loved every minute!

[ICM]

Whilst 10 Sqn did re-form initially at Fairford, as has been said, all flights with payloads had to be mounted from Lyneham till facilities at Brize - a building site then, as now - were able to cope with them from Spring 1967. Fortunately my time came later, but I understand that this involved a duty crew positioning the aircraft at Lyneham on the day prior to departure. Next day, the operating crew would convene, and brief and flightplan at Brize before being bussed over to Lyneham. On returns to Lyneham, if weather and serviceability allowed, the op crew would normally fly the aircraft back to Fairford.

This does not sound like fun - and I've also been told of a particularly unpopular slip used at that time: Brize - bus to Lyneham - direct to Bahrain/Muharraq - 2/3 hour turnround - to Akrotiri and slip. That schedule could almost involve two dawns in one duty day, and makes the Akrotiri Return of the mid-70s seem mild by comparison.

For alisoncc: Your December 1965 flight to Muharraq might have been on a British United VC 10 from Gatwick - they were certainly being used for MOD charter to Aden in 1966 when I went out there.

[Davita]

LCM is correct in his recall of the early days of the VC10 trooping, although that arrangement was short-lived; and that BU did VC10 charter trooping.

My recollection of the RAF VC10 purchase was the UK Gov't was faced with a cancellation of the final 10? VC10's ordered by BOAC (then a Gov't airline) as they found the B707 more economical. The RAF was ordered to find a use.

MOD's obvious solution was to take over all trooping which, with UK's many military bases scattered world-wide, was substantial.

I remember a crew, headed by Capt. Sqn Ldr Alf Musgrove with F/E Sqn Ldr Dave Nelson, were tasked to review mods to the BOAC model so that it would fit into the RAF role. They were the ones that suggested on the 'standard' fuselage with the bigger 'super' engines. They also recommended the APU, cargo door, in-flight refuelling option and most importantly...a Navigator station.

With regard to crew slipping/positioning: I also recall being a member of a team of 2 crews and some doctors/nurses. We flew non-stop around the world, sharing sectors, and being medically and psychologically analyzed.
They didn't like our tearful moans as we would see the skyline of major cities, like Honolulu, from the cockpit windows, but not allowed to get off the A/C. I understood this was a test to see if we could get troops to our bases overseas if any country would block overflights. I believe we failed!

These recollections are from memory so not substantiated. My logbooks from that era, bound together by inmates from Changi Jail, were eaten by white ants when I later moved into a new house in Hong Kong....I know, I know, it is hard to believe....an ex Halton brat can afford to live in a 'house' in Hong Kong?...:E

[RetiredBA/BY]

Quote:

They also recommended the APU, cargo door, in-flight refuelling option and most importantly...a Navigator station.

Surprising ! The VC10s in BOAC already had a nav station, spent many hours at it, then joy of joys, INS, dual Carousel 4s !!

But the RAF was right to request an APU !

What a wonderful aeroplane, the sound of which could only be bettered by a Merlin or a Concorde in full burner !

[BBadanov]

My first VC10 trip was in late November 1970, "indulging" on the 10 Sqn service from Singapore to UK. Route was Changi (still an RAF base) - Gan (where I believe the crew would compete to get a leg-over in the 90-minute stop!)- Muharraq (Bahrain) - Brize.

First time I flew in an aircraft with rearward facing seats! Despite that, an excellent service. :ok:

[sisemen]

As Brian48Nav points out the VC10 did not start trooping from Brize till around 1967 so I have no idea where the poster could have flown from.

British United. Flew the troopers from Gatwick to Muharraq and then onwards - Aden or the Far East.

[sisemen]

Just did a tot up - 115 hours on the beast. Last flight 23 Nov 89 with Sqn Ldr Hamilton on the stick 5.1 hours.

[Art Field]

As one who came to the VC10 mainly in the Tanker side, did 10 superb years, but last flew it 20 years ago and has just watched one on the approach to Brize, oh boy what a great aircraft.

[alisoncc]

British United. Flew the troopers from Gatwick to Muharraq and then onwards - Aden or the Far East.

That rings a bell. Most probably the 10 I flew on was a civvy one. Still great aeroplane.

[Dan Winterland]

VC10 Air to Air Refeulling - YouTube (http://youtu.be/91qt9fXWut4)

[Lyneham Lad]

My one and sadly only flight in a VC10 was in Aug 1968. Paya Lebar to Tehran on a BOAC flight. Second only to Concorde in the 'beauty' stakes.

[1.3VStall]

Does anyone have a definitive date for the last flight of the VC10?

(Does anyone else remember the BOAC advertising poster in the '60s - "Try a little VC10derness"?

[ICM]

There may be a date on close-hold at Brize but, other than hearing that the extensions of service will finally expire in September this year, that's it.

And if you are not familiar with it, that BOAC slogan is commemorated on the homepage of Jelle Hieminga's magisterial website dedicated to the VC 10:

A Little VC10derness (http://www.vc10.net/index.html)

[sharpend]

As this is about memories, I have many, but 3 stand out.

1. Lifting off from a very wet Seattle, under a low grey undercast, breaking through the stratus at about 1000 ft agl into brilliant blue sunshine and there before us was, as far as the eye could see, the snow capped Rockies. Wonderful.

2. Descending down the slopes of the Himalaya into Kathmandu.

3. Flying the IGS into Kai Tak, Hong Kong. That sorted the men from the boys !

Now all I do is fly a puddle-jumper from Kemble to Shobdon! But that is better than pipe & slippers.

[teeteringhead]

(Does anyone else remember the BOAC advertising poster in the '60s - "Try a little VC10derness"? That was - allegedly - another thing the cousins didn't like about the Funbus.

At the time for them VC = Viet Cong! Another triumph of advertising!

[SRENNAPS]

My first VC10 experience was to Singapore on route to Penang in 1968. I was eight year old. First time flying and rather scared. I remember the air stewardess giving me a pile of boiled sweets to cheer me up. Landed at Bahrain (a place that I would eventually come to know like the back of my hand), Gan and finally Changi. On the way back, in 1971, it was Gan and Akrotiri and memories of my 4 year old sister trying to open the cabin door half way across the Indian Ocean; my mother having kittens!!

In 1978 I was posted to BZN and straight into Base Hangar. There was another Sooty by the name of Pete Vickers who was also posted there with me. I do believe that his father was VC10 aircrew. Base Hangar wanted one sooty for VC10s and one for the Andovers down the far end. OC AES immediately said that as his name was Vickers then Pete should get VC10s. I was gutted! But then the OC changed his mind and it was decided on the flip of a coin. Needless to say I won and spent 3 very happy years working on the aircraft as a Sooty.

Top memories were Base 3 air tests with incidents such as seized a tailplane over the Brecon Beacons, complete loss of electrical power following Genny checks and ECU shut down checks (long story), failure of U/C to lower with talk of an unscheduled landing at RAF Manston, a toilet door hurtling down the cabin aisle following a stall check and finally two electricians throwing up after returning from the bay below after doing Genny balance checks.
The other great thing was being allowed to stand on the Flight Deck doing Rollers at various locations. I will bet that is not allowed anymore.

Another favourite memory was doing a ground run over on the tubes. We had a new Sgt Sooty on the Team and as I was doing the ground run my Cpl taught him how to use the radio to contact Brize Ground to obtain permission to start engines. The night before I had had a pretty good night with a new WRAF Painter and Doper. Unfortunately the new Sgt had left the radio lever in transmit and the in depth details of my night with this WRAF was being broadcast all over the airways :rolleyes::rolleyes:

After 3 great years I was posted into the Tornado world where I became just another passenger going on detachment with the Sqn, flying god knows how many times and to some wonderful places around the world. Not quite the same when you are just a passenger but I never lost the thrill of flying on this magnificent aircraft. You will be missed, but thank you for the memories :D:D

P.S. Did several Air to Air Refuel sorties with the Tornados and they were always great fun.

[Motleycallsign]

Many happy memories of paxing/deadheading on the VickersFunbus.

First one in '71 going out to Sharjah; coachdriver unable to find the jet at BZN due to thick fog. It cleared in time for departure. Oft times returning from another FI det '81-'85 on the Asi-Bzn leg.

Shame but like all of us it has aged, somewhat more gracefully than others and is overdue it's pension. I sincerely hope that at least one airframe is kept for posterity.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Two memories of the 10.

Tanking north of the UK pretty low & bumpy under a CB. The VC-10 guys hung in there till we'd got the 3K each we'd asked for before giving us the red, much appreciated. I also liked their willingness to turn upthreat with us plugged in when Magic called inbound contacts.

Deployment on a Sunday for Desert Shield. Two F3 crews arrive hotfoot at Brize in an Andover and are told "that VC10's your ride, you're at the back". We climb the steps to find no crew and the fuselage packed with stores. We crawled to the back between the netting and the roof and find about 8 square feet of floorspace, whence we proceeded to play bridge for 5 hours. When it all stopped moving, we crawled forward (took a while, there was very little space) again finding no crew. Weird experience. I'm not sure the crew even knew we were there.

[Exascot]

Fox3 I presume that you were on a shiny 10. In which case I find this very hard to belive. Even if the muppets had screwed up and not manifested you tbe ALM and Flt Eng would do a walk around even possibly the non operating pilot. 3 chances to spot the stowaways. Did you get on the wrong a/c and were still at Brize wben you got off? The clue would be no brandy sours!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Shiney, yes. It's possible the guy giving us the instructions was the ALM. Didn't ask us for names or anything, but then we were in flying kit, armed and looking dangerous - maybe he didn't want an argument. ;) If not so, then the real ALM would have had to have spent 5 minutes climbing over the stores like we did (or reposition the steps at the back).

Brandy sours? Oh yes! I always remember things before the brandy sours :ok:

[air pig]

Landed at Brize late at night a couple of weeks ago, as part of a civilian aeromedical team, landed and a long taxy to our ramp, but the view of the VC10s under the ballpark lights gleaming in the night was absolutely magical. A sight to be long remembered.

Thanks to the fire and medical crew who assisted with our offload of a very ill patient.

[Wetstart Dryrun]

VC10 to Belize was a forgettable experience. The QTR at Washington Dulles was a race to sink the most US beer -no first prize.

..after a night at Gateway House, Belize seemed quite nice.

regards

wets

[Exascot]

Thank you Fox3 that makes me feel a bit better.

....armed and looking dangerous


Around this time something went horribly wrong, I think I had upset one of my ops staff and ended up on a C130 to Akrotiri. Going through security at Lyenham the buzzer went off. I explained to Cpl Plod that it was probably my shooter in the shoulder holster under my jacket. She said that this was OK then but then insisted that the crew ammo box carried by our ALM was x-rayed :ugh:

I have many stories but unfortunately they can't be published. I agree with Sharpend about Kathmandu and the IGS at Kai Tak. Both of these approaches sorted the men out from the boys. I managed a text book approach and landing onto 13 on one occasion only to worry that we may get killed by a Speedbird that lined up to land on the taxiway we were going back on. :eek:

[OutlawPete]

Thats a great video, love the VC10. Is is just me or does it still look like its just rolled off the production line in that video? The design is beautiful and has a timeless quality to it.

[smujsmith]

My first experience of the majestic Vickers VC10 was on Posting to Akrotiri in 1973. A superb flight and, for a farm lad, something of wonder. I had many more experiences of the "funbus" but my last was being casevaced from the Gulf, in 1991. The crews, the aircraft and everything about every trip I ever had was superb. I was lead to believe that the VC10 was second only in speed to Concorde. With Concorde having retired, is the "10" now the fastest again ?

Smudge

[NutLoose]

Another favourite memory was doing a ground run over on the tubes. We had a new Sgt Sooty on the Team and as I was doing the ground run my Cpl taught him how to use the radio to contact Brize Ground to obtain permission to start engines. The night before I had had a pretty good night with a new WRAF Painter and Doper. Unfortunately the new Sgt had left the radio lever in transmit and the in depth details of my night with this WRAF was being broadcast all over the airways


You had to get permission from Ops for a run, talking to Ground was a courtesy and if you needed fire cover for a high powered run, one run I did I had a rather stroppy and obnoxious women on the other end who was being very very obstructive to me getting on with my run, I told her straight I was talking to her simply as a courtesy, I did not need her permission to run anything as I already had it, I was done talking to her and I was starting up, she was not a happy camper, I could still hear her bleating over the radio as I turned her down :E

Incidentally I found the code book in the line office that was supposed to be for transmitting defects etc over the radio, bay 41 would become bay 9, xw109 would become 12 airframe defect would be code 22 etc.... Had lots of fun and games with that little peach transmitting bingo calls as they frantically tried to decipher them :).


Anyone remember the frozen toilet and the palouste incident?


..

[dragartist]

Have a picture somewhere of one through the hangar doors at Wyton. (We did an avionics upgrade on EWAU- several over the 14 years I was there) Could not get the fin in. Bricks and sticks made a new pair of wooden centre doors with a cut out. also had to put lots of concrete down and steel beams to picket the thing to stop it rocking around in the wind. A big wooden beam was used to prop the aircraft doors shut at cease work as that was a way in to our secure hangar.

I recon we must have been on one of the first flights out of Nairobi in 65 as the Britannia had gone US and had to return shortly after taking off. Also came back from Changi in 70. Had several trips to Dulles and uncomfortable nights in Gateway house.

Does anyone remember the trails that were done in the early 80s on acoustic emissions? listening to cracks growing. I think the computer power and transducer amplifier/filters were a bit early. There was an article in Air Clues I kept for years on the topic. Well that technology was developed for use in submarine pressure vessels. perhaps one good thing that came out of basing Air and Sea people together in DE&S was that we could cross fertilise ideas. The technology had sufficiently matured in 2000 and something but still enormous resistance to adopt same on the air side.

No doubt the VC10 was an icon and ahead of its day.

[NutLoose]

The one RR bent, doing the trials with the RB211, XR809 I think, one of the RR chaps involved told me that after the trails RR wanted to use it again, however due to it bouncing around in the wind the nose had been filled with concrete through the DV window.

Photos: Vickers VC10 C1 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Rolls-Royce/Vickers-VC10-C1/1018815/L/)


..

[SRENNAPS]

You had to get permission from Ops for a run, talking to Ground was a courtesy

Sorry mate, but the way I remember it back in 78-81 you spoke to Brize Ground to be able to move across to the tubes. Once there they then got permission from Ops for you to do the ground run. You (as a bunch of engineers) did not need to go straight to Ops to get permission for a ground run; they had far more important things to look after. One thing you did not do was fall out with any of the controllers as they had the ability to control how long it took you to get back to Base Hangar. Anyway, I found out later in the “Pigs Bar” that they loved our conversation and I could do no wrong after that.
You must have been on LSS……………!!

P.S. RB211 is an engine, RD211 is a freak Robot out of Star Wars:ok::ok:

[NutLoose]

I was, we would call OPS on the landline to let them know, then call them up again as we commenced the run, ground as said was a courtesy, 99% of the runs I carried out would be where ever it sat with no need to move anywhere :ok: about 84-89. Managed to avoid the delights of Base Hangar, even going off the do a JT course I came back onto the same shift, our F/Sgt got me back to Brize and found they were sending me to Base he went and kicked up a fuss and got me back on shift..... Good lad :ok:

We would often do parallel starts on nights so needed the ok for those. BTW we only destroyed one engine on the detuner :p

Corrected my Star Wars blunder :p

[Blanket Stacker]

VC10s were still operating from Lyneham in early 68,albeit positioning from Brize.

On another point BUA trooping flights from Gatwick to Aden went direct; my first posting!

[NutLoose]

If they haven't ripped those God awful wooden built in wardrobes in the singly blocks out, I pulled a draw out and underneath was a copy of the RAF News announcing the VC10 arrival at Brize, we read it in the 80's then I put it back )

[sisemen]

On another point BUA trooping flights from Gatwick to Aden went direct

Depends what the load was. On my trip to Aden we went via Muharraq.

And talking of ground runs for the Funbus.....

It was not very pleasant living in MQ in Hastings Drive and having the mighty beast doing run ups up to midnight on that pan just between Base Hangar and Electronics a mere 500 yards away (it seemed a LOT closer) particularly when one had to work in the morning and two young kids trying to sleep!

[SRENNAPS]

I pulled a draw out and underneath was a copy of the RAF News announcing the VC10 arrival at Brize, we read it in the 80's then I put it back )

Bet you wished you had kept it now to be able to scan and post it on this thread :ok::ok:

[NutLoose]

Yep sigh, even then it was a rare survivor, I still have a couple of Gateway mags from Gorbies visit etc and 10 Sqns anniversary.

[Davita]

I just remembered something about 10Sqn RAF. I was on the fleet when they promoted all VC10 Captains to acting Sqn. Ldrs. ......well, those who were not S/Ls already.
It created a lot of controversy and some humour at the time...does anyone know if that continued?

I was on a flight once with one of our newly badged Captains and the AOC of Transport Comm....correction...Air Support Command, sat in the jump seat.
He commented on this policy and asked our opinion. Our Nav was a S/L and I (F/E) was a F/L
Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

I turned the cockpit temperature down a notch as it seemed to get quite hot!!!:E

[Union Jack]

I just remembered something about 10Sqn RAF. I was on the fleet when they promoted all VC10 Captains to acting Sqn. Ldrs. ......well, those who were not S/Ls already.
It created a lot of controversy and some humour at the time...does anyone know if that continued?

BEagle!?:)

Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

Freudian slip? :hmm:

Jack

[NutLoose]

I think it ceased when the last civilian VC10's were purchased by the RAF.
Didn't the AOC know he was called AL? :ok:

[ICM]

I believe I'm right in saying that the Acting Sqn Ldr business was stopped in 1980.

At this distance, it may just be worth recalling that it was simply one outcome of an AFB decision in 1968, driven by a concern at the time over retention and undermanning. More Sqn Ldr flight commander posts were created on squadrons, and Acting Sqn Ldr also applied to Captains in the Comet fleet - the latter perhaps largely forgotten as the numbers concerned were small and the force was withdrawn from service after the mid-70s Defence Review. But there's no denying that the policy was most visible for some years in the left-hand seats of the VC 10.

[bingofuel]

Was the third ring on the epaulette not called the "ring of confidence" with regard to 10 sqn Captains ?

[Davita]

QUOTES
Our Captain (I'll call him Al) said it was correct and proper as he was the commander. He then suggested that we should wear wings on our KD uniform so everyone would know he was the Captain.
The AOC smiled and then said "Well, Jim....If others don't respect you as Captain maybe you shouldn't be one!" as he gave me a dig in the ribs.

Freudian slip? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif

Didn't the AOC know he was called AL? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif
Unqoute.

They knew each other well...the name change was in context to the conversation....Freudian perhaps but no slip....intended indeed!

Do RAF aircrew now have wings/brevets on KD uniform or shirts? I see they do on those blue jump suits originally stolen (sorry, borrowed) from the USAF and that is what is worn when flying but, in those days, we wore collar and tie and shiny shoes, unless destined for the tropics. There our uniforms became a mixed bag of KD usually made by any tailor in Changi village/Kowloon and coupled them with desert (chukka) boots.
Not very uniform at all.:sad:

[Dan Gerous]

Link showing VC10 doing touch and goes at Prestwick on Thursday. The refuelling pods are off the wings, but were on, on Tuesday, when it flew over Cosford

FighterControl ? Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast ? View topic - VC10 XR808 At Prestwick 11/07/13 (http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=83068)

[Davita]

I cannot recall that the RAF purchased any civilian VC10's. I flew on the very first RAF VC10 that came from Vickers (BAC) and it was purposefully built for the RAF. The original contract for VC10's did not have any military connection but when that contract 'expired' the RAF tasked the manufacturer to a military requirement...no civilian conversion, to my knowledge, took place.
I did ground training and flight simulator at Cranebank on the BOAC Super VC10 but then had to do the conversion to the RAF model. It was very different.

An aside story was when I was on an RAF team assigned to write the VC10 'landing on water' checklist, or something like that. The team chairman was a seconded USAF pilot (Major Massingham). His previous experience was useful until he introduced the idea of using the fire axe to stab the wing and tie a safety line to assist overwing exodus. I jokingly bet him US$100 to make the attempt. He declined when I reminded him of our visit to Weybridge where we saw them mill the VC10 structure wing out of solid aluminium (he called it aluminum); it was unlike all other aircraft structures we had previously experienced, which use sheet panels rivetted to ribs.

Thanks to Dan Gerous for those memorable pictures....I lost all my logbooks to white ants but must have flown many hours on 808 as an F/E. The only momento I have today is the picture of XV104 presented to me when I left 241 OCU at Brize Norton. XV104 was used primarily for the conversion to VIP role in those days.
So thanks again for those memories.

[Nugget90]

Davita's comment regarding the photograph of XV 104 reminds me of the one I was given when I left 10 Sqn.

If his is the same as mine, then I can add that I was the co-pilot in XV 104 on 11 April 1972 when we were photographed flying over the Scilly Isles whilst formating with a Hercules that contained a Service photographer. Sqn Ldr Ward was the captain and we were airborne for 4 hours.

[peppermint_jam]

Many happy memories of the funbus as it was usually my ticket home from somewhere sandy. Apart from when it left us in Akrotiri with 3 dead GR4's. needed some new t-shirts anyway......

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f372/robstuff/pic.jpg

Will see what other photos I can dig up.

[ICM]

Davita: Just a small name correction - your USAF pilot would have been Major Bobby Massingill, the first USAF exchange Captain in the VC 10 years. You may recognise him from this:

http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc463/Old141Nav/file-2.jpg

He was later my Boss when I did part of my own exchange tour at Travis on the Wing staff in the early 70s, and the connection continued in a way when I arrived at Brize for my VC 10 course. Major Jerry Poole was there to take up the pilot exchange slot on 10 Sqn - and Jerry had been in the same Wing office with me.

[Davita]

Quote.... I was lead to believe that the VC10 was second only in speed to Concorde. With Concorde having retired, is the "10" now the fastest again ?
Smudge....Unqoute.

I remember that the RAF VC10 originally had three speeds depending on range required...I recall Mach O.88 or 0.86 or 0.84 and the VNE was 0.94.
The airline I joined had Convair 880's and I was told the 990 model cruised around Mach 0.9.
I later flew on B707/320C at only M 0.78 but that was around the time oil prices shot up and reduced cruise speed became the norm.

My other recollection was the VC10 speed had to be closely monitored as its Hi-Tail had the tendecy to Dutch Roll at altitude. I think it had 3 separate Yaw Dampers as this could be critical. There was also a concern for the very close margin between hi and lo-speed stall. It also had auto-relight in case the rear engines became air-blocked and stalled.

Anyone else have better info on this speed concern at altitude?

EDIT
Thanks for the correction ICM...That is indeed the gentleman although I think the pic must have been taken a little bit before I met him. Also, I heard that he was murdered by a mugger when back in California...hope I'm wrong.

Was Jerry Poole a tall lanky guy who became the local Carterton darts champion?

[BEagle]

I remember that the RAF VC10 originally had three speeds depending on range required...I recall Mach O.88 or 0.86 or 0.84 and the VNE was 0.94.
The airline I joined had Convair 880's and I was told the 990 model cruised around Mach 0.9.

I later flew on B707/320C at only M 0.78 but that was around the time oil prices shot up and reduced cruise speed became the norm.

My other recollection was the VC10 speed had to be closely monitored as its Hi-Tail had the tendecy to Dutch Roll at altitude. I think it had 3 separate Yaw Dampers as this could be critical. There was also a concern for the very close margin between hi and lo-speed stall. It also had auto-relight in case the rear engines became air-blocked and stalled.

1. A cruise IMN of M0.88 was quite possible, but used HUGE amounts of fuel.
2. The VC10 had 3 yaw dampers, but normally only 2 were used; in any case, Dutch Roll (a consequence of high sweepback, dhedral effect and fin area) was easily contained by 1 yaw damper. There was no requirement to remain alert for the onset of Dutch Roll.
3. The VC10 used to be certified to fly at weights/heights where there was a mere ±10 knot margin from the high and low +1.2G buffet onset speeds. In later years, a more prudent +1.35G was used rather than +1.2G.
4. Auto-ignition was triggered by an AoA probe and was the first indication of excessively low speed.

The Convair Coronado was quicker (just), but I don't think that it ever flew on transatlantic schedules.

Of the RAF's VC10 fleet, 14 aircraft were ex-civil. 5 from BOAC, 4 from EAAC and 4 from ba.

[NutLoose]

I cannot recall that the RAF purchased any civilian VC10's. I flew on the very first RAF VC10 that came from Vickers (BAC) and it was purposefully built for the RAF. The original contract for VC10's did not have any military connection but when that contract 'expired' the RAF tasked the manufacturer to a military requirement...no civilian conversion, to my knowledge, took place.

The tanker fleet of K3 and 4 were all ex civilian BA and East African Airways VC10's dragged out of storage at Abingdon. Having been a regular visitor to rob bits off them one was suprised when they flew out, spares having became an issue when the VC10 stores depot had the fire.

VC10s in storage (http://www.vc10.net/Photos/vc10s_in_storage.html)

The best of all of them was the Gulf Air one parked at Brize, it was slowly gutted, I think there were issues with paperwork being missing so it never flew again... She was finally moved, jacked and her gear removed, then lowered onto her belly near the dog section if memory serves me correctly, they then decided it was in the wrong place and needed to move a bit, so she was jacked up, a full set of gear fitted then she was trundled over a bit before being jacked, the gear removed and dropped again....
We went to remove a few bits and I noticed she still had the engine fire bottles fitted with carts, so I removed the bottles and returned them through stores, I bet that caused some Stores bod some paperwork head aches..

[ICM]

Davita: I was exchanging Christmas cards with Bobby M for a number of years post-Travis, and I'm happy to say that a bit of Googling suggests that a gent going by his name is still alive in a town close to the base. So, hopefully, not murdered. And whilst Jerry Poole was certainly quite tall, I've no recollection of his being any kind of darts whiz, even at Carterton local level!

And BEagle is quite right, data for IMN.088 was in the ODM Vol II and would incur very heavy fuel use. I don't recall ever using those pages.

[Davita]

Thanks for the update to the RAF buying those ex-commercial A/C as tankers. I was unaware of that as it was well after my time so my post referred to the original ones which, although they had a refuel receiver capability, I don't think anyone had, at that time, considered using the VC10 as a tanker.
I recall we did attach the probe to one A/C and did try receiving from a V-bomber but there seemed to be a lot of buffeting. However, the in-flight refuel system did make the fuel system management more flexible than any other A/C I've been on as an F/E.

Thanks IMC.... that is good news about B.M. I'm scratching my head to remember what I heard, and it may be that he was mugged and I think stabbed, but my memory of him dying was fortunately untrue.
Did Jerry Poole replace BM or was that another USAF exchange officer? He was the great darts player, which we considered amusing, as darts is such a British game.

[SRENNAPS]

I remember being taken round the East African VC10s (88-91 time I think) when they were being converted at Filton. An ex Flt Sgt from Base hangar by the name of Al Shrewsbury was working there as a civvie and I was based at RR on the Eurofighter Team. Because I knew Al from Brize he showed us things on those 10s that would make your eyes water. For example the corrosion to the main ECU spas, (which you could see when you opened the back panel of the rear toilets was unbelievable). It was like a peeled onion.
At the time we all agreed that they would never fly again and if they did it would only be for a few hours.
How wrong we were!!

[BEagle]

I remember being taken round the East African VC10s (88-91 time I think) when they were being converted at Filton.

All 4 ex-EAAC aircraft were delivered to 101 Sqn in 1985 as VC10K3s.

Perhaps you were referring to the ex-ba Super VC10s which had been in storage at RAF Abingdon for many years?

[SRENNAPS]

Hi BEagle,

Many thanks for the correction. I must admit that it was a long time ago and my memories are pretty vague. I do seem to remember the 10s I saw had something like3 or 4 times the airframe hours on them in comparison to the 10 Sqn jets. Can you confirm if this is true or is this something else that I have distorted with time!!

[Nomorefreetime]

VC5 XX914 was aslo retired from Brize a few months ago.

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

This made me chuckle when I first the read the obituary some years back:

Major-General Philip Tower, who as died aged 89, was GOC Middle East Land Forces in 1967 and supervised the withdrawal of British troops from Aden.


In 1963 the sheikhdoms of the Aden Protectorates were merged with the British colony of Aden to form the Federation of South Arabia. The following year Britain announced that the Federation would be granted Independence by 1968 but British forces would remain in Aden.


In 1964 Arab nationalists formed the National Liberal Front (NLF) and began an urban terrorist campaign in Aden. They were joined by a second group, the Front for the Liberation of Occupied Yemen. In 1966 the British government agreed to withdraw all the troops by Independence.


A mutiny in the South Arabian Army in June 1967 spread to the Aden Armed Police. The insurgents fired on a group of soldiers entering Crater on reconnaissance, killing all of them. British forces were withdrawn and the township was taken over by the terrorist NLF.



After the Aden theatre was declared to be active service, Tower reminded the soldiers, not all of whom shared his enthusiasm, that the chances of being awarded a medal had greatly increased — they might get a mention in dispatches, an MM or even a VC. This prompted a shout from the ranks of: "The only VC I want to see is a VC-10!"

(The rest of the obit is on the Telegraph website if anyone wants to see the rest.)

[Tom Bell-Weed]

I had many happy days deploying, or being trailed, to 4 continents in or behind these characterful and graceful aircraft. My abiding memory, though, is the perseverance of their crews, especially in the face of technical difficulties. They would work through almost any problem to ensure they landed somewhere either hot/exotic/good for rates. Always remarkably serviceable when getting out of places such as MPA of the Gulf, though......;)

Tom

[haltonapp]

Saw one in the Brize circuit today with no pods or pylons fitted, why is that? Can't have much of role without those bits hanging off the wings!

[Blacksheep]

the 10s I saw had something like3 or 4 times the airframe hours on them in comparison to the 10 Sqn jets. Sounds about right.

Over in Borneo in 1985 I was chatting with the Crew Chief of a (then 20 year old) RAF VC10 that was passing through. He said the aircraft was getting old and now had 18,000 hours on it. I pointed out that our 6 year old B737 on the next stand had 12,000 hours on it already.

Where I'm sitting right now, our 26 year old B757s have between 87,000 and 93,000 hours on them. Around 3-4,000 hours a year would be typical for a civilian long-haul jet.

[NutLoose]

Might have been lower hours but had some serious landings on them, while the Airline versions used to climb up to xyz feet and cruise for six hours plus, the RAF used to stick 70 odd K of fuel in them and do circuits and bumps all day, day in day out...

[BEagle]

Saw one in the Brize circuit today with no pods or pylons fitted, why is that? Can't have much of role without those bits hanging off the wings!

XR808 on her way to RAFM Cosford?

[haltonapp]

Can't be many left now! I shall miss the roar of four conways in close formation! Noisy they may be but at least they don't drone on and on like the C130's do!

[BEagle]

Just 3 x VC10K3.....147, 148 & 150.

I wonder what'll happen if there's a 2R 'event' after 20 Sep 13?????

[MrBernoulli]

I wonder what'll happen if there's a 2R 'event' after 20 Sep 13?????
What is a 2R event, BEagle? :E

[melmothtw]

Quote:
I wonder what'll happen if there's a 2R 'event' after 20 Sep 13?????
What is a 2R event, BEagle? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif


The 2R hypothesis or Ohno's hypothesis, first proposed by Susumu Ohno (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susumu_Ohno) in 1970,[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2R_hypothesis#cite_note-Ohno70-1) is a hypothesis in genomics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genomics) and molecular evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_evolution) suggesting that the genomes of the early vertebrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebrate) lineage underwent two complete genome duplications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genome_duplication), and thus modern vertebrate genomes reflect paleopolyploidy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleopolyploidy).

- Google is not always your friend, ahem.

[BEagle]

You know very well, MrB!!

Remember that famous trollop 'Anita Noprinciples'...:E

[Old Speckled Aircrew]

Well BEages you've stated something now, there's sure to be a few SNIFFING for an answer.

[Liffy 1M]

The best of all of them was the Gulf Air one parked at Brize, it was slowly gutted, I think there were issues with paperwork being missing so it never flew again... She was finally moved, jacked and her gear removed, then lowered onto her belly near the dog section if memory serves me correctly, they then decided it was in the wrong place and needed to move a bit, so she was jacked up, a full set of gear fitted then she was trundled over a bit before being jacked, the gear removed and dropped again....

Here it is in September 1991.

http://u1.ipernity.com/27/70/91/17237091.75d47ef4.500.jpg?r1 (http://www.ipernity.com/doc/300619/17237091)
ZD493 (G-ARVJ) V.1101 VC10 (http://www.ipernity.com/doc/300619/17237091) by Irish 251 (http://www.ipernity.com/home/300619), on ipernity

[1.3VStall]

Beags, just out of interest, do you know what the tail letters codes are for those last three KMk3s?

[BEagle]

ZA147 - F (ex 5H-MMT)
ZA148 - G (ex 5H-ADA)
ZA150 - J (ex 5H-MOG)

[NutLoose]

And ZA150 had the extra 68psi switch in the cabin pressurisation ducting :ok:

[1.3VStall]

Thanks Beags, diverted to Bermuda on "Freddie" many moons ago. Happy memories!

[Exascot]

Nothing to do with the 'Queen of the Skies' directly but more about the tasking. I don't believe anyone has mentioned the Washington DC slip. Sunday champagne brunch etc. How many champagne brunch establishments were there? How many were we barred from? The fishbowls of beer down in Alexandria. I forget how many you had to drink before you got to keep the glass but I don't believe that anyone managed to get the glass back to the hotel in one piece. One of these days I will go back to the Air and Space museum and try to look around it without a hangover. :O

[1.3VStall]

Fort Myer was always good for a champagne brunch (in the O Club), but so were many other establishments down in Georgetown.:O

[SRENNAPS]

Watched the VC10 arrive for RIAT 2013 yesterday. That may well be the last time I ever see her fly :{

I must admit that I am very surprised that there is no actual flying display of her during the show. I think it would have been a fitting tribute :confused:

[1.3VStall]

What is the latest out-of-service date?

[Krueger Flap]

End of Sep 13

[1.3VStall]

Thanks KF, I hope there is something significant planned to mark the event, the old girl has been in RAF service for nearly 50 years!

[NutLoose]

And to put 50 years of service into context, the RAF Ten is an ageless classic, this was it's contemporary

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/30/Green_co.jpg/320px-Green_co.jpg

[jack schidt]

I have a picture of the first flight of the VC10, my grandfather was working at the airfield factory at the time, I am not sure if he is in the picture to be honest. The picture is showing the aircraft just after rotation and all the factory workers standing alongside the runway. I will be away the next few days, I will try to get a picture of it uploaded and put on here over the next week.

I am not sure, but I think this is the first Super VC10 flight as opposed to the Standard VC10s.

As a very young child I went to Weybridege with my grandfather and watched the cranes in the hangers and aircraft production in the late 60s, we also went to Wisley. It was this that partly inspired me into aviation and I did fly the VC10 later in my life. As a tribute to the many hours spent at LHR with my grandad on some Saturdays I now smile every time I land in LHR and wonder what it would have been like back in the 60s in the VC10, the halcyon days some would say.

Edit: I just went to look at the photo, it's an A5 photo and the registration is G-ASGA

[Exascot]

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/4/3/1811348.jpg

[sisemen]

End of Sep 13

What sweet irony.

I was a 50th Entry brat and we became senior entry in September 64. Those ex-brats amongst us will remember that the senior entry went bananas on that day/night.

As part of our celebrations I had made a flag/poster out of a sheet exclaiming "Great things British". Obviously the 50th took pride of place but one of my examples was a drawing of an RAF VC 10 - then just about to come into service.

We have our 50th reunion in a few weeks time, September 2013. As I am travelling from Oz for the event hopefully I will catch a sight of one of the last flights from Brize as I pass by.

[Brian 48nav]

I had a very pleasant meal with a new mate yesterday and he said he is going to attend the 50th anniversary reunion of 50th Entry Cosford soon. Is that the same course as you?

[sisemen]

Nope. Ours is the clk secs from Hereford.

[Flying Lawyer]

I hope there is something significant planned to mark the event101 Squadron will parade at Brize on 18 September to mark the end of VC10 ops, and the consecration of a new Squadron Standard.


FL

[Oldsarbouy]

Morayvia should be in a position to start selling the limited edition VC10 commemorative malt at the end of the month, please pm me for further details and orders. RAFBF a major beneficiary. :ok:

[Art Field]

Whilst a parade to mark the final {?} demise of the VC10 is entirely right and proper, to deny the Fun Bus an airborne farewell on the fateful day after it has served us so well would be a sad way to honor an old friend, I hope it will be included in the program.

[haltonapp]

I wonder why they started the registrations XR then went to XV?

[NutLoose]

Quote:
I hope there is something significant planned to mark the event



101 Squadron will parade at Brize on 18 September to mark the end of VC10 ops, and the consecration of a new Squadron Standard.

FL



Rather a let down that one, more of a punishment getting lumbered on that than a good old blow out to send her on her way.....

Hardly the same quality that the demise of the Jaguar managed to produce for all those ex and current members to savour..

[BEagle]

Hardly the same quality that the demise of the Jaguar managed to produce for all those ex and current members to savour..

A Black Tie 'End of an Era' dinner has indeed been arranged. Regrettably not in the OM though, due to civvie contractors' attitudes and price demands, I gather....:(

It will mark the end of 47 years of RAF VC10 operations.

To participate in a parade held on the occasion of the consecration of a new Squadron Standard is an honour, hardly a punishment....:=

[NutLoose]

Well all the Squadrons I was involved in with standards being laid up etc, believe me the troops did the best they could to avoid them.

[Flying Lawyer]

Visiting 101 Squadron at Brize a few weeks ago.

VC10
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/P6111215_zps9e113392.jpg

TriStar
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/P6111171_zps1f17d386.jpg

Typhoon
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/29sqntyph_zps8033b808.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/P6111103_zps5b7495f8.jpg
Some of you might recognise the old gent in the middle.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/9d37ed75-a73b-4885-9277-b645ffae8adc_zps1728c8a3.jpg
I remember him when he had hair.



101 Squadron is an affiliated unit of the Guild of Air Pilots and Air Navigators (http://www.gapan.org).

FL

[haltonapp]

Those pictures inside are not a VC10!

[Flying Lawyer]

haltonapp Those pictures inside are not a VC10!


You should inform the RAF immediately!
They were obviously conned.


Maybe they can get their money back?
Perhaps a task for the new CAS who'll be in post this week.


FL

[sisemen]

Can't possibly be a VC10.

The people sitting in the front seats are wearing green onesies rather than blues and a tie.

They're flt lts and not sqn ldrs

and....(gasp)...they've let one of the air stewardesses sit in the RHS :E

[John Eacott]

My ATC Squadron visited Weybridge sometime in the early 60's to be shown the VC10 production hangar. A few things stuck in my mind; the tail span was the same as the Scimitar main wing span, the milling of the skins for the wings was cutting edge technology for the day and down the far end of the hangar was an area hidden from prying Cadet eyes with canvas screens.

TSR2 being put together 'in secret' :cool:

[haltonapp]

Well the windows are wrong, there are not enough in the flight deck picture, the instrument panel and coming is wrong, there are too many seats down the back. The VC10 did not have so many vortex generators on the wing!!!

[NutLoose]

the milling of the skins for the wings was cutting edge technology for the day

Ahh yes, they found a crack on a wing in Hong Kong that was leaking go juice, the crew taking the decision without any engineering backup to fly it back to the UK and then report it, the way the skins were produced it could have run like a zip opening, luckily it didn't.

..

[NutLoose]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/P6111103_zps5b7495f8.jpg

"Sorry to bother you guys, the GPS has gone down and the cockpit crew were wondering if you could read this thing and tell us where we are"..


:E

[melmothtw]

Well the windows are wrong, there are not enough in the flight deck picture, the instrument panel and coming is wrong, there are too many seats down the back. The VC10 did not have so many vortex generators on the wing!!!


You're not wrong haltonapp. The cockpit shot is taken from a TriStar, and the main cabin of a VC10 can only fit 6 seats line abreast (plus the aisle). Can't comment on the wing vortex generators, but does beg the question as to what Flyinglawyer is up to trying to pass his pics off as a VC10...

[CoffmanStarter]

Glad to see the front office staff are now issued with quality kit ... Sennheiser Headsets :ok:

Giant leap forward from the old Clement Clark Airlite coat-hanger kit ...

[Flying Lawyer]

haltonapp

Of course the interior shots are not of a VC10.
When I responded last night I was pulling your leg because you stated the obvious in a Mil aircrew forum - complete with exclamation!

We were meant to fly in a Voyager but, when that turned out to be impossible, our (always excellent) 101 Squadron host found us a TriStar flight.

I posted the cabin shots because they include a very well-known contributor to this forum.

FL

(Edit)
Original post now changed to specify aircraft types.

VC10 flight with 101 Sqn 2007
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb204/BrizeNorton/DSCF0195.jpg

[1.3VStall]

Who has got any details on the "End of Era Dinner"?

[skua]

Is that a hunting horn I hear in the background???

[Roland Pulfrew]

Who has got any details on the "End of Era Dinner"?

OC 101, but from what I understand its fully subscribed and with quite a big reserve list.

[NutLoose]

And that in itself should tell you something..... No doubt it's not all ranks either.

[vascodegama]

Yes it is as said above it is a full list with a reserve

[haltonapp]

Don't want to boast, but I have got a ticket!!!

[Capt Chambo]

Excuse me intruding on a Military Aircrew forum..

ZA147 - F (ex 5H-MMT)

In East African Airways 5H-MMT was known as "Mingi Mingi Trouble"

Mingi being Kiswahili for much or many!

(My Old Man used to fly for EAA)

[SRENNAPS]

Ahh yes, they found a crack on a wing in Hong Kong that was leaking go juice, the crew taking the decision without any engineering backup to fly it back to the UK and then report it, the way the skins were produced it could have run like a zip opening, luckily it didn't.


Well if the Line Sqn Engineers had have been there they could have “stop drilled” it :E:E:E:E

I take it, Nutloose you did not spend too much time working "in the wing" fixing fuel tank leaks :8:ok:

[BEagle]

Some of you might recognise the old gent in the middle.


Who is doubtless explaining that old-fashioned bits of paper, such as that DOT sheet, are superfluous in modern tankers with well-designed, fully-functioning AAR mission planning and management systems....

Such as the A310MRTT / CC-150T Polaris.

But not the Voyager, whose MPS still doesn't work, I gather....:uhoh: Weird that - Airbus have had a perfectly good system in their A310 for many years now, but the Spanish are trying to re-invent the wheel. By making it square...

Hecho en España = No funciona!

It was indeed a good visit - excellent brief in the OM, trip in a TriShaw, then a look around both a VC10K and a Voyager. A pity that we didn't fly in the Voyager, which was delayed on an inbound trip, but our excellent host managed to come up with a good alternative.

See you at the dinner, haltonapp!

Nice interior shot of that VC10C1K, FL - strange to have been climbing in MAN mode with the turn control displaced like that though.....:confused:

31 Mar 2020 - and Voyager STILL doesn't have a functioning Mission Planning System which works!

[NutLoose]

I take it, Nutloose you did not spend too much time working "in the wing" fixing fuel tank leaks

Yep we did, though it was never totally empty when we were working in them.

[SRENNAPS]

though it was never totally empty when we were working in them.

Yes! that was always good fun :ok:

Only the Base 3 aircraft had dry tanks. Base 1 and 2 aircraft remained wet. When working in a wet tank we employed health and safety religiously :E This entailed wearing a rope tied round your waste and then crawling into the depths of where you thought the problem might have been (that could involve moving around corners and climbing over baffles, through quite deep puddles of fuel). The other end of the rope was held by your safety man sat on top of the wing by the tank access hole. A tug on the rope now and again assured him that you were doing ok. No mask or goggles were available :eek:

On the other hand, with the Base 3 aircraft completely dry and purged of fumes it was not uncommon for the entire AES junior sooty team being caught playing cards in the VC10 centre fuselage tank :)

Another interesting working practice in those days that either went well or you got incredibly wet was to change a water drain valve on a tank that was full of fuel. It called for slick arm movement and accurate insertion skills. It was either :D or :mad:

Finally, I would like to say that I do not endorse these working practices that were “unofficially” acceptable at the time; I just did what my Cpl told me to do :O:O

[BEagle]

I just did what my Cpl told me to do....

Like most Germans did in the early 1940s......:\

[teeteringhead]

... or known in the trade as "The Nuremberg Defence" ;)

[Krystal n chips]

My abiding memory of the VC10 was the first flight in the beast as an apprentice when we had a day out to Brize.

We had a nice briefing from a u/t Loadmistress who, bless her, stressed that if we felt unwell, this was understandable and could we please use the bags provided....we take off, head towards S.Wales, then return to Brize.

The crew were very amiable and tried to get as many of us in the cockpit as possible to watch the proceedings which was appreciated by most of us..:ok:

On our return we alternated between a series of controlled thuds into the Brize runway, about ten I seem to recall, and another six overshoots.

At some point during the thuds, there came a gentle :yuk: sound from the front....and 30 apprentice heads turned to see, and hear, the Loadie performing as the smilie suggests......the collective..."aaaaaaaawh" ...and subsequent clapping and cheering probably did little to improve her morale....not helped by the other Loadie asking, in a rather loud voice, if the bag was full yet and would she like another?.

[NutLoose]

Another interesting working practice in those days that either went well or you got incredibly wet was to change a water drain valve on a tank that was full of fuel. It called for slick arm movement and accurate insertion skills. It was either :D or http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/censored.gif


We had a guy on shift ( DG) changed a booster pump on two tank I think whilst standing on an A frame steps, he closed off the isolation valve, got as little fuel out of the drain so undid the screws to drop the pump (Tank was full) three of us Sooties had gone out to do it and he had volunteered to put on the rubber suit and do it...
Anyway I digress, he pulls the last screw out and the pump drops down, luckily he catches it before it came out too far and is instantly coned in a high pressure Avtur shower of some force... push it back in we all shout.....
I can't, and I can't hold it ...help....heeeelp... comes the reply... thoughts of getting wet flash through our minds and in unison we all shout PUSH..

Gawd knows how he did it as the tank was full, but he got the pump back up in the hole while one of us rushed in picked up the dropped tools and screws and managed to screw it back home... needless to say attempt 2 involved a defuel :)

[Motleycallsign]

It wasn't the fin tank was it Nutloose?

[haltonapp]

No pump in Fin tank!

[Motleycallsign]

So that wasn't the one that sat on it's tail then!!!!

[NutLoose]

Had to help a RAF Plod doing a security walkround for a Royal Flight, opening panels etc, so he could peer in at all the gubbins looking for a round black ball marked bomb with a slowburn lit fuse coming out the top...

Stepping back he spies the tank access panels three quarters of the way up the port fin and announces he wishes to look in there, pointing out that no self respecting terrorist is going to bring his own hydraulic platform, defuel the tank, spend an hour plus removing the screws, plant his bomb, reseal and repanel the tank, then refuel it and slink off into the night, I then told him if he wished to peer in there then he is on his own..... ahhh what about that one he says pointing to a easy ground level access door and on we moved.... :E


..

[cuefaye]

One flew into BAES Warton today. I held up a little traffic watching the approach - which he screwed up a little. Great sighting - talk of the pub!

[SRENNAPS]

Not an ego trip, but I would like to keep this VC10 thread on the first page (and preferably near the top) of Military Aircrew until the old girl totally retires; sadly in the very near future. I think it is the least that could be done in honour of such a beautiful aircraft that has probably touched just about every serving member of the Royal Air Force, Army and Navy (when they chose to travel in luxury) since 1966.
I have a million more stories I could tell, so I am sure there are many more from others.

[NutLoose]

Well said, from helicopters to fighters to the VC10, one felt one had come home and reached the pinnacle of ones career, from any angle she just looks right and has that ageless quality and beauty few icons fail to reach..

[smujsmith]

Spanners,

Having never served on the glorious "guzzomie" bird, I can not agree more. The VC10 must be the epitome of British aircraft production. Every flight I was treated to was a delight, including my casevac in 1991 from GW1. I would have loved to have the opportunity to spend some of my service looking after the aircraft. As an ex C130 GE I was lucky to work with fellow VC10 GEs on many operations. All had the same attitude as we did, and, despite contrary rumours, I never heard of problems between planes !!!! One of the best nights out, down route, I ever had, was in a hotel, off base Macdill AFB, when my whole crew decided to stay in the hotel bar. The VC10 crew, co located, were happy to take on the stray GE and off we went. Great night, great crew great memories. You're right, keep the thread on page one, hope this helps.

Smudge:ok:

[NutLoose]

Hearing XR808 went into Brunty today, I thought she was being saved for Cosford? She was the most historic of the lot.. Tell me she's not for the chop :ugh:

News (http://www.vc10.net/news.html)


Seems our heritage is getting sold down the swanny, I cannot fathom why an airframe couldn't have been donated to the Moravia museum in Scotland, short term gains in cash, must surely be outweighed by the tourism and possible employment opportunities it could have provided.....

..

[Roland Pulfrew]

I cannot fathom why an airframe couldn't have been donated to the Moravia museum in Scotland, short term gains in cash, must surely be outweighed buy the tourism and possible employment opportunities it could have provided....

Sadly because the f***ing bean counters are involved! We can "gift" millions of £s worth of kit to the Afghans, we can "gift" millions of £s worth of armoured vehicle and non-offensive kit to a bunch of Syrian (et al) terrorists, but we can't gift £10000 worth of VC10 to a British museum. No we would be happier seeing them turned into scrap metal for the return of a few measly pounds! Utterly, utterly ridiculous!! :ugh:

[sisemen]

This...http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/520125-cojones-needed-cas-3.html.... might give some background Nutloose as well as a similar thread on History and Nostalgia.

Hopefully they will be taking the hard route of dismantling the airframe, trucking it over to Cosford and then reassembling it :\

[Oldsarbouy]

As I said on another forum I would put money on 808 staying at Bruntingthorpe and doing fast taxy runs as well as being used for corporate events as has already happened with 241 and very successfully. At least the sound of the might Conways would still be heard although, unfortunately not at full military power!
Morayvia staged a valiant attempt to purchase 241 and its small membership of volunteers raised a considerable sum but unfortunately not enough. Given more time maybe the balance could have been raised from the wider aviation audience but there is yet a chance that a portion of 241 could be purchased and mounted on a trailer like the Nimrod. Morayvia are hoping that continued sales of its VC10 Malt, which will soon be available for despatch, will add to the coffers as well as a considerable donation to the RAFBF. Feel free to PM me for details.;)
As an aside, 808 is the airframe that I thought I had wrecked in Akrotiri some years ago when, being a knowall, I opened the freight door without removing the section of hat rack that bridged the gap with the result that it ended up fairly well mangled. Blows with a hide-faced mallet made it semi fit for purpose until the time came to close the door at which point one of the red warning lights remained red indicating that one of the hooks on the bottom of the door wasn't closing fully. Numerous attempts made opening and closing the door with the same result and crew duty time running out fast. Decision made to night stop, disperse the pax to hotels and crew off to transit. Techies worked into the night accompanied by embarrassed Loadie who was convinced he had done the damage all by himself but seen by new squadron boss as hands on good chap.
Morning came and pax arrived back at the terminal but the problem was still there. Numerous attempts made, still one red light. Advice from on high was to tow the aircraft round the pan, that didn't work, next advice get everyone out on the port wing and try to close the door again. Still no luck but great entertainment for the watching future pax! Brize eventually found that 808 had past door problems and adjusting the fuel load should clear the problem which it did much to the relief of myself! 808 bless her and may she have a long retirement.

[NutLoose]

If I remember rightly you couldn't put over 100K onboard with the door open as the thing used to twist a bit not allowing it to close, I did one refuel and unbeknown to me they opened the door, I had to offload about 60K so they could shut the door before uplifting it again..

[CoffmanStarter]

Sad Day ... :(

The last Vickers VC10 C1K (XR808) was delivered to Bruntingthorpe today, 29th July 2013, by 101 Squadron, RAF Brize Norton and into retirement.

RAF VC10 Retires (http://www.raf.mod.uk/news/archive/vc10-c1k-retires-30072013)

http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafiles/DC81A616_5056_A318_A81913BA72FB3706.jpg

Coff.

[NutLoose]

The real Tragedy is in the fact it went to Bruntingthorpe,
I take it this now means the Airframe there that was originally planned to join the collection will be scrapped. So not only have the RAF Museum lost out on a VC10, but it also means the two planned surviving RAF VC10's will be reduced to a sole example. Shame they couldn't go tech with one of the survivors at Kinloss thus ensuring it ended up at Moravia permanently..

When you think of the Grimrods scattered about the Country a lone Ten is a crime...

[SRENNAPS]

I am on the road with no internet access for 18 hrs (night stop included) travelling to York on a camping trip and I get here and find this thread on page 2!!!! Thanks to all that have tried to keep it on top, shame on you that cant be bothered.

Just goes to prove that Military PPruNe is full of people that really dont……… and have probably never flown on a VC10 :E

The VC10 is as great an aircraft (in the Royal Air Force) as the Vulcan, Different role and not as glamorous but an aircraft that has touched the heart of thousands of lives. Make it a sticky or comment to keep it on top till the old girl retires in glory. It is not a lot to ask :D:ok::O

[NutLoose]

Sorry :(

Ex LSS A shift.
....

[NutLoose]

Will have to go visit Brunty to see her again...


An unashamed bump..

[Always a Sapper]

One might have hoped the local MP could have shown an interest and had some influence.......That said, maybe he did and this is the result!


Thinking about it, could it have been passed off as 'high jinks' if some enterprising folks had hooked up a tug on it and managed to drag it out the crash gate, leaving it parked up in the middle of the worlds most unused industrial park across the road :E

Might involve a coffee less meeting in handbrake house but what a way to go....

[badpuppy]

I've done a near vertical take off in a VC10 - XV108, with minimal fuel on board, 4 aircrew (the pilot was an ex-Fighter pilot!!) & 2 ground crew. The aircraft only had 4 rows of seats in the passenger cabin. We refuelled at Tengah, & loaded 6 Atom Bombs, to take back to the UK. We stopped off at Guam, Hawaii, San Fransisco, & Martle Beach South Carolina, on the way back to Scampton, & then on to Brize Norton. - Us two ground crew were onboard to refuel it & to fix any snags. I spent a lot of the time in the cockpit on the way home. Great experience. Great aircraft. Very sorry that they have now been scrapped.

[NutLoose]

There are a couple still flying, the last C1 at Brunty will be kept as a runner..


:O

[NutLoose]

Keeping a promise :)

[SRENNAPS]

Keeping a promise

Thanks Nutloose :O much appreciated.

The thing that amuses me is that just about all the threads above this one actually involved the VC10. :ok::ok:

[Savannah Jet]

For the real VC-10 fans here...

ZA147 is in the Falklands, and is rumoured not to be coming back

ZA148 and ZA150 (the last VC-10 built) are currently stationed at Brize Norton until their withdrawal from service in mid-September.

It will be a sad day when the last one lands for the final time...I shall miss them more than most

see Visual Approach Images: VC-10 (http://www.visualapproachimages.com/gallery_328503.html)

S1177

[NutLoose]

It's a shame one may get broken so far south...

[rolandpull]

I sat on a revetment one afternoon in MPN looking down on a young sapper in a JCB chew up the F4's - fascinating but sad at the same time. Shame to see another 'proper' jet go the same way, if that is the plan. It would make a nice coffee shop or bar.

[Truck2005]

Oldsarbouy

The door was not supposed to be operated at all when refuel/defueling. You can open it before or after though, which was the norm down route at least.

I had a similar problem on route. Tried the tow/jump on the wing/move the pallets around/use locking wire to pull the lock in/shift fuel around and simply kick the door outside to no avail. Finally got it to work by taking all the load off the pallets, closing the door and hand load the pallets back on:{

(We had a plane load of rather large built squaddies to assist)!

Had another occasion where taxiing right out of the parking slot at Deci and motoring the final few inches shut worked!!!!

[Oldsarbouy]

Truck2005

No, I didn't open or close the door during either refuelling or defuelling but it strikes me that, as it appears to be a rather common occurance, it should have been taught at ground school which, in my case, would have saved a substantial amount of money in extra hotel bills!
Further to rumour of 147 staying down south, I believe that the intention is to bring it home, for disposal, in September, watch this space.
Still have bottles of the special VC10 malt available!:ok:

[smujsmith]

I got broken, quite badly, it eventually led to my Medical discharge, whilst on Albert in GW1. I will never forget the comfort, quiet and speed of my return home on the Queen if the skies. Despite never having served on the 10, I always loved the "great white guzzomie bird". Keep the thread up there guys, she's worth it.

Smudge:ok:

[edwardspannerhands]

Seem to recall an incident back in '88. XV109 had just dropped a load of Percy Pongos off at Leuchars (or Edinburgh - can't recall exactly) and was coming back to BZN. Somewhere over Birmingham one of the left-hand mainwheels "exploded", taking out a lot of hydraulic lines and blowing a lot of cr@p down the port donks. 'BZ' to the crew who limped her back home.:D

[BEagle]

edwardspannerhands, you can read more about the '109 incident at http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/416801-7-little-weeks-sadness-xv109-today.html .

The crew certainly did NOT deserve 'BZ'.....:mad:

[haltonapp]

I think the exploding tyre took out the LP fuel valve cluster in that u/c bay, thats why the two engines they fed flamed out! The squadrons procedure for flight when asymmetric, simulated or for real, was to open the inter engine valves to maintain fuel balance, which in this case was nearly catastrophic! Those of us on the "superior tanker" squadron never did that, we used the fuel tank inlet and outlet valves.

[Truck2005]

I do not know the full details of the damage in the LH bay but the inter-engine valve is part of the same assembly as the #1 & 2 LP cocks, (Triple-cock assembly), so by losing the LP Cocks selection of the inter-engine valve would not make any difference. However, selecting the Crossfeed Transfer valve would not be a very good idea!

[haltonapp]

I was remiss, I forgot to mention the cross feed transfer was also opened, (all three valves were normally opened together) to achieve fuel balance!

[November4]

It was Marines picked up from Gardermoen with some dropped off at Leuchars and the rest for Brize. The VC10 had replaced a Hercules which had gone U/S.

[smujsmith]

Blimey November4,

The days when a VC10 replaced an Albert on a trooping run. In my experience there was usually a Q crew at Lyneham, and plenty of spare frames. How unlucky the 10 was to have the tyre blow out and subsequent probs. I still say, if I still had a passport, I would rather go on holiday on a 10 than anything else flying at the moment.

Smudge :ok:

[lauriebe]

XR808 putting its port bogie down on a foam strip at Tengah, 29 April 1968.

Incidents and Accidents (http://www.vc10.net/History/incidents_and_accidents.html#Burst_tires_Tengah_1968)

[NutLoose]

Keep them coming, my first meeting with the Ten was during detachment to Colt, one had arrived to take a Sqn off on detachment and as he powered out of the apron he took out a wooden shed that dissappeared like matchsticks... it was a satisfying thing to watch. :)
Later flying on one to Deci ( where they also used to reverse out of the apron ) one had a look around the cockpit enroute, never envisaging they would be my next posting..


..

[Motleycallsign]

c'mon smuj, you must remember the thinking at the secret airbase in Wilts: 'You can't use the standby crew we might need them for a callout'

[goudie]

'You can't use the standby crew we might need them for a callout'
Same philosophy applied by storemen the world over.
''Yer can't have it 'cos it's the last one and it might be needed for an emergency!''

[smujsmith]

Motleycallsign,

Accept your premise, but having stood Q regularly, I found that we were often sent off on a "recovery", as it was quicker than waiting for the 6A crew to get in to base and plan. I never complained, one resulted in a week on the ground in Bermuda when we were sent on a recovery of an aircraft needing a valve housing change, to arrive and find it needed a propellor change. Life's a bitch, etc.

Smudge :ok:

[haltonapp]

Now that's what I call a thread drift, how did Albert standby's get on this?

[NutLoose]

It's called penis envy... :p

[Davita]

I was thinking of my time as an F/E on 10Sqn VC10 when I recalled there was a synchronizer indicator above the F/Es thrust levers and it had 3 little props...but cannot remember why only 3...there were 4 engines.
Also, I remember we sometimes put the outboard engines into idle reverse to assist the tug pushback....the RAF only had 2 reversers...did the civil version have 4 reversers?

[BANANASBANANAS]

Only 3 synch props as the #2 Eng (I think) was the master and the 3 sync props enabled 1,3 and 4 to be synced to #2.

[NutLoose]

Yes the RAF had two, some of the Civi's had 4 thrust reversers

[smujsmith]

Haltonapp,

Sorry about that, it was sort of related to the 10, and I'm trying to do my bit for keepy uppy of the thread. I proffer profuse apologies to your sensitivities, which have obviously been disturbed. :sad:

Smudge

[NutLoose]

:)

Most of my detachments I got the Herk, while the rest of the Squadron got the Ten

[mole man]

Going down town Washington DC with Bill the Crew Bus Driver

Mole Man:ok:

[SRENNAPS]

Most of my detachments I got the Herk, while the rest of the Squadron got the Ten

Spooky, as did I. Normally because I was on the advance and rear parties. But I do remember coming back from Deci after being left to recover a dead jet. The Herc that was supposed to take us home broke down. They bent a 10 in to pick us up and because we were in uniform and the rest of the passengers were in civvies we were treat like royalty by everybody. I was only a Cpl:E :O

[goudie]

SRENNAPS
I was only a Cpl
Shouldn't that be 'But of course I was a cpl?:ok:

[SRENNAPS]

Shouldn't that be 'But of course I was a cpl?

That made me chuckle. Of course it should have been :ok:

Thank you:D

[dagama]

Quote:

I was only a Cpl

When I was a Jnr Magician in Base Hangar, Cpls were GOD. Then I became a Cpl and Sgts were GODs. I never became a GOD, but went off for a blood transfusion!

[SRENNAPS]

When I was in Base Hangar we had a lad who had taken 20 odd years to go from SAC to JT. After a further 10 years he became a Cpl, he was literally older than my really old first Chief. When this lad did become a Cpl he became a nightmare and threatened to charge all of us within a few days. Fortunately the real God called Sgt sorted him out.:E

[spanners123]

My 1st posting after my Mechs course was to LSS 'C'. Although I only spent a year on the VC-10, I had a great time. I seem to remember my FS didn't like U/S frames sitting on the pan in ball and roller fit, and insisted on them being re-rolled for pax, either though the required fit was still unknown. Just as well we had plenty of riggers on shift ;)

[haltonapp]

What other aeroplane has the RAF ever had, that has visited so many places in the world? I personally went to Ulan Bator in one, and Novosibirsk on more than one occasion!

[Davita]

I remember a trip to Addis Ababa, Ethiopia with Prime Minister Wilson on board who was meeting with Haile Selassie. The airport is over 7.000ft elevation.
I recall having to 'climb' the cabin altitude to land.
The protocol was the UK PM did not want to stand on Ethiopian soil so Haile Selassie came on board for lunch.
We had a problem starting the APU as, I think....it was out of its height limits. We had to tweak it's FCU to get it working.....lucky we had a Crew Chief on the trip as the PM was an angry man and didn't want any ground equipment to touch our VC10.
We got the APU started and I wound the Aircon and the recirc fans to max to keep the A/C cool.

Maybe some GE can comment if I have my details correct....it was a long time ago.

[NutLoose]

Spanners, I was LSS A shift..

Davita.....
Prepping a VIP for Maggie, the last finishing bits was the little lightweight "golf balls" that covered the fittings for folding the hat racks up. Unfortunately a leg had broken, we had no spares and the jet was about to depart, sticking it up with a lump of Bodge tape I told the boss, ” it'll do a trip".... it did, though the second trip from Heathrow it fell off and hit Maggie on the top of the head, I remember the Boss telling me in muffled tones.... How we laughed.

[Dan Gerous]

First trip in a 10, was a training sortie at Lossie, when a tannoy call went out for volunteers for a flight. Massively over subscribed. I recall we covered a large part of Scotland during it. Memories are passing over Tiree and looking down on one of 202's Whirlwinds doing some training off the coast near Lossie. The Cpl from the bay I worked in, was asked to play an awkward passenger, which he seemed to enjoy. My most memorable trip was coming back from Ascension after hostilities ceased. There were a few sailors on board who had come from down South. As soon as the seatbelt signs went off, they crashed out across the seats or on the floor between the seat rows, and slept most of the way back. I imagined it must have been a while since any of them had had a decent sleep. Got a few trips on them during my time in the RAF, and always enjoyed them. Still looks futuristic now, despite their age.

[Davita]

Quote
Davita.....
Prepping a VIP for Maggie, the last finishing bits was the little lightweight "golf balls" that covered the fittings for folding the hat racks up. Unfortunately a leg had broken, we had no spares and the jet was about to depart, sticking it up with a lump of Bodge tape I told the boss, ” it'll do a trip".... it did, though the second trip from Heathrow it fell off and hit Maggie on the top of the head, I remember the Boss telling me in muffled tones.... How we laughed.
Unquote

That's funny....I guess that was the only way she could get CROWNED!

Maggie came after my VC10 VIP F/Es tour but I kept in touch with a colleague who replaced me and he told me of a tale of when he went to take a pee he caught Maggie on the can with...as this Scotsman said "Her knickers doon!' She had forgotten to snub the door.
Not a pretty sight I imagine, and enough to put the crew off the baloney sandwhich they usually fed us. :E

[Union Jack]

Not a pretty sight I imagine,

Oh dear, Davita, that's not very nice - I suspect that none of us looks that wonderful on the throne, possibly not even you - or me!:)

Jack

[NutLoose]

I was de-icing one up on the apron, you normally squirted all the controls and wings etc first, but left the fuselage until the pax's were safetly ensconced on board to stop it dripping on them as they boarded, having watched all the pax on I was given the signal to let rip, starting at the front I bounced it off the fuselage from my position just aft of the stb wing giving it a good coating...
Unbeknown to any of us there was a VIP flying that day, some General or other who having awaited the multitude to get aboard and be seated climbed the steps to be hit with the full flow of a de-ice truck bouncing off the fuselage... his suit was apparently not a pretty sight and one felt that inter service cooperation had taken a backward step that day... I believe there was a marked sound of contained laughter when he entered the cabin from the rest of the pax :E


.

[ICM]

Ah yes, those screened-off front seat VIP fits! I suspect they might always have been in occasional use but, with the demise of 216 Sqn's Comets in the mid-70s, they became increasingly common, both East and Westbound. Their existence could make life awkward for the Cabin Crew when senior personages, not quite so senior as the chap in front, took offence at a difference in treatment accorded to them. They were sufficiently frequent in the later-70s that no attempt could be made to ensure a 'VIP crew' flew every leg of a HK slip, say, as that would have been quite impractical from a scheduling point of view. Proper VVIP/VIP flights were those scheduled as such and given a 1000-series task number.

[haltonapp]

I did a NATO VIP trip from Brussels to Lisbon, the seating plan, full pax fit, put the big NATO VIP at the front of the aircraft, but he was not happy looking at the back of all those heads and insisted he sat at the very back of the aircraft, near the motors! Did we chuckle!

[Agatha]

The youngest ever members of the RAF Association, rafa YOUTH, had a VIP experience on 2nd August at RAF Brize Norton with opportunities to fly the VC10 Simulator, tour around and then have lunch on the C17, view the Voyager and have an all-round amazing day.

Here’s what they thought about their VC10 experience........ rafa YOUTH Prizewinners RAF Brize Norton 2nd August 2013 - YouTube (http://youtu.be/Fy0ZdRT9KnU)

and it clearly doesn't get much better than that - huge thanks to all at RAF Brize Norton for such amazing support!! :ok:

[thing]

Did a few 10 trips but the one that stands out in my mind was returning from Belize. I had flown out there via Lyneham and Gander in a Herc; it took three days as I remember... The 10 was sheer luxury in comparison returning via Bermuda.

Not only that but four of us had a very tight connection with a trooper from Luton to Gut. Brize bless their socks stuck us on a 10 and flew the four of us to Luton.

[NutLoose]

I must say the inflight catering on the C17 seems to be a vast improvement over the buttie box we got on the Wessex, Puma, Chinook, Herc, VC10 in my day Agatha

[NutLoose]

Walking past the Skip I find a Cpl airframe chappie going through all the foor detritus removed from the VC10, querying what he was doing and if he wanted lunch i would buy him one, he points out that the buttie boxes each contained a Shiphams meat spread jar and each jar label had an offer on it, 4 or 5 labels for £1 and there were 156 meal boxes in here from one jet alone, which in the late 80's equated to about £30, he in the end sent in and recieved about the equivalent of his months pay before the offer ended.

[Shiny10]

The friday Dulles always had a spare 'frame' (that's how they talked). All hell broke lose when the primary went U/S two hours before departure. The Flt Sgt panicked and told me to generate another frame for the Primary slot, I suggested that we use the 'Spare' as the Primary, his reply - "If we do that we won't have a spare". He was serious.:ugh:

As a GE we nightstopped Gut on the way to Ascension. I had a trainee who did the refuel on landing and then panicked as the figures didn't add up. I dipped all the tanks to find that the 8 gauges were under-reading. I telephoned Brize to get the Calibration Kit shipped out, the reply was, "You can't have it as we only have one and we may need it". :ugh:

I can laugh about it now. :)

[haltonapp]

Taking Ghurkas from HK to Seoul, 120 Ghurka curries from Dairy Farm in the oven brought tears to your eyes! Calgary to Keflavik, soldiers just off the range, gear up, their boots off, cigarettes lit, brought tears to your eyes! I know which was preferable!

[ICM]

The VC10's pax cabin for Ex Medicine Man flights to/from Calgary was a sight to behold, with almost all spare space filled with soldiers' personal kit. One year when aircraft were slipping through Brize outbound from Gutersloh, two headcounts with the clicker showed a passenger missing. To resolve things, pax were offloaded and a quick parade and count were held on the ramp - all present and correct. It then emerged that one chap in a window seat had got back on board and immediately burrowed under a pile of mukluks etc for a kip and completely vanished from sight.

[Gerontocrat]

Summer 1974, and I was a SLOJO at Brize on my Cadetship summer detachment. After all the excitement generated by events in Cyprus, life had calmed down a touch, and I was often asked if I would like to fly with one or other of the squadrons there at the time - notably on the Belslow and with 10 Sqn.
One day I was asked if I would like to go on a quick families/trooping jolly to Gutersloh - out and back, couple of hours - a long lunch-break, really.
On approach to GUT, three greens didn't come up. The aircraft flew past the tower a couple of times from where it was confirmed all three were down. The Captain asked the Flt Eng to just pop downstairs and check the recalcitrant element was actually locked - if not, hand lock it. (As I type I realise this may be b******s, but it is what I was told and thought I heard at the time!)
Again, if I recall correctly, access to 'downstairs' was somewhere in the pax cabin and I watched the reaction of those around the hatch as they saw a chap, in overalls, carrying a toolbox, pull up the carpet and hatch and disappear. The more observant pax had already noticed we had been going round in circles for a while, so they were not exactly enthusiastic about this - and it showed in their reactions.
Clearly, we landed safely but, despite the Captain saying he was happy to take the return pax, wheels down, 38 Gp (is that right?) said no and despatched a replacement aircraft for the pax.
I elected to fly back to Brize with the original crew, wheels down, and jolly interesting it was too. I regretted I did not have a camera as we flew, relatively low, in a sky full of those beautiful, very tall, flattish at the top, fluffy clouds, playing 'in and out the dusty windows'.

[NutLoose]

The floor hatch is indeed in the fwd galley, one see off I dropped down the hatch to stow intake blanks in the fwd hold, leaving the hatch open while I stowed them.. in the mean time one of the very attractive Air loadmasters we had asked the rest of the see off team if they would like a Coffee, so standing astride the hatch she was making the drinks for the boys when who should appear up between her legs :p
The guys were in stiches and she couldn't understand what they were laughing at until she looked down past her skirt.

P.s i did'nt look........ honest

[Gerontocrat]

Seeing the ref to MedMan flights above reminded me.
Mid-1980 and I had, by then, transferred to an Armoured Regiment which was leading a MedMan battlegroup. For my sins, somebody with a sense of humour, probably the Regt Adjt (currently Black Rod, BTW) knowing I had been through Sleaford Tech, rather than the Camberley Factory, had nominated me - a Capt - as Movements Officer for the battlegroup.
One of the two 10 Sqn aircraft allocated to the return move had gone t**s up in Keflavik on an earlier chalk - thoroughly p*****g of our CO who had not read Standing Orders and failed to carry his green maggot with him, ensuring him an uncomfortable night at Keflavik - and I had had to reallocate all remaining pax chalks to the single aircraft a munificent 38 Grp had left us.
As Mover, I, naturally, travelled back to GUT on the last chalk. This meant I was on an aircraft that was, at best, half full.
When we boarded at Calgary, a (I have to admit, rather officious) FltSgt informed all embarking pax: "All brown jobs down the back, and fill up all seats down there."
To me, this didn't sound quite right - half full aircraft!: there should have been a few places to stretch out, at least. (And I wasn't totally ignorant of the need to trim the aircraft, either.)
Despite my protests, he was adamant - and that not totally politely.
I gently asked to speak to the Captain. This august personage turned out to be a chap who had been a QFI at ULAS during my time there, and with whom I had flown a fair few times when visiting Abingdon.
Net result was we did get to stretch out, a good flight was enjoyed, we were well looked after, and my stock with the troops went up no end!

[NutLoose]

- ... ..- -- .--.




:O

[Gerontocrat]

- ... ..- -- .--. / -....- / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - . / .--. .-.. . .- ... . .-.-.-

[smujsmith]

Crikey, it must be a case for Inspector Morse :rolleyes:

Smudge :ok:

[NRU74]

Geronto
Shouldn't the last bit be - di dah di dah dit rather than the full stop ?

[smujsmith]

No mate, its

Dah dah dah, dah dah, dah dah dah, dah dah, dah dah dah dah, dah dah dah dah dah......

You must remember it, John Thaw ?

Smudge :ok:

[Duchess_Driver]

.--. .-. --- -... .- -... .-.. -.-- / .... .- -.. / - --- / -... . / - .... . .-. . .-.-.- .-

[AR1]

She was only the radio operators daughter - but she Didit, didit, didit...

[Gerontocrat]

Memo to self: Don't try to be a smartar**e - it will only come back and bite you!
No, it was the acronym TSUMP that flummoxed me.

[Gerontocrat]

The only TSUMP I can find is: "Todos Somos Un Mundo Pequeño"
Which, loosely, means "It's a small world" . Am I close?

[Dysonsphere]

god morse code we are all supposed to know it I have to read it of my clipboard these days.:\

[haltonapp]

Blimey! How did this thread end up on morse code?

[NutLoose]

I tapped out the word bump in it, got to admit a heck of a thread drift, but the radio operator was the only person missing out of a VC10 cockpit. :E

[SRENNAPS]

So talking of radios...... As the VC10 has been in service for so many years and the technology advance in communications over those years has been immense. How many different type of radios has the VC10 had fitted to it.

Also, when I worked on the aircraft all those years ago I seemed to remember the fairy trade fitting some form of modification enhancement called Omega.....what was that??

[haltonapp]

OMEGA was the first truly global radio navigation system for aircraft, operated by the United States in cooperation with six partner nations. It enabled ships and aircraft to determine their position by receiving very low frequency (VLF) radio signals in the range 10 to 14 kHz, transmitted by a network of fixed terrestrial radio beacons, using a receiver unit. It became operational around 1971 and was shut down in 1997. Hope this helps. It was replaced in the VC10 by a swept up Litton Inertial Nav system which was downgraded by RAF so that it was no better than the Omega! I think the Navigation branch wanted to ensure that they could not be replaced!

[Prangster]

Davita your post is the first time I've ever heard of a 10 being a bit of a beggar to land if light on weight, not that I had all that much to do with the beastie but your point might explain the curious landing of the first RB 211 flying test bed. I was a Rolls Royce Noise Research Dept staff member and helped take recordings of the first flight. The two port Conways had been replaced by a RB 211 (as per Tristar) and I have a vivid recollection of the a/c arriving almost sideways and lurching towards us as it touched down. In retrospect we were a bit too close to the edge of the runway for safety but hey its all in the name of research...I think two tyres burst on the port side, the bangs just adding to the sense of urgency to get the hell out of there.

Earlier, during the engineering phase there had been a bit of a consternation when evactuation drills appeared to be a bit hairy. Someone finally noticed the a/c was on its jacks!

[NutLoose]

Well it was common knowledge the Nav was in the cockpit of the Ten to balance out the weight of the Loadie down the back. :O

We watched an evacuation drill and a poor WRAF wearing nylon knickers had them welded to her posterior as she went down the slide, she didn't seem to appreciate us all standing round watching as the medic attempted to get em off her..

[SRENNAPS]

haltonapp

Thanks mate :)

[vascodegama]

OK Halton I'll bite -in what way was the Litton downgraded as you suggest?

[Davita]

@prangster
I don't think I said anything about landing the VC10. I did post about my 10 years as an F/E on B747 and commented about landing that A/C light, on another thread...... maybe you read that post!

For clarity and reference, forum members, please indulge with me in nostalgia, then I'll shut-up.
I was on the first batch of RAF crew on the VC10. We did our training at Cranebank under the auspices of BOAC. I was the youngest of F/Es selected as all others were from Britannia or Comet fleets...I came from the Hastings. In hindsight, I think I was an experiment but, nevertheless, I recall getting the best help and advice and assistance from my colleagues, most of whom had WW2 medals.
As soon as I left the VC10 conversion I was sent to Officer Cadet Training Unit RAF Henlow (OCTU), had a transplant and got a better uniform, and came back as deputy VC10 F/E leader. I obtained a 'B' category and joined the VIP crew captained by S/L 'Pete' Wooldridge AFC DFC. In those early days we employed the crew concept. Most were from the same fleets as I described but many others came from the V-Force...in time the crews became more diverse.
The first CO of 10 sqn was W/C 'Mike' Beavis, who I believe became an ACM. He also guided me in those early days of being a newbie. In return....I fixed his bike!
Sadly, the Flight Simulator F/E boss had a heart attack and suddenly died. I always wondered, later, if putting a medically unfit person as a Flight Simulator instructor was a good idea! Anyway, I was the obvious replacement, so I emptied my desk and walked up the street to 241 OCU and my new job.
My only previous experience of instructional technique was in Singapore (Tengah, Seletar) where I was seconded to the Malayan Aux Air Force (MAAF). We taught basic A/C Engineering to GE volunteer cadets and 2 pilots taught flying on Chipmunks...I believe some of those cadet pilots became the original local crew of Singapore Airways (SQ). Co-incidentally, I also gained a PPL on Chipmunks and my Riley Pathfinder needed a decoke coz I stole 100/130 octane to fill her up. I was i/c fuel bowser on the weekends.
Sorry, I digress easily.
I recognized my fallibilty in instructional technique and also saw the same in the team in the Simulator. I'm sure many members here have panicked when told they were to go fly the Sim in those days...it was considered the 'orror machine'.... so I attended the school of learning. The motto there was 'The art of teaching is to provide a situation from which others learn'. I have used that motto ever since...telling others how good one is achieves nothing except stroking one's own ego!
My tour in the VC10 Sim and my many visits and modification meets with Redifon were over in a flash (3 years). My next posting was Ops Officer on 511 Britannia Sqn, over the r/way at BZN, or 99 Sqn...I forget. I hated that job as my responsibilties, as a senior Fl/Lt, were less than when I was a Cpl in Transit A/C Servicing(TAS) at RAF Butterworth in 1956. I applied for an interview and subsequently visited MOD where they offered me service till 55. The interviewing Wing Commander, who used to be a Navigator on Hastings with me, advised they did not know where I would go next or what rank I could achieve, so I took Premature Voluntary Retirement (PVR)...and looked for a job in aviation.
It was April/May 1974 and OPEC had just raised the price of oil to over US$50 a barrel...silly me......looking for a flying job!

That's another story...... but thanks for reading this one.

[haltonapp]

Vasco, I am going back fifteen years, the display unit on the forward panel, essentially a HSI, had a range fixed at twenty miles, so the magenta line went from bottom to top, no route could be displayed!

[BEagle]

Not so! The only limitation on the Carousel IV INS when first installed in the VC10K was the lack of a TAS feed in the early 'breadboard' installations done on-squadron. But that was rectified during the 'official' mod. programme. The 101 Sqn JEngO was generously awarded the 'Cock Up of the Month' trophy for having cut several lengths of expensive cable needed for the 'breadboard' mod., only to discover that the tape measure he was using had 18" missing from the end, so all the cables were useless....:hmm:

The FMS 800 RDU, which is the display to which you refer, most certainly did display routes included in the navigator's CDU - in white, not magenta. But that appeared about 15 years after the Carousel; at the same time it replaced the Carousel IV repeater in the VC10C1K.

I have only seen an 'HSI' presentation once on the VC10K FMS RDU - due to faulty software, bizarrely it appeared and confused the heck out of us. A shut down and reboot produced the normal display a few minutes later though.

I agree that that we should have had the 'full' FMS 800 though - and with a second RDU for the navigator.

[Non Emmett]

VC10 to Classic Air Force

VC10 ZA148 is due to be flown to Newquay on August 28th to join Classic Air force and their growing collection.

Apologies for interrupting VC10 recollections which I am enjoying.

[TLDNMCL]

Apart from it being a beautiful aeroplane, one of the best things about the VC10 has to be the leftover blueberry muffins from the Dulles trips... which, er, went straight into the skip of course!:=

For "skip", you can substitute crewrooms various, trade manager's offices, liney's leg pockets, etc, etc...

[NutLoose]

And the Dulles burgers....

They had a signal come through saying save fuel as the budget was about up, looking out the window a VC 10 goes past on tow from the front with the APU running, "there's one waste, why are they running the APU"... In I come after having done brakes to be quizzed on why I'm wasting fuel... "Ahh I says, I had the Dulles Burgers in the ovens for us all on the tow team"

Nods of approval all round.

[SRENNAPS]

We stopped at Dulles once on route back from Vegas. The 10 had some form of problem and there was a rumour of a night stop. Anyway our Sqn Boss kicked up a fuss, saying that we had been away for a month and all we wanted to do was get home :ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

I assure you a night stop was far more appealing to most of us. :E:E:E

Sadly they fixed the Jet and all we saw was some waiting room in the airport :mad::mad:

[SimTech67]

You may all be interested to know that on Friday 13th September the VC10 K3 and the C Mk1K simulators will fly their last details.

As I understand it they will be flown by a very senior crew. On completion of the detail it is intended that there will be a small informal ceremony at which the two simulators will be powered down for the last time, followed by a small corporate function for the guests.

I have been invited to perform switching off of the K Mk3. As one of the installation engineers I switched it on for the first time after bringing it from the Rediffusion factory in Crawley in 1987.

It will be a sad day, and brings to an end a 47 year association between Redifon / Rediffusion /Thales and the Vickers VC10.

[Evanelpus]

The 101 Sqn JEngO was generously awarded the 'Cock Up of the Month' trophy for having cut several lengths of expensive cable needed for the 'breadboard' mod.

Happy memories, the Cock up of the Month trophy. We had one at Bitteswell, it was a giant jabrock phallus, something I only ever won once when I gave clearance for a Vulcan to be lowered off the jacks only to find that none of the tyres had been inflated!!

[BEagle]

SimTech67, I must have flown thousands of hours in those sims, both in the seat and as an instructor.

Last year, thanks to SEngO, OC101 and the Stn Cdr, I flew the K3 sim again for the first time in 10 years - and taught 8 colleagues to land it!

It still flew as well as ever and I hope that someone has realised that there's good money to be made from selling off the VC10 and VC10K sims in serviceable condition. Has anyone approached a museum?

[NutLoose]

Good point Beagle, here is a suggestion

Commercial & Military Flight Simulators (http://www.realsimulation.co.uk/f4-flight-simulator-experience.php)


I used to play on the original C1 one, the one that didn't like wheels up landings or loops :E
We had some hours set aside for engineering playi.....training.

[SimTech67]

Beagle there are rumors that the museum at Brooklands have expressed an interest.

Of course at the end of the contract the ownership of the simulators reverts to the MOD. They will be responsible for the disposal. Hopefully as you say someone will recognise their potential as revenue earners. That said organisations express an interest until they realise the enormous running costs of a full flight simulator, IIRC 180Kw power consumption with the motion running. It certainly make the meter spin quite quickly. On top of that the visual projector tubes are becoming increasingly difficult and expensive to source.

[CoffmanStarter]

180Kw power consumption ...

Sadly BEagle, that might rule out your garage then ...

[BEagle]

SimTech67, the Brooklands museum would be ideal. They've managed to get their Concorde simulator working almost 100% now, although I think that it's fixed base. They also found a new technology way of including a very good visual system...

The old VC10 / VC10K simulator visual projection system was good when it was first installed, but became dimmer with time, no matter how new the projection tubes were. But still good enough to fly a visual circuit and to beat up the Stn Cdr's house at 100 ft!

Perhaps the K3 sim could be gifted to the Classic Air Force at St. Newquay Mawgan and the C1 to Brooklands?

Or is 'gifting' anathema to MoD beancounters?

[Savannah Jet]

Amidst all the nostalgia, a reminder that 3 are still flying. This was at Brize Norton yesterday...

ZA150 taxies out for a 1430 departure as Tartan 41 from RW26

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/9573519564_7edcc8cdb0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9573519564/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7335/9573519438_41b47fdbd6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9573519438/)

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7389/9570722317_579fd41fb8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9570722317/)

Arriving back overhead at 1720 for two touch and goes and a full stop on RW08

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5448/9570722199_42fbe819c0_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9570722199/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/9573519244_9fd898de39_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9573519244/)

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5331/9570722033_f1abbe4f1a_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9570722033/)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3775/9573518834_68741db811_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/bethpagejet/9573518834/)

Happy days !

Savannah Jet

[Exascot]

Just standingby for someone to mention 'many happy hours' in either sim. Not holding my breath. The retiring VC10 sim was certainly an improvement on the original one though.

[haltonapp]

Perhaps they might like to consider a barrel role in the sim, motion off of course! it has been done before, it required a touch of speed brake over the top if i remember correctly!

[Wessex Boy]

Will be such a shame to see these retire.

I haven't flown on a VC10 but my last Air Cadet camp was at Binbrook and incorporated the last of the Lightning show (1987), which many of you will remember was rather moist.

I was an 18 year-old Cadet Flight Sergeant and I had met and chatted with the '10 crew on arrivals day. On the show day I was 'taking care' of a couple of lumpy-jumpered cadets wandering around the airshow trying to stay dry-ish. One of the '10 crew saw and recognised me with my accomplices and invited us on-board to dry out and watch the show on the CCTV screens they had for the refuelling whilst providing German fizzy refreshments...it was a very pleasant afternoon, although one of the ladies seemed to disappear for a while....

I joined up as NCO Aircrew 8 months later..... ;)

[smujsmith]

Savannah Jet,

Thanks for those beautiful photos. Can anyone doubt this aircraft as the best looking Transport aircraft to grace the Royal Air Force, and that from an Albert bloke ! They say all good things come to an end, the 10s departure from the scene will truly be such an occasion.

Smudge :ok:

[Wessex Boy]

Agreed, still looks like something from Thunderbirds

[Davita]

@Exascot quote
"Just standingby for someone to mention 'many happy hours' in either sim. Not holding my breath. The retiring VC10 sim was certainly an improvement on the original one though."

While technology does offer improvements I think it worth mentioning that the first RAF VC10 Flight Simulator was VERY advanced for it's time.
I was the first qualified F/E Instructor on this Redifon produced 6? axis Argus 350 digital Flight Simulator. I believe it was the first Digital Sim and the computer was tiny compared with the huge analogue computed Belfast Sim next door.

I recall we used a teaching 4 session followed by a category rating for crew. To relax the guys, and indicate we examiners were human not devils, we would put a picture of a naked girl on the visual map and that was what they would see when we opened the visual panels.
Once, whilst awaiting the next Flight Check session we were visited by a whole bunch of VIPs hosted by BZN Station Commander, who was a VC10 pilot. He asked me to open the windows so the VIPs, including some elderly ladies, could see the visual map. With great trepidition I flicked the switch, just in time to see our Master AEO/Console Operator ripping the pic from the wall....phew!:\

[fincastle84]

September 2 1985 flying my new wife & myself to Dulles en route Ottawa to start my 3 year exchange at CFB Greenwood. Happy, happy memories.

[NutLoose]

Cough.... cough

[CoffmanStarter]

At 1056 local on Wednesday, 28 August Vickers VC10 K3 ZA148 landed at Newquay Cornwall Airport to become a permanent part of the Classic Air Force collection.

http://globalaviationresource.com/v2/wp-content/gallery/vc10-za148g/vc102.jpg

In this pic on the Captains side ... apparently you can see etched "BEagle woz here once" ... only kidding :ok:

http://globalaviationresource.com/v2/wp-content/gallery/vc10-za148g/img_2826.jpg

More of the story and pics here ...

Global Aviation Resource (http://globalaviationresource.com/v2/2013/08/28/news-ex-raf-vickers-vc10-k3-za148-joins-classic-air-force-collection/)

All pics credited to GAR

[NutLoose]

Do you think he let his pet raven go first before cutting that into the trim? Ohh hang on that was the Shawshank Redemption.. :p

[SRENNAPS]

I have a picture of ZA148 flying past or from (not sure which?) St Athan this morning on route to Newquay. Pic was taken by a friend who works there.

It is on Flickr here:

VC10 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinspans/9613820469/)

Sorry but I cannot work out how to display the photo here :ugh::ugh:


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2842/9613820469_e63e3ac9f6_c.jpg

And there it was displayed!! How'd that happen????

[BEagle]

So that's just 2 K3s left now to support Call-me-Dave's Syrian adventurism when the 3-engined things go tits up again?

[NutLoose]

Better not go on long, there is an open day planned

[kaitakbowler]

Forgive me for intruding on an aircrew forum, as a young cpl mt fitter posted to Kai Tak in 1977, we (wife and 2yr old) travelled out via Bahrain and Columbo (?) 21hrs in the great bird. We then had a MQ at Sunderland Rd Kowloon, right underneath the chequerboard, our flats were 3 stories high, any higher being deemed to high. My daughter would sit on the draining board in the kitchen and the a/c would approach head on to us she would run out onto the balcony as they dipped the starboard wing to watch the turn in over stinkies market. At 2 1/2 yrs old she knew the difference between Tristars and DC10's from head on. I remember the November VC10 trainers qualifying for the Ka Tak approach, and how the weekly BA VC10 was booked way in advance, a very popular ride.

How pleased were we to be offered a '10 instead of a British Eagle Britannia, when tourex Changi in '68? Very.

PM