RAF VC10 - Great Memories

[CoffmanStarter]

KTB ...

Welcome to PPRuNe on your first post ...

This is not an exclusive mil aircrew forum see below ...

Military Aircrew A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here.

Best regards ...

[spanish no fly]

I was asked once by an Albert crew member why Muppets became misty eyed when they saw a 10. I think if he read this thread, he would understand.
I was tasked to Calgary on a Med. Man, just after I married Mrs. SNF. She had to return on her own as my Team had to wait for a DAC Albert. The Loadmaster asked the Captain if he would take someone on the jump seat and he mentioned the Regt. O.C. "Oh no, you don't want him, you want Mrs. SNF, she's returning home off Honeymoon." That experience cured her of her fear of flying.Superb aeroplane.:ok:
SNF

[Jhieminga]

Shameless bump... Less than two weeks left in the 10's active service, we can't let this thread drop off the first page!

[Truck2005]

Can't believe the flight deck looks like that. I was on it yesterday and it was a little bit more untidy. Then again, I was trying to show the contractors how to turn the power on and cleaning it up was the last thing on my mind.

And I cannot believe that the yoke badges were still on:D

[Davita]

There is another forum dedicated to the VC10 which will hopefully survive longer that the A/C.
Recording the VC10 demise the contributor there laments (jokingly) that he hopes his mother, who lives in Fairford, doesn't have to re-compensate MOD for the dual window installation they funded.
I wonder about that coz' I lived both in Fairford and Brize MQ and the Conway noise, although crackling, was direct and short lived.
The noise from the Belfast was reverbating and pounding and lasting and caused all my windows to shake!

Must be something about harmonics.:8

[NutLoose]

Blimey Truck, when I was serving on the even the Winchweight were not allowed to put power on and they were crew...

'twas an odd situation as we had a loadie I served with at Odiham posted onto the Ten, he was reduced to asking us to put power on for him which considering he had come off the Chinook ( picking up a gong in the Falklands ) and I think Puma before that. They were responsible or tons of stuff on rotary aircraft and were reduced to sitting down by the aft bog and ticking his pax check lists...

Ever such a nice chap and I think he escaped back to the real world for a loadie eventually.

[Davita]

My recollection as an F/E on the first of the shiny fleet was..... starting the APU and transfer from APU to G/P and vv was tricky....so easy to fire the APU extinguisher bottle.
Did that problem get fixed?

[NutLoose]

Yes, they main prob was you had to hold a bunch of PFCu's switches down as I believe Boscombe had one that when they put external power on the PFCU's were still set to on and the resulting demand rotated the powerset around the genny inside it.

[SimTech67]

Last Detail | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/101719254@N06/9773476833/)

On the 13th September the last VC10 simulator details took place.

The crew consisted of the Station Commander, Air Commodore (retd) Ian Elliott, AVM P Atherton and F/E Flt Sgt John Douglas and not forgetting the two console ops Nick Jones and Mick Rose.

They flew both simulators for about 2 hours. On conclusion of the details we had a little ceremony and powered both simulators down. Very strange to be in the totally silent computer rooms knowing they won't ever be powered up again at Brize Norton.

I was presented with the last simulator authorisation sheet suitably framed.

Just wanted to say to all the Instructors, Students, 101 and 10 Squadron aircrew and all those who have used the simulators over the last 47 years it's been a pleasure knowing you. Thank you for making my job more of a hobby than a career.

ST67

[SRENNAPS]

When is the last flight then, I thought it was early next year?????

[Jhieminga]

Latest info on that is 25th September around 1100am. Plans may change but early next year is a bit too far away, the last two VC10s don't have the hours left to reach that I guess.

[sangiovese.]

Lush, Piggy, Snake and JD together in the last sim....who authorised that lot together!

:E

[CoffmanStarter]

A sad day this coming Friday :(

The last two VC10s are being withdrawn from RAF service at the end of this month after more than 50 years of crucial work around the world.

One returned from the Falklands earlier this month. Both are currently based at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire from where they will make a final sortie around the UK this Friday.

VC10s were used wherever British forces were in action, including in Yemen, the Falklands and the first Gulf War. They were also used to carry members of the Royal family and politicians overseas.

The aircraft is being replaced by Voyager, an aircraft based on a modified A330 holiday jet that is replacing the VC10 and Tristar.

The prototype of the VC10 plane, G-ARTA, made its maiden flight on June 29, 1962, and the VC10 went on to be used heavily by commercial airlines and the military.

At the time the RAF added it to its fleet, it was the heaviest and most powerful aircraft it had used and provided a new global transport capability.

The last of the planes were in service with 101 Squadron, based at RAF Brize Norton, Oxfordshire, pending their retirement.

Over the last half century the VC10 has been involved in many major international crises.

It was used to bring British troops back from Aden, Yemen, in 1967 - the biggest operation of its type since the Berlin airlift.

In February 1979, RAF VC10s and C-130s flew 650 men, women and children out of Iran in four days - moving the Daily Express to comment: "RAF ... the airline you can trust."

In the Falklands War in 1982, the first task of the VC10 was to fly the islands' governor, Rex Hunt, and the 61 Marines of the Naval Party 8901 from the airport of Montevideo in neutral Uruguay.

The VC10 was soon involved in the evacuation of the seriously wounded from Montevideo. Two VC10s were painted with the international markings of the Red Cross and permitted to carry 65 wounded. The aircraft carried more than 400 casualties by this route, which involved a 24-hour flight with a refuelling stop at Ascension Island.

During the first Gulf War, VC10s flew air-to-air refuelling missions and more than 5,000 hours of supply and medical duties.

The VC10 has also been involved in operations in Afghanistan, refuelling British and US aircraft.

The first royal flight by an RAF VC10 was the journey to Australia and back by the Prince of Wales, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath in 1967 for the memorial service for the Australian premier Harold Holt, who drowned while swimming.

The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey.

The VC10 was used for the Queen's bicentennial tour of America. On July 3, 1976, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh embarked on a tour of the USA with the first stop in Bermuda.

Prime minister Tony Blair was on board the last VC10 to complete an approach to Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong on June 29, 1997. He was attending the handover ceremonies of the British colony to China.

Politicians have had varying opinions of the VC10 - Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.

In 1998 a set of divan sofa-beds were added to a VC10 used by Mr Blair at a cost of £50,000 so the premier, his wife and aides could sleep during flights.

The VC10 was a great favourite of Mrs Thatcher. Her office on board was curtained off for extra privacy and she had her own steward to pour drinks, whiskey or mineral water, with a glass of red wine with meals.

Denis Thatcher was also often on board. He enjoyed a quiet gin and tonic and sometimes went to the back of the plane to talk to the "reptiles" - his nickname for journalists.

On August 1, 1990, Mrs Thatcher was presented with a log book to commemorate her 1,000 hours of flying on a VC10.

Freed hostages John McCarthy and Terry Waite flew home by VC10 in 1991 after years of being held in Beirut.


From BFBS News

[Spit the Dog]

"Prime minister Tony Blair was on board the last VC10 to complete an approach to Kai Tak airport in Hong Kong on June 29, 1997. He was attending the handover ceremonies of the British colony to China."
...I was on this flight and witnessed the now famous Tony Blair shirt story.

[haltonapp]

So was I! Mrs Blair was on the flight deck on departure, with thunderstorms all around us, I was telling her that in conditions like this we can get "St Elmo's Fire" around the windows and on the probe, in ten seconds it duly appeared.

[ICM]

"The VC10 was used for the Queen's bicentennial tour of America. On July 3, 1976, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh embarked on a tour of the USA with the first stop in Bermuda."

True enough - and once HM had embarked at Heathrow, the crew requested Start and ATC clearances, when it emerged that BA Ops had failed to file the Flight Plan submitted. The Captain then gently but very firmly insisted that there was now no question of a delayed departure, and that he would start and taxi towards the runway in use for takeoff, by which time he expected a departure clearance of some kind to be available. He did, and one was - and an apology from somebody very senior in BA was subsequently received at MOD(Air).

[NutLoose]

Someone on the Flypast forums came up with a fascinating suggestion, perhaps as BOB failed to get to Cosford due to the runway issues, maybe one of the Sims could.
The more you think about it, with a glass door or the like it could be visible for the public to peer in and see what the cockpit was like, possibly with an inflight view being ran on a loop on the viewing screens, or even have it set up and running, with possible usage being made of it by the training side of the place as well.
After all as a sim it shows another facet of the RAF in peace and war, ideal and a novel display, if not unique in a Museum, also if it was static, the way Cosford is with the raised walkway, it should be possible to display it level with the walkway on legs, thus actually taking up little of the floor space available.



..

[SimTech67]

007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/101719254@N06/9805956206/)

The K3 simulator in flight on Friday.

[sisemen]

nut far too firkin sensible for a risk averse hierarchy who appear to know the price of everything but not the value.

[Chris Scott]

Quote:
Margaret Thatcher always insisted on using the aircraft, but John Major hated its outdated air-conditioning system, preferring Concorde or a Boeing 747.

Outdated? Absolute rubbish. How many airliners have got frig packs for rapid cooling in the Tropics? And how many can produce snow if the Eng. turns on the humidifiers at the same time? :\

Never did rate Mr Major.

[Dan Winterland]

I think it was due to the fact the Freon was always leaking and after a few days down route, the cooling qualities started to reduce. He got a bit hot once in Saudi, I gather.

[Davita]

Quote from post#134 "The first royal flight by an RAF VC10 was the journey to Australia and back by the Prince of Wales, Harold Wilson and Ted Heath in 1967 for the memorial service for the Australian premier Harold Holt, who drowned while swimming.
The flight from London to Melbourne took 21 hours, 46 minutes including two stops at Muharraq in Bahrain and Gan in the Indian Ocean. Civil aircraft took 36 hours at that time to complete the journey." Unquote

As I posted in #3 in this thread...this is the flight I was the F/E crew from Gan to Melbourne and vv...... but it doesn't mention that we stopped in Perth, for a couple of hours, on the way back. This was simply to introduce Prince Charles to Western Australians.
Harold Wilson was outraged as he was being upstaged...I heard him mutter obscenities whilst we waited for the Prince to return.
Later, during flight, my Captain sent an invite to the Prime Minister to visit the cockpit. His response was.....you look after the A/C and I'll look after Great Britain!
At one point I had to descend thru' the galley hatch to the electronic bay for something. He glowered at me and said "What's wrong!" I said I reset a computer module...I wish I'd said "I'll look after the A/C, which is doing well and you look after the country...which isn't!" but at that time...I thought I had a career...:mad:

[Motleycallsign]

"In February 1979, RAF VC10s and C-130s flew 650 men, women and children out of Iran in four days - moving the Daily Express to comment: "RAF ... the airline you can trust.""


As a point of order 4 x C-130's landed in Teheran on 31 Jan '79 evacuating some 500 persons between them to Bahrain. The 10's went in later.

[moggiee]

There is a lot of mis-information being given here on the XV109 incident in November 1988. To the best of my knowledge none of the people making comments were a part of the crew - I was. As the pilot sitting in the right hand seat of that aeroplane on that night I can tell you that most of what you read on this thread about that night is factually incorrect.

For example, there was no tyre damage evident at Gardermoen.
The Captain and FE chose NOT to infom the rest of the crew about the full story at Leuchars - after they had bullied the unfortunate GE into declaring it "fit for one flight". We were told by the Captain that the GE was "perfectly happy" - a straight lie, as we found out later.

There was no hydraulic failure as such - just the fact that the no1 and no2 engines were starved of fuel and both flamed out, thereby indirectly causing a loss of 1 hydraulic system.

No debris went down the port engines - they quit because they had no fuel!

The FE did NOT pump fuel from the right hand side to the left or from the no2 tank into the no1. The facts are that the fuel lines were so badly damaged that he/we had no control of the fuel system and all the fuel from the left hand side was lost through the damaged lines. The fuel in the right hand side was unaffected and all 15,000lb was available to run the no3 and no4 engines ( we "just" lost all 15,000lb of the fuel from the left because we had no way of stopping it running right out of the severed fuel lines.

There is no doubt that we as a crew made some mistakes on the pre-flight decision making (some of that because some of us were deliberately excluded from the decision making process). However, whilst we may have ****ed it up on the ground, we actually did a bloody good job of getting a badly broken aeroplane back on the ground. The double asymmetric approach was performed "by the book" - I believe it was the only time that an RAF VC10 did one for real and was a testament to the training we received from the OCU and Sqn training crews. I think BOAC had one double engine failure though.

The inquiry pinned the blame fairly, squarely and accurately on the shoulders of the Captain and FE. Myself, the Nav and the GE were given bollockings for not standing up to the two arseholes who misled us - a lesson that has stayed with me for the remainder of my career.

My other post on this matter can be found here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/416801-7-little-weeks-sadness-xv109-today-2.html

[Albert Driver]

Myself, the Nav and the GE were given bollocking for not standing up to the two arseholes who misled us - a lesson that has stayed with me for the remainder of my career.

Och! Don't fret about it. They did you a favour in the long run. It's part of "growing up" in a crew environment.
I doubt there's anyone hasn't "gone along", regretted it and learned from it to benefit later. You had the misfortune to do it rather publicly, that's all.

Survive and learn.

[CoffmanStarter]

So have the Top Brass attempted to contact/invite former VC10 Air and Ground Crew to attend, if they can, to mark the passing of the old ladies this coming Friday ?

[NutLoose]

There is a small "open day" last opportunity for the public to see the Ten, Tristar and Original Herks together before they retire, meet and greet etc, look around them, but no flying.... but as far as ex Crews and Engineers I pass, I was tempted to apply for a place on the day there is, but thought it would be better for those that may never get a chance to see them at all to go as i've had the opportunities they never got, after all they paid for them. So I did not apply, shame really I will miss it, but from some of the post i have read a lot of people were taking their kids etc, so sounds like a good PR deal.

For details see

http://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/522174-info-brize-norton-photocall-enthusiast-day-vc10-tristar-c130-sunday-22-09-2013-a.html

[moggiee]

Yes the RAF had two, some of the Civi's had 4 thrust reversers
If memory serves me right, prototypes had 4, production models just 2 - it didn't need any more than that.

Och! Don't fret about it. They did you a favour in the long run. It's part of "growing up" in a crew environment.
I doubt there's anyone hasn't "gone along", regretted it and learned from it to benefit later. You had the misfortune to do it rather publicly, that's all.

Survive and learn.
It was certainly a good learning experience! However, like many such events, facts do appear to have mutated during re-telling :)

Hmmmm, damaged tyre spotted during two turnrounds and ignored by crew. That's not unlucky........BGG
Nor is it fact - the tyre was absolutely fine at Gardemoen and appears to have been damaged during takeoff there or landing at Leuchars. However, both of those events appeared to have been perfectly normal.

[Ubehagligpolitiker]

The BOAC double engine failure was on take off from JFK - one went bang and took t'other out. Max all up weight and an arse puckering ride round Jamaica Bay before a safe landing. (See post 358 on Misc. Forums - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/misc-forums-4/)).

[NutLoose]

Posted on the Flypast forum.

Not seen this posted anywhere else, so apologies if it is.Taken from the RAFA youth page on facebook.

Below are the details of the FINAL VC10 sortie/flypasts on Friday 20th September (TOMORROW)

The last two VC10 aircraft (ZA147 and ZA150) will conduct their final air-to-air refuelling sortie, then diverge to carry out fly pasts of various locations around the UK.The aircraft are expected to fly according to the following schedule (all timings are local):

ZA147 –

12.20 – Newcastle

12.40 – Warton

13.05 – RAF Coningsby (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)

13.15 – RAF Marham (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)

13.35 – Birmingham

ZA150 –

12.35 – RAF Lossiemouth (VC10 will be accompanied by a GR4)

12.55 - RAF Leuchars (VC10 will be accompanied by a Typhoon)

13.15 – Prestwick

Both aircraft are expected to return to Brize Norton by 13.45 for a final fly past at 14.00.

All times are local, and subject to change, based on the conditions of the day and aircraft availability.

[Albert Driver]

The BOAC double engine failure was on take off from JFK - one went bang and took t'other out. Max all up weight and an arse puckering ride round Jamaica Bay before a safe landing. (See post 358 on Misc. Forums - PPRuNe Forums).

If you're going to refer to a post, Ube, it's useful to read it, together with any replies.

The event you refer to was not a full double engine failure (there were others involving BOAC VC10s that certainly were).

[NutLoose]

ZA150 needs to go tech and divert into Kinloss ;)

[knarfw]

Overflight of Stanley on last flight back to UK - 2 Sep 13. Not my pic so have posted a link.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1240044_10151704859763500_429734697_n.jpg

[MrBernoulli]

So, are any of you pukes going to the 'VC10 End Of An Era' dinner in Witney, today, Friday 20 September? Last one in the bar is a big girl's blouse! See you there! :ok:

[SRENNAPS]

Wish I could make it:O

Somebody make sure they get some pics on here of the last flight please:ok::ok:

P.S. Good luck to all involved in the flights. I hope it all goes really well and the final celebrations are equal to the fantastic service the this most beautiful aircraft and all those that have flown or worked on her.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:

[Al R]

Signing off.

BBC News - Vickers VC10 jetliners fly last mission from RAF Brize Norton (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-24165590)

[CoffmanStarter]

BEagle old chap ... If you've been invited to hop over the fence and pop down to Brize today ... Some pics would be great :ok:

[The Curator]

As a senior FE Instructor on the TriStar posted to the VC10 in January 2000, it was no secret that my own opinion of the VC10 was that it was well past its 'sell by ' date even then. I also found it rather "strange" the manner in which the Flight Deck crew operated. In my opinion I found it rather 'old school' shall we say. Notwithstanding the above, I had a great deal of fun on my tour there (C Mk 1 only) and would like to add that 10 Sqn could certainly teach a lesson to two to others about man management. Although delighted to return to the TriStar in 2003 I would like to pass on my thanks and best wishes to all the good friends I made during my time on the aircraft. I had a ball, had some great laughs, met some super guys and girls - and broke down in places I hadn't even heard of. I had the honour of flying with some real gents whose opinion I greatly respected.
Good luck to you all and possibly see some of you at Eynsham Hall in November.
P.S. I can be at Brize within two and a half hours. I have a chainsaw if any help is needed.......

[Ivor Fynn]

As a former GR1/4 driver, I have great memories of the Funbus; Dets,Tanking, Airshows and the like. Took me to some great places and some that were sh!te. Met and worked with some great crews who were ever flexible and professional in trying circumstances - my thanks to all who operated the VC10.

The last great aircraft with draughtsman's curves.

A sad day.

Ivor

[BEagle]

Both VC10Ks now airborne on their last operational sorties....

[Groundbased]

Is there a way to track these on flightradar 24?

[MSOCS]

Live Air Traffic radar | Heathrow Airport Information (http://www.heathrow-london.co.uk/airport/live-air-traffic-radar#)

MADRAS 53 - currently in the Lichfield Radar Corridor as MADRS53

[Opsbeatch]

Sorry to be nerdy but it's showing MADRS53 as a Voyager...?

OB

[MSOCS]

It also shows the platform belonging to 'Maple Air Services' which is clearly false....

The data shown (beyond callsign) isn't necessarily accurate. If anyone here does know the c/s of either of the 'Vickers Funbus' it might provide confirmation.

[MSOCS]

OB, I think you're right. MADRS53 is flowing back via the Lich RC after tanking in TL8. Probably Voyager after all.

Does VC10 carry ADS-B? If not, it probably accounts for not showing on the various radar sites online.

[NutLoose]

What rankles with me is Moravia at Kinloss wanted to give one a home and though they tried to raise the funds they never made it, so a part of our heritage will be scrapped for peanuts.

Currently posted on the Flypast forums..


This has come through from BAPC Secretary and is reproduced with his blessing:

A Boeing 727 has been offered free to a good home by DHL.

All you need is a runway capable of landing an aircraft of this size.

This is very urgent and needs to be agreed by the end of next week before its airworthiness runs out.

Delivery will also be free and the aircraft is in a cargo role so if you are interested, please contact me as quickly as possible.

Brian

email Brian Dixon - secretarybapc at btconnect.com (insert @ in place of "at")

Roger Smith.


Sort of puts the UK PLC to shame.

[SRENNAPS]

Well i am very sad today:{:{:{:{

But I would like to say a big thank you to everybody that has contributed to this thread and kept it here on the front page to the day of the last flight.

Some absolutely facinating stories :D:D:D:D

A great tribute to a great and wonderful aircraft :O

[TLDNMCL]

I only had a three year association with the "10", but it remains in my mind as a lovely, sleek, powerful machine that performed a variety of roles for a large percentage of service personnel and their families, (regardless of whether they were light blue, dark blue , green, brown or sometimes no discernible uniform at all shhhhhh!), over the last forty several years.

Happy memories. Bloody good fun to fly on when practically empty too! All that available power and minimal payload...:D:D:D:D:D

[Just This Once...]

Ah the VC10, the first (and hopefully last!) aircraft I qualified as a trolley dolly on. I remain proud of this unexpected qualification that adorns the front of my logbook with pride.

The VC10 crowd made me feel very welcome and I just about met their demands for feeding as we jollied around most of the friendly airports in South America. The pinny with my rank on it was a nice touch. Never did get used to all the paperwork and I think I tried the patience of 1 or 2 customs agents!

Great aircraft, great crews, great service (when I was on the other end of the basket) and great times!

:D

[DozyWannabe]

The old girl deserves a decent send-off. I wonder how many of those who designed and built her, left despondent when BOAC more-or-less washed their hands of her - despite being designed to their spec - would have thought that she'd rack up a total of 50 years in the air nonetheless?

Much kudos to the RAF crews who flew her and kept her flying for that time, and allowing one of the most timeless airliner designs in history a chance to prove the doubters wrong.

[NutLoose]

A BOAC that when realising the Pax loved them and requested to fly on them went back to ask for more, unfortunately too late.

[Shiny10]

I was sent to Dakar with four hours notice to look after the VC10s during a skirmish down south.

One Ten came in for crew change heading north with the Co-pilots window completely crazed. Captain of on-coming crew asked "How long to fix"?

"Three days I'm afraid"

"Don't worry about it, bloody co-pilots blind anyway". :D

Next event- Off going crew reported that the No 4 Thrust reverser clamshell doors didn't go to the reverse position; no reverse thrust, no light but the RPM increased. This indicated serious mechanical failure of the baulk stop. On going captain asked how long. I told him that it would take about four hours as it is dificult to get to. His reply "He must have been seeing things, it's only an indication problem and we are taking it" :D

I also worked the Hercs due to my past experience and they were an absolute pain to get off the ground, I think the crews were getting a bit tired, but that's another story! :(

[DozyWannabe]

A BOAC that when realising the Pax loved them and requested to fly on them went back to ask for more, unfortunately too late.

And would henceforth be forever known in certain circles as "Buy Only American Cr*p". ;)

[NutLoose]

Now it's out of service rumour has it OPEC have reduced their output :p

[moggiee]

Now it's out of service rumour has it OPEC have reduced their output :p
Sounds about right

[DozyWannabe]

Sounds about right

I've often wondered how well a rejig of the airframe with 2xRB211s in place of the four Conways (following on from the testbed experiments) would have worked. Unfortunately I suspect there were too few airframes and too little money to make it a viable proposition.

I still say said airframe had so much potential, given the time it was developed, that it was bordering on criminal to have set it aside so early.

I'm glad that so much of the expertise wasn't entirely wasted and lives on in the Airbus projects, but I still despair at our ability at the time to unerringly shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Chris Griffin]

Sad day indeed. Did 9 years with the old girl and am devastated to have missed her final sortie. Mr B - Unfortunately stuck in Liberia so won't be able to make the dinner tonight but please have a beer or 2 for me and send regards to snake, smartie, coconut head and Phil (1eng approach) king.

Thoughts with you all

[NutLoose]

Final Flight of the VC10 (http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafbrizenorton/newsweather/index.cfm?storyid=58BD42BF-5056-A318-A880C5C1DE924BDA)

[DozyWannabe]

Now it's out of service rumour has it OPEC have reduced their output :p

They'll have to ramp it up again for those bloody Rivet Joints that Liam Fox made us buy from the Yanks to replace the MRA4. :E

[SRENNAPS]

Nutloose,

Thanks for the link and a massive thank you for your contribution to this thread. You and I worked on these aircraft. We can look at all the pictures and know that we had touched them, cared for them and loved them. To us it really is end of an era of something special.

Cheers mate, I raise my glass to you tonight, a fellow VC10 aircraft engineer and of course the VC10 itself:D:D:D:D

[Dan Winterland]

Really wanted to be there tonight, but couldn't get the time off. Have a good night everyone!

[NutLoose]

Seems everyone was invited bar the ex engineers.

[NutLoose]

Srennaps

My pleasure, a timeless design and a pleasure to have worked on, the highlight of a 35 year plus career in aviation.

Have toasted its departure tonight and I am working on going to Brunty to see the final flight, sad sad days.

And sadder that the final flight to Brunty couldn't have been into a museum such as the Moravia one at Kinloss.

Sigh.... It's dusty in here.

[DozyWannabe]

@NutLoose:

Ditto SRENNAPS. Who knows - this may end up being a treasure trove of information in the vein of the Tech Log Concorde thread in times to come...

[NutLoose]

Thank you, but as with you all, simply a small cog in a big thread, and one had to put something to keep it up there.

You ALL deserve to applaud yourselves, and we all have one thing in common...

EX VC 10

And no one can ever take that away from us. You can all hold your heads up with pride and remember the things we did with this remarkable aircraft.
Both the good times and the bad, 47 years in service says it all, a fitting epitaph to a great Aircraft.




..

[SRENNAPS]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Goodnight VC10 :ok::ok::ok::ok:

[ICM]

I suppose I can now finally say farewell to my youth! Argosy, Belfast, C-141 all already gone and now, much later than I might ever have imagined, the VC 10. C'est la vie!

[TLDNMCL]

Let's face it, the aircrew know how this lovely old thing behaved at work, (and occasionally misbehaved), and the groundcrew knew what a bugger she could be to nail back together. Nonetheless, it's apparent that the old bird is regarded with great affection by all involved; With love, ex-groundbound dirty , filthy rigger 😘

[Tom Sawyer]

There was an "unofficial" 101 Sqn Engineers reunion at the end of August in Brize village organised online via Facebook and word of mouth. Quite a few from the 90's / Gulf War I / Incirlik / Bahrain era were there, although I couldn't make it due to my latest detachment on the other side of the world. But a pity that there was no "official" reunion event organised as these days it is quite easy to track people down.

Certainly the 'frame where I learnt my trade and have great memories of getting covered in fuel changing wing pumps, cabin compressor changes, butty boxes, CSD's, linvars, HDU's & pods - hose and drogues, oil consumption EGR's on the tubes, FCU changes and rigging, slam accel checks, skydrol mist in the boiler room......double donk drop, up on sticks out in the bondu etc....Can't remember the trips these days as I've got too much blood in my alcohol stream!

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice one :ok:

[MrBernoulli]

Well, that was a fun evening last night at the VC10 farewell dinner. What a gathering - crammed to the bulkheads, it was! So many familiar faces from times past, almost too many to say hello again to. I suspect that the quantity of wine, port and beer consumed must have surprised the venue proprietors a bit. :ok: Some well known names were in tatters before the guest of honour even delivered his speech.

Over £8000 raised for the RAF Benevolent fund, from the after-dinner auction of VC10-related items. A retired training skipper drew cheers and admiration for his very determined bids to secure a rather nicely mounted VC10 Captain's control yoke, complete with Vickers badge mounted on the centre pivot point. ;)

Well done to all who planned and executed the Op Order for the evening - a worthwhile gathering that will be remembered for a very long time ........ :D :D :D

[Coff, sorry, I managed to delete my post ..... trying again ...... must have been a very good night, ha ha]

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice one :ok: :D

[moggiee]

I've often wondered how well a rejig of the airframe with 2xRB211s in place of the four Conways (following on from the testbed experiments) would have worked. Unfortunately I suspect there were too few airframes and too little money to make it a viable proposition.

I still say said airframe had so much potential, given the time it was developed, that it was bordering on criminal to have set it aside so early.

Rolls Royce offered the IAE V2500 in about 1986 - the MoD said no because the VC10 was due to retire in 2000...........to be replaced by FSTA

[NutLoose]

Wasn't the V2500 one not the full engine but the cores minus the fan, if memory serves me correctly and would have been three in a triangular layout either side ?

[NutLoose]

There was an "unofficial" 101 Sqn Engineers reunion at the end of August in Brize village organised online

In the history of the VC10, 101 though, were just a dribble in a very big puddle, a lot had gone before :ok:;)


.

[moggiee]

Wasn't the V2500 one not the full engine but the cores minus the fan, if memory serves me correctly and would have been three in a triangular layout either side ?
It was my understanding that it was 4 x V2500 - which were each rated at about 25,000Lb of thrust, giving a useful 10,000Lb thrust increase over the Conways and a projected minimum 30% fuel saving.

The V2500 is a little bit bigger than a Conway but not hugely so (it's used on the A320, for example) - I believe that the engine hangers would have had to be re-worked but that it would have been a reasonably straightforward swap (no worse than the CFM56 being fitted to the 707/KC135/E3).

[NutLoose]

And they would have paid for themselves many times over in fuel savings, who knows they might have still been in service.

Must admit I also thought a pair of RB211's would have been efficient.

[moggiee]

2 RB211s would have been fine except that they could have posed problems on oceanic flights if the RAF was following ETOPS rules in the same way as civilian operators. 4 engines were less limiting

[stilton]

Why would the Military need, or have any obligation to follow civilian
ETOPS rules :confused:



They certainly didn't follow any for noise :eek:

[Davita]

As an instructor in the RAF VC10 sim we had to similate the procedure for crew activity prior to ditching.
To save time we wrote a programme which meant the crew would leave Brize for Gander/Goose Bay (I forget). After many faults, during start and T.O which we would tick-off the training sheet, we would re-position the crew half-way across the Atlantic close to a weather ship. The briefing was we would cause numerous engine failures where they would apply the appropriate drills, so we could tick them as complete, then we would leave the crew with only one engine and thus they would carry out the flight side of a ditching drill.
On one occasion this crew were descending on one engine at full power and the Air Eng was dumping fuel as per....when the Capt. said "Stop dumping!".
The VC10 had levelled out at full power! A quick check of the fuel indicated they could still fly and they then established they could make it to the coast of Ireland with the prevailing wind.
As instructors we were flummoxed and, as there was another training session later, we needed get this one finished so we reversed the tailwind :E
However, after establishing that the computer and the condition were accurate we reviewed our training to include the possibility of flying on one engine to a better location to land or ditch.
Amazing Aircraft.

[moggiee]

Why would the Military need, or have any obligation to follow civilian
ETOPS rules :confused::
Because only an idiot would ignore them!

We basically followed civilian rules across the board (in peacetime transport ops) including noise abatement procedures

[moggiee]

For anyone who's interested, the folks on the VC10derness forum have organised a second run of commemorative polo shirts. Orders need to be placed and paid for by 12th October.

Details here: A Little VC10derness ? View topic - VC10 Tribute Shirts - NEW ORDER!! (http://www.vc10.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=815&p=4838#p4838)

[NutLoose]

I would have ordered one, but bank transfers are a pain in the butt to do.

[SRENNAPS]

Thanks for that :D:D

[moggiee]

I would have ordered one, but bank transfers are a pain in the butt to do.

I'm living in the Middle East and the charges will be the same for me whether I sent £1 or £100 so I'd be happy for you to send me money via Paypal that I can then pass on in a transfer.

[moggiee]

We all know that the Airfix VC10 K2 model has been out of production for some time but I would imagine that, with the retirement of the aeroplane, there would be quite a bit of interest in seeing it on the market again.

Airfix have a contact form allowing you to get in touch to make product suggestions. Could I urge you all to use it to ask Airfix to do the decent thing and relaunch the kit? There's nothing to lose and it costs nothing

thanks

Scale Plastic Model Kits by Airfix - Send us an enquiry (http://www.airfix.com/contact-us/)

[NutLoose]

PM me an address to send some monies for a shirt :)

Filled out the enquiry too.

[moggiee]

Message sent

[Exascot]

We all know that the Airfix VC10 K2 model has been out of production for some time but I would imagine that, with the retirement of the aeroplane, there would be quite a bit of interest in seeing it on the market again.

Why on earth should anyone want a K2? I would like a shiny one :cool:

[NutLoose]

Then rub it hard.

You cannot have one, they used the standard mould to produce the K2, so it was altered, something that cannot be reversed, you would need new moulds and they are not cheap.

[moggiee]

Why on earth should anyone want a K2? I would like a shiny one :cool:
On mine I cut off the pods/HDU, filled the holes and repainted it in grey/white with a blue "flash" - just like God intended the VC10 to be. I put the lettering and XV registration on with Letraset and it looked quite good

[vc10617]

I was at Brize 72-92. I worked it out roughly that's 40,000 man hours. 40 hour week and it wasn't! As far as models go. Anigrand do a 1/72nd VC10 kit. I bought one last year but I haven't started it yet. Its a bit big! Needs a load of work to get rid of the mistakes.
The RAF chose the VC10 as far back as 1962 after the Vickers V1000 and then the VC7 were cancelled and a long range transport was still needed. The RAF order increased when BOAC cancelled at half the 35 Super VC10s signed up for.

[Jhieminga]

In a thread on my website's forum (http://www.vc10.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=831) we've been discussing VC10 records and when going through the FAI database I found these three:
FAI Record File Num #5386 Direct Link (http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=5386)
Status: ratified - current record
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1p (Landplanes: take off weight 100 000 to 150 000 kg)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 3 : turbo-jet
Type of record: Speed over a recognised course
Performance: 827.55 km/h
Date: 1987-12-22
Course/Location: Ascension Island - London (United Kingdom)
Claimant John Knapp (GBR)
Aeroplane: BAe (British Aerospace) VC-10C Mk1 (XV-109)
Engines: 4 Rolls Royce Conway

FAI Record File Num #16403 Direct Link (http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=16403)
Status: ratified - current record
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1p (Landplanes: take off weight 100 000 to 150 000 kg)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 3 : turbo-jet
Type of record: Speed over a recognised course
Performance: 848.08 km/h
Date: 1987-12-20
Course/Location: London (United Kingdom) - Port Stanley (Falklands UK)
Claimant Chris Lumb (GBR)
Aeroplane: BAe (British Aerospace) VC-10C Mk1
Engines: 4 Rolls Royce Conway

FAI Record File Num #16401 Direct Link (http://www.fai.org/fai-record-file/?recordId=16401)
Status: ratified - current record
Region: World
Class: C (Powered Aeroplanes)
Sub-Class: C-1p (Landplanes: take off weight 100 000 to 150 000 kg)
Category: Not applicable
Group: 3 : turbo-jet
Type of record: Speed over a recognised course
Performance: 824.35 km/h
Date: 1987-12-19
Course/Location: London (United Kingdom) - Ascension Island
Claimant John Halstead (GBR)
Aeroplane: BAe (British Aerospace) VC-10C Mk1
Engines: 4 Rolls Royce ConwayOn the Bruntingthorpe Aviation site (http://www.bruntingthorpeaviation.com/news/latest/last-vc10-flight/) they state that XR808 is "holder of the Blue Ribband for the fastest crossing of the Atlantic by a sub-sonic aircraft." We've been trying to confirm this but are unable to find more about this record. Anyone with more info about the above records or XR808's achievement?