And you thought our defence procurement was bad? Spanish practices ...

[airborne_artist]

£2 billion Spanish navy submarine will sink to bottom of sea - Telegraph :\
(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/10073951/2-billion-Spanish-navy-submarine-will-sink-to-bottom-of-sea.html)

[Cows getting bigger]

I understand they have approached Archimedes with a 'come out of retirement' golden handshake.

[dervish]

And you thought our defence procurement was bad?

We KNOW it is. At least the Spanish didn't let the contract knowing the kit would be gash as soon as it was delivered.

[P6 Driver]

If it would help, I could compile a list of people to crew the Spanish submarine if they just want to give it a go and see what happens.

[BEagle]

...at least 75 tons overweight, an excess that could compromise its ability to surface after submerging.

'Compromise its ability to surface after submerging' - what an amusing euphemism....:\ '...an excess that means it will sink' is surely more accurate?

It's almost as if 't Bungling Baron had a hand in the design....:(

[onetrack]

I trust Navantia haven't made similar "miscalculations" in the construction of the hulls of our two new LHD's. :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMAS_Canberra_(LHD_02)

http://www.news.com.au/technology/exclusive-report-inside-hmas-canberra/story-e6frfro0-1226639639652

[Rosevidney1]

I trust Navantia haven't made similar "miscalculations" in the construction of the hulls of our two new LHD's. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/sowee.gif

I am not a Grammar Nazi but I feel that instead of the single word 'trust' you might add 'devoutly hope!'

[Agaricus bisporus]

I am not a Grammar Nazi but I feel that instead of the single word 'trust' you might add 'devoutly hope!'

Clearly not, as this has nothing whatsoever to do with grammar...

[NutLoose]

Surely nailing an extension into it will also add weight, I presume you will have to nail in two, one in front and one aft of the coning tower to maintain the C of G. Hope they get the figures right the next time around :)

[November4]

Sink to the bottom of the sea


Isn't that what submarines are meant to do? :ok:

[AGS Man]

I heard that it was fitted with a glass bottom... So their new Navy can have a really good look at there old Navy!

[Corrona]

The Spanish are good at food and....er...? It is not a coincidence that it was VW that took over Seat cars, not the other way round!

[BEagle]

The Spanish are good at food and....er...?

From my experience, the expression 'Fabricado en España' translates as 'Does not work'.....:rolleyes:

[onetrack]

I was deeply concerned about seeing our latest RAN LHD hull arrive on a barge! :eek: - but it appears that it does actually float. At least, it does, until they get all the superstructure welded into place - and then, it will probably turn turtle!! :eek:

I'm reminded of a certain Italian shipbuilder, around 1907, who launched a new ship down the slipway with great fanfare. The hull slid into the water with a splash - and promptly turned turtle, to their eternal embarrassment!! :ooh:

[Dysonsphere]

I was deeply concerned about seeing our latest RAN LHD hull arrive on a barge! - but it appears that it does actually float. At least, it does, until they get all the superstructure welded into place - and then, it will probably turn turtle!!

I'm reminded of a certain Italian shipbuilder, around 1907, who launched a new ship down the slipway with great fanfare. The hull slid into the water with a splash - and promptly turned turtle, to their eternal embarrassment!!

LOL Ive seen that pic was scrapped on site but I think the enginies were reused.

[Agaricus bisporus]

Well, before we crow too much let's remember our very own R101 which had exactly the same problem - it wouldn't fly.

Solution? Graft an extension into the hull to add extra buoyancy...

Perhaps it's instructive that the private industry built R100 (the Capitalist airship) performed as predicted and on cost whereas the government (mis)managed R101 (the Socialist airship) was a complete dogs dinner from beginning to it's wretched end.

[sisemen]

was a complete dogs dinner from beginning to it's wretched end.

Be fair. It got some wonderful publicity.

[Pontius Navigator]

Surely nailing an extension into it will also add weight, I presume you will have to nail in two, one in front and one aft of the coning tower to maintain the C of G.

Nut, I think that is half the problem. Now they just need another one to correct the CofG. As long as they weld the dogs bollocks on at the right end.

[NutLoose]

They could always buy those super quiet diesel jobs we sold to Canada without ever using them, I believe they would probably pay the Spanish to take them away, they haven't had a lot of success with them.

[Milo Minderbinder]

"nailing" an extension in could be unfortunate....surely the nail holes would leak?

[Shack37]

From my experience, the expression 'Fabricado en España' translates as 'Does not work'.....:rolleyes:


Presumably from long experience and with many examples.:rolleyes:

[Agaricus bisporus]

"nailing" an extension in could be unfortunate....

Its screwed up enough as it is, but whatever floats your boat...

Ok, I know, I know. I'll get my coat.

[LowObservable]

The story sounds a bit fishy, so to speak. The weight growth is about three per cent, and most submarines on the surface look like they have more than three per cent of their mass above the water.

[onetrack]

I'm sure the Spanish will get to the bottom of the problem soon enough. :)

[Dryce]

The story sounds a bit fishy, so to speak. The weight growth is about three per cent, and most submarines on the surface look like they have more than three per cent of their mass above the water.


Depends.

If you have 10% buoyancy then 3% represents a big chunk out of that.

You need headroom to deal with trimming in normal day to day operation and also to deal with stores and weapons.

However the other issue is where this excess weight is located. Assuming it's affecting CoG then that means an even bigger impact aft or forward and more significantly some nasty trim problems. You can't just stick some extra weight at the other end to retrim because that eats more out of your overall buoyancy.

Longer term - if they've 'consumed' this extra weight so early on it gives them less headroom to add bits and pieces of kit over the lifetime of the boat.