When do you become a mercenary?

[Stn120]

A civilian friend (and ex military colleague) of mine is working on a contract abroad for a foreign military air force. Not a problem in itself, lots of civilians work as contractors to the military.

But when does being a civilian contractor become a mercenary?

They have been asked to fly (helicopters) on armed missions.These missions have on board a machine gun and ammunition. The whole operation is monitored from the ground by an operations centre via data link. Command and Control is from the Ops Centre. Part of the mission is counter piracy, lookingfor and stopping surface vessels from a neighbouring country, from interfering with and stealing from vessels of the host country.

At times the crew can consist of a mix of military and civilians, but the worst case being:

A civilian Captain, Co-Pilot and Air crewman, with the only military person on board being an observer who is operating the electro optical devices (IR/TV). and acting as the link between the ops centre and the aircraft.

The rules of engagement for stopping the piracy vaguely cover; firing warning shots, immobilising the craft and if that fails, stopping the craft from escaping. The orders to open fire come from the Operations centre.

So are these guys’ mercenaries if they carry out a deliberate action, or even fly on armed missions?

As an ex-military helicopter crewman and ex- Air Gunnery Instructor myself, ultimately, it was always the responsibility of the person pulling the trigger who had to satisfy himself (or herself) that the rules of engagement were met (threat to life, correct sighting/targeting solution, fire aimed shots, minimum force, there is no other way of stopping it etc.).However, the aircraft captain was also responsible for action taken by his aircraft and crew and who is supposed to issue the orders.

If the civilian crew decline the mission or do not carry out a given order to open fire, they will more than likely be sacked for doing so.If they carry out the orders, then they could be subjected to an appearance in an international court facing very severe charges, particularly if there is loss of life or collateral damage.

Over to the floor for your inputs, what do you think? What would you do if you were on this contract?

Me? I think I'd be looking for alternative employment smartish.

[Kitbag]

Collins 1988 (only one to hand)


mercenary adj 1. influenced by greed or gain. 2. of or relating to a mercenary or mercenaries. ~n., pl. -naries. 3. a man hired to fight for a foreign army etc. 4. Rare. any person who works solely for pay.


From the above yes, your chum is, and should be prepared for the consequences if he does or is associated with bad stuff. Equally I guess his financial package is fairly decent too so does that assuage his conscience or balance the risks for him?

[Courtney Mil]

If he's comfortable with the missions and the ROE, finds the level of risk acceptable and his pay is enough to reward his efforts and to cover all the above, where's the issue. Grown man, knows the implications, it's entirely his decission.

[alisoncc]

When do you become a mercenary?When the MoD significantly increase pay scales, before that you are just doing it for the fun and not the money. :D

[ORAC]

No, he's not. Under the United Nations Mercenary Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Mercenary_Convention) he doesn't meet the criteria for Clause 1 or Clause 2(a).

[Trim Stab]

If the civilian crew decline the mission or do not carry out a given order to open fire, they will more than likely be sacked for doing so.If they carry out the orders, then they could be subjected to an appearance in an international court facing very severe charges, particularly if there is loss of life or collateral damage.


Well if the worse that can happen is be sacked, what's the problem?

Also, if the mission is UN-sanctioned anti-piracy, they are very unlikely to be prosecuted if they overstep the ROE. I'm in a similar situation - was instructing as a civilian contractor, then the squadron got deployed on a UN sanctioned mission, so I volunteered to go with them.

[Stn120]

Trim Stab - As far as I know, this is not a UN sanctioned anti-piracy job.

There are many differing interpretations of Mercenary on the web.
Collins dictionary is where I initially went but it's not cut and dried.

The grey areas are "carrying out the action for financial gain" if they are being paid to do the job, then it could be classed as financial gain.

It is not an armed conflict, but could be classed as this when shots are fired. (even warning shots).

It could spark an international incident in an area that is already unstable.

Maybe they might not be classed as mercenaries but they would certainly be out on their own, I doubt they would receive any support from official sources or sympathy from dear old blighty.

[BEagle]

But when does being a civilian contractor become a mercenary?

When employed as a 'Sponsored Reservist'?

[Heathrow Harry]

" I doubt they would receive any support from official sources or sympathy from dear old blighty"

anyone who has ever lived/worked overseas knows that that is the case even if you're Mother Teresa

the UK is infamous for the lack of concern it shows for it's citizens overseas..................

[Arty Fufkin]

Sponsored reservists? How so Beags? What's the difference between them and the TA/ Auxilliaries? Surely they're not mercenaries as well?

[XV208 SNOOPY]

Beags,
some Sponsored Reserve Units have been around a lot longer in HM Reserve Forces, before they were changed into SR.

[Dak Man]

.........after your bank manager has sent you Birthday and Christmas cards.

[Agaricus bisporus]

By any test of reasonableness getting directly involved in shooting at people as a civilian must be questionable at best.

The criteria that applies, far from any definitions on the web, would be the ever-fuzzy international law and perhaps UN charter. A decision on those if it ever came to be contested would take years to resolve during which said civvie would probably be languishing in some fever-infested hell-hole in one of the areas of the world where he would fervently wish the FCO were a little more caring...and his cell-mates a little less well hung.

Sounds like a walk-away no-brainer to me.

[pohm1]

When do you become a mercenary?

When you are neither a missionary, or a misfit.

Working around around the world, expats come as one of the "three M's";)

P1

[dctyke]

Easy answer, only the enemy use mercenaries. Us (the good guys) are host nation support!

[racedo]

Saffer friend who served in UK forces regarded himself as a mercenary.

His own definiton "I am a soldier of my country when serving to protect my country or in its name as laid down by its laws and government"........... His use of soldier defined anybody serving in Navy and Airforce as well as Land Forces.

Serving in the name of any other country he saw himself (and others) as a mercenary doing it either for money / citizenship or both.

No doubt this would be a controversial view as he viewed anybody serving in UK military that was not born in UK or who had not lived in UK for years before joining up as a Mercenary.

He didn't see it as good or bad just he had a clear black and white viewpoint.

[Milo Minderbinder]

consider those working in the past in Oman for Airworks or other companies....were they mercenaries?

[Willard Whyte]

I was always a merc. I wouldn't have stayed in 20+ years for anything other than the cash, the job was never* a source of joy.

Sure, I worked with some good people, but there are good people where I work now - being a decent chap or chappess isn't a club exclusively for military folk.

* an exaggeration perhaps, but the enjoyment came from visiting foreign places (not including the middle east), rather than the act of getting there. Frankly the job was s*** whilst in the UK.

[Surplus]

29 Nov 2002

[Tiger_mate]

The trouble with air to ground gunnery from a helicopter is that you are usually using a ground based machine gun modified for use in the air. That is all well and good but it is an area suppression weapon rather then an accurate weapon. Lawyers will tell you that you are responsible for every bullet including ricochets and murder is murder (in the UK as we do not have homicide in UK Law).

The Lee Clegg affair demonstrates how messy these things can become even if 'delivered' in good faith. I would do it myself but only if I was 100% certain that the Law of the host country would not become an enemy of mine. It is very easy for Mission Focus to lead you into a false sense of security and that is why human shields were invented.

[Wander00]

When "your" side loses?

[Ant T]

Milo - consider those working in the past in Oman for Airworks or other companies....were they mercenaries?

My Dad was one of those in the early 70's, and he definitely refers to his time as a "mercenary" pilot. He also always refers to it as the best time of his life......... :)

[Stn120]

Ant T
the difference being that there was less publicity and litigation in those days, you could get away with a lot more. Whereas today, big brother and the media are everywhere and you are a lot more accountable for your actions.

[Hammer Head Too]

Member of the British Liaison Team (BLT) in Kuwait up until the invasion. We handed in our 1250, got a KAF ID, wore their uniform but there was never a MOU signed between the two governments. Where would that have left us in an international court of law?

[racedo]

Member of the British Liaison Team (BLT) in Kuwait up until the invasion. We handed in our 1250, got a KAF ID, wore their uniform but there was never a MOU signed between the two governments. Where would that have left us in an international court of law?

Think the term is plausible deniability and claiming you deserted while doing everything to free you.

[Flag Track]

Just looked up the UN definition on Wikipedia, dunno what that would make the Airwork guys in Oman or years ago in Yemen, I thought if one was carrying or operating weapons in the face of your employers enemies as opposed to just transporting troops or fixing things that would be different?

[Pontius Navigator]

I was always a merc. I wouldn't have stayed in 20+ years for anything other than the cash, the job was never* a source of joy.

As a soldier of the State you swear an oath of allegiance to your ruler or country.

As a mercenary you accept the offer of the job and take the monies. If you then decided that the game isn't worth a candle then you can walk away not even switching off the lights.

If you were captured by an adversary that abided by the Geneva Convention your State compatriots would be treated as POWs. As a civilian bearing arms you might be tried, found guilty and shot.

Simples.

[Ant T]

I thought if one was carrying or operating weapons in the face of your employers enemies as opposed to just transporting troops or fixing things that would be different?

Dad was transporting troops and equipment and doing casevacs etc - but he was always carrying a pistol and an AK47 in the helicopter - for self defence if shot down (which he was on one occasion, including getting a toe shot off:ooh: )

[26er]

Wot about the Gurkhas?

[Pontius Navigator]

Yup, mercenaries, everyone. But no different from any other foreign national that is enrolled in a recognised State force and swearing allegiance to the State.

The difference is that the true mercenary answers only to himself and his bank manager.

[SASless]

Any time your loyalty is to your paycheck and not doing things "right".

Cut one corner chasing the money....and you have sold your Soul.

[Willard Whyte]

As a soldier of the State you swear an oath of allegiance to your ruler or country

I didn't change, the country did - and the ruler couldn't do anything about it.

[Pontius Navigator]

Mein Herr, that is a whole new ball game ( to mix metaphors).

[Hotelpresident]

When you fight for money!

[Finningley Boy]

When you're paid cash in hand!

FB

[Dr Jekyll]

Were the international brigade in the Spanish civil war mercenaries?

[Pontius Navigator]

When you're paid cash in hand!

FB

No. In fact it was at Finningley that the men were all paid cash in hand.

I went to Accounts and drew out the cash, just over £1,000. The men were paraded in three ranks outside the hangar. I was sat at a trestle table and the FS called each man forward announcing rank, name and last three. In turn they saluted and I doled out the cash. Top wack was, I recall, no more than £21.

In a way I regret never having had to conduct that degrading ritual the annual kit inspection. Perhaps the worst of these was the airman's kit inspection in his MQ. Everything laid out on the bed with the 'wife, airman for the use of' as a spare part somewhere around. :)

[parabellum]

In a way I regret never having had to conduct that degrading ritual the
annual kit inspection. Perhaps the worst of these was the airman's kit
inspection in his MQ. Everything laid out on the bed with the 'wife, airman for
the use of' as a spare part somewhere around.


The Army got round that one by making the married guys bring their kit into barracks and using a spare bed space, if none spare then in the gym!

[strake]

The Patrick Mercenary

BBC News - Patrick Mercer: Panorama footage of sting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22738901)

[Pontius Navigator]

PB, same here if they lived off base

[26er]

Re pay parades, as a boy entrant flight commander in the early 60's at the end of each term there was quite a bit of dosh to give out as during the term they were each paid a "standard" weekly sum but as the actual pay due depended on age quite a few of the senior entry when they were about to go on block leave had accrued a considerable amount of back pay. This came in some cases to about £100 or so. Knowing my own fallibility with money I took the precaution of collecting it all from the accountant officer the previous day, putting the individual's pay in an envelope, and come the moment getting him to open the envelope, count his cash and sign for it. It took more time with 115 B/Es but it saved me a lot of worry.

[Wander00]

Continuing the modest thread drift, as the JP on 360 in the mid to late 60s I usually got the pay parade job - and we had RN as well - I remember paying considerable sums in the caps of senior ratings - and the pile of money always seemed to disappear faster than the queue, until right at the end!