CTC Qatar Wings [Archive]

Wirbelsturm

22nd May 2013, 08:52

Training Costs: £105,000 (including all taxes and accommodation)

Selection fee: £210

From experience we suggest you budget £5,000* per year for each year in training. (*excluding your personal travel costs from your home country to attend selection and to commence training)

You will be pleased to hear that we do not require you to make full payment prior to the course commencing

My bold underline!!!!

You must be insane, sorry but the job isn't worth it. £105,000 to live in a sandpit in Doha, tax free but nowhere near cost free, I've been there, wouldn't want to live there! The company is, like many Middle east airlines, 'interesting' to work for if you are non local and, for all of this, you are shelling out £105,000!

Ludicrous.
:=

AstroThom

22nd May 2013, 10:15

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if there's a previous flying hours limit to be eligible to apply to this programme?

Cesc_

23rd May 2013, 20:09

Is there a reason for the lack of interest, thought such an opportunity would have a lot more posts.

Selfmade92

24th May 2013, 01:48

Is there a guaranteed job after the completion of the course, or is it just a flight school marketing thing?

Luke SkyToddler

24th May 2013, 02:30

I would be very interested to hear the pay and conditions on offer for graduates of this program, as I have heard a "rumour" from a couple of my old mates in the sandpit that QR was making a special edition new contract for these guys, that is much lower than the regular F/O package :mad:

I strongly advise anyone applying for / accepting this program, to try and find out EXACTLY what's on offer at the end of it and get it in writing, before you spend your own money.

doz111

24th May 2013, 13:23

The main concerns with this scheme appear to be:

1) The exact terms of employment
2) Being dropped by qatar at some point before achieving 1500 hours

Compared with the EasyJet MPL and BA FPP there is very little precise information on exactly what the terms of your employment would be at the end. If this is yet to be clarified then that is acceptable but I agree that it would be very unwise to part with £105,000 without finding out exactly what your salary and terms would be.

Secondly people on here have suggested that Qatar have been very intolerant of any mistakes made by pilots and are quick to sack people for various things (only what I have read, no personal knowledge). This would be quite a concern as a sacking before you have accrued 1500 hours would leave you with nowhere to go, nontransferable licence and a large debt.

axl76fg

25th May 2013, 19:27

:confused::confused:
Are you insane people nowadays??
105.000£ is too much , so what's the difference with pay2fly? Someone could explain me?

At this point better to fly USa get licence with approx.30k come back and pay TR and LT with job opportunity and I think will be less than 105.000£ in any case!!!!!!

Then You do n ot have any garantee and Qatar is very strict company , strict internal policy , and you could be kiked out in any time loosing all your money and time!
Think...think well and do your search before!:ugh:

contacttower118.2

25th May 2013, 21:15

Are you insane people nowadays??
105.000£ is too much , so what's the difference with pay2fly? Someone could explain me?

Well it's not really any different from the easyJet MPL scheme or the whole host of other "self-sponsored" schemes purveyed by OAA/CTC. Yes the headline price is £15k more (which is a lot I grant you...) but I suspect if you added up all the respective expenses not covered in the other cheaper schemes the difference would narrow a bit. Conceptually it is certainly no different. What would be the deciding factor of ultimate value would be the pay structure afterwards and therefore how long it would take to settle loans vs the pay delivered after qualifying by other schemes.

P2F (in my book anyway...) means paying for the experience of the RHS on a public transport flight when it would otherwise be taken by a qualified and employed first officer.

Big question for most people would be do you want to live in Doha and work for an airline that one hears, at best mixed, reviews of as an employer...

uk24nw

26th May 2013, 10:15

Just a note of caution - the previous CTC Qatar cadets have been over there for more than a year now and have still not flown. Apparently they have now been told they may not fly until 2014. Also, from what I understand they are on reduced pay until they have completed line training.

contacttower118.2

26th May 2013, 10:22

Interesting, can I ask your source and also if they haven't flown what are they doing? :confused:

uk24nw

26th May 2013, 10:44

Hi.

Sources are a couple of guys I trained with. They did their type rating early last year and have not flown yet. They seem to like Qatar and have a good social life but after having been there over a year they are getting pretty bored. They often use staff travel rates to come back to the UK for a break but I understand they can only do this for a certain period due to tax??

I think they can be called at anytime to report in case their line training is brought forward, but at the minute I believe they won't start until the beginning of 2014.

contacttower118.2

26th May 2013, 11:13

That somewhat begs the question if they still have CTC cadets waiting for line training why are they opening a new scheme?

I know they have a lot of aircraft on order at the moment, possibly the delivery delays are making it hard to match aircraft and recruitment needs. Even so a year is quite a long time to waiting in Doha for!

Have they been given a reason?

seymoreskye

26th May 2013, 16:00

A friend I spoke to is one of the CTC guys out there and he is bored! He says it is to do with the lack of instructors out there that they can not fit in the time to do the A320 line training. He was told Feb 2014 he "might" complete line training.

This CTC scheme takes on a bigger risk than usual this time.
Qatar are meant to be Ruthless and unforgiving as employers

FlyingDumbells

28th May 2013, 20:01

You have to pay £210 to CTC for Phase 2 and 3! Easy money for them, I'm sure they accepted everyone's applications.

Selfmade92

29th May 2013, 16:00

Phase 2 and 3 is on the same day and it's only once 210GBP... you make it sound like it's twice 210GBP...

limesoda

29th May 2013, 17:53

As i am still deciding on which route to go, i think i will undergo the assessment anyway, as it still counts as a CTC wings assessment. Good Luck to anyone thinking of doing it :)

turbine100

29th May 2013, 18:10

Qatar is not for everyone. You might want to take a trip out first before spending your money. Also a number of people that are experienced have had issues in the past whilst working for Qatar Airways.

Their is another thread recently regarding someone running into a problem with Qatar and loosing their job. A number of people have had problems that have led to them leaving or found themselves stuck their bored in Doha or not being treated that well by the company for one reason or another and trying to get out.

FlyingDumbells

29th May 2013, 18:44

@Selfmade92 If you had a bill to pay of £210 for an ''airfare and a taxi'' how much would you pay...not confused?

Selfmade92

29th May 2013, 22:58

It's quite different, but doesn't matter. Got invited, for phase 2 really excited, the reason it's so expensive I guess is because it's also in New Zealand.

EDIT: what is the best place to stay? I want to be as close as possible at the location of the assesement as I do not know how well the public transportation system is in Southampton.

AnotherWannabe

30th May 2013, 01:01

Selfmade92,

I stayed there for a night prior to the assessment. The closest hotel that is reasonably priced is The Boathouse Hotel, in Hythe, Southampton (google it).
If you go by train, taxi will cost ~£27 to the hotel or the assessment centre (Dibden) . No idea how much a bus fare would cost.
You can also take a bus from the station which takes you to the Hythe ferry (for free). The ferry will cost £4.50 and you can get a taxi on that side so it will cost less than going by taxi straight from the station.
Obviously if you're driving this does not apply.

EDIT: You can also check out the Dale Farm House (near Manor Road). Better prices. Seems like I missed that when I was looking for accom. Could have saved £50 .....

Selfmade92

30th May 2013, 02:06

Thanks, looks like I could just walk over there from Dale's Farm House. But that's only if Google Maps gives me the right location, somehow when I enter the Dibden Manor location into the bar it points to the All Saint's C to E Church... any insight this is the correct location? Because I really do not want to miss this. :O

Aspiration_Station

30th May 2013, 07:22

Dale Farm is extremely close to Dibden Manor. 3 minutes drive or 10 minutes walk. I've stayed there a couple of times; lovely people, lovely rooms, and one hell of a breakfast! Very highly recommended :ok:

Iver

30th May 2013, 13:20

I saw the ad in Flight - nice looking 777! I doubt any CTC trainees would see that aircraft for a long time. The other option would be to take the Easyjet scheme, fly for Easyjet for 5-7 years and then apply to Qatar again with competitive Airbus experience down the road if you get tired of earlies/lates and the same routes over and over and over. Who knows what the European airline landscape will look like in years? Maybe the ME will be the only place to go with serious growth just like today... It is clearly not perfect, but the ME airlines are growing and will continue to add more and more aircraft going forward. Getting in with Qatar now "might" be a good option IF you can afford it and if you plan on staying for a long while. I do agree that a visit to Doha and actually speaking with QR pilots from Europe would be smart - get their perspective and feedback before taking such a big leap.

Good thing training would take at least 18 months (probably longer) for new trainees because Qatar seem to have a big hiring and training backlog (see ME forum). Hopefully the training backlog will be reduced for new trainees in this programme, otherwise they will sit around in the heat by the pool waiting their turn. :eek::}

Selfmade92

30th May 2013, 23:53

The only thing I'm concerned about is if after the training there're no positions available within the company, what's happening then? Are you still getting paid or are you left with a huge pile of debt?

Hamsterminator

31st May 2013, 08:02

The price of £105k isn't far off other existing training schemes if that is an all inclusive payment.

The CTC wings, BA FPP program and EZY MPL all mention a security bond "cost" of 69k. However if you actually want to complete the training, the cost is far closer to £105k...

The basic figures being 70k for the security bond, 20k for the foundation course, assorted living costs for two years being around 10k, and a possible type rating charge of 10k... If my maths serves me correctly that's still over 105k. I suppose the question is do they "include" a type rating and foundation skills course in that price.

AnotherWannabe

31st May 2013, 11:34

do they "include" a type rating and foundation skills course in that price.
Yes TR is included.
See the application page.
Qatar Airways Pilot Training - Cadet Programme | CTC Wings (http://www.ctcwings.com/qatarwings)

EDIT : Unrelated to above.
I've been Googling Doha recently, wanted to see some pictures and opinions .
Sounds like an immensely boring place. Really slow development, slow business growth. Also barely any nightlife. Basically just smoke a hookah all day kind of place. Seems like a dull place to live in. (I like the look of it though.)

MK88

31st May 2013, 18:45

anybody heard from CTC yet for stage 2 interview?

limesoda

31st May 2013, 20:42

Yes MK88 i got an email from them asking for an interview etc. I think quite a few people have.

nalt24

1st Jun 2013, 00:26

Hi all :ok:

I applied last friday. and 4 days ago exactly , Ctc sent to me an email requesting some more information about my academic qualifications on the A LEVELS, but since then I have no any news of them and my current status is still awaiting selection for the phase 1.
I don´t know what to expect.
I´ve just finished a 4 years degree, I am not sure if that fact can help or not to go through to the selection process

Selfmade92

1st Jun 2013, 01:33

Yea got invited, will most likely be there on the 19th of June. :ok:

limesoda

1st Jun 2013, 23:33

Did any of you guys get a chance to have a crack at the Aer Lingus online assessments over the past week or so?

Worth a go if you wanted some initial aptitude testing before being invited down to CTC.

Selfmade92

3rd Jun 2013, 02:29

Hey, quick question... on the selection page it states:

* If you believe your international academic qualifications are the equivalent to those listed, you will be required to verify this using NARIC - UK NARIC (http://www.naric.org.uk) and provide a letter of comparability during your assessment day. You can obtain a letter of comparability here

I think I don't have enough time to get that letter, but in one of the emails I've received by CTC it stated: that they ran my academics through their database and were able to verify it to be the equivalent. so it shouldnt reall apply to me, correct?

i've finished so far 2 years of studying Economics at an University.

Contact Approach

4th Jun 2013, 15:19

I'd think very carefully before cashing in on this guys...

Wasn't the MPL supposed to be a more cost effective training solution... :ugh:

nalt24

4th Jun 2013, 15:51

Hi!

here I leave you an Ctc interview from the father of MPL. In his opinion it is marvelous.
CTC AVIATION - The Big Interview - YouTube

In my opinion there are so many questions in the air and a lot off things to define with this licence.
Like "contact approach" says ,we should think it very carefully.
However the best opinion would be that of the guys who have already done it , some things that I could hear from them, is that they were very happy.

flyride

5th Jun 2013, 10:56

OMG that is the scariest training related video I have ever seen, that Dieter Harms seems to have escaped from a psychiatric hospital..

That is not an opinion about MPL, but it is scary to get to see what kind of crazy people are in charge! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Bealzebub

5th Jun 2013, 11:41

Struck me as an experienced airline pilot who is an acknowledged expert in his field. Presumably English is his second language (although very proficient,) and he was being interviewed giving good expansive answers to short questions. Whether you agree with his comments or not, they are something he is clearly committed to, and advocates very well.

Albeit likely part of that particular schools sales and marketing programme, this gentleman comes across as mature, knowledgeable, and experienced. Why do you find that scary? Your other comments are simply churlish.

I have probably answered my own question.

contacttower118.2

5th Jun 2013, 12:24

OMG that is the scariest training related video I have ever seen, that Dieter Harms seems to have escaped from a psychiatric hospital..

What because he has a creepy German accent? :suspect:

No matter what one thinks of the MPL I thought he did a good job of explaining the concept and the rationale behind it.

As a wannabe it's not really for me to judge yet the merit of the MPL itself (although to me the concept sounds very logical) but this guy in the video has been an airline pilot and involved in training at one of the world's most reputable airlines for almost twice the period I have been alive, I rather doubt he is crazy. :hmm:

flyride

5th Jun 2013, 13:50

No matter what one thinks of the MPL I thought he did a good job of explaining the concept and the rationale behind it.

Did you? So you can probably explain what is a competency base training?!?! And in what aspects is it new? Yes he's been able to reply longs answers to short questions, but he's clever enough to stay very vague. Are you naïve enough to think that MPL reinvent the training process, the way we learn skills and acquire competency?

Another point, Lee asked him why would the airline go for the MPL, he asked, "is it cheaper, is it faster?" and the senile man replied, "it's neither, it's just better". What a joke, in both cases the Trainee pays for his training, in both cases the training all the way up to the type rating doesn't cost a penny to the airline.

The airline industry started as a dream, a real passion. It is now nothing else than a money industry, and you won't be surprise to learn that Dieter Harms got a company called HARMS AVIATION TRAINING making money by selling MPL around the world.. What a surprise.

He makes me think of one of those guru using his life experience, opportunities to make a profit out of it.

The best part was when he said that MPL will train guy for the unforeseen, like landing an Airbus in the Huston river, and that training on a small cessna, or anything lighter than 20 tons is useless. But when you take a look at the career of Chesley Sullenberger ( the capt of the Flight that ended up in the Huston), what do you notice? Oh among all, he is a glider maniac... What a surprise!

I am not saying that training can't be improved, and that MPL is crap. I am just saying that Mr Dieter Harms is an imposter.

Bealzebub

5th Jun 2013, 14:15

Try reading this. (http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/flying-the-mpl-route-359132/)

So he is "clever" and "senile"?

The airline industry started as a dream, a real passion. It is now nothing else than a money industry, and you won't be surprise to learn that Dieter Harms got a company called HARMS AVIATION TRAINING making money by selling MPL around the world.. What a surprise.
You think this "industry" isn't designed to make money? It may not always achieve that end, but I can guarantee you that was, is, and always will be the intention. If this chap is selling his concept around the world, I would hope he is making money from it. Quite an accomplishment for one so "senile" wouldn't you think?

Whatever he may or may not be selling, it is the airlines themselves that are the end users. They obviously see some significant positives in this form of ab-initio training, even though it shifts additional training burden on to them as end users.

contacttower118.2

5th Jun 2013, 14:37

Did you? So you can probably explain what is a competency base training?!?! And in what aspects is it new? Yes he's been able to reply longs answers to short questions, but he's clever enough to stay very vague. Are you naïve enough to think that MPL reinvent the training process, the way we learn skills and acquire competency?

Well I think I did...

OK I grant you 'competency based training' is not a new concept as such, but I don't think Dieter Harms is claiming to have invented it. It was however a novel idea to conceptualise it more for the purposes of teaching someone to fly.

In essence "competency based" can mean different things depending on the context.

In an interview for example "competency based" means asking questions based on real life experiences, getting a candidate to illustrate their "competencies" by using examples. So as opposed to asking "what is your attitude to personal conflict" the candidate might be asked to illustrate a time they had a disagreement with someone, how they dealt with it and how they learnt from it.

In the context the MPL what it means is from an early stage the student is continuously assessed against "competencies" such as decision making, situational awareness and physical skill. These concepts are obviously not new at all, but what the MPL is trying to do is conceptualise them in a more formalised way so that they are embedded as a basis for everything.

Because in the ATPL context the concepts are often introduced in a more haphazard fashion and often learnt by hard experience rather than by indoctrination from the outset.

When I did my PPL there was not really any conceptualised grounding at all, concepts of decision making, threat and error management etc were all introduced often in random and uncoordinated fashion with the emphasis on the outcome being one of achieving a certain standard of physical skill.

Going back to the video; what I understood from it was not that anything new has been "invented", that is not what is being claimed here. What is being done is an attempt to gather together all the concepts that aviation has developed over the years that make it safer and more efficient and integrate them into the training structure from the outset. The theory being that if they are embedded the pilot will have a better understanding of the "competencies" s/he needs to operate the aircraft successfully.

Another point, Lee asked him why would the airline go for the MPL, he asked, "is it cheaper, is it faster?" and the senile man replied, "it's neither, it's just better". What a joke, in both cases the Trainee pays for his training, in both cases the training all the way up to the type rating doesn't cost a penny to the airline.

That is obviously the case in the UK but it isn't everywhere, a lot of MPL courses are sponsored. Anyway I don't see what that has to do with understanding his argument in its essence.

contacttower118.2

5th Jun 2013, 14:47

The airline industry started as a dream, a real passion. It is now nothing else than a money industry, and you won't be surprise to learn that Dieter Harms got a company called HARMS AVIATION TRAINING making money by selling MPL around the world.. What a surprise.

Someone has an idea they want to sell, that is how new ideas/products are usually transmitted. Don't see anything wrong with that...

flyride

5th Jun 2013, 16:26

Don't want to sound blunt flyride but the first thing I noticed about Captain Sully is that he was an F-4 Phantom Captain in the USAF and that he enrolled in the USAF academy at the age of 18 so he's probably not the best example of someone who has done 250 hours in a PA-28 before moving on to the rhs of an a320.

Is he then the perfect example of someone who's done an MPL Scheme? Or the perfect opposite?

I am a FI and I fly a 60+ tons jet few times a week, I am concerned about that all "the faster the better". I believe we need time and practice to "master" that art of flying. I believe we also need time to be mature enough to slowly understand the responsibilities that we will be taking when sitting in the RHS/LHS of an airbus full of pax. I think those FFS are great tools, but it's still not the same than flying for yourself, than dealing with the consequences of your decisions in a real flying environment.

But guys, I don't want to fight with you, if in your opinion that guy seem trustworthy enough to embrace MPL as it is, then go for it. Give him your money, and he'll make you the best pilot you can be.

GoProPilot

5th Jun 2013, 19:54

GgW

5th Jun 2013, 21:04

What happens if you get dropped at 600 jet hours for instance? and you've been trained to MPL QATAR SOPS.

Simple, you are :mad:.

GoProPilot

5th Jun 2013, 21:43

Thus conventional sponsorship with an ATPL is prefered .. hang on , sponsorship? does Qatar sponsor at all?

I wonder why they are doing this, seriously? is there a shortage of current/rated pilots?

baffles .

stinks.

Will carry on with my Aer Lingus cadet application.:)

TeaTowel

5th Jun 2013, 22:39

It would be in their interest to drop them too.

Make room for the next guy with money.:D

I'm sure if you broke down MPL training it wouldn't cost £105000.

contacttower118.2

6th Jun 2013, 01:48

I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to post on this thread but some of these comments are just bizarre and ridiculous...

But guys, I don't want to fight with you, if in your opinion that guy seem trustworthy enough to embrace MPL as it is, then go for it. Give him your money, and he'll make you the best pilot you can be.

But one isn't paying this guy personally, one would be paying CTC or OAA whichever flight school it happened to be. Whatever one thinks of them as businesses they have a reputation for turning out good pilots that the airlines like...don't really see how that is different from the integrated fATPL process as far as dealing with the FTO is concerned...:hmm:

Simple, you are :mad:.

Why? Yes you would trained to Qatar sops but then that would be the case with a fATPL as well. Once line training is signed off with the partner airline you can transfer to another one if you lose your job. That precedent was set back in 2008 when the first MPL holders at Sterling lost their jobs. The only real difference is that you couldn't do single pilot commercial flying.

Thus conventional sponsorship with an ATPL is prefered .. hang on , sponsorship? does Qatar sponsor at all?

I wonder why they are doing this, seriously? is there a shortage of current/rated pilots?

baffles .

stinks.

Qatar sponsor their own nationals, which is far more than our own sorry flag carrier does.

Why does this 'baffle' or 'stink'? They are a fast growing airline that has a lot of aircraft on order and probably want to start building a base of pilots who have been indoctrinated with the company from the beginning. Their reasoning for the MPL is probably the same as easyJet, Flybe and all the other airlines that have gone down this route...

No one offers full sponsorship in the UK (Atlantic excepted...) any more. Aer Lingus are the closest to have come to that recently and I certainly hope to get onto that opportunity. I'm not holding my breath though just because of the numbers involved. Therefore given a choice between an untagged fATPL course and the MPL the MPL is far preferable because you are tied to an airline that will take you at the end of it.

I'm sure if you broke down MPL training it wouldn't cost £105000.

Care to back that comment up with something? I'm sure if you 'broke down' the cost of a fATPL course it wouldn't 'cost' the advertised price either. That is how flight schools make money, by charging more for the course than it costs to produce...

Most analysis I have read suggests that the cost of producing an MPL course, for a flight school, is certainly not any cheaper than an integrated fATPL.

Luke SkyToddler

6th Jun 2013, 03:14

Just be very very careful with this one guys, I cannot stress this point enough

Qatar is a brutal airline that will drop you for the smallest :mad:-up, misdemeanour or indiscretion whether on duty or off duty.

That doesn't even include flying related stuff necessarily. Get caught messing around with a cabin crew, you're out. Captain makes a hard landing or continues unstable approach below minima, you're both out, whether you called go round or not. Do your walk-round without wearing your uniform blazer or hat - get reported by one of the "spy" cabin crew, you're out. CEO looks out his office window and sees you walking up the street from the carpark with your shirt untucked or not wearing your hat, you're out. Miss a duty because you weren't notified of a roster change - the rostering guy lies to save his ass and says he called you when he didn't - you're out. Get sick on leave and you're out, no matter how many medical certificates you can produce. Go for a picnic in the park during the hours of daylight in Ramadan and get arrested by the local cops (yes it happens and yes you can still get in :mad: even if you're not muslim) - you're out. The policy is always to sack first and investigate later, and there is absolutely no appeal process.

That is why they're always hiring new F/O's even though the pay is good, and that is why the contract world is full of ex QR people.

I wasn't sacked and I completed my bonded period before I quit, but it was the worst 3 years of my entire life. The country is a boring, dreadful, and bloody expensive third world :mad: hole. It's NOT Dubai-expat-party-town so get that idea out of your heads, it's completely land locked and surrounded by Saudi Arabia and it's a lot closer to Saudi than Dubai culturally. For those of you with families, the schools are appalling quality and stupendously expensive and there's nothing for your wife to do except hang out in malls and spend your money that you're trying to save to pay off that £105000 you just borrowed. The spending doesn't stop there, you NEED a half decent apartment or house because you will spend all your life in it, you can't go outdoors because it's too hot. You actually need a large car or 4WD because it's safer, when the local hits you in his Landcruiser at 200 km/h you don't want to be in a Micra. If and when that happens, it will always be YOUR fault on the police report and you will have to pay for his repairs. Etc etc.

I could continue indefinitely but no point really, just be aware that there are a million ways things can go wrong in that place without it even being your fault. £105000 is a HELL of a lot of money to put at risk for it, could you really look at yourself in the mirror if it went bad, and you had guaranteed that money against your parent's house for example?

Bealzebub

6th Jun 2013, 03:23

So then guys, Who has signed up for £105,000 loan on their parents house? for an MPL. which before 1500hours to convert to ATPL it could be useless?

What happens if you get dropped at 600 jet hours for instance? and you've been trained to MPL QATAR SOPS.

You apply to another airline. An airlines SOP's don't change based on the ab-initio training regime utilized for the co-pilot. An MPL restricts the holder to "multi crew" flying. It is highly unlikely an airline is going to have a requirement for anything else. A host airline is part of the training syllabus and provides the initial type rating. Once the MPL holder has completed their line training, nothing prevents them from completing another type rating or switching to another airline, provided that the applicable licensing authority recognises the licence.

GgW

6th Jun 2013, 07:03

What happens if you get dropped at 600 jet hours for instance? and you've been trained to MPL QATAR SOPS.

Yes you do apply to another airline, as simple as that. After paying £105 000 the get an MPL with an airbus rating. So lets hope another airbus operater will take you on and not bond you again for line training.:ugh:

Qatar is a brutal airline that will drop you for the smallest -up

Luke SkyToddler's post should be put at the top as a sticky to this post. QR has very high standards, and they don't really care if you are a new MPL or a very experience captain. You make a mistake an your out.

This scheme should really be left alone for Qatari nationals. The rest should try their luck with Easyjet.

Bealzebub

6th Jun 2013, 08:56

Yes you do apply to another airline, as simple as that. After paying £105 000 the get an MPL with an airbus rating. So lets hope another airbus operater will take you on and not bond you again for line training

I can't really see what the difference is in that respect from any other cadet programme? If you did an integrated fATPL programme leading to cadet airline placement, you may or may not have spent the same amount of money, and the result would be little different if you were terminated with 600 hours.

It would be quite unusual to be bonded for line training? Such bonds are normally for type rating training. Although there is a cost element to line training, it is conducted on revenue flights as a rule, and although specific to the number of available training captain tracks, additional resource (safety pilots) is usually limited. In any event, for the hypothetical case of somebody transitioning with 600 hours on type, the line training wouldn't usually be any greater than for anybody else with experience on type.

contacttower118.2

6th Jun 2013, 08:59

That doesn't even include flying related stuff necessarily. Get caught messing around with a cabin crew, you're out.

Well I won't be applying then...:p

TeaTowel

6th Jun 2013, 11:06

I'm sure if you 'broke down' the cost of a fATPL course it wouldn't 'cost' the advertised price either.

Of course it bloody wouldn't. But Less aircraft hours = more profit for school, a percentage of which is probably passed onto the tagged airline.

I like the idea of MPL training but not as a standalone licence. It should be part of everyone's fATPL training, not replacing it.

At the end of the day it costs less for the school and airline, and the SJS infected wannabe junkies pay more to satisfy their cravings.

Who wants to bet that the MPL will eventually be replaced by remote monitored FSX sessions you can do in the comfort of your own home and pay 200000 for the privalage?:D:ugh:

Gambling 105000 against your parents house should be an automatic psych evaluation fail.

Stocious

6th Jun 2013, 11:52

Do you know how much a fully certified simulator costs to buy and run? :eek:

Bealzebub

6th Jun 2013, 12:08

Of course it bloody wouldn't. But Less aircraft hours = more profit for school, a percentage of which is probably passed onto the tagged airline Until you offset the simulator hourly retail rate which is about four times that of a single engine trainer.
I like the idea of MPL training but not as a standalone licence. It should be part of everyone's fATPL training, not replacing it. It is very likely to evolve into just that.
At the end of the day it costs less for the school and airline, and the SJS infected wannabe junkies pay more to satisfy their cravings
No, the cost savings are not really there. The advantage is that the training is more relevant to the airline pilot and incorporates much more of the relevant technical and non technical aspects at an earlier stage.
Who wants to bet that the MPL will eventually be replaced by remote monitored FSX sessions you can do in the comfort of your own home and pay 200000 for the privalage? The price will most definitely reach that point in the future (14 years at 5% P/A).
Gambling 105000 against your parents house should be an automatic psych evaluation fail. You cannot do this, unless you own the house. Parents can guarantee these sums against their own assets if they have 40% equity in the property even after the loan is taken into account. They have to show affordability in the event the primary borrower defaults, so they make the those decisions based on their own experience.
Funding can often come from savings, inheritance, earnings, secured and unsecured borrowing, and any combination thereof.

Wirbelsturm

6th Jun 2013, 12:17

QR has very high standards, and they don't really care if you are a new MPL or a very experience captain. You make a mistake an your out.

High standards or a blame culture? I'll let you decide but for me it's not the first.

propilot9

6th Jun 2013, 14:09

People reading this post should not be too gullible with what people are saying here. The again in general with most PPRUNE :D

Would CTC Wings really integrate with the world's leading airline to make sure they get your money and then fire the hell out of you? I don't think so. We're talking here about a very reputable flight school and last year's voted "world's best airline"... If all this were a scam it wouldn't be available in the first place.

That you can't hit on the stewardesses because if you're seen your sacked or that when you do your walk-around external inspection missing your hat and such, you also get sacked... Yes it's very very strict, but it's a prestigious airline. This also means they work with very very strict policies which you'll have to respect.

I've met a guy before who's lived in Qatar (not as a pilot) and from his opinion he seemed to like it there although he has preference for living in other countries (expat family). I can imagine it's very hot and dry every day and that you're either flying or inside your house with air-conditioning set to max... but this is something you know when you're applying for it. It's "Qatar Airways", you kind of know where you're getting into when applying...

Let's keep this as a diplomatic/casual discussion rather than a place to talk about scams and airline/FTO conspiracy theories.;)

TeaTowel

6th Jun 2013, 14:11

You cannot do this, unless you own the house

You know damn well what it means when someones says a student gambles their parents house.

The student isn't doing it on their own by arriving home one day with the loan contract and informing their parents for the first time. Don't even argue it.

Form May 2013 Air International again:

Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.

Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.

Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.

Asked to comment on the quality of First Officers one Captain said: "They seem to be selected more on...their willingness to take on huge debt then on their suitability for...command. They routinely seem to be in such dire financial situation that stress is only a matter of time." Having taken on huge debt, mediocre remuneration makes it hard for pilots to make ends meet.

TeaTowel

6th Jun 2013, 14:22

Sad to see the Irish Celtic Tiger mentality of loans loans loans debt debt debt creep in.

In Ireland it was used by people simply to introduce themselves as "property owners" at wine and cheese parties.

Here as "Jet Pilots"

Maybe it would be a better idea to invest that money in Tulips?

TeaTowel

6th Jun 2013, 14:27

You're a Loan shark then? Great. Business must be booming.

AnotherWannabe

6th Jun 2013, 22:29

Luke SkyToddler wrote:
£105000 is a HELL of a lot of money to put at risk for it, could you really look at yourself in the mirror if it went bad, and you had guaranteed that money against your parent's house for example?

Just felt like repeating this.

Also, if someone decides to go through the BBVA route of finance, that person, or whoever is paying for it, will have to move ALL of their banking activities to BBVA. Didn't know this until EZ Selection day at Oxford.

Stocious

7th Jun 2013, 00:24

They actually just require you to open a current account and have your salary paid into it. You can stay using your old bank if you'd like.

Selfmade92

11th Jun 2013, 14:48

Hey, anybody knows how to cancel the assesement? I got into an inconvenience which I have to take care of first, and I don't find any "cancel" button on the application site, nor did they answer my mail and today it is 8 days to the assesement. :ugh:

contacttower118.2

11th Jun 2013, 15:20

Just give their Dibden number a call I would have thought...02380 844000.

goosemaverick

12th Jun 2013, 12:21

I think you've made your own mind up if you don't want to go for flexi-crew "exploitation"! that said I think salary is better than £15k p/a and the new contract is 12 months with ctc before easyjet employment . Boils down to whether you want uk or the sandpit.

soarfeet

13th Jun 2013, 20:45

momo95.... they will not give you back the £69000, however they dress up the 'bond' or whatever. You pay.

lucie_c

14th Jun 2013, 16:55

Hey there ! does someone know if Qatar wings take women ? :suspect:(or only one or two to say : look ! We're opened-minded even if we still force women to wear a headscarf :rolleyes:)

Nero91

15th Jun 2013, 11:50

Did you manage to rearrange Selfmade?

I'm interviewing on the 19th also. Anyone else?

As far as applying or not applying for this scheme goes, I decided to take one step at the time. I've applied and IF I get offered a place, I will make my decision on whether to carry the offer through to the end based on what I know from the assessment and anything else I might have been able to pry out of CTC/Qatar Airways by that time.

I can see everyones point of view and from the limited information we all have at the moment it does seem like an incredible financial risk!
But maybe there is a silver lining....

Time and more information will tell.

Luke SkyToddler

16th Jun 2013, 10:41

Lucie_c :

Yep they have taken several female cadets over the years, one or two from Jerez and some cabin crew who wanted to move up to the drivers seat, they've also hired female direct entry FO's and captains, even husband-and-wife teams

Obviously just being a woman and living in that country has some major issues, but to be fair to the airline they don't seem too hung up on sex discrimination.

aviatorcharlie

17th Jun 2013, 16:40

Hey, so has anyone actually gone to the Qatar/ CTC assessment yet?

As I rightly remember there was one on the 13th and another on the 19th. I'm booked on to one on the 6th August as I was in LA for both the other assessments.

From what I remember reading they hold a question and answer session in the morning session, just wandering if anyone has any information from this?

lucie_c I'm also a female applicant and been accepted for interview so I'm guessing they are hiring females :)

Black Pudding

17th Jun 2013, 20:53

There are lots of females working for Qatar. It's not an issue at all. You get treated like everyone else.

nalt24

17th Jun 2013, 20:56

Hi!

I will be attending on 6 august too:ok:... would be very useful if someone give us some information about 13 june assessment.:rolleyes:

limesoda

18th Jun 2013, 15:27

See you chaps (and gals :ok:) on the 6th! Im excited!

lost_pilot

19th Jun 2013, 14:51

How long after submitting the application did you guys hear back from the ctc for an assessment ?

aviatorcharlie

19th Jun 2013, 17:27

about 4 or 5 days I think, wasn't too long at all :)

lucie_c

19th Jun 2013, 18:05

Thank you for your answers, that's what I thought but as Luke SkyToddler said I am a bit worried about woman's living conditions in that country. I will probably finish my application and try to learn more about it if I'm selected for tests and interviews.

MK88

23rd Jun 2013, 05:16

Anybody succeeded stage 2 and 3? Mine is on the 6th as well.

JimmyNZ

24th Jun 2013, 21:15

halfofrho

24th Jun 2013, 22:34

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but on this course you do not actully get a PPL etc. only a MPL and hence couldn't go down to your local airfield and take a plane up by yourself (seems a bit stupid). (Went to the Qatar Wings open day in NZ last weekend)

The same has applied to all CTC integrated courses for quite a while now. On the traditional wings course you get a ME CPL so you would only need to add a SEP rating in order to hire out a light single.

JimmyNZ

25th Jun 2013, 02:29

The same has applied to all CTC integrated courses for quite a while now. On the traditional wings course you get a ME CPL so you would only need to add a SEP rating in order to hire out a light single.

Didn't realise that I just know that the CTC Jetstar course in NZ gives you PPL, CPL and ATPL so thats all good for me

Stocious

25th Jun 2013, 17:58

Perhaps it's something to do with that's where all their aircraft are? It's a pretty cool place to fly around in as well to be honest.

Jimmy, I doubt very much CTC will get you your ATPL, Jetstar or not!

JimmyNZ

26th Jun 2013, 21:08

Jimmy, I doubt very much CTC will get you your ATPL, Jetstar or not!

Sorry I should have been clearer, you do your ATPL exams, and then put onto the line with Jetstar where you will do your ATPL once you have the hours to do so

smithy8906

2nd Jul 2013, 19:23

Hi my son has got through to stage 4 but has not got a date yet but has been told it is in Qatar Has anyone else been told the same? Is there anyone on here who works for Qatar now ? that can say how the previous students who work for the airline are coping. My son is only 19 and if the company is looking for students in there mid 20s as with easy jet he doesn't want to waste another £1000 going to Qatar for an interview. does the figure of £105,000 include the cost of going for the interview I guess there is no discount off the flights either...

hopefulpilot94

2nd Jul 2013, 19:35

Hi, congratulations to your son! :ok:
I don't think his age matters as they are looking for 18 to 28 year olds. It will be really good for him to get out there to decide if it is right for him, on the website it states all travel and accommodation will be paid for so it's essentially a free trip which will provide him invaluable insight into his potential future home!
Good luck to him for the final phase! ;)

contacttower118.2

2nd Jul 2013, 20:38

Unless they have gone back on their word according to the CTC website the cost (if necessary to go to Qatar) will be covered by Qatar themselves so subject to clarification from CTC on that point you should not have to worry about paying for a flight.

I actually went to a selection day for Qatar but did not make it to stage 4. Salary details were given in the selection day presentation so unless they were missed off the day your son went he should have been told them. I forget off the top of my head the numbers but I thought they looked pretty good. The only potential downside is that obviously the line training wage is much reduced and there is no definite timescale for when line training will be complete - previous posts in the thread suggest that the CTC cadets who went to Qatar a while ago still have not completed.

contacttower118.2

3rd Jul 2013, 09:57

Did you have to go to Qatar? We were told at my selection day that it would not be necessary.

Black Pudding

3rd Jul 2013, 11:44

smithy8906

First of all, if you can afford the money for this scheme and your son gets offered it, grab it with both hands.

I am guessing he will be getting free flight and accommodation to Doha for his interview and test. I am guessing the Doha visit will also involve doing the PAT test.

15206 congratulations

saifs1410

3rd Jul 2013, 21:35

aviatorcharlie

3rd Jul 2013, 22:17

Congratulations, that's amazing!

To clarify... your offer of employment with Qatar is based on security clearance etc therefore should you get through that (and the course) you will have a definite job with Qatar?

saifs1410

4th Jul 2013, 03:44

I applied about 5-6 days back for the qatar wings program and got a reply today saying I was accepted for the phase 2 assessment which is to be held on 12th July.. Since I cant make that day I have requested them for another date.. Ler's see how that goes..

Is there anyone who has had to change their assessment dates and I would like to know how that went.. Waiting for a positive reply from ctc with my fingers crossed

Honestly, that was very quick. Even though I did not get any reply via mail, I have now another date open in my application center with another available date for 7th August. So I guess I will be there on that day.. :-)

doz111

5th Jul 2013, 17:13

What is the "offer" from qatar then at the completion of the training?

future-pilot

15th Jul 2013, 10:58

Does anyone have any information regarding phase 4 in doha?
I haven't heard anything from ctc since my selection day.

Boksryan

17th Jul 2013, 13:03

Does anyone know when the next selection day will be? I sent my application, for Qatar wings, over a week ago, but haven't heard anything yet
:\

rahulras1993

20th Jul 2013, 22:04

Hello Everyone,

This program seems very interesting having lived in the middle east for all my life I look forward to applying to this program, however I am in the middle of my degree now :ugh:

Anyhow please anyone who gets through the program let me know.

Also do they guarantee a job in Qatar Airways after you finish?

hopefulpilot94

21st Jul 2013, 12:19

Boksryan the next dates are the 10th and 11th of September.

Congratulations to those who have been successful.
Sorry if this seems a silly question but is there a physics component to the assessment? The CTC site mentions mental arithmatic but nothing about physics.

Thanks in advance!

imran_x66

23rd Jul 2013, 04:39

Hi guys,

I applied for the program within a week of its launch and is been invited for phase 2. Since I want to do my assessment in NZ, I asked them for there available dates in NZ. They told me that they will inform me once the NZ dates are confirmed. Its been more than a month, but I have not heard anything yet.

By the way guys, does the Qatari interview is done soon after the CTC interview or do people need to go to Doha for the interview with the Airline? Did anyone do the interview with Qatar?

Cheers!

imran_x66

1st Aug 2013, 11:54

That's really great! Did you get feedback from Qatar? Goodluck with the selection mate! Also, any knowledge on the probable start date?

After the interview with Qatar in Nursling-- do you have to go to Qatar for the induction or do you start the training straight way?

Iver

6th Aug 2013, 12:29

A 25-year old mate of mine is considering this route with CTC. Question: what is the discussed aircraft progression options for graduates? Does everyone start on the A320 and then progress from there? Or are there widebody relief pilot slots like you find at Cathay? Any "likely" expectations set initially by either Qatar or CTC? If you do secure an A320 seat, how long is the seat lock or hours requirement on that airplane before you can move to another fleet?

limesoda

7th Aug 2013, 17:54

15206 I have also been given the September start date and want me, and 3 others to be inducted in Qatar over the next few weeks.

The reason for the delay is that they do not have enough people to fill the August course (according to CTC) so will be looking to fill the Sep with these cadets.

PM me for more chats as we shouldn't clog the feed

yannisoar

8th Aug 2013, 14:52

15206 & Charliegarner - mind sharing what was asked by the Qatari representatives during the interview?

limesoda

10th Aug 2013, 18:47

i am yet to speak to the Qatari representatives, but i'm not sure i would be comfortable giving that information out on the open forum.

maverickNZ

12th Aug 2013, 21:37

Iver - from what was said at the Qatar Wings CTC open day they told us that an A320 FO position would last about 2-3 years, then you would move on to say an A330 for I'm not sure how many years as FO and then looking towards Captain after that... Of course it is too hard to say whether these time figures are correct but you certainly won't be locked in to the A320 forever. Those are the rough figures they gave us and it will be interesting to see how future cadets progress... I will be applying in February.

maverickNZ

12th Aug 2013, 21:43

Of course these time scales are also subject to getting the 1500 hours you need before you get your full ATPL... Until you get that you will be locked to the A320 but that shouldn't take more than a couple of years, if that depending on schedules etc.

limesoda

17th Aug 2013, 16:57

If anyone else has a start date could you PM me?

king of kong

24th Aug 2013, 14:53

Anyone know how often they'll start courses?
When's the start date of those of you that have been selected already?
Did you get to choose between UK and NZ to do the theory?
Was anything mentioned in phase 1 Q&A about housing? Is it mandatory to stay there or do you have a possibility of finding your own accomodation (ie: if you are married)?
Sorry for the amount of questions, I'd just like to be as sure as possible before attending phase 1.
Thanks

limesoda

7th Sep 2013, 12:00

I got a call this week but I'm in the states. It's a shame but it looks like I will be starting in November. That also answers the question of how often the courses will be run. Should be every 2 months with about 10-12 cadets on each course.

Hope that helps. Anyone looking to start in November give me a shout!

Montreal86

22nd Sep 2013, 23:22

I applied a week ago still waiting to see what the next step will be.. any help guys?:hmm:

limesoda

23rd Sep 2013, 15:42

A quick heads up to those applying:

The courses will now be run once every 2 months, however there will only be 6 cadets on each course!

Therefore the start dates have been pushed back. I am now pushed back until January!

chocsaway08

25th Sep 2013, 20:16

Has anybody any idea of when the next stage 2 assessment day for Southhampton will be? My application has been progressed but the only one available is in New Zealand!

chocsaway08

22nd Oct 2013, 13:09

Momo, yes mine is tomorrow!

momo95

22nd Oct 2013, 22:06

Apparently they're all full till january !!! This thing sure is popular

limesoda

24th Oct 2013, 17:15

Have you done done any of the assessments yet? Its a bit more than just being chosen by the Qatari representatives... ;)

AJNH88

25th Oct 2013, 09:24

Hi guys, anyone got any experience of phase 4? Anything to worry about?

Also, how long did it take for you to get a date for it?

Thanks in advance.

irishoperator

25th Oct 2013, 17:02

Charlie Garner - how come you're still in the process for the Aer Lingus cadet scheme if you've accepted Qatar? Just curious.

NathanJohnston

25th Oct 2013, 20:56

Evening all,
On a different note, for my learning, if one was to be accepted onto the programme and gain a MPL licence, could that same person apply to a Direct Entry vacancy (in a different airline) which required an ATPL licence? In essence, the similarity / difference between MPL & ATPL?
Any help much appreciated!

Nelson15

25th Oct 2013, 21:56

You'd have to get an APTL.

If you had an MPL you'd have to have 1500hrs minimum including the various types of hours required for an ATPL, and have one issued before applying to an airline which requires an ATPL.

AJNH88

27th Oct 2013, 11:35

That's not far off the figure quoted to me by CTC less than a week ago...

momo95

27th Oct 2013, 13:05

In which case this maybe a very good opportunity.

AJNH88

27th Oct 2013, 13:16

15206- mind my asking what your Phase 4 interview with QR was like in general?

Anto747

28th Oct 2013, 10:28

hi All,

I'm attending an assessment for the Qatar Wings program on December 13th do anyone know if the tests are similar with a classic CTC cadets assessment?
Sorry if this question already been asked....

captain.weird

29th Oct 2013, 10:18

Hi guys,

How are you dealing with the financial things? I'm not from the UK nor from France. But I'm from Europe, but there are no finance possibilities for myself.. I can't pay the tuition fee. I don't want that my parents are going to pay it for me..

momo95

29th Oct 2013, 10:39

Unfortunately it's a dead end for you as far as qatar goes. The only way is through a loan and bbva require it to be secured over a UK property ...

limesoda

29th Oct 2013, 14:22

Apologies Momo... I was given a start date for a course provided I passed phase 4 which I am yet to complete, hence why I am still in the AL cadet scheme selection.

With regards to the salaries I can confirm that what you had mentioned is correct (well at least about correct and the figure they gave us in their PowerPoint).

I am not bias to the scheme however from my understanding these figures are correct.

Overall I agree there is not enough information given to cadets prior to applying. Shame really because It seems to be a great scheme with fantastic prospects.

Sorry to confuse

AJNH88

29th Oct 2013, 15:15

Charliegarner- Hi mate, I seem to be at the same stage as you; currently waiting for CTC to get back to me with a date for Phase 4-how long have you been waiting? I've been penciled in for the May course.

limesoda

29th Oct 2013, 19:10

From my understanding, the information that I have needed to access has all been given to me. If there is anything which they are failing to give me then I would begin to be suspicious but so far it's been easy to access info (past he first few stages that is).

AJNH I too am waiting to hear back from CTC about a phase 4 interview, however I have been pencilled in for a January date as I was meant to have my interview in September but couldn't attend. It's keeping me on my toes but once I know they are coming over it will be a relief!

momo95

29th Oct 2013, 20:29

So what exactly did you mean by cadets not being given enough information ?
Sorry if the questions are getting a bit boring !

limesoda

29th Oct 2013, 22:45

I mean that when you look on the CTC website, there is not a lot of information to justify a 100k payout for an airline programme.

However having been through the stages, there is a large amount of information given to you when you go down to CTC and listen to the presentation.

They allow you to take notes too, and questions are welome.

This is just what i have experienced.

UPDATE: Hearing from one of my friends on the September course they have now been told that they will be doing QCA exams and not EASA! Might be something to look at carefully if you are one of those cadets not in it for the long run.

momo95

30th Oct 2013, 05:00

Ok, thanks for that charlie,
I'm still waiting for a selection date to become available. In the meantime i'll look into the qca license and conversion to easa etc. not to say i'm not in it for the long run, but it's just that no one knows what could happen after about 4 or 5 years.

imran_x66

30th Oct 2013, 08:18

Hi guys!

I am in for phase 2&3 next month in NZ.

Is the phase 2&3 for Qatar Wings any different from usual CTC wings phase 2%3?

Any idea about where to get best Pilapt practice software?

What kind of questions do they ask in the interview?

Any tips in general?

Also, if I am successful, how long do I need to wait for phase 4?
Can anyone share some information about it? Does that takes place in Doha?

After completion of phase 4, how long do I need to wait to get a start date?

Thanks!

AJNH88

30th Oct 2013, 09:45

Imran,

Phase 2 & 3 is almost identical to CTC phase 2 & 3, with some slight difference in the group discussion tasks. If you make the grade for CTC but not Qatar, you'll still be offered a place at CTC.

As far as whether you'll be going to Doha or not, not many of us could give you the answer. I'm not sure about NZ, but round here in the UK, we've been told to wait for Qatar to come over here.

As far as practice aptitude tests go, I can't speak for anyone else, but this (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/interviews/view/subject/CTC+Wings+Pilot+Interview+and+assessment.html) is what I used and it seemed to work for me.

Hope that helps. :ok:

Charliegarner- so you've been waiting since September?? QCA - would that be the Qatari equivalent of EASA?

momo95

30th Oct 2013, 19:40

Obviously, i suspect it's just a matter of paying for a conversion. I have to look into it further. Though can someone please clear up whether the a320 rating will be qcaa (i dont know too much about the administrative side), cos i heard in america you get an faa a320 rating and apparently it's a nightmare to convert to a jaa rating ?? I thought if you were qualified for the 320 in one country you could fly it anywhere. I mean a 320 is the same in every country. Either way i don't think it's anything major enough to put me off the programme.

momo95

30th Oct 2013, 20:44

Thats exactly what i thought about the type writing, until i read this http://www.pprune.org/north-america/300434-jaa-caa-casa-icao-conversion-faa-9.html . The second post is what throws me off with needing the a320 checkride. I appreciate this guy is talking about going to america, but i read something else i cant find at the moment which mentions a similar process about converting to easa.

limesoda

31st Oct 2013, 10:39

ctbrown - still in selection for Aer Lingus cadet programme too. Doubt i will make the cut though. Nothing else though. Haven't yet received any rejections but been in the process for a dam long time now

Yeh to be perfectly honest i'm not fussed about having to convert licenses, especially with the attractive salary in our favour. But i really couldn't tell you.

All i know is that the wait time for selection stages is gradually increasing and whose to say they won't close it? Although its a rolling process, they already have a large amount of cadet pilots starting this year.

Regarding the QCA stuff, it was mentioned by a current Qatar Wings cadet that they would be doing QCA theory exams. To be perfectly honest you will have to convert something down the line anyway.

Thanks Momo95 for the research.

limesoda

1st Nov 2013, 20:12

Yes and if i am correct you don't have to retake all of the exams, purely because some mods eg principles of flight, weather is exactly the same over the 2 lisences.

pilotchute

5th Nov 2013, 06:28

It makes no difference what or who did your exams. If you get issued a Qatari licence at the end of the course then you will have to take the 14 exams again to get an EASA licence.

Why are you even worrying about that anyway? Are you planning on jumping ship as soon as you have the 1500 hours?

You should be more worried about where the 100K pounds will come from to pay for the course.

archer_09

5th Nov 2013, 10:13

For those of you, like myself, who have attended, and passed phase 2/3 of the assessment day, I haven't read of anyone else picking up on the fact that having completed training, you won't initially go in as a FO. Instead, you will be a second officer on a third of the salary for an unconfirmed period of time!

Having called CTC yesterday, I was advised that there is a good chance that those of us waiting on final interviews, we MAY be given an update by the end of this week.

momo95

5th Nov 2013, 10:41

The salary would seem to have that taken care of from what i'm hearing

archer_09

5th Nov 2013, 10:54

Sorry, in what sense will the salary take care of that?

momo95

5th Nov 2013, 13:38

i posted in reference to pilotchute saying "You should be more worried about where the 100K pounds will come from to pay for the course."
My thinking being that most people will be taking out loans and so you would want a big enough salary in order to handle the repayments.
I don't know whether you've seen earlier posts but from people who say they've attended assessments (I'm still waiting for a phase 2 date so can't comment on the salary mentioned at it) the salary is meant to be around £60,000 (100,000 usd). That sounds like plenty to keep up with repayments bearing in mind the easyjet guys have around £15,000 a year and took out roughly the same amount in loans.

"I haven't read of anyone else picking up on the fact that having completed training, you won't initially go in as a FO. Instead, you will be a second officer on a third of the salary for an unconfirmed period of time!"

That is something that would worry me, but as I said I haven't yet attended an assessment and would only ever sign up once knowing the full details and me being totally satisfied that it is worth it.

BTW: your post at 11:13 didn't show up when i posted earlier hence the reason i didn't address it then.

momo95

5th Nov 2013, 13:42

just one more thing, the ctc website specifically states we will be doing an a320 type rating and be an f/o, I never knew the a320 fleet had second officers.

archer_09

5th Nov 2013, 14:09

I see - sorry makes sense now.

Having attended both open days and the assessment, it isn't until the presentation at the start of the assessment day that this information is provided.
I jotted the figures down on scrap paper but can't seem to find them now but the figures were something like: $2800 p/m (+ flight allowances) whilst acting as second officer then $6500 p/m (+flight allowance) once FO. Obviously this is a ball park figure on their part.

When asked how long you would act as S/O they couldn't be specific but said approx 6 months.

Now if paying back the loan at say £1k per month, this may make the first 6 months a bit tight.

Good luck with your assessment.

AJNH88

5th Nov 2013, 17:21

Good news about the update by the end of the week, if indeed it does happen.

Second officer is the position held during line training in Qatar prior to finishing training and taking up an F/O post on the A320.

planedrive

5th Nov 2013, 20:52

For those of you in the know (ie those who have been to CTC selection days/been offered course starting dates etc) do you know if you're guaranteed a flying job with Qatar? The only reason I ask is because of the Wings Cadets that were taken onto 5 year contracts with Qatar almost three years ago now. These cadets have not started flying the line yet and were recently told they will now be doing office jobs for the foreseeable future, possibly until their contracts expire. Pretty rough deal when other people who were on their courses have now got over 2000 hours flying A320's and B737s...

momo95

5th Nov 2013, 21:15

Planedrive raises a very interesting point. There's something that doesn't quite add up about qatar airways' recruitment lately. Despite all of the supposed aircraft deliveries they still seem to be struggling to fill cadet positions.
I very recently spoke to a qatar pilot on a flight and he said he knows a friend who applied to qatar and did a sim assessment two years ago and they're still saying they're gonna call him up but not yet !!!!
Could it be that once they move airport and with further aircraft deluvered this will change ? Who knows.

And just out of interest, how much did the qatar cadets a few years back pay ? And was it just a tr or was it the full mpl like today ?

pilotchute

5th Nov 2013, 22:37

15206,

Why did I post that? Because more than a few people on here don't seem to know what they are talking about.

Go on, take out your 100K loan and put a second mortgage on your parents house. When Qatar decide at the end of course that they have changed their minds you will be in a pickle. Qatar is notorious for treating its pilots poorly so don't be surprised if the contract "changes" a few times. You may even end up in a desk job like the Wings guys.

sikeano

6th Nov 2013, 12:21

Good post pilotchute, most probably the only sensible one :)

AJNH88

13th Nov 2013, 16:22

CTC have just been on the phone- next round of final interviews are next week. Anyone booked up?

archer_09

13th Nov 2013, 16:26

Yep, thurs 11:30

archer_09

15th Nov 2013, 14:25

Anyone know what to expect as CTC has made a point of saying will last no longer than 30 mins...

AJNH88

16th Nov 2013, 16:37

Nice chaps. I'm Weds morning myself. As far as I can tell, this is a quality check. By no means going in there without prepping fully though.

Black Pudding

16th Nov 2013, 19:08

Some advice for you. Don't post on here what day and time you have interviews. Very silly thing to do. Not a good idea. Best no one knows who you are on here.

limesoda

16th Nov 2013, 19:17

Yes AJNH88 that's what i heard. However 2 out of the 3 chaps on my last selection who got through were turned away, so, like you said, get preparing! All the best to everyone!

drivez

16th Nov 2013, 20:33

Chaps just a quick two cents.

The MPL training is a fantastic experience, it will provide you with amazing Multi crew experience and scenarios in the sim that CPL/IR guys will never have exposure to. The learning curve is steep, the standards expected high and it will be a challenge (as any flight training is).

However....

The MPL is still in its infancy and there are many creases. If the worst were to happen and you face a long spell in a hold pool etc. you WILL NOT be able to fly professionally single crew and the route to being able to do so is tough and expensive, consider that when you have just spent 100,000k for that license. If you don't have a type rating you don't have a license, all those tests you pass mean absolutely squat. All of the things put in place by the CAA to allow a MPL conversion do not exist until you complete that TR. Even then only when you pass your first line check after line training will your license be derestricted from the parent airline. There will be no dispensations. Don't be suckered into doing an MPL by a flying school marketing man. Go in eyes wide open, and going in to the future I believe the MPL will be the way forward.

Don't take this as MPL Bashing or negativity toward this scheme, it's good to see Qatar opening the door, just be aware and make informed decisions. Read CAP 804 and have a back up plan.

Best of luck to all who apply, and best of luck to all those successful!

GAZ45

17th Nov 2013, 13:36

Does anyone have a definate yearly salary for this scheme as an F/O?

Ive searched through the literature on the CTC website but to no avail. Happen to think its slightly arrogant to ask a potential cadet to stump up 100 grand and not even mention the salary.

It means you cannot even assess whether the opportunity is a viable option, or just for wealthy individuals.

limesoda

17th Nov 2013, 18:46

Arrogant? Really? You are given the exact salary in the contract given to those successful candidates.

They do not expect you to commence training not knowing the exact salary.

GAZ45

17th Nov 2013, 18:52

But they expect you to cover the cost of selection etc. without letting you know salary for the successful candidate.

It's a perfectly reasonable thing to want to know. If I have to borrow 100k from a bank it'd be more than useful to know what salary to expect to even see if it's possible to over the loan repayments.

The risk is entirely placed on the candidate, both financially an in the nature of the MPL... So yes actually, I do happen to think it's slightly arrogant.

It's a great opportunity, I'm interested to see if it's a viable option.

limesoda

17th Nov 2013, 22:29

I will repeat myself

'They give you the exact salary details within your contract BEFORE you pay anything towards the course'

They also give you figures at stage 2 and 3 selection but I can't tell you how accurate these figures are at this stage.

And the selection fee applies to EVERY course at CTC including the wings programme so of course they are going to charge for it!

GAZ45

17th Nov 2013, 22:42

I'm simply requesting some information - I'm not looking for an argument.

limesoda

18th Nov 2013, 10:08

I understand that and i am letting you know that the information IS provided at stage 2 & 3. You're allowed to take notes too.

AJNH88

20th Nov 2013, 18:26

How did everyone's interviews go? Anyone heard anything back yet?

hypersonic786

21st Nov 2013, 07:16

When will we be informed of the outcome. The waiting is making me anxious

limesoda

21st Nov 2013, 18:01

i was accepted today and went for induction. In my accommodation now with CP114. Good luck to everyone

shatally

22nd Nov 2013, 13:22

Hello everyone! I shall be visiting CTC Academy to take my test on 13 December and would like to know which visa type should I apply for? Standard Visit Visa or any other specific type? Thanks in advance guys.

limesoda

22nd Nov 2013, 14:45

Just a heads up for anyone interested. Both the QCA exams and TR are fully convertable to EASA. You DO NOT have to re-sit all 14 exams (total BS) but you are required to do a small conversion exam.

AJNH88

27th Nov 2013, 14:23

BUT
- The scheme is expensive.. But i agree it's an investment.
- You don't automatically get the job at the end. Ask for legal documents from CTC to be sure of this. CTC will train your son but then he will have to do several tests (PAT) before flying for Qatar. From my understanding the pass rate is 50%. If you fail you can't retry. Correct me if I'm wrong, or if you can retry when you are from the MPL. I had the confirmation from Qatar that if a new joiner fails, he/she won't have a second chance.
So you'll be left with nothing apart from a 100K debt, since your MPL is not valid in any other airline.

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the above is true? Worrying if so...

Korean

27th Nov 2013, 15:16

I think nobody even started their line training at Qatar Airways and how do they know the fail rate is 50%

AJNH88

27th Nov 2013, 15:37

My thoughts exactly... Would be good to hear from someone currently on the course- limesoda I'm looking at you... ;)

Korean

28th Nov 2013, 04:44

hey

how was your final interview like?

and do you remember what kind of question did they ask you?

AJNH88

28th Nov 2013, 12:16

Have you done phases 2 & 3 yet? I'd worry more about that interview if I were you. That one lasted an hour and I was asked a lot of competency based questions ie. "Give me an example when you worked well as a member of a team?" etc. My Phase 4 interview was 10 minutes long.

pilotchute

14th Dec 2013, 11:55

This thread has gone awfully quiet! What is happening with the scheme?

Hasn't been put on hold has it?

momo95

14th Dec 2013, 15:55

Nope, selection days recently went out for the end of jan :) . Apparently they're being held every 6 weeks.

MahirKaplan

3rd Jan 2014, 22:00

Hi Guys, is there anyone here who has gone through the scheme and is now training or flying in Qatar? I managed to pass phase 4 and am planning to apply for a BBVA loan however I could do with some realistic times and figures as to what the training durations and pay figures are. More specifically im looking for the duration from the start of initial operating experience to becoming a fully qualified first officer with higher salary figure quoted during phase 2&3 of selection? Please PM me if necessary!

MahirKaplan

3rd Jan 2014, 23:31

Ahh, that's not a bad timeline if it is to First officer. My understanding was that once line check is complete you're a first officer. What's getting me worried is the fact that the interviewing captain told me I'd be flying as a second officer? What does this entail exactly? Is this simply the name given to trainees on their IOE - pre final line check? Or does one end up as a second officer for a long while? Also what is - 'fast track Second officer' and non fast track?

Excuse the hail of questions, I'm just having a last minute major worry before i send of the loan application, And Internet searching aren't helping at all.

MahirKaplan

4th Jan 2014, 13:08

Hi Gents,

I have news from a very good source that the road to FO after arriving at Qatar is 1 and a half years currently instead of 6-8 months. QR does provide accomodation, or if not they will give you housing allowance, which seems like a big amount but is not much in Qatar apparently so you may have to share. I was also told the job security is excellent as long as one follows company and cultural rules. If not, as you may expect things will deteriorate very quickly.

I thought the message received was very positive, If you would like the full message regarding this PM me. Just thought id let you all know so you can make a better informed decision. Essentially if you take out a loan from BBVA, you will just about be making ends meet until you're an FO, at which point it jumps massively to the figures given here (not sure how accurate this website is mind you: Qatar Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements. (http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Qatar_Airways) )

amarbond

5th Jan 2014, 20:09

How can you be so sure though?
I think Qatar airways is a well known airline that wouldn't give fake promises, if it says 6 months then it will be 6 months.

Kiwiflyer48

6th Jan 2014, 08:31

Hi all. I passed stage 2 and 3 back in October 2013 in NZ. I am from NZ and am now waiting for my phase 4 interview. I hear there are hardly any other Southern Hem candidates that are at the same stage as me so Qatar recruiting won't send someone to interview yet, not even at CTC NZ. I have to wait. In the mean time they are continuing to interview in the UK and fill courses. Anyone have any other ideas of how things are going and how long I may have to wait? It is so frustrating not knowing.

Korean

6th Jan 2014, 09:11

why dont you ask them if it is possible to have the interview in qatar at their expense.

Kiwiflyer48

9th Jan 2014, 03:13

I have done that, no luck yet.

MidnightCobra

17th Jan 2014, 13:42

Has anyone outside of the UK or NZ applied and got invited?

Korean

17th Jan 2014, 17:26

me from south korea

chocsaway08

21st Jan 2014, 07:17

Reading through this thread I think its astounding that people are actually still applying for this programme!

Korean

21st Jan 2014, 13:38

Well said:D

Other than that, it is very good opportunity to start up your career in one of the best airlines in the world.

chocsaway08

21st Jan 2014, 14:16

The risk of spending £105k and then having a 50/50 chance of Qatar Airways taking you on is enough to deter me. Subsequently then being trained on Qatar SOP's and practices making you unattractive to other potential employers is a huge risk with the debt then looming over you. What happens if you are not selected after 18months of training and have BBVA banging the door for £12k per annum or Mum & Dads 3 bed semi?

The quantitive data on the actual wages and the time it takes to get into the flightdeck is not communicated (even at the selection stage 2) and effectively you are at the whim of a government backed employer in a country with very limited or little employment legislation.

Unfortunately I don't have any better ideas but I have come to look at this from a realist's perspective and understand it to be just immersed in a lack of detail, luck and overall poor management.

The idea is great, the execution poor and the risk simply outrageous.

Korean

21st Jan 2014, 15:27

If you fail, you get 69,000 pounds back which is enough amount for CPL training in USA or somewhere.

Then, you have PPL CPL and some full flight simulator time(which is considered to be the same as jet time)

Anyway, I am not a type of person who think negative thing first.

More risk, More achievement.

This is how I live

chocsaway08

22nd Jan 2014, 07:04

A PAT test with £105,000 (+ Living expenses) riding on it?

Good luck all, you'll need it.

Korean

22nd Jan 2014, 08:33

guys
lets make it happen together. lets put aside all the negative things and do our best:ok:

pilotchute

22nd Jan 2014, 09:47

Korean,

FFS is NOT considered the same as time in the aircraft. I don't know of one reputable CAA that will count it towards your total time.

That is why all the airline ads for crew stipulate that SIM time isn't counted towards the minimums for employment.

chocsaway08

22nd Jan 2014, 10:44

Korean, If you were to fail or were not in the upper 50% of the final PAT test do not expect any monies returned. I think you have misunderstood the criteria.

It will only be returned if a candidate fails "despite best endeavours" which would not mean if you got to the end and your marks were not quite high enough to be employed by QR you would be let go with £69k and a pat on the back.

Korean

22nd Jan 2014, 13:59

thank you for the concerns:ok:

i understand theres alot of risk.

life is too short to take account of all the risks.

i will worry about tomorrow's worry the day after tomorrow.

but sincerely thank you. i hope we all can achieve our dreams:ok:

amarbond

25th Jan 2014, 10:48

Hi guys!

How early do you need to apply for the Qatar wings course?

I finish my exams June, so should I apply now?

BradHarris

31st Jan 2014, 15:33

I have recently applied to the Qatar Wings program, however, I am 17 years and 7 months old. I know you must be 18 to start but does anyone know if this will stop me from going through selection and having the chance of being selected to start a few months later?

Thanks in advance!

ryan1995

31st Jan 2014, 23:05

Hi
I applied when I was still 17. They got back to me 3 days before my 18th birthday saying I couldn't apply yet but to email them when I turned 18 if I was still interested!
So in brief - yes it will stop you. Just wait a few more months - I can't see them closing the application window any time soon.

BradHarris

31st Jan 2014, 23:14

Okay thanks very much for the help! Did you go through selection for Qatar in the end? If so how was it?

Luke SkyToddler

1st Feb 2014, 02:50

Doha is no place for a wide eyed single 17-year-old :sad:

I really really recommend you kids to actually visit and spend a few days there so you have even 1% of an idea of what you're getting into if you go down the road of this scheme.

And if your parents are paying for it then for god's sake take them too, so they can see what hell they are about to cast little Johnny into :hmm:

Flyinguys

1st Feb 2014, 19:13

Hey i have recently recieved a email from CTC qatar airways for a second stage interview. They are asking me to pay £210 for registration. I just want to know what exactly happens in stage 2-3 and is it worth travelling so far and what basis are selection made .? Any other info's will also be helpful.

Thank You

ryan1995

1st Feb 2014, 21:41

I got through to stage 2 of the BA FPP so I chose instead to go for that as after some thought I didn't really want to move to Qatar and spend in excess of £100,000 on training which would've meant putting my parents' house at risk to secure the loan. But unfortunately I didn't pass that stage.

I would also take into account what Luke is saying - originally I thought Doha would be amazing - who wouldn't want to live in a rich, hot country. But after a bit of research my opinion changed somewhat - enough to put me off it!

BradHarris

2nd Feb 2014, 09:14

Well that's a shame but at least there're other routes in!

And I see the point you're both making and I know it wouldn't be easy at first moving to a place like that, but I'm the kind of person who'd rather go somewhere different, maybe even a bit dangerous for the adventure. That's one of the reasons the scheme appealed to me.

funkyt111

5th Feb 2014, 12:57

Wow....Just wow....I am well and truly disgusted. I won't ever even fly with them in the future let alone work for them. I knew it was bad but I didn't think it was this bad.

rickycari

6th Feb 2014, 12:17

I have been selected for Phase 4 but still waiting for my date. can anyone tell what to expect for the phase 4 assessment, is it in sim like other cadet wing assessment or is just an interview like phase 3. How long does it last and are we presented with a contract that time and around how many get selected,

second thing any idea when they are going to have the next phase 4 assessment

Korean

8th Feb 2014, 20:23

me same waiting for phase 4.

hope somebody gives us some information.

rickycari

8th Feb 2014, 22:47

:confused: yes if someone can just tell little bit about the phase will be greatly appreciated :ok: can also pm me about it if they dont mind

Wirbelsturm

9th Feb 2014, 04:33

Here's some information.

Read the article posted in post 233, it's an eye opener and also very true.
I asked a Qatar crew member about it last night and she was very reticent to answer apart from that they had been told not to talk about the article in question nor to answer any questions about the living arrangements in Doha on fear of dismissal.

Don't just look at a job go and look at where you will be living and what the lifestyle will be. Believe me it is not pleasant.

Please, please, please think hard before you pay out such large sums of money for a job that has absolutely no job security whatsoever.

Job markets will be moving in the near future, Qatar is not the only option out there, go get a job flying something fun before you go to the boring stuff.

Stone_cold

9th Feb 2014, 12:35

Try to justify anything you wish , the rules can apply to anyone , anytime and anywhere they wish . If you think they treat the pilots differently , think again . You know that you need an exit permit to leave the country . You can and will be punished for things not associated with the job . Do you know that CC and pilot CRM mixed was stopped for over one year , just because the CEO didn't want the 2 groups to mix ( what the hell is CRM then ). You think this is normal ? Do you know it is up to QR to allow the QCAA to release your license validation . Do you know that for the privilege of obtaining your exit permit your are REQUIRED to pay 100 Euro !! And according to the EVPO HR , this is for your convenience !! So even if you want to take the single exit permit , this option is not available to pilots . What about the Fleet manager who prevents pilots from fleet transfer for a single "average grade " , yet nothing is said when he cocks up his Sim . And unless your religion prohibits it , whose f**kn business is it if you party or drink , as long as you are legal for your duty . If they want only non-drinkers , then they should state this . Why is it that he can control who you socialize with ?? You cannot see that this is abnormal !! He cannot prevent the locals from entertaining the CC , so again if one seeks a relationship ,no problem , as long as you are not a Pilot .Hypocrisy . He is a control megalomaniac .But if you don't appreciate freedom and respect then it can be a good thing . So go for it and hope that you don't make any mistakes .

funkyt111

9th Feb 2014, 13:07

I really cannot understand why anybody would consider working for a company that has policies such as "You can be dismissed without us having to give you a reason". What if you meet the CEO and he decides he just doesn't like you? There is no security whatsoever. I have re-emphasise what Wirblestum has said; think very very hard before parting with large sums of cash for this company. Speak with your family members and friends and get their advice too.

momo95

9th Feb 2014, 14:04

Its qr's business if u drink and go nightclubbing to the wee hours on specific rest days seeing as though you signed a contract pledging not to ! Don't like it ? THEN DON'T JOIN !!! Stop trying to discourage those that don't drink etc just because you had, or know someone that had a bad experience. Play by the book you'll be ok, break the rules and you'll be gone, SIMPLE.
Now while I disagree with how qr deal with dismissals and AAB's handling of certain things, you agreed to comply by it when joining. It's the equivalent of joining the miliatry and then complaining that you can't live your old life, do you then blame the military ?? Of course not, it's your fault for not doing proper research !!! The girl in the article did break the rules, she wasn't sacked for no reason whatsoever. The rules may be odd, but if you feel like you're not gonna like it, then more fool you for joining.
Don't take this as me defending the rules, what i'm saying is it's your own fault for signing up to a set of rules you knew you couldn't comply with, don't blame the company when you decide you don't wanna follow them anymore and you get caught doing something you weren't supposed to !!!

Stone_cold

9th Feb 2014, 15:27

Actually , sometimes you don't . All the ins and outs are not fully disclosed to cc or flight deck until you are there . Hence the reason for forums such as this . If YOU don't like it , then don't read it . you have had a good experience so far . I wish that it changes so that you can see how quickly the gold turns to :mad: . but even one bad experience is worth others knowing . so that as you suggest , others can decide to join OR NOT !!

Stone_cold

9th Feb 2014, 15:34

Hey Momo95 , if you are in fact employed in QR and since you seem to have so much confidence in your management and your job security and your personal ability to follow all the rules you signed up for . Do you keep your salary in Qatar banks or do you like most , if not all expats transfer out all non-essential funds ASAP ? just in case ??

Wirbelsturm

9th Feb 2014, 17:04

I am responsible enough and have, for the past 26 years, been responsible enough to turn up to work sober, well rested and fit for my job. I can set those parameters for myself as can the vast majority of my colleagues. I don't need some jumped up half wit demanding what I do and writing ludicrous rules into a handbook of a company.

I see who I wish, I fraternise with who I wish, live where I wish (as long as I am confident I can get to work) go out where I wish, sleep where I wish and I would resent any employer (yes including the military) trying to tell me, a consenting adult, otherwise. Think about what sort of regime would demand these rules. Doha is a dump. You will never be 'local' the locals will always be preferential rostered before you, you have NO job security and you have no fundamental right of access to your finances.

If you are prepared to give up these basic, fundamental freedom rights for the 'privilege' of sitting in a shiny jet then I'm afraid either your background was terrible or you are far too naive and trusting.

But what the hell, go for it.

momo95

9th Feb 2014, 18:32

You guys seem to be having a hard time understanding that i'm not defending qr's rules (despite me mentioning it repeatedly). I'm merely saying if you don't like them, then don't join . And qatar does not watch it's pilots anywhere near as much as cc, stop trying to create a hysteria about nothing. I have spoken to 4 qr pilots (2 of which captains) and they all said the rules are strict, but if you fully understand and are OK with what you're signing up for, you won't have a problem.
Where you have gotten the notion I work for qr from I don't know. Now before you say I can't possibly be informed about qr, I will safely take the advice of 4 real qr pilots (1 of whom I know closely) than that of someone off pprune.

As for either having a terrible background or naive, well what an assuming person you must be. So there isn't a possibility that someone doesn't drink and has no intention of going to doha other than to work and socialise in a way that doesn't involve drinking or staying up till 4 am, there either a spoilt brat or naive ???

Wirbelsturm

9th Feb 2014, 19:14

I think you misunderstood the context of my post.

If you are willing to accept the restrictions on your basic fundamental rights, irrespective of whether you partake or not, by an overbearing, controlling and manipulative employer than either you don't understand your fundamental rights as an employee i.e. naïve or you have come from a regime which is worse and therefore the conditions in Qatar are a step up.

I fully agree, don't join if you don't want to. But many will ignore the bad stuff for the idea of flying a boring big jet aged in their 20's. Go figure.

Stone_cold

9th Feb 2014, 23:35

You spoke with such authority on the goings on in QR , I assumed that you had first hand experience .

Thus , I will assume that you are seeking this opportunity with the cadet programme for your big break into Jets . You are willing to disregard the plight of fellow human beings ( the CC ) , as long as it serves your personal benefit .

Ask your friends then , if they would recommend QR before EY or EK and why ? Ask them if they are confident that they could not be fired tomorrow for nothing or the rules changed tomorrow . Ask them , as I asked you , do they keep their salaries in Doha ? Why not ?

You are naive to think that the same rules don't apply to Pilot's , just a different level .( btw , the CC live in guarded apartments , since you noted that the Pilots live in Guarded compounds ) .No cameras , no swiping of ID BUT in case your friends didn't mention , your guests are monitored and details recorded
So again I say , jump at your opportunity , but don't try to justify your decision as being okay because only your fellow employees are subject to slave like restrictions and you will be privileged .

This forum is free and maybe you have the means to check with current pilot's . Others may not , so the info posted here may assist them in making a more informed decision . Because you don't agree and eagerly want the opportunity , doesn't give you the right to deny others a differing view . And I have worked there , so I think I can speak with more authority on the subject than you .

momo95

10th Feb 2014, 13:13

I never said qr was better than ek or ey. I'm saying that this is the only opportunity for many people, and it doesn't seem right you coming on here and exaggerating the situation. Just because you worked/work for qr and had a bad experience doesn't mean everyone else will. Now I will take the advice off 4 real people more than an alleged person who claims to have experience off pprune any day. The fact you think i'm willing to take advantage of the 'plight' of others for my own benefit is just a sign of ignorance. At what point did I say I don't mind others being treated badly ? This thread is for the pilot profession and so unlike you I feel it's necessary to differentiate between what happens to pilots and cc. I said pilots from the qwings course live in guarded compounds (like cc) only for the first few months, when they upgrade to first officer they're on their own.

"This forum is free ... Because you don't agree ... doesn't give you the right to deny others a differing view"

You're the one who is trying to deny others their right to an opinion, not me. You spoke of your discontent for qr, I gave a slightly different view in a peaceful manner, then you replied with an aggressive statement because I didn't give a similar view to yours ... the hypocrisy !! So in other words, unless someone complies with your views they're denying everyone else a right to information ??

You sum up the issue in your last sentence. Just because you worked there you think you have the only authority to give a view. Well i'm trying to help those that know no pilots at qr by letting them know that there are many pilots who have a different view to yours and aren't so unhappy with the company, something you don't seem to like.

Stone_cold

10th Feb 2014, 14:57

You say that I exaggerate the situation , but you haven't been there . Quite hilarious . I haven't said you were wrong . I just state some of the things which I have seen . You imply that the bad rules only apply to CC ,and that as long as you are a privileged pilot , then don't worry about anyone else . They are human also . I never claimed to have had a bad experience personally , so again you assume , but I have seen a lot . Your friends are right , if everything goes well , you can enjoy a nice time there , BUT , if things go wrong .they can go very wrong . So , again , you can state your case , and I can state mine . The individuals who want to interpret can take away what they want . And yes it may be a good opportunity for many , but some may value freedom over what is on offer .

momo95

10th Feb 2014, 16:03

"I never claimed to have had a bad experience personally"

"some may value freedom over what is on offer"

So you've claimed to have a good experience then have you ???

"You imply that the bad rules only apply to CC ,and that as long as you are a privileged pilot , then don't worry about anyone else"

What an awful way to twist my words. You were trying to make it sound like cc and pilots follow the same rules, I correctly pointed out it wasn't the case. I'm trying to get the facts straight here and get a balanced view while you seem to have a different agenda.

G-F0RC3

10th Feb 2014, 17:50

Never happy unless you're involved in a good argument are you momo? :p

However, I agree in part with what momo is saying. If you understand the rules beforehand and either don't agree with them or can't see yourself sticking to them, then why contract yourself to them? You go into an entirely different culture if you join some foreign airline (particularly if it's somewhere in the Asia Pacific region), so you had better ensure you understand the local traditions and expectations.

Personally, this is one of many reasons why I wouldn't consider such airlines. I'd rather stick to my current career than be pinned down by terms that I didn't agree with. At what point does it become live to work, rather than work to live?

On the other hand, I don't think it's a bad thing to challenge what you disagree with. I can happily sit here (because I've no intentions of putting myself in a position whereby my opinions might jeopardise my career) and say that I totally disagree that the airline you work for has any business whatsoever telling you when you shouldn't drink/socialise during your time off. As long as your actions do not prevent you from carrying out your duties in a responsible, professional and legal manner, it shouldn't matter.

Stone_cold

10th Feb 2014, 23:03

Gforc . This is correct , if all the issues are told to you prior to you accepting the employment then you agree and sign on the bottom line . However , all is not told and things change overnight without your agreement . Example , overnight : Qatar stopped providing connecting flights home for flight crew that lived off of Qatar's network . Not a small issue , when you have a family and now have to buy full fare tickets ( peak season holidays ) . Arguably this was not guaranteed in the contract , but was promised prior to hiring and provided for years and withdrawn with the last salary increase .
Payment for overtime was another " change " at the previous salary adjustment .Another thing which may be of interest to Momo , being " on your own " is not always an advantage as the allowance given is not sufficient , but is another benefit changed as from 2005/2006 housing had been provided ( good luck with the landlords as 2020 approaches ) . I am not about to provide a laundry list here , but I was once told by the guy in charge of recruitment at the time , that his job wasn't about Pilot retention , just to get them to join ( so he said whatever he needed to in order to maintain his quota) . So although i agree that if you go in after being warned , then accept what you get , but it is not so simple in the Middle East and it surprises many ,so while he has all the relevant info and is happy , others may wish to question more .

As for the drinking which Momo refers to , there is no rule for anyone prohibiting this . "0.0" tolerance . CC cannot have in their accommodation , but can go out to the clubs etc. , so everyone can party and drink to the wee hours . And this is where I started to disagree with you . They have a curfew , even on their days off , and this restriction is more what the article alludes to . No one is saying they should be allowed to drink and work .All get fired for doing this .

Momo said " This only really applies to the cc. I don't think pilots face such scrutiny. Proof from the article itself is that the pilot who broke the rules was given a warning, whereas a cc member would have been sacked."

Twisting your words ??

No , the life experience was not good ...just not horrible , personally .

I agree that the scrutiny is not as intrusive on a personal level for the Pilot , but was in place for a while ( not sure about now ) at the Holiday Villas . So it can happen . My point was that the same rules can be imposed to everyone if they wish . It is their train set and the what you sign up for may not be what you end up with .

So Momo , as we continue to disagree , it's not an issue and it is by no means personal , just note that I can state what I observed , you say " you think " .

Stone_cold

11th Feb 2014, 03:48

Actually , what is normal on these forums is that generally speaking a lot of those come here seeking good info and anyone who puts a negative spin on things " has a chip " . Its called Justification bias , so you can listen to all the good . I have said all facts including some good . Check with your friends . I am not alone , there are many threads , and this latest article is not the only negative one on QR and Qatar . So for you , the only correct info is what you want to hear . I can post the links if you wish .

I challenge you , the legal dept. of QR , AAB or your 4 friends to dispute that I have not given correct info on this site as you so accuse .

I didn't twist your words .I quoted exactly what you said . "It only applies to cabin crew" which seems to indicate that as long as you are a Pilot then its ok , these rules and punishment won't apply .If you didn't mean that , then fine ,but they are humans and many do not have much options either . Just remember ,you treat them well when you get there because they report ( or used to ) directly to the CEO , the Pilots don't .

Wirbelsturm

11th Feb 2014, 08:33

I recommend that you guys spend some years in the military

Thanks, been there, done that. It still never had the restrictions on personal liberties that I have seen and heard of from colleagues in Doha. With the exception of operational deployments I still had the liberty to live where I wished, see who I wished and do as I wished.

Plus I got to play with lots of very fast and very expensive toys.

Now I play with the big, well paid boring stuff. It is boring flying though. Just remember that.

Enjoy the sand pit.

G-F0RC3

11th Feb 2014, 11:51

Not really tennisten:

"Almost 200 Nepalese men are reported to have died last year working on construction projects in Qatar.

The International Trade Union Confederation says up to 4,000 could die by 2022 if current laws persist.

Qatar had until 12 February to inform football's world governing body, Fifa, how it would reform working practices.

The new 50-page charter has been developed in conjunction with the International Labour Organisation.

As well as 185 deaths last year, it is believed a significant number of workers in Qatar suffered injuries as a result of unsafe working practices.

There have also been complaints about the standard of accommodation many workers live in."

Read more at: BBC Sport - Qatar 2022: New charter to protect World Cup workers (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26131986)

Perhaps it's different for pilots and cabin crew (although it would be naive to think that Qatar Airways is untouched by it), but it's perfectly clear to me that Qatar doesn't put the same value on the safety and living standards of its employees as we - in the UK - do (although we are still far from perfect - but that's a different debate).

So if you take advice from people who work in Qatar then I'd be careful to ensure they are comparing their working conditions there with what you - as a westerner - might expect, rather than comparing their working conditions with the poor guys who are losing their lives on an almost daily basis.

Korean

13th Feb 2014, 17:15

Did anybody here have phase 4 interview in Doha??

rickycari

15th Feb 2014, 01:38

i am also waiting for phase 4 , does anyone have idea of when will the next phase 4 be around . How can you get the phase 4 in Qatar ?

bigapple05

20th Feb 2014, 17:12

Hello!

I'm also about to apply but I have some questions:

-> Should we do the medical exams before applying? I mean, if we're not medically fit we shouldn't even pay the 210£, right? If yes, are class 1 medical exams made abroad (in other european countries, for instance) valid and accepted by CTC?

-> If Qatar Airways fires us before we reach 1500 hours, what do we have to do (and what's the price, obviously) to be able to apply to other companies?

-> How hard is it to pass through phases 2&3? Bearing in mind your experiences, what was the average percentage of people that actually made it through? As you have probably already seen by this post, english is not my mother tongue, but I think I have a quite good english (I'm doing the CAE in March). Would this be a problem in terms of selection? Are there a lot of non-native english speakers applying and being selected?

In my understanding, it's better to invest a lot having the perspective of a job at the end than to invest less money but without any perspectives of a steady job. This said, which MPL or other programs would you recommend besides this one?

BaronVonBarnstormer

24th Feb 2014, 00:19

bigapple05

In my opinion:

-> I'd only do the medical first if you have doubts about your fitness to fly. Chances are that any underlying medical conditions / eyesight issues you will already be aware of so i don't see any reason to faff around getting a class one medical before even applying for training. And if you do your medical in Europe you will get an EASA Class one medical that will be valid world wide.

-> This is the big question. I don't think it is a definite No. Have a read of this thread: http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/370974-mcp-multi-crew-pilot-licence.html

-> I haven't done selection (yet), but i do know that CTC test against a standard and if you meet the standard you can train with them, Qatar on the other hand may pit you against other applicants based on phase 3 and 4. For non english speakers you need to have IELTS Level 6 proof.

Personally I would get an offer first before spending money on medicals etc, although this does mean paying for selection first. Which ever way you look at it you will be spending a eye watering amount of money to train so you may as well save the pennies now. If you are comparing the Qatar wings MPL route to the CTC Wings fATPL route the overall cost difference is smaller than you think once you factor in getting a type rating on your fATPL. You also have to consider the pay in the long run, if the mumblings about the healthy salary at Qatar are true then paying off your training debt will be a lot easier than it would be flying for a low cost European carrier. Plus the progression potential at Qatar is looking really quite good with a whole stack of new aircraft on the order books.

Hagop

14th Mar 2014, 09:29

This thread has gone very quite lately..
Did anyone start training yet? Is there a legal contract between the cadet and the airline that a guaranteed position awaits him after he completes this MPL programme? I have read that the cadet upon completion of the course will become a SO for 6 months, but just reading through the threads, is there really the possibility to extend the time interval to around 1-1.5 years before upgrading to a FO position?
Cheers!

bigapple05

14th Mar 2014, 17:33

Which referees did you choose? Did CTC actually contact them? How should we choose them?

The Maverick

18th Mar 2014, 08:07

Hey guys, has anyone heard if CTC are recruiting for Qatar while recruitment for the BA scheme is still on going? Has anyone received an invite for assessment since December?

doratheexplorer

22nd Mar 2014, 16:27

Maverick,

I have been invited for assessment.

imran_x66

23rd Mar 2014, 20:59

Hey guys,

I recently email CTC, asking them about the exam/test that student needs to do after completion of their training in order to gain employment with Qatar.This is what they replied:

To be offered a position on the Qatar Wings program, you will be required to pass our selection process. Once you have completed your training with us at CTC, you will start your type rating with Qatar. Part of the type rating will require in house exams that are set by Qatar and not by us.

If there is anything else I can help you with, please don’t hesitate to get in contact.

After that if asked them what will happen to the student if they don't pass that test and how it is justified for them to ask a student to spend 105k pound on training keep everything hanging on that test?

It's been three weeks already and no reply at all!!!.

That really got me thinking whether is the best course to do or not.

Also, with AAB's dictatorship, nothing is guaranteed. If he wakes up next morning and says we will stop the cadet program and that will be the end and that how Qatar Airways is run.

Hagop

24th Mar 2014, 08:31

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that you will fail the type rating after passing selection, 6 months of ground school and all the accompanied sim and flying hours. Make absolutely no mistake, selection itself has got to be the most demanding/intense test I have ever done, and plenty of others will say the same.

"If he wakes up next morning and says we will stop the cadet program"

4) Unless AAB loses the plot and decides he wants to start ruining everything he did in the last 15 years he isn't just going to call quits on the scheme. You have to remember that Qatar have also invested a lot of time, money and effort into the programme.

1)Do you mean that if a cadet passes the selection, he will most likely end up as a SO with QR with no risks being discarded at all?
2)Did anyone confirm to you the time interval to upgrade from SO to FO?
some say 6 months some say might extend up to 18 months.There's nothing officially written about it I guess.
3)Can you please clarify what kind of money did QR invest into the scheme where the cadet is required to pay the grand total amount of £105,000?

Hagop

3rd Apr 2014, 14:56

momo95,
I have previously read the thread and the points that I have mentioned were not answered fully and objectively;however, it more likely was everyone's personal opinion. In fact, I don't know why you felt offended and perceived my questions as "sarcastically written", they were just normal questions heading towards the "truth" that some people don't want to see.
Let me simplify the questions that I've written for you.
1)"Do you mean that if a cadet passes the selection, he will most likely end up as a SO with QR with no risks being discarded at all?"
As imran_x66 stated above there is unfortunately nothing guaranteed, anyone could be discarded after spending the £105,000 I guess. In addition to being discarded by the airline, don't forget that the license is an MPL, no other airline will accept and approve that license other than the one who you trained with until you upgrade to 1500 hours.
2) "Did anyone confirm to you the time interval to upgrade from SO to FO?
some say 6 months some say might extend up to 18 months.There's nothing officially written about it I guess."
Again, everyone said something about it but there is NOTHING officially written that confirms the exact time interval. If you have any formal information about it, I would love to know.
3) Can you please clarify what kind of money did QR invest into the scheme where the cadet is required to pay the grand total amount of £105,000?

doratheexplorer

8th Apr 2014, 08:21

Has any one been to phase 4 recently?

Hagop

10th Apr 2014, 18:09

Has anyone actually started training? or at least been given a start date?

imran_x66

30th Apr 2014, 02:56

Momo, from you previous posts, I have seen that you have unconditional support for QR for reasons better known to you.
I raised a few questions that I thought was necessary to be answered. My doubt grew when I didn't receive an answer from CTC when I asked them what will happen to the Cadet when they fail their TR exam. The simply ignored my email, though they replied to all my previous ones.

Nothing is guaranteed in middle east. They can change their mind anytime without being held accountable to anyone.

I read on several PPRUNE forums about what happened to the CTC graduates Qatar hired before they launched the Qatar MPL. Many of them did not even get to fly for months and were made to do clerical duties just for the sake of contract they had.