ATC Investigation

[Fallows]

Colleagues,

I have been invited to have an "informal chat" with the investigation people about an event that took place a number of weeks ago to which I was a party. I have been informed that the "chat" will take place within the next 72 hours, but that the tapes will not be available to me beforehand, but that I can listen to it at the interview.
This is a new thing to me, and my question is, Is this normal procedure and are there potential pitfalls and does anyone have any advice.

[The Truth]

Don't go in alone!!!!!

[niknak]

Depends what the "informal chat" is about.
You can refuse to cooperate, but this doesn't usually achieve much.
It's not unusual to be denied access to the tapes prior to the interview, this is so that you recollect the events as you remember them, not as you may interperet them from a recording.
Remember, that at this stage, it is an investigation , not a witch hunt, and the investigator will be trying to establish facts, not conjecture.
By all means take someone in with you, and even insist on recording the conversation - which you are entitled to do, but if you do take a colleague in, make sure that they have at least your level of atc knowledge or greater.

[BEXIL160]

I understand your anxiety old chap. Been there, done that etc...

Anyway to reasure you. There is no "witch hunt". All the people you'll meet there are friendly and their only wish is to find out what actually happened, not to point fingers.

By all means take along a "prisoners friend", for moral support.

Hope this helps a bit.

rgds BEX

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Just go in and get on with it. 90% of us have been through it, sometimes several times, and those who haven't almost certainly will in the future..

Nobody is trying to blame you, if indeed it was your fault, or anybody. They are trying to determine why the situation occurred and how to prevent it happening in future. I've never been interested in taking anyone in with me - what's the point? I trust the investigators and they're not about to do anything underhand or have me sacked!!

DON'T worry - go in for a chat and then get back to work and try to remember that we're all human.

[Miffy]

I agree with The Truth - don't go in alone!! There seems to be a definite trait of guilty until proven innocent in this job!:mad:

[Arkady]

Stick to the rules of filling in a 1261 - only volunteer the facts as you know them and avoid conjecture. Take some one with you and brief them to stop you wandering off the point or offering an opinion rather than just recounting what happened. Although it is true that the Investigator is unlikely to be "out to get you" your version of events may end up in the hands of someone who is.

[Vlax]

I would go along with Arkady advice………….

I know it’s easier said than done, but try not to worry about it. If you were at fault and they thought it serious you would have be suspended and the chat would have been within days, not weeks.

It’s standard with the tapes, but they may also have radar recordings with mode C. You may not actually hear the tapes, because they may be presented as a transcript. It may be helpful to mention other frequencies you may have been working at the same time, if it has a bearing on workload!

A psychologist my be present, this more to evaluate possible human factors associated with the incident.

They my want your story before you have access to the tapes. Just recall the facts as you know them.
Don’t be surprised if there are facts presented that are different to the ones you’ve just stated. What you’ve just told them is how you remember it, bearing in mind the passage of time and without the benefit of the tapes. If it becomes obvious that you have f***ed up, then hold your hands up.

They are not out to get you or make a public example off you, just to get to the bottom of it and try to prevent it happening again.

Good luck

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I'm amazed at arkady.. On the few occasions I've had to go to a "hearing" I've gone in alone with the attitude that I'll talk about anything and everything which might help the inquiry. I've also been to chat with the delightful lady from HQ who is doing some research into incidents.

I have never, but NEVER experienced anyone trying to do anything which may have been interpreted as underhand and just whose hands could the stuff get into which would cause me problems?

[niknak]

Fallows - I'm with H.D. on this one, if any investigator had an "alternative agenda" they would be very quickly removed from the scene.
The phsycologist - from the CAA Medical Branch, who will almost certainly be present, is completely independant, and is there to observe both sides of the story.
For one reason or another, I've attended several of these 'chats', and I've never felt intimidated or that I was being grilled by the gestapo.
Try and relax, cooperate and act as professionally as you would when doing the job itself.
Best of luck.

[Arkady]

I haven't had to attend a great number of Investigations and I agree that I have never been to one that was looking to do anything but establish what happened and why. My point was that conjecture :

"... in my opinion.."

" ...it seemed to me..."

"...I thought that..."

can be interpreted differently by different people, and not just those present at the interveiw. In particular, such statements may be used to attempt to illustrate a controller's state of mind at the time of the incident.

Whether we like it or not we now work in the competitive world where blame needs to be apportioned and can translate into compensation. I am not suggesting that this "Blame Culture" exists within UK ATC, in fact I strongly believe that it does not, however we are now part of the private sector where attitudes MAY be different.

This may seem negative and overly cautious, but I would not trust NATS to defend me if something I had said was used against me to call my actions into question.

[2 sheds]

Fallows
You have a great deal of very good advice above. Certainly take a trusted and experienced colleague, answer the questions factually, if you don't know/can't remember, say so. The only point with which I would disagree is that of putting up your hand if you ****ed up - it might actually be the fact that other people shared the responsibility so don't encourage anyone to think it was all yours (if there is any blame, of course!).

Good luck

TS

[5milesbaby]

Being an investigation, they are trying to ascertain what actually happenned running up to and during the incident. If it was to point a finger at you, then you would be withdrawn from duty pending investigation. From what I have seen, they are very relaxed and informal affairs where they really are after your knowledge to come to understand what happenned and why.

That said, I'd ALWAYS have someone more senior by my side........