State the relationship between config and maneuvering speed

[lilflyboy262...2]

Hi guys,

Having a little bit of trouble with my atpl studies. I am trying to look up the relationship between configuration and maneuvering speed.
I am assuming that this is not VA as it is in the approach and landing section.
I think it is referring to maneuvering speed at which full maneuvering is available.

My book does not explain this too clearly and wondering if anyone here can help.

Cheers!

[lilflyboy262...2]

Anyone? My exam is in a few days and can't find an answer anywhere...

[john_tullamarine]

Perhaps if you provide a little more specific information, perhaps quote a small section of the confusing notes ?

[lilflyboy262...2]

Well it is from the new Zealand atpl syllabus for systems and performance. Syllabus item 48.27.2a

"state the relationship between configuration and maneuvering speed."

The closest my book gets to explaining anything about maneuvering speed is under the definition "flap maneuver speed" which states:

Flap maneuver speeds allow full maneuvering capability (25* bank with a 15* overshoot). Full maneuver margin exists for all normal landing procedures whenever speed is at or above the maneuver speed for that current flap setting.

[172_driver]

Not sure if it helps, but on the 737 minimum maneuver speed allows 40 deg bank (25 + 15 overshoot). It's the top of the amber bar.

The maneuver speed is shown in green for the selected flap setting and gives greater margins to the envelope boundaries. It's based on Vref.

Up-speed = Vref40+70
1-speed = Vref40+50
5-speed = Vref40+30
15-speed = Vref40+20
25-speed = Vref40+10

maneuver speed is not shown for flaps 30 or 40..

[lilflyboy262...2]

Thanks 172driver.

So basically the speed is Vref + 40kts. Then depending on the flap setting it is + whatever.

So therefore the greater the flap setting (up to flap 25) the lower the maneuver speed.

[VH-Cheer Up]

Surely the relationship at its simplest, unless about a specific type, is just that the dirtier the airframe, the lower the manoeuvring speed?

i.e. the more the wheels or flaps are hanging out in the breeze the less latitude you get with speed. Because of drag loadings on your dangly bits.

Funny how airframe tweaks that help you fly slower don't help you fly faster at the same time.

That's life I suppose...

[172_driver]

So basically the speed is Vref + 40kts. Then depending on the flap setting it is + whatever.

Vref40 means the Vref speed with flaps 40. This speed depends on weight.
The maneuver speed is always Vref40 speed + 70/50/30 whatever according to the schedule I posted.

[Intruder]

"Maneuver speed" in context is what Boeing calls the minimum safe speed (based on 1.3G, 30 deg bank, + overshoot [or whatever the exact technical criteria are]) for the given flap configuration. It is based on Vref, as 172_driver indicated, so varies with weight. It is NOT the same as Va, which is a common reference for light airplanes (and, AFAIK, only applies to flaps up).

In general, for the given flap configuration, flap maneuvering speed will give you sufficient stall margin for all normal turning and maneuvering. If you have to fly slower, increase the flap setting.

The 747 schedule is Vref30 +

60 for Flaps 1
40 for flaps 5
20 for flaps 10
10 for flaps 20
5 for flaps 25
0 for flaps 30

Vref30 + 100 is normal safe climb speed with flaps up, and Vref30 + 80 is flaps up maneuvering speed at landing weights (or below 311T).

[Jonty]

Manoeuvre speed is the minimum speed where you have full manoeuvre caperbility for the current config of the aircraft. It will decrease with the application of flap/slat.