GA in an independent Scotland

[astir 8]

Just supposing for a moment the 2014 referendum resulted in an independent Scotland.

Presumably a Scottish CAA would have to be set up, a Scottish AAIB etc etc etc.

And G-REG aircraft would have to be re-registered.

What new national letters would be used? My own suggestions would be MJ (Mad Jock) or KA (King Alex). However does anyone know how it might be worked out officially?

Course I'm sure the SNP has it all worked out already!

[jollyrog]

Duty drawback. Mmmmm :D

[BackPacker]

There's a lot of small counties that outsource their aviation "management" to a considerable extent to the neighboring "big" country. It's simply not cost-effective to retain all the expertise in-country. Examples are Luxemburg, Andorra and Monaco. And I'm no expert on the exact relation between the CI, IoM, IoW and such on the one hand and the UK on the other, but they may be in a similar situation and may have done the same thing.

(Not saying that Scotland is or will be a small country geographically, but it will be population-wise, although I have no idea how it will compare to, say, Luxemburg.)

Furthermore, with EASA taking over more and more aviation matters, there will be less and less national differences. This means that to a large extent, any NAA would be able to help Scotland out. It doesn't have to be the UK (GB? LB? England, Wales & NI?) CAA.

[mad_jock]

MJ would be rubbish.

S has alot more potential for rude registrations.

The is van in Aberdeen with a reg of A1 FUD

Buggsy S-HITE if it changes.

[soay]

What's the chance that a benefit of independence would be that I could afford to land at Edinburgh or Aberdeen?

[jxk]

Perhaps they could be all painted in a tartan scheme!

[BillieBob]

It would be a matter for the International Telecommunications Union to allocate call signs to a new country. S is not possible as SAA-SZZ is already allocated to Sweden, MAA-MZZ is allocated to the UK so no MJ and KAA-KZZ is allocated to the USA so KA is not possible either.

[astir 8]

Have to try ATA then - Alex's Tartan Airforce

Mind you Allie's Tartan Army got there first I suppose

[piperboy84]

What's the chance that a benefit of independence would be that I could afford to land at Edinburgh


NFW ! you cant even get a frggijn train to Edinburgh airport (the main train line for the country does not go to the capitol citys airport) but it does go right past the end of the runway, so you can get a preview of your plane sitting at the gate from the train window as you whip by heading into the centre of the town to get a bus or taxi back to the airport which adds about and hour to your journey.

When this happened to me and all I could do was dream of being a judge in one of those 1950’s era Chinese show trials with a packed Murrayfield stadium and the road and rail planners chained up in the middle of the pitch being denounced by the baying mobs of citizens, after a sufficient period of haranguing I would rise hold up my hand and as the crowd silenced, I give a firm thumbs down, at which point it was the end for the planners and rail consultants that made my journey so unnecessarily difficult.

We can but dream

[treadigraph]

How about AS-?

Salmond's Royal Barge (should he aspire to such an extravagance) could be AS-HOL...

[dont overfil]

How about AS-?

Salmond's Royal Barge (should he aspire to such an extravagance) could be AS-HOL...

:ok: Love it.

The Scottish government are quite familiar with subsidising air transport. Fine examples are the services to the Scottish islands and of course the no expense spared spaceport on the west coast.

Perhaps the health budget could be tapped to subsidise flights to the sunshine and heat to cure the blue goosebump skin syndrome most Scots suffer. I think that could be the decider for the "aye or naw" vote.

D.O.

[dublinpilot]

It looks like S1 woudl be available (the only S which is available).

What is "Scotland" in Scottish gaelic?

[dont overfil]

What is "Scotland" in Scottish gaelic?

Alba. Or is that only the bit NW of the Great Glen?

D.O.

[mad_jock]

No D.O.

That bit is called the highland resticted area.

They have Alba on the sign as you go over the border heading north anyway.

[Crash one]

Alba. Or is that only the bit NW of the Great Glen?



It that where you get all them cheap Tellys from at Argos?

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi, Of-Com give out GM callsigns for Scottish Radio Licences, ( GW=Wales, GI= N.Ireland, GC=Ch.Isles, GD=I.O.M.) So its all been worked out.

However a different pricing structure could be arranged by the Scottish Parliament... Say Av-Gas at 50% cost price, and free PPL training, to teach the new Scottish Pilots for the future Scottish Air Force.

[Graham Borland]

Everyone knows that Scotland is the home of Golf, so it would be the remainder of the UK that would have to find a new letter.

[BillieBob]

Hi, Of-Com give out GM callsigns for Scottish Radio LicencesOnly while it's a part of the UK.It looks like S1 woudl be availableNope, sorry, A1, B1..........Z1 are not issued because the 1 may be confused with I.How about AS-?APA-ASZ is already allocated to Pakistan.

V9 is available and callsigns starting with V are quite commonly allocated to ex-British colonies. :E

[Unusual Attitude]

Say Av-Gas at 50% cost price, and free PPL training, to teach the new Scottish Pilots for the future Scottish Air Force.

No need, I'll offer my services for free, I'd just be happy if they'd let me fit guns to my wee plane so I never had to worry about being number 2 in the circuit :E

[peterh337]

Does anybody seriously believe Scotland will become a separate country?

ISTM, speaking to many Scots over the years, that nobody with a brain wants that and that it is just a gravy train for people who cannot do real work and who have gone into politics for the status, the benefits, and the chips on their shoulders (like most of Brussels).

If Scotland went independent, it would become a social dump which would make Mid Wales look like Dubai - unless it could grab the oil revenues, and the UK govt will never allow that.

[M-ONGO]

If Scotland went independent, it would become a social dump which would make Mid Wales look like Dubai - unless it could grab the oil revenues, and the UK govt will never allow that.

Don't be so sure! But we would certainly ban all TB9/10/20's.

[dont overfil]

No D.O.

That bit is called the highland resticted area.

They have Alba on the sign as you go over the border heading north anyway.

In that case we'll just extend R610 down to 55 degrees N

D.O.

[riverrock83]

Does anybody seriously believe Scotland will become a separate country?

ISTM, speaking to many Scots over the years, that nobody with a brain wants that and that it is just a gravy train for people who cannot do real work and who have gone into politics for the status, the benefits, and the chips on their shoulders (like most of Brussels).

If Scotland went independent, it would become a social dump which would make Mid Wales look like Dubai - unless it could grab the oil revenues, and the UK govt will never allow that.

Does anyone believe it? Unfortunately yes. Does anyone with a brain believe it? Arguably no :cool:.

There have been (real) missiles and guns fitted to my SA Bulldog in the past - I'm sure we'd be happy to fit them again :ok:. Unfortunately we removed the wiring looms to save weight but we've still got the trigger and selection knobs - and since it would only be a deterrent anyway as the SNP don't like real weapons - I think it would suit perfectly :eek:

http://www.sabulldogsusa.com/photos/31yP7_20110321.jpg

[10W]

Allocations of aircraft registrations and callsigns are managed by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, so it won't be anything to do with OFCOM, at least as far as aircraft are concerned. :ok:

The ITU will allocate the country prefix for Scotland (should this independence ever come to be) through ICAO to the national aviation authority. Don't see why this couldn't be 'S', as no one else currently uses that letter on its own.

[m.Berger]

Mc-XXXX, naturally.

[youngskywalker]

I'm pretty sure it wont happen! I'm Scottish ( although prefer saying British) dont personally know a single Scottish supporter for independance, I know plenty English supporters for it though! Although, if that big fat bag of wind - Salmond gets his way and the 16yr old kids of chavs get a vote then...

[Big Pistons Forever]

FO-XXX ? :8

[mad_jock]

I think youngskywalker has got it right.

Unfortunately there are some quite pro supporters in some bits of scotland with alot of rubbish "freedom" type chat.

Personally I think the 16 year old chav thing will balance out by the idiots not actually voting and the silent resonably educated/well brought up kids being taken to vote by there parents.

The whole logistics of seperating the systems I don't think has been thought through properly. Never mind the legal position of Scotland afterwards.

If the rest of the UK was allowed to vote as well scotland would be stuffed and out, but I suspect a load of money will be pissed up the wall. And even after the vote there will be alot of bitching if they don't get it. And if they do within 10 years there will be some sort of calamity.

Have to see what arrangements are going to be in place for the ex-pats. If they get to vote they haven't got a chance in hell of getting it through.

[mad_jock]

Just think though we could get our own RT and we could kick that ATSOCAS ****e into touch.

[youngskywalker]

And IF they do succeed then I'm off! Yorkshire I reckon, 'appen I'd like that. ;)

The whole subject does sadden me greatly however. A small minority of hardliners are making all the noise, the media down south are stirring it up to sound like we're all still a bunch of 'whinging rebellious jocks'. Take a read of some of the unbelievably biggoted threads about this on the mil' forum and see what I mean. I grow tired of it all. Scotland has served the Union well over the centuries and I'm sure it will continue to do so when comon sense prevails and Salmond dissapears into obscurity taking that odious women - Sturgeon with him.:ok:

[mad_jock]

If it does go through he will leg it to the european parliment (if they get in and I would wet myself laughing if they didn't and cheer at the same time.)

Then when it comes crashing down he will say its not his fault.

H'mm would we have to get another passport? Would we get to run two?

[Another_CFI]

I claim no originality for the following which I found on-line, but it does give a starting point for Scottish RT.

CAP 413 – Scottish Supplement

Acknowledge- Djaunnerstawn pal?
Affirmative Aye atsrite
Break Haudoan
Correction Aw$hit
How do you read? Ye got yer lugs oan?
I say again Wan-mer-time pal
Negative No-way pal
Over Over-innat
Out Am-oaf
Pass your message Geez-ra-patter
Read back Whit-did-ah-jist tell-ye?
Roger Okay pal
Say again Geez-ra-patter again
Speak slower Geez-it-in-inglish
Stand by Haud-oan-ahm-bizzy
That is correct Spot-oan / Thats-ra-game
Verify Yer-jokin
Wilco Nae-borra
Words twice Ah-cannae-unner-stawn, geez-ra-patter twice-ower
Cleared to land Get-oan-ra-grunn
Line up and hold Haudoan ra-tar
Cleared take off Oan-yer bike / Oan-yer way-pal

[mad_jock]

Thats the Southwest corners CAP 413.

There will be a Doric version for the Northeast.

There will also be a NW and SE version in the Queens English.

[BillieBob]

Don't see why this couldn't be 'S', as no one else currently uses that letter on its own.It doesn't quite work like that. A country may use a single letter prefix only if it is allocated the whole block from AA to ZZ. For example, the UK is allocated GAA-GZZ, MAA to MZZ and 2AA-2ZZ (among others). Hence G, M and 2 may (and are/will) all be used as single letter prefixes for aircraft registrations.

The block SAA-SZZ, however, is divided between Sweden, Poland, Egypt, Sudan and Greece and no country may therefore use S as a single-letter prefix.

[rateone]

And IF they do succeed then I'm off! Yorkshire I reckon, 'appen I'd like
that. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


The whole subject does sadden me greatly however. A small minority of hardliners
are making all the noise, the media down south are stirring it up to sound like
we're all still a bunch of 'whinging rebellious jocks'. Take a read of some of
the unbelievably biggoted threads about this on the mil' forum and see what I
mean. I grow tired of it all. Scotland has served the Union well over the
centuries and I'm sure it will continue to do so when comon sense prevails and
Salmond dissapears into obscurity taking that odious women - Sturgeon with
him.


I'm with YoungSkywalker on this one! Well said my man.

[jollyrog]

I don't see the harm in the English CAA continuing to administer aviation matters for an independent Scotland.

After all, there will be so many other English agencies/companies doing the same. The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations.

On the other hand, perhaps they'll really try to go it alone. Then, as the money runs out, things will break, everything will be knackered and Scotland will end up in the same sorry state that all the English colonies in Africa did after they cut the strings.

[dublinpilot]

So let me get this right.

The English invade Scotland, and occupy it for hundreds of years, take their oil reserves and take over all public institutions.

Then when the Scottish finially have their independence in sight again, the English are surprised that the Scotts might have some difficulty getting things up and running again :}

And to just to make sure that the Scotts will have difficulty being self sufficient, the English will be hanging onto the oil reserves off the Scottish coast, for no other reason other than that they are too valuable to give back to the Scottish. :ouch:

I can see plenty of reasons why there *should* be some subsidy from England to Scotland until they get themselves up and running as an independent country again. ;)

dp

[astir 8]

Don't forget that the Shetlanders will in turn want independence from Scotland (why not Alex, you started it)

And it's not Scotland's oil it's mostly Shetland's oil!

But we're going off topic here. If Scotland can't have S-REG, then I still vote for MJ-REG

p.s. Dublinpilot, Scotts make the porridge. Scots come from Scotland

[peterh337]

The problem with that reasoning, DP, is that you then roll back 99% of national frontiers to some arbitrary locations, 99% of museums in the west would be emptied (with the contents going back to the "savages" who will sell it off to private collectors in the west)... you get my drift I am sure :)

We have to work with the frontiers as they stand today.

I come from Czechoslovakia, where nobody wants to grab back the bit of Slovakia which the Russians grabbed in WW2. And just as well the Germans don't want to grab back their old bits ;)

Scotland is in the UK. It's also (like Wales) a rather poor part of the UK, relying heavily on subsidies. Half the place is an impoverished council estate (like Wales). Same with N Ireland. But one could say the same for any country. In the USA, I am sure California is massively subsidising the rest, especially e.g. Utah.

But tongue in cheek aside, I can't see Scotland going independent. It would work if they get the oil, but when that runs out, some decades from now, the place will sink into a hole, with massive emigration, and much of the population will be on the English council house waiting list (along with Romania, allegedly...).

[steveppl09]

This should really be sub-titled - 'Hey, I learned something off the tele!'

@dublinpilot
Watched a program called Coast on the TV which talked about how Scotland lost its independence.

It came about because the nobles in Scotland got themselves into deep financial problems investing in a colony that made them pretty much bankrupt. The deal was that by becoming a United Kingdom the English would pay off the debt! It was deeply unpopular with the person in the street but it was all about the money. After resisting all the invasions and everything else it was Scotland's own nobles who did it to get the money they had lost in their own bad investment back.

So (just for the fun of it) to counter your proposal - does the Scottish oil cover the initial bailing out?? <== Not being serious here btw :E

For anyone who is interested: see wikipedia for more details
Treaty of Union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Union)
Darien scheme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dari%C3%A9n_scheme)

As for aircraft prefix I think it should be the range IRN-BRU

[jollyrog]

dp - I don't think the English invaded them, both became friends 300 years ago and decided to be one happy club. Since then, England has been kindly sending taxes North to keep them afloat.

As for the oil, it's in International waters and it was English money and know how that paid for it to be dug up, offering them them employment in the process. It's English oil and the Scottish claim to it, on the basis of proximity is as without merit as Argentina's claim to the Falklands for the same reason.

I don't think there's any just cause to fund another nation after the split. Everyone knows that if you don't have any money, you just join the Euro, bust your economy then go begging to the French and Germans. Simples!

[Mixed Up]

It would work if they get the oil, but when that runs out, some decades from now, the place will sink into a hole, with massive emigration, and much of the population will be on the English council house waiting list (along with Romania, allegedly...).


They'd be as poor as Norway.

[Dan the weegie]

Let me be clear first, I have no desire to have s
Scotland as an independent state, it just doesn't seem to be a good thing to me. However there's an awful lot of rubbish being talked about :).

Why is it that people seem to be fixated on oil?
There is oil, it's worth a lot but it is not the only thing going for Scotland and a great deal of the tax generated in Scotland by the oil comes not from the oil itself but from the businesses based in Scotland and the workers who live there - that aren't going anywhere :). In fact I rather suspect, as a much smaller country Scotland would be far more successful in collecting taxes from certain businesses that the UK have been as a whole (Amazon, Starbucks, Ikea et al)
There are financial institutions who are very successful indeed, not owned in any way by the tax payer that are 100% Scottish.
There are legal firms who already make a killing from the different legal systems. They will do very well from a split.
There is Whiskey which is worth a lot more than you think.
not to mention tourism and other things, like Golf (although I can't think why :D)
It's also quite a pretty place :)
My understanding is that we are one of the worlds largest exporter of carbon fiber (although I could be wrong). And it seems quite popular.
We have high tech and drug companies who wouldn't go anywhere.
There are excellent educational facilities a few of whom would thrive without the shackles that the big westminster government put on them.

It is not by any means an unattractive place to live if it was it's own state - but I'm not convinced there is a compelling reason to separate.
There are several countries of similar size population wise who do very well but just because that's true it doesn't provide a good reason to split.

There was no invasion that precipitated the act of Union that bound the countries to be Great Britain. It's not like people came along with big sticks and knocked a flag in the ground :).

Things that bug me about it all,
The rest of the UK should be voting on allowing any part to split from it, sadly this would actually significantly improve Scotland's chances of independence. But just because I don't agree with that perspective it doesn't mean it's not the right way to do it.
I kind of object to paying for 3 or 4 layers of government, they don't even do this in the USA. It's enormously wasteful. The Westminster government should definitely shrink to compensate for the fact that there are governments in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
I wonder why it is that it is believed that only institutionally racist people want independence, yes there are people like that but I know of some extremely bright well read people who are pro independence, I am neither erudite nor pro independence but I still find it a little insulting. Alex Salmond despite his position on the whole topic, is in fact an excellent parliamentarian and one of the few politicians around it seems that is interested in saying what he actually thinks for the benefit of the people he is speaking for. He's amazingly clever, you'd be making a mistake getting into an arguement with him, a fact learned by the previous government in Westminster and they were bloody glad when he left for Scotland.
The CAA in England is hobbled by EASA, Scotlands own CAA would probably be hobbled in the same way but to a lesser degree because it would be so small that you would know everyone there and you couldn't be lost under a pile of paper, or in a queue of calls for 50 minutes just to get an answer to an email you sent to them 3 weeks ago. This is actually one thing I would greatly desire, I've witnessed first hand how much better a small CAA works. The service levels could not be any worse than they are now.

[Silvaire1]

In the USA, I am sure California is massively subsidising the rest, especially e.g. Utah.I kind of object to paying for 3 or 4 layers of government, they don't even do this in the USA.States in the US do not greatly subsidise each other, and there is indeed no layering of government. States have independent, unmixed state budgets collected from their own economy. They delegate limited powers upward to the Federal government, but do not send money upwards. The Feds meanwhile collect their taxes independently and in principle do stuff applicable to interstate and foreign affairs. The Federal 'foreign affairs' role is why foreigners often see the US as having a single, unified government... which internally it does not.

That explained, I can assure you that Utah government is a great deal more financially sound than that of California or the Feds! Decadence does not breed financial solvency, regardless of economic scale.

http://monetarilyspeaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/f729t-shortfalls-for-fy2013-in-a-report-by-wells-f.jpg

If I were in Scotland I would be attracted to independence for only one reason - the possibility to leave the EU.

[Whopity]

If I were in Scotland I would be attracted to independence for only one reason - the possibility to leave the EU.But Scotland has always been closer to France than England!

[astir 8]

Dan the Weegie

fer the love of God, the blessed drink made in Scotland is whisky, not that horrible whiskey made in other countries to be left nameless!:=

If independence does come, I'm sure misspelling whisky will become a criminal offence!

[Dan the weegie]

It is not going to be possible for either Scotland or the UK to secede from the EU, despite the huge amount of rhetoric around it.

Astir it's lucky Scotland isn't going to be independent then :) otherwise MJ will be in the clink for years for a variety of crimes against spelling and grammar, not just for being a sausage of the gentleman variety.

[mad_jock]

Where as you will be in the clink for sexual assault/rape of runways across multiple countries.

Remember to ask for the 1000's of other landings to be taken into consideration when they sentence you for the token one. :p

[charliegolf]

The Act of Independence will be signed on Fantasy Island. At the half time break in the stadium on the same day Swansea beat Barca 5-0 in the Champions League final. I will have had a hat-trick.

So it's not that unlikely then!

CG

[Steve6443]

I don't see the harm in the English CAA continuing to administer aviation matters for an independent Scotland.

After all, there will be so many other English agencies/companies doing the same. The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations.


Four reasons why this will not be allowed to happen.

1) Cost - these services would have to be paid for, could you seriously imagine that England would continue to burden itself with costs for areas of activity which it is not longer concerned with, without any recompense? This money would be taken from the new Scottish Governments coffers, meaning the government would have a deficit for a service it could easily handle itself.

2) Related to cost, the Scots would never accept any figure that the English CAA would quote for administering their aviation matters - I mean, do you share costs based on number of airfields, annual movements, size of the respective airspaces or number of pilots?

3) Once they have their independence, why would they want to employ a "southerner" rather than a fellow Scot?

4) Imagine the outcry.... it would be like England going to France and asking them to control our civil aviation...

[Crash one]

4) Imagine the outcry.... it would be like England going to France and asking them to control our civil aviation...

Or Brussels.....

[thing]

The English invade Scotland,DP it was the French that invaded Scotland. Certainly past Longshanks day the court language in England was French. Don't forget the buggers had just invaded us.

Plus just over 400 years ago a Scots King became the King of England, so it's not quite as clear cut as you think.

Edit: plus most of Scotland live and work in England...:) Shall we send them back?

[xrayalpha]

OK,

Scotland and aviation:

Revenue streams:
Fees for aircraft registration etc. Could be more since there must be a reason for Isle of Mna, Jersey, San Marino to get involved?
Fees for navigation: Iceland gets a good income from transatlantic nav fees, since even though it costs more in fuel to route through their area, it saves a fortune on charges. An opportunity for Scotland there too - if my sources in NATS are true.
APD fees: opportunity to reduce those, so "reduction" in income there, but then might create benefit in more tourist traffic. Perhaps "neutral" with independence
Use as a hub: strategic location on edge of Atlantic and "fog-free" Prestwick becoming more and more irrelevant with modern equipment and longer range aircraft: loss of revenue there, but that is not due to independence.
Fuel duty etc: A chance, only because of a change of government, that we might get cheaper Avgas? After all, the story of BAe flight training at Prestwick, and the flight training at Scone, might resonate better with "local" politicians?

Those are thoughts that come to mind right away.

Now, of course, we could look at trying to get them added to the existing "devolved" powers. That has happened in Northern Ireland with APD.

Might be worth reminding ourselves what those are, simply because "independence" will not change that.

Scotland already has a unique legal system, and police force.
Scotland already has a unique education system.
Scotland has unique building and planning regulations: tell me about them!
Transport is also a Scottish function: so ScotRail is tendered for by Holyrood. Roads and bridges etc are decided by Holyrood.

I am sure there are more, but I am no politician.

So with independence, none of that will change.

What do we have on a UK basis:
Diplomacy: do we need many embassies etc nowadays. Canadians (with a very healthy economy) are looking at sharing facilities etc.
Military: who is going to invade? Perhaps we would be better spending money on ships and aircraft that can provide medical aid to others (ie like Orbis etc) So no job losses, no spending cuts, just different priorities?
Taxes: VAT, Capital Gains Tax, Corporation Tax. Well, we could be like Ireland and attract Google with lower taxes? So might be an advantage as independent.
Border control: well, that is a joke anyway. Check out Surinder Singh and the Lille Loophole. Or the closure of the border post at Stranraer because it is an "internal frontier" - except that there is no border control in Ireland!

Gosh. Taking control of these is really really important, stops me from sleeping at night..... not.

Independence will make me £200 a year worse off, or £200 a year better off? Who cares: it is not even a packet of fags a week!

It is really all a matter of heart, and not head.

It will neither be the end of the world or the start of a brave new one.

[maxred]

Four reasons why this will not be allowed to happen.

Carefull Steve, many things happen, when they are either not allowed, nor even considered a possibility.:=

Look at our resident war criminal, Mr S..., on Channel 4 last night, Rendition, what me????????????Certainly not us..........Might live to regret that.:sad:

Anyway, X ray, clever and thoughtful post, and pulled up some stuff I had not even thought of.

Scottish independence, is a heart matter, not a mind matter. I agree with X ray, that when it all settles down, I really do not think it would make much difference financially, given that the UK is totally bust at the moment, and we are all struggling. Maybe, just maybe, we would be better on our own. Never know until we try it. Anyway, I will stay on N-Reg, flying on my dual papers;)

[MalteseJambo]

Scottish administration generally doing very well and could do better if independent.

And before anyone shoots this down; its an opinion based on facts; not on prejudice and fear :)

[EGPF_guy]

Ex-pats can't vote. Scottish nationalism is about letting the people who live in Scotland decide what is best for our future - it doesn't matter if you're "pure" Scottish; if you don't live here you shouldn't have a say in our politics. (to mad_jock)

To jollyrog's remark: "The tax revenues from working Scots (there aren't many of them, are there?) are hardly going to sustain the infrastructure paid for, built and maintained at English expense over generations." - are you having a laugh? Politicians from both the yes and no campaigns have admitted an independent Scotland will fully be able to fund itself. Also, go read some proper sources about the economics of Scotland and the UK before commenting with your tabloid-sourced "facts". Scotland has been running a surplus for a good while - certainly the same cannot be said for the outdated Union of countries as a whole. The savings to be made in an independent Scotland are huge. No trident renewal (£100bn total UK contribution), Westminster (£50m), House of Lords (£100m?), Scottish Office (£10m), Defence (£1bn as Scotland's share - yet more money will be spent in Scotland!). So go read something decent then come back and talk about our economy. And just for the extra, here's some extra info RE "the country that doesny work": Scotland has ~8.5% of UK population, pays 9.9% of UK tax and receives 9.3% of UK spending.
Fellow Scots: read up on the Barnett formula and how it works and you will see that the Tories continual privatisation of England will hurt us VERY badly.

To astir_8: Unfortunately Shetland cannot gain independence due to its size, as per international conventions.

To Thing: RE "sending them back". A lot of 'English' folk live in Scotland too. They're more than welcome. Scottish Nationalism is in no way fascist. Keep the UK that way, old chap ;)

End of rant. Sorry but it just annoys me when people who are clearly ignorant of facts choose to bring up their, as I said, tabloid-sourced nonsense and try to brainwash others with scaremongering as has been done to them.

We will still be friends if/when we become independent, England ;)