newbie needing advice

[jeedy]

hi

im new to PPRuNe but its a wealth of knowledge to someone like me who is looking to get into the aviation industry. at present im still saving up to go through at first my ppl but then on to my atpl in the future. inergrated training is not an option for me in my family sitation so its going to be the modular training route.
costs are high though and jobs aren't garunteed so i was wondering if buying a light plane could be a feasable way of keeping my costs down.
my questions are
could i use it for my own training?
could i rent out the aircraft?
what sort of insurance do i need ?
does anyone have a rough idea of costs of owning an aircraft i.e. servicing, insurance, parking or anything else ive not thought about?

thanks in advance

[Pudzilla]

Have you taken any trial lessons? Or flown in the past?

[RTN11]

Buying a whole aircraft yourself would not get costs down.

Owning an aircraft you have the fixed costs of insurance, maintenance and hangerage/parking. A flying school has these same costs, but is able to split them over the 500+ hours their aircraft fly every year, whereas you would never be able to fly close to that.

The cheapest way to operate an aircraft is in a group/share agreement, and you could well be part of a group and be taught on that aircraft, but the other group members may not want that and insurance could be an issue.

The other option would be to buy an aircraft and then lease it to the flying school, that way they take care of most of the fixed costs so when you want to go for a lesson you only pay the variable costs, fuel, oil, engine fund etc.

The other thing to consider is that if you own the aircraft you are learning in and then it goes down for maintenance, you are stuck on the ground, where as a flying school has plenty of other aircraft to keep you in the air.

[mary meagher]

And another way of getting your flying at low cost nearly never mentioned is to learn in a motor glider. Falke costs can be as low as £50 ph, and that's when the engine is running....

[jeedy]

hi guys
yeah iflew in the air cadets and have 3 hours so far.
i was considering the leasing it out option but i dont know if school/ clubs like doing that
does a slmg count for your hours? i was told it dosent
thanks

[AdamFrisch]

I'm not sure I agree. As usual, it depends. Yes, the more hours you fly, the less it will cost per hour. But depending on type of aircraft and where and how you keep it, that break even can come a lot earlier. I think owning a Cessna 152 made headway already at 40-50hrs/year, so if you're planning on time building, then it could make sense. Some of the LAA types will probably break even earlier.

[flybymike]

It always bears repeating.

If it flies, floats or f***s, rent it.

[Crash one]

Nice to know who else is F****** it if you want to be a regular though.

Apart from that. Join the LAA, find out about the Pilot Coaching Scheme, Join your local Strut (East of Scotland) & ask questions. PM if you need more.

[Ebbie 2003]

No so sure about the "3F rent it" thing - I have seen surpried that since buying my PA28 at just how much it has bought in through renting, although I do have one of a very limited number of airplances available for rent at my home airport.

That said if one has the funds to buy an airplane suitable for training (assume IFR) then it seems a better bet to put that money into a career programme - far more predictable outcome.

[pfeinstein]

I'd highly recommend renting schemes, either in the form of a club membership or pooling your resources with 2-5 other friends, depending on the usage you anticipate giving the aircraft. Flying clubs, though more expensive if you calculate the hourly rate, are more flexible, since they allow a non-regular use at relatively low rates.

[Rod1]

could i use it for my own training?
could i rent out the aircraft?
what sort of insurance do i need ?
does anyone have a rough idea of costs of owning an aircraft i.e. servicing, insurance, parking or anything else ive not thought about?

If you buy a suitable LAA aircraft you could use it for training (not sure under new rules), you cannot rent it out.

“Buying a whole aircraft yourself would not get costs down.”

Lets look at some numbers;

If you learn on a C152 at my local club the cost of the aircraft for 60 hours is £8400. (this is all midlands based – some of the numbers are likely to vary from area to area)

If you were to buy a Europa tri gear LAA aircraft for around £30k, fly it for 60h over the year and then sell it you would probably get about £30k assuming you did not bend it.

Fuel for 60h is about £1450
Insurance £1500
Maintenance £500
Hangarage £1000
Instructor £900 (is it legal to pay an instructor on an LAA machine?)

Total £5400

Saving £3000

I suspect you would have to go NPPL and then convert to an EASA PPL – but that would not eat £3000? I have an acquaintance that bought a P300 brand new, did his PPL in her over a very short time and some years later, still has the aircraft. He saved a lot of cash.

Rod1
NB you need to check on the license stuff as I am not up to date.

[jeedy]

yeah i remember seeing a europa at an airshow a while back when i was in the atc. its a stunning little plane and i would jump at the chance to buy one but 30 k is a little out of my price range. i've seen a few C152/150 for around 9-15 k does anyone own one or know how much that would cost me in the year?
thanks