How do you deal with customer pressure?

[Decredenza]

I guess this is one way.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/p3jfgB5MYTc9p2iHoc9McTVT_jgMHZfHCQi76Z5lxMprd2mgcnXnt1TjZxmL RF1bGVeXWbOsHuoLspz-ZwWmGFDLqfpyVg70ZRO3FCAJVRi4HFBDQa6kwfhI2BYXqPJlu2MLl8z55peZ D5DQL5I99il5n7Qv3U5KknZmLhBxumhY7A2PA5JKPzuowoE4U9o1A0bVKAFi Xp-ePnS8gRqK81N8C_GBDq4Dhc3WuI23W7oDwzxg1as9-eFRHKaP2BRRP4UWbL-ew4yWLABxTDDratZvMn5Q2tD7GxEPIU6XNm4O3lY6opIwsP1a_MfNCaKDT5K P8Vh6N9yyHkfeiu10_mL8wzi9EtY4127U-y5rm5JDkKMCY2sWGpKmW2QcmUzmHtiJ3uQXgiCuTfIi_LlYWzRTFEjeGkaGm f1s_OwJQjfWbQ_zrpl1eKmP1pITzi1oSgjL41diLP6RusRACZuRTW-FfrfZgyURSQ2ZTdCTyGTLu9cFPLk-Ya-WZ886yXXApqZVbUovv3g1Ds4jd01vIv58flmNMZ1vuwWi3k1I2yN3dHex7nd PWVCVKomtEGrl6N9GoAfGntgn4cs1OfefPH3iEhaH_fYnpEHqyTxxzU_BPp-e_A=w1000-h665-no

Trying to achieve the balance between pleasing the customer (and keeping your job) and being safe is sometimes very difficult.

Unless there is a locked door between the passengers and the pilot there will be interaction (or even pressure) to fly / land / lift close to or beyond the edge.

Any tips from your experience?

[Sir Korsky]

If you launched in error or experienced unforecast weather enroute, then turning around and going back is always a wise choice. Giving the customer options, we can do this, this or this while airborne, also keeps the heat off. If your customers are seasoned, experienced passengers then they are likely to understand and will put it down to calculated risk. The FAA want you to land anywhere safe or climb to a safe altitude if possible and call approach or 121.5. They would rather you were not a statistic so they have published this advice. If your turn around costs you your job, then so be it.

[Grenville Fortescue]

They would rather you were not a statistic so they have published this advice.

Sir Korsky, do you have a link to any publication supporting this. I would like to read what they have written in this regard.

[Sir Korsky]

All in the rotorcraft flying handbook, instrument procedures handbook and helicopter instrument procedures handbook. All available free from a google search!:)

[Neptunus Rex]

Any tips from your experience? Many moons ago - ie before 911 and the subsequent constraints with cockpit doors - our flight was subjected to weather delay. Whilst we waited for the forecast improvement, I was talking to a passenger in First Class, when we both observed one of our competitors take off. My passenger asked why the other jet could take off, when we were still waiting. I told him that the other jet's Captain was not responsible for his life, whereas I was, and that we would take off when I deemed it safe to do so. His reply?
"Thank you Captain, I am happy to be flying with you," and shook my hand.

[Ian Corrigible]

You need a role model, someone who has developed a special relationship with his customers:

Meet Wisconsin's entrepreneur of the year (http://www.journaltimes.com/business/local/owner-of-closed-bare-coffee-blames-public-drc-and-others/article_194893c0-7122-11e2-b00a-001a4bcf887a.html)

I/C

Apologies for the tangent...

[Fareastdriver]

I told him that the other jet's Captain was not responsible for his life

That's a pretty standard story, but it should read,"I told him that the other jet's Captain was not responsible for MY life,"

When I used to fly offshore in the East China Sea I would look at a wall of cu-nimbs between us and and the coast and I used to say"bollocks to that until it clears up," and when the day was over my pax would always buy me a beer in the club."

[SASless]

There's Government Rules, Company Rules, and my Rules.

When all three are met....I go.

When they don't....I don't.

When I am comfortable with going, meaning all the rules are met, then I will go....and not until then.

The most important of my rules is that once I have made the decision not to go....thus using that horrible word "NO!"....until something significant changes that makes the original decision obsolete....the more pressure that is applied makes my response all the more firm and in time blunt.

No one is more concerned about my health, wealth, and well being than I am....and no one has as much interest in those things for me than I do.

If you are confronted with someone trying to force, urge, cajole, convince you to "GO"....point them to the aircraft, tell them the keys are in it, and tell tp tell you how it turned out when they get back.....then go back to drinking yer Tea.

If you are right....they will usually walk off. If they are wrong....they will usually show their Ass and then walk off mad.

Either way....you are the PIC and responsible for your passengers well being, your bosses Aircraft, and your own life. If yer Boss fires you....you should not have been working for the Prick anyway.

I have gotten Old by saying "NO! I never wanted for a Job....as I was right and the folks knew it....even if they never admitted it.

Don't know if that helped but that is an old Coot's views.

[Decredenza]

There are no old bold pilots.

The above responses have shown some very good decision making on the part of the contributors.

Have you ever had to deal with the subtle pressure of support of a safety decision from the higher ups and then less flying in the future because of it?

[SASless]

Have you ever experienced the loss of flying an accident creates for you?

If your Safety Culture is such that Management punishes you for obeying their own Safety Rules....run away....run...run...run.

[ShyTorque]

I tell my passengers that I'm responsible both morally and in law for their safety (as well as my own) and that unfortunately sometimes the only safe option is not to take off in the first place.

Problem comes when they can find some other fool who is willing to say yes and risk everyone's safety, either out of commercial pressure or just inexperience/ignorance.

One thing's for certain though. After every accident you will find people taking very large steps backwards to avoid being implicated in any way.

[pilot and apprentice]

There are all kinds out there.

One memorable one....had a customer who wanted a fairly basic survey/recce job in an R44. Summer, some altitude, neither of us is small, in an Alpha, and I was unwilling to put it into all the little holes he wanted. He started (with the blatant assumption I was another 100-hr pilot, ink still fresh, etc) telling me how his experience exceeded mine, I should learn to listen to him, that he needed to get it all done today, etc, etc, etc. I let him go on for a while then explained I was one of the company check and training pilots, was more than willing to call it a day if he even hinted at second guessing me again, and I would be on every charter he had with us in the future if this continued. After some discussion, we found some middle ground.

My point is, these guys are out there, they are ultimately paying the bills, and finding a way to deal with them is necessary.

[Joker's Wild]

When I first started out in this business, oh so many moons ago, I realised very quickly how some customers would attempt to pressure me into things that just did not sound like such a good idea. The wx was clearly sh!tty, both me and the customer knew before hitting the start button the chances of completing the sortie were less than 50/50.

After a while, I worked it out that if I told the customer BEFORE we launched I still expected him to sign the flight report after we got back, mission completed or not, that I was happy to at least give it a try. At that point I usually found myself having time to enjoy another cuppa java until the wx improved.

[Vertical Freedom]

hehehehe I tell my customer; 'the keys are in it & they can take the beasty machine to their death, but I'm staying here for a coffee' :uhoh::mad::\

[oleary]

A bung wrench in the teeth?


... oh, .... wait, ... I'm retired :)

[topendtorque]

The worst the company can do to you if you refuse a flight/return due to wx, is to fire you.I would respectfully disagree there. The pilots should all have been briefed that the decision is theirs and that the company will stand by them. That gives them better decision making confidence. Like parents, if you think the pilot was a bit jumpy never discuss it in front of the children. Good staff always know they have the confidence of the boss.

Back in the good ol' days we had many mining clients who knew we had newbies, but trained to a standard, we called survey standard. . The orders would come down from the boss Geo with whom we spoke, who were excellent people, what was going to happen and how the field team were to look after the pilots and help them. I remember many of them with great fondness, one in particular from Rio Tinto in Brisbane.

Nowadays of course Geo's are a dime a dozen who as the thread shows, may expect lots with little sympathy.

[John Eacott]

The worst the company can do to you if you refuse a flight/return due to wx, is to fire you.

I had an early exposure to a different culture when moving from the North Sea to the North West of Oz, where the company manager was firmly on the side of the client to the detriment of the operation. I was pressured by the client's rep to have the Wessex running for a hot load departure as the midnight horror from Perth was late and time to get out and back to the rig with the return load was marginal.

A degree of caution made me very thorough with the preflight and manning up, despite repeated hurry ups: basically there was no way I was going to hot load pax from an overnight flight. Sure enough, one was so tired and emotional that his mates were carrying him across to the Wessex, and after some discussion he was left behind to sober up. Remember, the driver in the Wessex sat up in splendid isolation from the talking ballast downstairs: unable to control anyone who may decide that a visit to the door at 4,00ft over the Timor Sea would be a good idea to offload the effects of overnight drinking, with a possible triple somersault on the way down after falling out. This was single pilot with two hot refuels outbound, again on the rig, then a further refuel home all in 35C or higher with the pax wandering around while you pumped fuel and moved drums!

You would expect proper support for a safety decision from such an esteemed company as Bristow operating for Woodside: right? 9 hours later I had hardly shut down when summoned to ring the manager in Perth in order to be measured for a new one: upsetting the client, how dare you jumped up Poms come here with such ideas and attitudes, etc. Safety? Rubbish, no one has ever refused a passenger before.

It was a pleasure to take a job offer from Okanagan and fly with one of the best Chief Pilots I have ever known, Dave Whyte. Total support for the crews and a thoroughly professional outlook on aviation, one of the good guys. Even if he was a Kiwi :ok:

[Art of flight]

'Swinging the lamp' from my Army days, the Generals ADC (captain) wants to know why I'm calling to cancel as the general can't be expected to be driven 4 hours to his meeting. I gave him the odds...50% out of limits at take off time....30% getting a few miles along track and having to turn back...10% chance of getting there and 10% chance of killing all of us, ask the general if he's willing to die today rather than take the car?

[JTobias]

Hi

Ask them if they want to get there late and alive, or never and dead?

Joel :ok:

[griffothefog]

What pressure? :cool::=

[topendtorque]

What pressure?This comment and thread reminds me of a funny and true (i heard it with my own ears) anecdote in the field of cricket commentary.

Up in the box with a famous commentator was a guest, an ex cricketer of renown who had been a Battle of Britain pilot.I.E another god.

He got a bit uptight about the continual comments of "pressure" the players were supposedly under.

Finally - he retorted - "Pressure you wouldn't know what pressure was until you had a Messerschmidt up yer ar*e".

It had the necessary salutary effect.

[mickjoebill]

Whatever the cause, what tragic irony I feel... whilst we try to improve safety by posting about "doors-off" filming and this particular thread about client pressure we lose colleagues in an aerial filming accident at 03.40 hrs during a TV shoot.

We can hope that the cause was a set of circumstances out of the control of those involved.


Mickjoebill

[topendtorque]

2sticks has posted just below re Paraguayan accident, perhaps the threads could be combined. In any event here is a quote from the article he linked to it. Sums this thread up quite nicely.

One report from neighbouring Argentin (http://www.primeraedicionweb.com.ar/nota/digital/68013/aseguran-que-el-piloto-intento-disuadir-a-oviedo-de-volar-el-sabado-por-la-noche.html)a says that the planned departure time for the R44 of 7.15pm was put back to 9.00pm and that the pilot had raised two objections to flying - firstly that the R44 was not suitably equipped for night flight, and secondly that there was an approaching storm front between the departure point at Concepcion and the intended destination at Asuncion. The report goes on to say that Oviedo insisted that the flight went ahead. The wreckage was found the following day.

[azim]

a lot of good advice in the threads. If a client still wants a go at it after me telling them about the wx and stuff, I tell them they still have to pay even if we get stranded somewhere plus waiting and other costs. And I will land even before I get uncomfortable with the situation. Has never happen twice with the same clients tho.

[MightyGem]

My company once advised a customer that it was unlikely that they could get him to his destination(on high ground) due to the weather. They could land him at an airfield an arrange onward transport. He came back and said that he'd found someone else who could do it.

A few days later he got in contact again to say that his pilot had scared both of them half to death in the weather and had dropped at the above airfield from where he had to make his own arrangements. Said he wouldn't question their decision again.

[SASless]

I hope the company raised rates on him.....as their original agreement went out the door when he decided to go with the other operator. That was my policy.....loyalty was rewarded.....dis-loyalty was penalized.

[gulliBell]

This topic might also be extended to employer pressure as well....i have, but only very rarely, been subject to pressure from customers regarding operational aspects of a task. I find that easy to deal with, and in-fact it's simply part-and-parcel of the job. I have never had difficulty with a customer past that point once I've had my input to the equation.

What is fundamentally more difficult to deal with is employer pressure, which I see far more frequently than coming from customers. How to deal with that, whilst preserving your employment, is far more challenging with greater implications that just telling a client straight when faced with the same pressure.

[alouette3]

Lots of good stuff here on this thread.However, it seems to be slanted towards charter and off shore work.There is a lot of pressure on EMS pilots too.In the US, the hospital based system, where the medical crew are the "customers" and the base is run by a flight nurse,is notorious for putting pressure on pilots to fly under less than ideal circumstances.Add to that is the pressure pilots put on themselves with the mistaken notion that, if they don't take this trip:
(a) The patient will die.
(b) I will get fired and will have to move out of my hometown and Billy's ballet classes and Melinda's soccer career will come to an end.
(c) I will have to go back to (heaven forbid!) flying oil workers in the GOM and so on and so forth-----.
It is all well and good to kick the customer in the teeth,and, I suspect,some of these anecedotes are apocryphal,but if your company does not support you (as most EMS companies won't, including the Largest Air Ambulance Company In The World ) you are toast.
Bottom line,one has to walk the fine line between customer service,judgement and safety on a daily basis.That is what you get paid for.
Or did you think you were hired for your good looks and stick actuating skills ??!:E
Alt3

[Brilliant Stuff]

Alouette3 you nailed it! When are they gonna grow up???

[krypton_john]

Press the button:

http://www.radesignz.com/graphics/misc/eject600dpi.jpg

[topendtorque]

I must respectfully point out that A3 stuffed up with one small item.

Billy's ballet classes

All good families in the past used to have one turn to the cloth, now a fair dinkum helicopter pilot should at least have one as a piano player!

[Decredenza]

So it sounds like everyone is able to handle customer and even management pressures - what about self imposed pressure?

http://www.justhelicopters.com/Portals/5/Gallery/Album/34/Nightmares_1.jpg

I.E. Those times where others have done a job but you are at the edge of your ability (minimal power, space in a confined, weather that might or might not be good enough, precision with a long line or a landing) where you know that there is very little margin but if things go well you will get the job done (and you get the rewards that come form success).

How do you handle that?

[alouette3]

Decredenza,
Self imposed pressure is probably the most difficult to deal with and the most dangerous.And,the further you are into the task at hand (i.e patient already on board,last load of the day,returning home with the boss on board etc) the tougher it gets to turn the bus around.
By definition "self imposed" implies "not applied externally".I have seen my own company use that phrase often to cover their asses.
"We have never pressured anyone to fly in those conditions,infact we have rules to prevent them from doing it,after all, safety is our number one priority.This was a case of self imposed pressure."
See what I mean?
Alt3.