how high?

[FleetFlyer]

Can anyone tell me if there is anywhere in the south of England that one can fly very high? I'm talking 20,000' plus. I don't have my charts to hand and was just wondering.

[rob_k31]

East Anglia or the South-West maybe.

Try SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/)

[thing]

Depends what you mean by southern England. If you mean literally the southern half of England then yes, southern Lincolnshire, Norfolk and bits of the other attached counties are limited only by the performance of your a/c.

[wb9999]

And it's Class C airspace above FL195. CAA 500k charts only cover up to FL195, so I'm guessing some other kind of chart would be needed for 20,000+ feet. SkyDemon doesn't cover above FL195.

[phiggsbroadband]

Hi, I see that you have an NPPL so you are restricted to the types of a/c that run out of aspiration above fl120. Also you would too, and would need Oxygen above Fl100.
Some gliders manage that sort of altitude, with Oxygen, on a good Wave day, but only very rarely.
If you really need to be above FL200 get a cheap flight with Easy-Jet....

[dublinpilot]

Also you would too, and would need Oxygen above Fl100.

I'm pretty sure that I read recently that it's only required above FL130 in the UK, but of course the general recommendation is to use it abouve FL100.

dp

[Mark 1]

I'm pretty sure that I read recently that it's only required above FL130 in the UK, but of course the general recommendation is to use it abouve FL100.
Art. 92 applies so you can fly up to 30 minutes between FL100-130 without (supplemental) oxygen.

There are plenty of aircraft within the NPPL restrictions that can reach those altitudes. A Vans RV-7 recently flew above 26,000' without turbocharging. Above 18,000' masks rather than cannulas are recommended and that increases the flow rates considerably.

VFR in Class C is permitted with a clearance of course, but it might be advisable to make some prior arrangements. Also I'm not sure that your altitude encoder needs to be certified to the planned altitude. Many of them are only tested to 20,000'.

[G-OE]

we havnt had a day where you can remain in sight of surface at 20,000 ft for a while.

[FleetFlyer]

So, is there anybody out there that knows of somewhere in the UK where one could fly up to 25,000', if so inclined?

[wb9999]

As stated above, only with ATC clearance, as it's Class C above FL195 across all of the UK (and Europe).

Here's an extract from the CAA website:
Civil VFR flights at and above FL195, up to and including FL285, will only be authorised in an airspace reservation or in accordance with the authorisation procedures published in the UK AIP. Civil VFR flights wishing to operate above FL285 will only be permitted in an airspace reservation.

Have a read of http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/1239/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf

[Prop swinger]

Permitting Gliders to Access Class C Airspace in TRA(G)’s from here (http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/airspace/loas.htm). Also ENR 6_3_0_3.

[stevelup]

we havnt had a day where you can remain in sight of surface at 20,000 ft for a while.

Good job that rule no longer applies then ;)

[mary meagher]

Thank you, PropSwinger, for posting the link to the British Gliding Association listing of letters of agreement for flying in ye upper air spaces.

We do it on a regular basis, but under strict conditions, enforced by the club that has the permission, to comply with our concessions. And we generally use oxygen, above 10,000 feet....definitely above 12,000 feet anyhow! Some of us manage to qualify for the gold or the diamond gain of height above the low point at which the tug plane relases us, or above the low point you descend to while scrabbling to stay up at all at all....my personal best was 20,300 above a release height of about 3,000 feet from Deeside Gliding Club near Aboyne, in Scotland.

I had the pleasure of looking down on three bodies of water from that altitude,
the Murray Firth, the Firth of Forth, and the North Sea! The weather was sunny, but not warm, as I was trolling back and forth along the wave, the canopy frosted up on the shady side, and a banana in the pocket of the glider became a banana popsicle! The flight lasted slightly less than two hours, so the conditions were pretty good.

If anyone reading this would like to try for altitude by wave flying, I can offer a few tips. Gliders work better than power planes at doing this, by the way.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Stevelup in sight of surface rule no longer exists?

Tell me more please (im not being a typical pprunner i really dont know)

[India Four Two]

This thread reminded me of a magazine article I read many years ago. Luckily, it's on the web (but no photos):

Fournier Forums | Thread - Taking a 1600VW Turbulent to 21,500 feet (http://sbeaver.com/cgi-bin/fournier/cutecast.pl?session=PfpEKw9dpuNoJNki7oFjtm1dnj&forum=18&thread=944)

[stevelup]

Stevelup in sight of surface rule no longer exists?

Tell me more please (im not being a typical pprunner i really dont know)

Since last April when UK issued JAR-FCL licenses effectively became Part-FCL ones.

More detail here... (http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/485942-when-does-sight-surface-end.html)

[BEagle]

There have been no changes to NPPL or old-style UK PPL VFR restrictions, the changes only apply to JAR-FCL or Part-FCL licence privileges.

[stevelup]

Good point, and Fleet Flyer has an NPPL. So ignore me...

[Pilot.Lyons]

Ok thanks beagle and stevelup for coming back to me

[englishal]

Over Wales you can go up to FL195 VFR.

[mary meagher]

That's quite a story about taking the Turbulent to 21,500'. The guy is very very lucky to have survived. The big problem was not the aeroplane but his ad hoc oxygen equipment! not designed for aircraft or high altitude use, it clogged up, and he nearly enjoyed the unplanned Final Exit of euphoria - the most comfortable method of suicide you can possibly employ....

I had all the experience and equipment and backup that Deeside gliding club could provide, and still nearly screwed up on my first attempts at the altitude flights, figuring that if I turned the indicator which gave a choice of 2 or 4, to half way between I would have a flow of 3, which should last nicely for the planned flight, but actually I was getting nada, because half way between 2 and 4 just shut the flow off altogether. Fortunately only got to 12,000 that day. And also who ever is supervising your altitude flying gives you a radio call from time to time. If you stop making sense in your reply, the chief says to come down now, and that's an order!

I was very happy to have achieved the diamond height after trying for it five times, because never felt entirely happy breathing oxygen from a mask clamped over my face. Reminded me of childbirth....breath deeply, and you pass out....
So these days, twelve thousand max, thank you very much.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Lol mary.... Love the story love the experience of others.... More stories should be put on here to help others learn from mistakes that we make.... As they may not be so lucky

[Pilot.Lyons]

Actually i have bow opened a new thread on it so look forward to reading some