NPPL (SSEA) vs LAPL(A)

[Zaphod the 0th]

I've struggled to find any definitive answers on this, so if someone could help that'd be great.

What are the main differences in what you can do with the LAPL aircraft licence versus the NPPL SSEA? It is my understanding with the NPPL you can't fly a plane with more than 4 seats (irrespective of the number of POB) that weighs more than 2 tonnes and goes faster than 140kts. Do these same limits still apply for the LAPL, or can you fly anything as long as it's only got one piston engine?

Can you still fly variable pitch or retractable gear aircraft on a LAPL, with the appropriate differences training?

Does the LAPL allow you to add any additional ratings to it, such as IR(R) (or whatever's replaced the IMC) or night ratings?


Thanks for the help :)

[AberdeenAngus]

I'm a newbie and was totally baffled by the whole PPL, NPPL, LAPL business....

I found this article which helped
EASA Pilot Licenses (http://www.getintoflying.co.uk/easa-pilots-licenses-part-3)

[Whopity]

It is my understanding with the NPPL you can't fly a plane with more than 4 seats (irrespective of the number of POB)Incorrect, you are restricted by the POB (Max 4 inc Pilot) and weight, not the number of seats.

The medical requirements differ slightly; the NPPL is National and therefore will not be valid to fly EASA aeroplanes beyond 7th April 2015 whilst the LAPL is European and unless you only fly Annex II aeroplanes will become the more predominant licence, valid throughout Europe.

FCL.105 LAPL — Privileges and conditions
(a) General. The privileges of the holder of an LAPL are to act without remuneration as PIC in non-commercial operations on the appropriate aircraft category.
(b) Conditions. Applicants for the LAPL shall have fulfilled the requirements for the relevant aircraft category and, when applicable, for the class or type of aircraft used in the skill test.

FCL.105.A LAPL(A) — Privileges and conditions
(a) The privileges of the holder of an LAPL for aeroplanes are to act as PIC on single-engine piston aeroplanes-land or TMG with a maximum certificated take-off mass of 2 000 kg or less, carrying a maximum of 3 passengers, such that there are never more than 4 persons on board of the aircraft.
(b) Holders of an LAPL(A) shall only carry passengers after they have completed, after the issuance of the licence, 10 hours of flight time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG.

National Private Pilot’s Licence (Aeroplanes)
Minimum age – 17 years
Privileges and conditions:
(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) to (8) the holder of the licence is entitled to fly as pilot in command of any SSEA, microlight aeroplane or SLMG for which a class rating is included in the licence.
The NPPL requires separate Class ratings the LAPL is all inclusive.
You are unlikely to find anywhere to train for a LAPL in the UK over the next couple of years due to approval costs.

[Prop swinger]

LAPL(A) - no instructor rating & no IR, but you can add a night rating. Differences training (as with PPL) required for VP props, retractables, turbo/super charged engines, cabin pressurisation & oxygen systems, EFIS panel & single lever power control.

LAPL(A) (& PPL) is restricted to the class of aircraft that you take your test in; further training is needed to extend the privileges from SEP only to TMG (& vice versa.)

[Zaphod the 0th]

Thanks for the replies. I probably should have mentioned in my first post that I already have an NPPL(SSEA) with GP medical declaration. As I'm intending to continue to fly EASA aircraft, I'll need to convert to LAPL within the next two years.

Incorrect, you are restricted by the POB (Max 4 inc Pilot) and weight, not the number of seats.

Do you have a source for that? I remember reading somewhere when I was training that I would be limited to 4-seaters (ie not a Cherokee six/PA32). So with the LAPL you could fly something like a PA32 on it (MTOW around 1.5tonnes, 6-seater)

(b) Holders of an LAPL(A) shall only carry passengers after they have completed, after the issuance of the licence, 10 hours of flight time as PIC on aeroplanes or TMG.

Am I right in thinking that the time I've logged as P1 since getting my NPPL counts towards that 10 hours of flight time?

[Whopity]

ANO Schedule 7:
Privileges and conditions:
(1) Subject to paragraphs (2) to (8) the holder of the licence is entitled to fly as pilot in command of any SSEA, microlight aeroplane or SLMG for which a class rating is included in the licence.
SSEA class rating
(1) Subject to paragraph (2) and to the conditions of the licence in which it is included, a SSEA class rating entitles the holder to act as pilot in command of any SSEA with a maximum take off weight authorised of not more than 2000kg excluding any such aeroplane which is a SLMG or a microlight aeroplane.

Carriage of persons
(8) The holder may not fly as pilot in command of any such aeroplane:
(a) if the total number of persons carried (including the pilot) exceeds four Seats are not mentioned so they are not a factor, so no problem with a Cherokee 6 if its under 2000 Kgs

Re the 10 hours I would hope you could include previous experience but that's not how its worded in the law!

[Zaphod the 0th]

ANO Schedule 7:
Seats are not mentioned so they are not a factor, so no problem with a Cherokee 6 if its under 2000 Kgs

Re the 10 hours I would hope you could include previous experience but that's not how its worded in the law!

Thanks for the reply Whopity. Can't remember where I saw the 4-seater regulation, as it was a few years ago.

So am I correct in thinking the only real differences between the NPPL and LAPL are the name on the licence, ability to get a night rating on LAPL, and the LAPL being a European-wide licence? And the (slightly) more stringent medical.

[BillieBob]

And the fact that after April 2015 the NPPL will be valid only on Annex II aircraft, which is a pretty big difference!

[Zaphod the 0th]

I finally managed to find a current (I think...) version of Part-FCL. Could someone clarify the following extract?

FCL.135.A LAPL(A) — Extension of privileges to another class or variant of aeroplane
(a) The privileges of an LAPL(A) shall be limited to the class and variant of aeroplanes or TMG in which the skill test was taken. This limitation may be removed when the pilot has completed in another class the requirements below:
(1) 3 hours of flight instruction, including: (i) 10 dual take-offs and landings; and
(ii) 10 supervised solo take-offs and landings.

What is meant by "class and variant" of aeroplane? Does that mean that if I wanted to convert from a Cessna 152 to a PA28 (for example) I'd need to do 3 hours instruction and 20 takeoffs and landings? What about C152 to C172? Or would that only apply for differences training, such as fixed to wobbly prop?

[Whopity]

‘Class of aeroplane’ means a categorisation of single-pilot aeroplanes not requiring a type rating.

In order to extend his/her privileges to another variant of aircraft within one class or type rating, the pilot shall undertake differences or familiarisation training.

C152, PA28 C172 are all in the same SEP Class.

This document (http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/experts/docs/oeb-general/Explanatory_Notes_EASA_List_of_Class_or_Type_Ratings-08042012.pdf) may be of use

[Zaphod the 0th]

C152, PA28 C172 are all in the same SEP Class.

This document (http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/experts/docs/oeb-general/Explanatory_Notes_EASA_List_of_Class_or_Type_Ratings-08042012.pdf) may be of use

Thanks for the link, that explained it well. Given I don't know of any seaports in the UK (and I live about as far from anything resembling the sea that you can get in England), and the LAPL is single-engine only, the only possible change of class would be onto TMG?

[Blue Bandit]

Hello all.

Can anybody explain which aircraft come under Annex II which can be flown on the NPPL post 2015.

Thanks

[Prop swinger]

Have a look at this page (http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification/product-certification.php) from EASA; if it's not on one of those lists, it's an Annex II aircraft. The list mentioned in the bottom section can still be found here (http://www.easa.eu.int/certification/faq/docs/annex_II_01_Jan_2010.pdf).

Basically, Annex II means:
· microlight aeroplanes
· light gyroplanes
· amateur built aircraft
· ex-military aircraft
· foot-launched aircraft
· vintage aircraft that meet specific criteria for date of design and manufacture
· aircraft built or modified for scientific or novel purposes.

[Jim59]

If you do a search on GINFO either for a specific aeroplane or a type and select one then the field EASA Category will tell you. If it says Non EASA it is AnnexII.

[flyingscotsman99]

I have a JAR PPL with IR and class 2 medical, but I had a pacemaker fitted 6 weeks ago.
Certainly I hope to get that medical back, which will require 3 months plus and about £1000 of unnecessary medical checks to do.
But in the mean time I want to fly my permit (Annexe 2) aircraft. I applied for an NPPL and have put a medical declaration into my Doctor. This should get me flying my Annexe 2 aircraft very shortly.
However an eminent AME and Medical Declaration Advisor has asked me why I did not apply for a LAPL. I replied 'because I cannot hold 2 EASA licences (the JAR PPL being effectively an EASA licence) and I cannot retain the IR with a LAPL, so presumably I would lose the IR'.
He insisted I could have an IR with a LAPL. Is he right? My understanding and my reading here and elsewhere says the opposite. Can anyone clarify?

[ifitaintboeing]

He insisted I could have an IR with a LAPL. Is he right?

No. See FCL.610

ifitaint...

[AV83R]

So when is the cut off date to be able to convert NPPL to LAPL by just a paperwork exercise

[S-Works]

Why not just do a PPL(A)? ICAO licence valid worldwide.

The LAPL is a croc designed to pigeon hole private pilots into a restricted and controlled environment.

[patowalker]

Not half as restricted as the NPPL it replaces, and it only costs £41.

Welcome to the Light Aircraft Association (http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/2013/News/easalicence.html)