Mooneys in the UK

[awqward]

I am considering a turbo M20K and have been scouring the internet and various fora for information. I have joined MAPA as well....However most of the aircraft of interest to me are based in mainland Europe (Germany mostly)....Who are recognized as Mooney specialists in the UK in terms of maintenance and overhauls? EASA and/or FAA

Thanks in advance
AQ

[A and C]

The engine is just a standard turbocharged Continental and the airframe is quite simple metal item with no real problem areas.

Any maintenance company in the reputable end of the business should be able to look after the aircraft, I looked after one for a number of years and there were no problems with it apart from damage to the landing gear doors when landing on one of the UK's less well rolled grass runways.

[dirkdj]

The M20K (231) is less suitable for less-than-perfect grass fields. because the nose gear sits further back than the propeller compared to a Bonanza for example, any potholes risk a propeller strike. Don't ask me how I know. Luckily it wasn't me flying and it wasn't my aircraft. :{

[Richard Westnot]

Marshalls of Cambridge maintain an N reg Turbo Mooney. I do not think that there is a specialised service center in the UK. As A & C says, they are not unique in terms of maintenance.

[awqward]

A three-bladed propellor improves ground clearance by around 2.5"..... which might might make a significant difference to the risk of prop strike....any views?

Also I believe a number of Mooneys have the inner door gear removed for the purposes of operating on rough ground.....

AQ

[Richard Westnot]

Any STC 3 blade conversion will reduce prop strike. I may be wrong, but I thought that most prop strikes on Mooneys was because of the weak nosewheel ?

I have only heard this in the clubhouse, so this could just be bar talk.

I don't know about the removal of the inner gear doors. Probably ok if on the N reg. Easa may look at it as an unapproved mod ?

[awqward]

Thanks for the reassurance that any reputable maintenance organisation will be able to deal with the Mooney...although if there are any that currently maintain several planes I would like to know....Cambridge sounds like one...

Also I don't think it's a weak nose gear....as dirkdj points out it is the geometry that causes the problem...in other words due to the longer distance from nose wheel to prop, any compression of the nose gear and/ or drop into a depression will be magnified at the prop by a factor approaching two compared with a Beechcraft having a factor not much greater than one....if that makes sense

[Raiz]

Jim Nisbet based his M20K at Fowlmere EGMA (700m of top notch grass runway) for several years and I believe Modern Air (http://www.modernair.co.uk) maintained it. I imagine Jim would be able to to tell you plenty about this model, as he's flown his around the world (home (http://www.jimsbigadventure.co.uk/)).

G-CERT is presently for sale with Troyes Aviation (PlaneCheck Aircraft for Sale - New planes and price reductions (http://www.planecheck.com/?ent=dv&id=2113)).

Raiz

[dirkdj]

awk,

you got it right. Another item to remember on the M231: if ever you run a tank dry in the air and switch to the fuller tank (no big deal), there will be air in the fuel-line between the empty tank and the fuel selector. Filling the emtpy tank to the brim will not remove this pocket of air, you have to use the fuel drain to get rid of this air.

Failure to do this can have very dramatic results: a friend of mine found out the very hard way: with less than 5 hours on new prop and overhauled engine (after prop strike on rough grass field) he switched to the fullest tank just before entering the runway. The engine ran just long enough to get him climbing, retracting the gear and then the air in the line reached the engine. Very hard landing, gear up, on the last 10 meters of the runway, he spent six months in a hospital bed before he could learn to walk again, very slowly. There is very little structure below the fronts seats to 'give' in case of a hard landing on the belly. :{

Moral: start on one tank, taxi, then switch and remain on the other tank before power checks. We have run dry a tank on an M231 and I estimate it took about 30 seconds before we had power back after switching tanks. :{

[awqward]

Thanks Dirk, very good advice.... I usually follow the fuel tank selection sequence you recommend - ie I don't change tanks after the run-up...to avoid the exact situation that occured to your friend...but we are only human...so the importance of strict adherence to a pre-takeoff checklist cannot be overstated... I hope he is OK and flying again...

But a more general take-away from your comment is probably the importance of studying and fully understanding the fuel system (and emergency procedures) for your particular aircraft....this has been the root cause of many many accidents....including John Denver in his newly purchased Long Eze

AQ

[maxred]

Thanks for the reassurance that any reputable maintenance organisation will be able to deal with the Mooney...although if there are any that currently maintain several planes I would like to know....Cambridge sounds like one...

Well of course, that is if you can find any......reputable ones that is.

If you get a Mooney, or any other complex type, ensure it is maintained under the Manufacturers Maintenance Schedule, found in the Manufacturers Maintenance Handbook.

It will save you endless grief, thousands of pounds/euros, and should save you falling out with your chosen Maintenance co.

A lot of them have not one clue about properly maintaining some of these types.

From the tired voice of experience.

Good luck

[gyrotyro]

I have owned a Mooney M20J and wonder why you feel you need for a turbo? They are really best suited to people who need to operate from hot and high altitudes or cross mountain ranges etc. Their true potential is not realised in the UK and near Europe destinations.

The turbo engine also rarely reaches TBO and often requires a top end overhaul long before they reach full TBO.

If I were you I would concentrate on the well proven Lycoming injected versions. Just my two pence worth.

Overall they are a great aircraft, economical and quick and despite the comments above can be operated from most grass strips with the caveat to keep the wheel bays clean.

If you were based closer to the borders I would consider sharing one with you.

[awqward]

Thanks Gyrotyro, I must say I am only about 60/40 in favour of the 231 over the 201...there is the balance between maintenance costs and performance above say 12,000ft....It seems that up to around 10-12k ft there is not a lot of difference in speed and climb rate.....above 12k the difference starts to increase...In Europe it seems good long distance IFR is best done at 12-18,000 ft for routing, weather avoidance, remaining in controlled airspace etc...but you're right, is it worth the extra maintenance costs...for me I am marginally in favour of the 231 (or a turbo-normalized 201), but if a decent J model comes along...:)

btw...MAPA have lots of good articles, including this one: Ed (http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20K231%20Eval%20Files/M20K231_Eval.htm)

Thanks Raiz....Jim's trip certainly dose look epic! Being Australian, I would love to fly grom UK to Australia at some point (if I ever move back)...and the Mooney would be a good plane to do it in... (although I would probably make sure it was an N reg for the ease of getting work done outside Europe)...I wonder how Jim got on for maintenance with his 223 hrs

[chevvron]

N20UK is based at Fairoaks and I happen to know from an ad on another forum they're looking for group members. I think it's an M20K.

[Sir George Cayley]

I think it's an M20K.

N20UK, there's a clue in there somewhere;)

Flew a Mooney once. A pig on a bumpy grass runway, narrow cabin for my shoulders and short coupled.

Absolutely fan tast ic

SGC

[awqward]

Thanks Chevvron, I used to spend a lot of time in Woking a few years ago, but now Fairoaks is just a bit too far from Aberdeen.....but I would be open to joining/forming a group up here....there is already interest and I am exploring that
AQ

[A and C]

I can tell you of a number of reputable maintenance companies all of who are my competitors and I would be more than happy to recommend them, they all do a good job at a fair price.

The people who have the most trouble finding a reputable maintenance company are usually those who are trying to get something done on the cheap, it's a strange fact that the disreputable customers seem drawn to the disreputable maintenance providers.

You do however make a very good point about using the manufactures maintenance program, using the CAA LAMP just confuses the issue leading to extra expense and in the worst case items getting missed.

[maxred]

A and C. This is a thread about Mooneys, therefore another discussion on the maintenance issues in the UK is not on.

I do however disagree with your assertion.

[A and C]

I think that you have obviously had trouble getting your Mooney maintained, I agree with you about the manufacturers maintenance program vs LAMP, now we have EASA it is much more practical to use the manufactures maintenance program.

I do however disagree with your assertion that the whole UK maintenance industry is unable to supply a reasonable service, just like all industry's there are good and bad service providers be it for a Mooney or any other type, and as with any other service if you aim for the cheap end of the market you will get a cheap product.

[maxred]

Ok, I will take a small bite.

What is your definition of the cheap end of the market??

[A and C]

The cheap end of the market is the places that seem to have one bloke & a boy in a small hangar were they in theory look after a large number of very tatty aircraft.

Returning to the Subject of Mooneys if I remember correctly the only special tooling required was a set of jacking adaptors ( that we made in about half an hour on the lathe ) and a few things to check the control rigging that we fabricated. On the whole the sort of thing that any good maintenance shop could put together without too much trouble.

My guess is the hardest part of taking on Mooney maintenance is knowing who is the best parts supplier.

[maxred]

The cheap end of the market is the places that seem to have one bloke & a boy in a small hangar were they in theory look after a large number of very tatty aircraft.

Oh, and they will Part M CAA authorised then.

Yes, quite right, AandC, back to Mooneys.

[smarthawke]

Mooney need Part M which is EASA regulated, not CAA.....

[awqward]

or Part 43...