Howto: FAA glider license after FAA PPL as alien?

[Zonkor]

I'm currently in the USA on an M1 visa to complete a stand-alone FAA PPL (ASEL) in a part 141 school. I'd like to obtain an FAA glider license afterwards. As I already received some 15 hours of glider training at home, this shouldn't be a big undertaking.

However, I'm quite uncertain about the visa requirements concerning this (assumed I hold my FAA PPL ASEL by then):


1. Can I only train for and obtain the FAA glider license in a part 141 school or can I go to a part 61 operation, individual instructor, flying club?
2. Can I train under my current M1 visa or can I enter under visa waiver?
3. If a visa is required, can I transfer it (I heard about a 60-day rule to transfer it), or must I obtain a new one?
4. I understand a TSA clearance is not required. Can you confirm this?
5. Can you recommend a place or person (flying school, club, or instructor) in the US who is open in February?
6. Are there ways to do training and checkride in Europe?


Thanks a lot for your help!

[RatherBeFlying]

Glider fields in California commonly operate in the winter.

Soaring Society of America, the source for Gliding in the USA (http://www.ssa.org) can be used to find glider operations close to you.

In the US, gliders can be added as a type to a pilot's license.

[BackPacker]

For questions 1-3 you probably need to talk to the INS (or whatever it's called) as you're going to be in a bit of a fix:

a. It seems your primary purpose of going to the US (or, in your case, staying in the US) is training, an M-1 visa is required.
b. M-1 visa can only be sponsored by training organizations that are SEVIS approved
c. Only part-141 flight schools are SEVIS approved. These offer integrated ATPL training (plus PPLs on the side) but I know of none that also offer gliding training.
d. Your current M-1 visa allows you to train at the school that sponsored it. Not anywhere else (unless it's a student exchange kind of thing and part of your study).

In real life I think there's a fair bit of training of this kind taking place under the VWP.

As for 4, indeed, no further TSA approval is required. You did get TSA approval for your initial airmens license (you did, did you?), and TSA approval for further training is only required for an IR, ME or type rating for aircraft above 12500 lbs. Check out the FAQ at www.flightschoolcandidates.gov.

5. Personally I've heard great stories about gliding in Australia. If I were to fly in (our) winter, I'd go there.

6. Obviously but you end up with a different license. In the Netherlands for instance you'd end up with a formal Dutch GPL, which is ICAO compliant. In the UK the BGA doesn't do licenses at the moment, just the bronze/silver FAI badges. This will all change under EASA though, which will introduce a formal EASA GPL which is ICAO compliant, and a sub-ICAO glider license similar to the LAPL. (As for gliders, they are identical except for the medical requirements, AFAIK.)


Edited: I was trawling the travel.state.gov website and came upon this page:

Visitor Visas - Business and Pleasure (http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/types/types_1262.html)

Note the following:

Pleasure, Tourism, Medical Treatment - Visitor Visas (B-2) - As examples, if the purpose of your planned travel is recreational in nature, including tourism, vacation (holiday), amusement, visits with friends or relatives, rest, medical treatment, activities of a fraternal, social, or service nature, and participation by amateurs, who will receive no remuneration, in musical, sports and similar events or contests, then a visitor visa (B-2) would be the appropriate type of visa for your travel. If you are going to the U.S. primarily for tourism, but want to take a short course of study which is recreational (and not for credit towards a degree), and the course is less than 18 hours per week, this is permitted on a visitor visa. As an example, if you are taking a vacation to the U.S., and during this vacation you would like to take a two-day cooking class for your enjoyment, and there is no credit earned, then this would be permitted on a visitor visa. A consular officer will determine the visa category you will need based on the purpose of your travel, and your supporting documentation.

For more information regarding travel and tourism in the United States please visit DiscoverAmerica.org.

Persons planning to travel to the U.S. for a different purpose such as students, temporary workers, crewmen, journalists, etc., must apply for a different visa in the appropriate category. If you are taking a course of study which is 18 hours or more a week, you will need a student visa. When traveling to the U.S. to attend seminars or conferences for credit towards a degree, then you’ll need a student visa.

[Zonkor]

Thanks for the information so far.

Just some clarifications:

- Concerning the 18 hours per week, do I interpret the following correctly?

If I need just a couple flights with an instructor plus some solo flights to get ready for the checkride, less than 18 hours in total, or if more than 18 hours over more than one week, then I should not need a visa.

- I'd love to go to Australia for gliding, but I'd like to get an FAA glider rating since I'd already have the FAA PPL, and I'm already "established" in the US.

- The visa officer at my current flight school mentioned the possibility of transferring the visa to another school if it is less than 60 days old. However it can only be transferred to another SEVIS-accredited part 141 school I guess.

Does anybody know more about the 60-day rule?

- Are there glider schools in Europe which offer the FAA glider rating?

And absolutely did I get TSA approval for my initial training. ;-)

Best,

Mchael

[RatherBeFlying]

Really you will get better information from a local glider operator. Find one on the SSA website and get in touch with them.

I've only flown gliders in the US a couple times; so don't know all the details -- except that it's much simpler for foreign students than flying power.

[mary meagher]

Well, when I went into the GADO (General Aviation District Office) in Tampa, having renewed my US PPL by flying gliders at Seminole, the nice official had a look at all my paperwork, which by this time included a small bit of paper that proved I was a BGA gliding instructor. So he typed me up a new bit of paper for my FAA PPL that boldly announced in large type COMMERCIAL PILOT!
and in very small type on the next page of the license, (for gliders only)!
Because apparently if you teach people in the US to fly a glider, you are by definition a Commercial Pilot. Easy upgrade, what?

I find this license quite useful for getting discounts on rental cars in Florida......

[B2N2]

A visa is NOT required for a glider rating.
It will be added to your PPL and you cant damage anything significantly in a glider.

https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/TSA-2004-19147-0324.pdf

Print out the PDF and carry it with you so it can be shown upon request.

:ok:

[BackPacker]

A visa is NOT required for a glider rating.

You mean TSA approval is not required for a glider rating.

The TSA has nothing to say about visa requirements and indeed the word visa is not mentioned anywhere in that document.