FI(R) but no IMC/IR, what use is that ?

[Unusual Attitude]

I'm currently in the process of looking at doing an FI(R) course shortly and don't hold either an IR or an IMC rating.

I was just wondering whether it would actually be feasible to instruct without either of the above ratings ?

Another question I had was whether you can actually use the Instrument time done during CPL training towards gaining an IMC rating ?
This would hopefully mean that you only need to spend a few extra hours covering approaches etc before doing an IMC test ?

If not then this would seem to be a bit of a mess, you don't get any hours off the CPL course if you have an IMC and if you then want an IMC on your CPL you have to do the whole course from scratch costing another £1500 on top of everything else.
You don't get anything off the IR for having an IMC either so it would seem to be only useful if you wish to instruct.

Is there anyone who can help with the 2 questions above ?, just for your info I'm talking about the JAR system(mess).

Regards

UA

[Noggin]

You do not need either an IMC rating or an IR in order to instruct however, the lack of an IMC rating may restrict your activities.

The 10 hours of IF in the JAA CPL course exempt you from the requirement to complete an IMC course; you only have to pass the test. In practice you will need to cover the applied IF (approaches) but the cost should be minimal. This was anounced on the CAA Web Site under Policy update last year.

[BEagle]

What is your actual reason for asking about the IMC qualification? Are you seeking better employability - or is it your interest in improving your own safety standards?

Too many people seem desperately keen to get 'ticks in boxes' in an ever more frantic quest to 'build hours' rather than to become accomplished instructors. However, it is becoming increasingly evident that the key to success in being recruited by an airline is NOT by the self-improving hours building route, but by selection through sound aptitude assessment. Interestingly, I heard yesterday that a Dutch company has achieved amazing results for its airline clients by rigorous assessment - and the chief attribute is basic stick-and-rudder skill. All the huggy-fluffy 'team building' exercises, 'customer awareness' and silly b£oody questionnairres asking whether you enjoy films about otters come way down the league of importance for a succesful career in the airlines, it seems.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Not having an IMC rating for the summer isn't going to cause you problems. Sods law states that come nov/oct you might find yourself wanting to instruct VMC on top and then recovering back to your airfield, I think I'm right in saying that without the IMC this might not be possible. Instructing above cloud is very good for the student - good horizons, less GA traffic and it also gets him thinking about IMC privileges during the PPL. It increases the FI's workload a little bit but not too much.

Having said all that you might as well get it sorted.

[Unusual Attitude]

Noggin, thanks for the info above.

BEagle, in response to your question above the answer is both !

Obviously potential employability is on my mind, however as far as safety goes I'd feel far happier in the knowledge that I could get myself and a student back down should the situation ever arise.

The reason I'm asking these questions is purely from a financial point of view unfortunately. At the moment I cant afford the full IR and am realistic about the current job situation having only a few hundred hours myself.

I'm purely looking to instruct on a part time basis for the next year or two, not just to build up some extra hours but also because I actually enjoy instructing having spent 2 years flying for an Air Cadets VGS unit on the Vigilant.

The reason for only wanting to instruct part time and the current financial restriction is because all my time and money are currently spent helping my girlfriends business to get on its feet.
In a year or two however I should be in a position to undertake the IR, until then I'd like to spend my spare time putting something back into GA and introducing people to what it is we all love to do.

.....and no I don't just mean going down the pub !

Regards & thanks again for the info

UA

[mad_jock]

Give me a ring m8 in ABZ until sunday.

Will out on friday night if your up for a beer.

MJ

[muppet]

Does the CPL not confer IMC priviledges anymore?

[mad_jock]

National License does but a Jar CPL dosn't

MJ

[muppet]

mad_jock, thanks. Suspected same.

[invalid entry]

This is (possibly good) news to me. Are you saying that with a CPL (or ATPL in my case) I can exercise some IMC priviledges. Please elaborate for me.
Thanks

[Stan Evil]

Invalid Entry. A UK CPL or ATPL confers the same privileges as an IMC rating and these do not have to be revalidated. Look at Schedule 8 of the ANO http://www.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2000/20001562.htm

BUT a JAA CPL carries no such privileges.

[ILS27R]

If what youre saying is right what about the rest of Europe where the IMC doesn't exist. Do FIs stay on the ground then if the cloud base is too low- providing they don't have an IR that is?? Why then is the rest of Europe not up in arms that the UK still has the IMC- allowing instructors to fly in IMC conditions with students, without spending 10k in order to do so?? You may argue that everyone with a JAA CPL now needs an IR- otherwise its resit time, however there are some instructors out there who only want to instruct and don't need an expensive IR.

I heard on this website a few months back that you don't need an IMC if you wish to instruct in IMC conditions. The instrument part of the JAA CPL covers the IMC syllabus. This is what I thought anyway:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Stan Evil]

ILS27R - Don't believe everything you read on this web site!!!!:eek:

The ANO is quite clear. You cannot fly in IMC (or even in VMC with less than 3 Km viz) with a JAR CPL unless you also have an IR or (in the UK) an IMC Rating.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

UA - get the IMC rating would be my advise. It allows you to add extra quality to your sorties. Whether that be S&L2 on top of stratus with a perfect horizon or actual Navaid tuition in IMC (foggles really are a cop out).

It will also enable you to make far better airmanship judgements. So many times it has been far far safer to operate on top or in a big hole (not quite VMC) than to flog around 1000ft agl - 1000ft below cloud. Less turbulence, less traffic, more capacity for you to focus on the lesson.

Coming from the Vigilant world you will also find it a new challenge and fun to be able to go IMC.

Finally - 50hrs real IMC will help your IR course immeasurably.

Good luck,


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