Help with flying.

[C_B757]

Hello fellow Ppruners :D

I have been fascinated with flying since I had my first trip to an airport many years ago, and I had my first lesson from the same airport. But i was wondering if any pilots out there can help me with a decision and what would you think is the best course of action.

I have applied for college to do Aeronautical Engineering and this would be a great help and also build knowledge of flying and how these amazing machines make it into the sky, but with this it will take up all my time plus won't be enough money for regular lessons at the local flying school.

So this is what I would like help in,

Should I go to college and learn the ins and outs of aviation and space my PPL training over a longer period?

Or get a full time job which might not be aviation related and not attend college but will hopefully make money for more regular lessons to gain my PPL?

I do apologise for the long post but this has been on my mind for days and expert advise would be much appreciated. :)

Many thanks

C_B757

[piperarcher]

I think it depends on what you want to achieve in a career. If you just want a PPL to fly, but have a career as Doctor for example, then the current courses and theory are sufficient. You dont need a diploma or degree in Aeronautical Engineering.

If however (and it sounds like this is the case), you want to make a career in the Aerospace industry, and are as much interested in the theory, as the practical side of aviation, then I'd say do your course, and then learn how to fly. Maybe one of these courses offers a discount or some other scheme to make flying training easier to come by.

Your situation as written, sounds a bit chicken and egg. As I say, you need to think about your long term goal, and then think about where the flying fits in. Flying isnt cheap (though some will suggest flying microlight aircraft or gliders as an alternative), so if you go straight for a PPL, you need to make sure you have the means to comortably pay for about 60 hours of flying (people rarely pass in the minumum 45 hours).

[Pilot.Lyons]

Aeronautical Engineering is a very good move to make, i only wished i had done it when i was young enough!
Ppl you can get anytime
Good luck with whatever way you choose I would advise career first then you will have lots of money to fly with 😃

[mad_jock]

Aero engineering in someways is quite limiting and isn't really much use for being a pilot. Its a whole heap of work for little benefit. The theory you need for being a pilot is extemely low level and about the level of your O grade physics.

Unless you really really want to do that otherwise a general mech/electrical/civil/chemical degree will set you up for earning the money to become a pilot later.

Actually the degrees which seem to give you a head start as a pilot are

Pharmacy and The degree you need to be a optician. Both these jobs allow you to locum while working as a pilot and also allow relatively high rates of pay quickly after qualifying.

BTW I have a Mech Eng and it to helped a wee bit with the technical subjects mainly because it was the third time in some cases I had done hydralics and 3 phase, DC electrics etc but many people who have not touched those subjects before have no problems with them.

[C_B757]

Thanks all for taking the time to reply,

As flying is something i like to do as a long term career and in response to mad_jock could you explain further as to why the degrees you suggested would be more beneficial to being a pilot ?

Least with college i won't be at home and use my time learning something that would help me hugely and what looks enjoyable to learn :D

C_B757

[Jude098]

Not applied to Sheffield Hallam by any chance? They have a pod simulator for their engineering students.

[mad_jock]

You need to be able to earn in the region of 60-100k to be come a pilot without have to get shafted by the banks and not having to put your parents house on the line if it doesn't work out.

Now these jobs suggested get you into jobs which are pretty well payed from the word go. Engineering you tend to start off in the 25k range then it takes 5-10 years to get up to something which allows you to buy a house and save at the same time.

Now once you are training you will have to give up full time employement.

Both those jobs allow you to weekend work any days off for quite tidy sums while training and allow you to go back while looking for a job after training.

And Aero eng does not give you a huge advantage very little of what you will learn is relavent to pilot training. It is a very heavy maths degree and quite specialised. And if you really don't have a hunger to learn the subject its going to be very heavy going for you.

[C_B757]

@jude098 no this is for a college in Glasgow.

@mad_jock well i would like to improve my physics and maths skills so during my flight training it would be easier :)

Aww i see basically i should work work in a well paid job for a few years then after i saved enough money just leave and do my flight training :D

I get you now!!

Thanks

C_B757

[mad_jock]

Glasgow Uni do an aero engineering degree.

If you are meaning go to one of the polys to do one of the aero so called degrees which isn't reconised by the Royal Society of Aeronautical Engineers to be honest its not worth the paper its written on. Highly expensive course for very little qualification at the end of it.

And yes you have got what I am saying save then train. And you don't really need to go for a degree. I have flown with many plumbers, sparkies, and builders all good pilots and nothing different to the degree holder pilots. In fact I really wouldn't who has a degree and who doesn't with the pilots I fly with.

Maths and physics are required but not to degree level. Highers in both are more than whats required.

[abgd]

I can certainly see where MJ's coming from, but I'm uncomfortable with the idea that you might start a vocational degree in the life sciences as the means to a completely different end.

I'm sure there are a lot of unhappy doctors, pharmacists and opticians who have become professional pilots, but I suspect that these were people who started the courses with the best of intentions then found that they didn't like the job at the end of it. That's quite a different thing from starting your studies with the intention of leaving as soon as possible, and I think that this would risk turning out badly. My feeling is that you should go to university either to study something vocational, with a vocation in mind, or to study something that interests you for its own sake.

What is your likely level of debt coming out of university? In Scotland you might be better off, but in England/Wales with tuition fees at £9000 and living costs at least £5000 the gap between the cheapest university courses and the cost of becoming a flying instructor is not nearly as great as it used to be, especially when you factor in that it takes less time to get a frozen ATPL than a degree and you can spend the extra year and a half to two years earning.

The problem is more likely to be getting a loan and the risk of ending up with no viable job prospects and no degree either if things don't work out. Not every pilot finds work.

In my view, one of the major reasons to go to University is to broaden your horizons and hang about with interesting people from different backgrounds from your own. I don't know whether going straight into piloting does achieves this to the same extent. However, for the same reason I would look a little further away from home in terms of university courses if this is what you choose.

[mad_jock]

Why 50% of engineers go nowhere near engineering after graduation. And the unit cost of a engineering degree is higher than the ones quoted. The cost for scottish students is capped at something like 1800.

They go and steal accountants jobs and the like and actually have a far better pass rate at the chartered accountancy exams than the folk that have been studying for it for a degree.

And the only thing your likely to meet in Paisley is the dangerous end of a knife.

[Dak Man]

Aerospace Engineers right out of college can get about 60 Euros / hr, 50 hrs / week and pay about 15% tax as sub-contractors in Europe (RR, MTU, Airbus as well as the supply chain Goodrich, GE Systems, etc as well as the specialist design services like ASSystem. Morson and EKES etc. I did it for 15years after I gave up on the flying lark. It could easily fund your wider aspirations regarding flying jobs. In fact I know a few who have done exactly that College - contracting - Frozen ATPL - A320. If things go t**ts up they just come back into contracting.

[mad_jock]

To work in Europe you need at least a MEng.

A BSc none acredited Aerospace degree really doesn't cut the mustard. In the UK aerospace is towards the bottom of the Engineering league on pay scales.

Oil and gas, Chemical, Nukes, Electrical, Civil all earn more.

I think the average graduate pay for an Engineer is 23k.

Optician is on 35-40k straight away.

And Pharmacy is similar.

Both you can do Locum work as well pretty easily.

[Dak Man]

Nope MJ, I don't even have a degree and I've worked at all the aforemantioned as a sub-contractor in a professional engineering capacity, I now manage a technical Department for a North American Blue Chip.

[mad_jock]

I really can't see a 21 year old engineering graduate with zero experience walking into a contracting job paying 50-60 euro an hour.

[Dak Man]

It happens. I personally know 3 or 4 in my immediate network.

I also know "engineers" with bugger all formal engineering quals earning the same rates.

If you know wherte to look there are jobs a plenty in Europe.

If anyone wants help / contacts etc then just PM me, I was well established and I've "put" many engineers into European jobs via a personal recommendation directly to the blue chips or via agencies alike.