Beach Landings

[oli,_the_original]

Afternoon all,

So after a severely mishandled search of the site and only finding Herc stories, what are the legalities and implications of landing on a beach in the UK, as a PPL (A)?

Next thing is aircraft selection... You may have seen the other thread that I've got going about cessna fiddling and fettling... I suspect a tailwheel aircraft will be an advantage for a light single? Potentially with flotation tyres on it?

Cheers,

Oli

[Pilot DAR]

Oli, this, and low flying, are two of the many questions in life to which the answer is: I you have to ask, the answer is no. Though both are possible under some circumstances, they are fraught with dangers, and require extra skill and judgement. Plan to not do either without specific approval, or enabling regulation, and you should be fine....

[oli,_the_original]

That is a real shame that my gut instinct has just been backed up.

I obviously wouldn't start doing it without seeking to build my knowledge and experience on it first (Hence why this thread*), and would be keen to know if there are any rules and regs that people could point me towards?

Oli

*I do realise that I just suggested that PPRuNe is a potential tool for initial research...:E

[mad_jock]

Have a look in the AIP at the airfield Barra which has commercial flights landing on the beach.

There are other beaches which you can use in the UK. There isn't per say any regulations on the flying side of things but there is about permission to use etc you can't just use any bit of beach you feel like without the owners permission.

[Mariner9]

There's a fly-in every year to various beaches in the Morecombe Bay/Fylde area. Google "Lancashire landings" - there's also been a couple of threads on here.

I went the year before last to Knott End beach in a nosewheel (and retractable at that!) Pioneer 300 without any problems - great experience!

Edited to add link to beach flyin website: Lancashire landing (http://lancashirelanding.weebly.com/index.html)

[RatherBeFlying]

My first "beach" was a bit far from water, but it was definitely sand.

For those next to the sea, know your tides as it's a tad disappointing after a well executed landing and happy excursion to come back to see the a/c in or under water:mad:

[oli,_the_original]

Hi guys, awesome thank you for the responses!

Did you guys all just suck it and see or try it with someone who'd done it before the first time you landed on sand?

[mad_jock]

Just went and had a shot in Barra.

[Maoraigh1]

While I've landed on Barra and Sollas, I've done far more walking on beaches. The sand condition changes from tide to tide, and even a beach which is usually firm is sometimes soft. Have the beach checked immediately before you land - unless you have tundra tyres.

[piperboy84]

There are other beaches which you can use in the UK. There isn't per say any regulations on the flying side of things but there is about permission to use etc you can't just use any bit of beach you feel like without the owners permission.

I thought the Queen owned all the beaches in the UK except when there is an ancient salmon lease held by a private individual like at Lunan Bay

[Richard Westnot]

She does, but Philip said that it was ok :)

[oli,_the_original]

I thought she owned the bit between the high and low water marks?

[Richard Westnot]

No. That bit is a myth :)

Many others are also around.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=myths%20about%20the%20queen%20elizabeth%20ii&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.republic.org.nz%2Fblog%2Fmyth-queen-elizabeth&ei=FCDqULndG6aI0AWFjYDwAg&usg=AFQjCNGarPv3YV8S11cyEecp7Sf7z09yng

[Pilot DAR]

The nature of the sand is, of course, vital for a successful roll out, and subsequent takeoff. If you do not have authoritative report on the sand conditions, you're on your own for figuring it out, and the wrong answer is really wrong.

I have landed the 150 on beaches a number of times, and it has always worked fine, but as a result of several "test runs" before each landing. The technique is similar to that to be used prior to a ski landing in unknown snow.

While taxiing on the beach following one landing, I purposefully taxied into what I suspected was "soft" sand. It sure was, and I was stuck in 3 feet of movement. It was no problem swinging the plane back around to get back out, but landing in that would have been a serious mistake.

Add to the risk, on a beach, you're probably a long way from help if you do get it wrong. Airplane operators and insurers plan on the idea that generally airplanes operate at airports, to which there is easy access, and services. Floatplanes are an example of aircraft, which like helicopters, are much more likely to operate from inaccessible locations. When something goes wrong, it's a big deal. Many times I've flown into a lake to assist the recovery of a damaged aircraft, because there was not road access. If you have to fly the whole plane out by helicopter, that gets really expensive. A friend of mine ran out of gas, and landed his aircraft (with no hull insurance) in a swamp. $20,000 to get it back, plus the cost of the damage.

[scotbill]

Bear in mind that sea water is brine which is extremely unfriendly to metal bits. A thorough wash would be necessary afterwards.

[mad_jock]

The crown does own 55% the foreshore between high and low water marks and also the sea bottom inside UK waters unless a Monach in the past has given them to a person usually for sticking a sword in a french man.

It doesn't claim any in Orkney and Shetland.

The rest is owed mostly by The Duchie of Cornwall and Lancaster which are both crown trusts so in reality they are still owned by the Crown but trusted for tax purposes.

There isn't really a problem with this in the UK and allows public access to our coast and stops private land owners barring access. The New Zealand thing is a completely different ball game which looks like a proper political screw up and nothing to do with the crown estate.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I've done it a few times, but always when I knew the sand was good. For instance, at Knott End (Lancashire) when several other aeroplanes are already on the beach. Or at the Southport Air Show when the organisers had actually marked out runways in the sand!