Mil Aircrew - can it go lower in 2013?

[salad-dodger]

A quick look through the threads on the front page of Mil Aircrew shows that around 8 out of 27 are what could be regarded as relevant to today's military aviation. Less than one third! Even the threads that are relevant are riddled with daft, uninformed comment from spotters, wannabees and so many who had their days in the fifties and sixties. Please note, much of that is not rumour, as per the site name, but just drivel.

How many times recently have we seen people asking for info on various current situations only to to be told what it was like in the RAF of the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc? I'll answer my own question, it's almost every time, and always by the same people. Look at the people who monopolise threads now with some of their tedious reminiscences.

I can understand a few nostalgia and history threads, many of them are of real interest and real benefit to all of us today, but not 70% of the top threads.

For info. I myself did over 20 years in the RAF and am still involved in several military aviation projects, including significant procurements. Hopefully that qualifies me as one of the "the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground"

I wonder how many who post on here now are currently involved in current military aviation? I'm not saying that others should not give us the benefit of their vast experiences, where would we be without being able to learn from the experience of people like Beagle, Courtney, Tuc, herkman etc?

I don't suppose this thread will last long.

Happy New Year

S-D

[Union Jack]

I don't suppose this thread will last long.

Looks like it might have to last 90 years!:)

Jack

[salad-dodger]

Thanks UJ

S-D

[Tiger_mate]

Give him a break; he is only 12.

[salad-dodger]

Courtney's posts are always very informative and I like his webpage! Apologies if i've missed those with a little more 'seniority':E

S-D

[NutLoose]

It must be me

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tsag-eNqML3o2W2-w0GJcRDgeDFaPK4pdO_MZR20WIlGI0SoUw

http://blog.tmcnet.com/mt-static/plugins/TinyMCE/lib/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/img/crying-animated.gif

[muttywhitedog]

Its got a chance of hanging around until spring, when the bloody Weber thread will be dragged back from page 120+....

[Willard Whyte]

A quick look through the threads on the front page of Mil Aircrew shows that around 8 out of 27 are what could be regarded as relevant to today's military aviation. Less than one third! Even the threads that are relevant are riddled with daft, uninformed comment from spotters, wannabees and so many who had their days in the fifties and sixties. Please note, much of that is not rumour, as per the site name, but just drivel.

How many times recently have we seen people asking for info on various current situations only to to be told what it was like in the RAF of the 50s/60s/70s/80s etc? I'll answer my own question, it's almost every time, and always by the same people. Look at the people who monopolise threads now with some of their tedious reminiscences.

I can understand a few nostalgia and history threads, many of them are of real interest and real benefit to all of us today, but not 70% of the top threads.

For info. I myself did over 20 years in the RAF and am still involved in several military aviation projects, including significant procurements. Hopefully that qualifies me as one of the "the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground"

I wonder how many who post on here now are currently involved in current military aviation? I'm not saying that others should not give us the benefit of their vast experiences, where would we be without being able to learn from the experience of people like Beagle, Courtney, Tuc, herkman etc?

I don't suppose this thread will last long.

Happy New Year

S-D

Just the sort of unimaginative, blinkered line-toeing I was glad to leave behind.

[AOJM]

Might have something to do with the actual number of Mil aircrew getting lower...

[orca]

I'm confused. Are we supposed to trumpet our experience? Somehow prove our currency? Claim our right to post? Or just out ourselves as walts?

For the record, I am not only an expert at pretty much everything, but I'm still currently flying warplanes. I possess a dizzying intellect and a smile that will swing a debrief at thirty paces.

I look forward to gracing those threads I consider worthy in 2013. Does that help at all?

[Two's in]

Funny how we all know how the red button on the TV remote directly controls the intellectual content of our viewing, but we all seemed determined to read every single word of the interwebs as if it was Moses himself coming down from the mountain!

With the exception of the Mods, who invest time in ensuring the content remains within the stated guidelines, all of us are guests here and thankfully there is an elegantly simple method of establishing "relevance". If people read and enjoy what you write, it is probably relevant - if you become a serial thread killer with your myopic dross, then hopefully your day job is fulfilling enough to get you through life without the adoration from others.

This thread itself keeps reappearing a bit like publishing the perils of not saluting, loss of ID cards and long hair on Routine Orders - making it a prevalent offence doesn't stop it, it just demonstrates you have no real control over those things. The answer, by the way, remains the same. If you have a whizz bang idea about reaching like minded individuals with your views on current operational topics then start a web-site; any 12-year old can do it in about 10 minutes these days.

The other approach of course is to become a Mod so you can nip this "irrelevance" in the bud before it takes on a life of its own. Read anything by Alexander Solzhenitsyn if you want to get a feel for how to handle those who won't toe the line.

[Wholigan]

:D:D :D:D :D:D :D

[4Greens]

If we learned more from history then some of the disasters such as Afghanistan and Iraq might have been avoided or at least better handled. Some of the history on PPRUNE and inputs from the past are well worth reading.

[newt]

Had a bad time at the New Years Party then SD?

This is Pprune! Its a rumour network and not Flight Magazine or Aviation Space Leak!

The serious topics you're looking for are mostly classified and should not be discussed on a forum like this.

Best you have a nice glass of something and sit back and relax. My guess is that Pprune is not going to change in 2013 and why should it?:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Background Noise]

Pprune was never like this in my day....

[MSOCS]

S-D,

A certain individual at the beginning of the last century had ideals about only certain 'types' being acceptable to him; he ended up ruining most of Europe

In all seriousness though, I struggle to find a valid point in what you posted. As many have said, your issue seems to be with the content and free speech of a public forum on Mil Avn whose content is moderated by its owners. In which case your grief is with the Mods and I suggest you step down off the soap box and PM them about it.

Not sure what YOUR credentials are but what you write matters. If its valid it will stand on its own, whether you've 3000 hrs or 3!

Whatever the case, spare us the disgusting elitism.

[CoffmanStarter]

PPRuNe is generally a Broad and Tolerant Church and long may that continue ... personally I'm more than happy to be WIWOL'd to death (also add WIWOP, WIWOH, WIWOB, WIWOJ etc.) ... whilst engaging in some gentle leg-pulling and general banter along the way. Some of us didn't get as far as we would have liked but still enjoy the Military Aviation Esprit de corps :ok:

[Torque Tonight]

This sort of post comes u fairly frequently. Typically it's from some cocky young flying officer who has just reached a squadron, decided that he is what the whole air force is all about, and that only current people should be allowed to post and then only about the current stuff that he is involved in. To write off the experience of those who have gone before is a very ignorant practice.

My military flying career my never have been particularly illustrious but I did fly on ops in not too distant history and from time to time do have a valid opinion or nugget of information. I have biscuits in the bottom of my nav bag with more flying hours than some of the people who insist only they should be allowed to post here.

Also, where would all the valuable mil to civvy crossover career and licensing advice go if ex-RAF were not welcome here? The simplest thing if you don't approve of a thread is not to read it and not to post on it: allow it to fall off the page and die. Natural selection if you like, not rocket science.

[Pontius Navigator]

TT, probably right. As a brand new and keen fg off I paid little attention to the BOFs in the crew room, many of whom were very senior fg offs or equally aged flt lt. I kept in mind one caution which was not to be rude to very senior flt lts, ie those in their late 20s :)

I much regret never drawing as much from these BOF as I should and have had to content myself with reading their obits.

I still recall one lesson from a very crusty and pedantic sqn ldr of some 20years seniority. "Don't believe everything you read in the Flying Order Book. Check the sqn copy against the station master copy and if in doubt check again."

That advice explained both his seniority and pedantry.

[LateArmLive]

Just the sort of unimaginative, blinkered line-toeing I was glad to leave behind.
Yet you just can't help yourself from coming back...:ok:

I see where you're coming from Salad Dodger, but this forum will never change. I assume you are currently serving military aircrew - do you really think a closed forum where we have to login with our service numbers (or other credentials) would really work? There is something on the DLP that was started along those lines, and I think both of the members of that forum have a great time talking to each other.

I think we just have to accept mil aircrew for what it is:

Old gits who hang around talking about the good old days, and how glad they are they left when they did. (75%)
Spotters and wannabes posting photos or asking for advice. (10%)
Current mil aircrew (and backroom boys/girls) who rarely post because they actually have crewrooms to banter in. (10%)
People who post links to military stories they've found on the internet whilst sitting in their pi$$-soaked chairs. (5%)
WEBF. (100% fantasy)

(Apologies for those I have missed!)

Maybe the forum name needs to change?

Military Aircrew: A forum for the ex-professionals who may at one time have been near the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom they'd have nobody to banter. Perverts of the World, all equally welcome here.

[Torque Tonight]

Of course it's pretty easy to sort the wheat from the chaff in here (and those currently serving are not immune from talking absolute drivel). Spotters and walts tend to give themselves away within about the first sentence.

If you think the Mil aircrew forum is bad, try an accident topic in R&N, the airline equivalent: 1% wheat, 99% chaff!

[Pontius Navigator]

S-D,. . .
Not sure what YOUR credentials are but what you write matters. If its valid it will stand on its own, whether you've 3000 hrs or 3!

Whatever the case, spare us the disgusting elitism.

Firstly S-D is an engineer. Now he tells us he is not a BOF or a GOG so, looking at his posting history, this suggests that he is a B&TG.

he also said he is I myself did over 20 years in the RAF and am still involved in several military aviation projects, including significant procurements. Hopefully that qualifies me as one of the "the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground" but is clearly not in the RAF now so . . .








bitter and twisted git

[Tashengurt]

Threads like this always remind me of using the aircrew crew room as a SAC squipper. The majority of aircrew recognised that as we spent all our time working with them it made sense for us to have access to make a brew. Every now and then though, someone would get upset by seeing 'other ranks' using the kettle and would make a fuss until we left. It didn't matter then and doesn't now.


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

S-D,
do you really want to ban John Farley?

For the rest of us ex-'s below that, the posts should stand on merit.
For the posts that don't, there are the mods or the ignore facility.

If you are still committed, try asking the mods for a current mil only forum. Same criteria as the company forums. See how many threads & posts you get.


.

[Pontius Navigator]

Fox3, really, he said:
I'm not saying that others should not give us the benefit of their vast experiences, where would we be without being able to learn from the experience of people like Beagle, Courtney, Tuc, herkman etc?

Why BEagle even, so of course he would not have wanted to ban JF.

[Stitchbitch]

Tashengurt, still happens today on 'Biphoon' squadrons, despite the fact the squips work in the same corridor.. :E

[Pontius Navigator]

SB, short sighted because there were some trades that could do things for you and squippers was one of them. They could ensure your flying suit was in your locker serviced and ready or not :}. provide big fluffy towels on the bomber bases, repair lilos, do the odd heavy stitching etc.

Went into FC at ISK to have a small rent fixed in my CW Jacket. Looks a bit rotten to me said the sgt - RIP - nice new jacket :)

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

PN, other than a general appeal for relevance (with which I would concur), S_D is saying he wants experienced input yet also implying in the preceding sentence that this can only come from those still current.

Let's not speculate - S-D, what's your proposed solution?

[Al-bert]

Oh they could MUCH more than that, especially if you were a yachty type ;).

Wouldn't happen these days of course but back in my day.................zzzz:E

[Shack37]

Originally posted by LateArmLive:

I see where you're coming from Salad Dodger, but this forum will never change. I assume you are currently serving military aircrew

From the Salad Dodger

For info. I myself did over 20 years in the RAF and am still involved in several military aviation projects, including significant procurements. Hopefully that qualifies me as one of the "the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing
would leave the ground"


Tech Poster from my days:
"Never assume, CHECK"

Must run, nappy to change:confused:

[muttywhitedog]

Tashengurt, still happens today on 'Biphoon' squadrons, despite the fact the squips work in the same corridor.. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/evil.gif

I'm sure they'd grumble even more if they visited squipville for a helmet fit to find the squippers had popped over to the Eng Crewroom for a Tea Break!

[BEagle]

Its got a chance of hanging around until spring, when the bloody Weber thread will be dragged back from page 120+....

Oh, I don't know, oldwhitecrumbly. If this mild weather continues, your wish could be granted somewhat earlier.....

And just for you:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/barbi.jpg

;)

[sled dog]

Must have been interesting trying to skewer the beast. 5lb sledge hammer ?

[CoffmanStarter]

Sled Dog ...

BEagle might be going for a Webley this year rather than a Weber :ok:

http://blog.servicemagic.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/gun-bbq.jpeg

[clicker]

"If we learned more from history then some of the disasters such as Afghanistan and Iraq might have been avoided or at least better handled. Some of the history on PPRuNe and inputs from the past are well worth reading. "

I recall many years ago seeing a statement on a pub wall in London that read "Why are the barstewards that declare war too fecking old to fight in it"

The same barstewards don't learn the history lessons either IMHO. They won't care because their heads are not in the firing line.

[salad-dodger]

Seemed worth bringing this back again.

Thanks for the comments folks, although I would recommend that many of you read and comprehend before responding. My views haven't changed. In fact they've been reinforced by the number of inane threads started recently. The forum is very rapidly becoming a military version of jetblast, and that's a real shame. I have no doubt I will be flamed again by the usual city fathers and coffin dodgers.

All those that add real insight, experience and knowledge to this forum, this is not aimed at you. You don't have to be serving to do that, but you do have to know when telling tall story number 78 for the umpteenth time bores the pants off most people. (PN take note)


S-D

[Steve the Pirate]

Seemed worth bringing this back again.

Not a case of "ignored for 2 months so brought back to the top again" is it? :E Your thread was dead - let it rest in peace.

STP

PS Apologies for bringing this back to the top

[CoffmanStarter]

Good morning Salad Dodger ...

I clearly seem to have up set you. You are perfectly entitled to your opinion but it's just a shame you feel the need to respond in the way you have on the Rugby Thread :(

I enjoy the hardcore mil aviation topics on this forum that can be shared in public ... but equally there are many that enjoy the lighter side of life. To mock my mention of the sterling efforts for Red Nose Day (Quote " Crap Thread") where a total of £75m has been raised ... want's a bit of understanding.

Anyway ... No hard feelings this end ...

Best regards ...

Coff.

[Arm out the window]

Seemed worth bringing this back again.

Probably wouldn't have needed to bump it up to the top if it'd been worth putting up in the first place, wouldn't you say?

[jayteeto]

I left 10 yrs ago and now find I look less and less at the Mil Forum. I tend to scan it for interest every now and then (today). I still fly helicopters for a living and try to keep up to date with current affairs. If I feel that I have a valid input, I input it! If not, I keep my gob shut.
One thing that history shows is that despite new wonder kit and superior (!!!) young aircrew, you STILL keep making the same old mistakes as us over and over again. It is often frustrating for us BOFs to see this happening.
After completing 25 years in the RAF, I still see myself as part of the family, albeit a bit like grandad in his wheelchair. This website is not secret government property, or so serious you should be vetted before joining. IT IS FOR ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!!!

Feel free to go elsewhere, otherwise live with it. Anyway, When I was in Belizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[dragartist]

Any of you clever geeks work out how to put a voting button against posts to save wordy responses which generate angst.

could be like/dislike or for/against or agree/disagree.

Signing out for a bit- got to go and get some nice chrome plated 20" wheels with off-road tyres for the Barby!