Purchase of a club-owned PA28 from Italy

[hegemon88]

Hi everyone,

I am intending to close the deal on a PA-28 currently situated in Italy and bring it to the UK. I have been warned by my CAMO and advised to check the status of the aircraft as they have come across a few cases of the Italian seller (aeroclub) not disclosing or even unaware of an unpaid loan collateralised on the aircraft. In the UK I would go to the CAA to check the mortgage register, but I thought I'd ask here if anyone has already been in a similar situation and could save me a few hours of research? Any advice gratefully received!


H88

[Sir George Cayley]

There are many PA 28 variants for sale in the UK. What is your interest in buying abroad?

Easy life/Hard life?

SGC

[A and C]

First you need to have your CAMO check the technical paperwork and if that is OK then make sure that the contract ensures that the seller is responsible for any outstanding debts or encumbrances on the aircraft.

I should also ask the CAMO about the proposed AD's if it is an early PA28.

[jxk]

Is it on the Italian register? If so, I would be very wary about putting it on a different country's registry. The logbooks, work-pack, and all records will need to be translated if in Italian. Are there no local aircraft for sale that would fit your requirements?

[cockney steve]

then make sure that the contract ensures that the seller is responsible for any outstanding debts or encumbrances on the aircraft.

About as much use as a chocolate fireguard!....you really think a crooked vendor in another country is going to put their hand up?

Love your optimism, though!:p

Whatever you do, don't mention the Mafia.:}

[A and C]

You may well have a very good point in civil law but the contract written in those terms may well keep you out of the criminal courts if the deal is the cover for some sort of fraud.

[Julian]

In addition to the comments above, have you been and viewed the aircraft and/or got an independant engineer to give it the once over. If its an ex-club aircraft then it wont have been the best treated aircraft in the world as students are not always the most careful indivuals in the world despite their best efforts! Think about your own first attempts at landings, mine had more bounces than Skippy!

If you haven't I would get it done before you complete the purchase.

J.

[hegemon88]

Hi again!

Many thanks for all the replies. I'm closing the deal after the CAMO has OK'ed the aircraft and I'm (relatively) happy with its shape. Flying club <> flying school, the aircraft hasn't been used for basic training. I'm specifically interested in a 1980ish Archer and 5 or 6 I have seen here in the UK were significantly pricier than those in the Eurozone - that's the main reason to go overseas.

CAMO just said that the first annual in the UK will drain my pockets :ugh:

Thanks again everyone,


H88

[Justiciar]

There is almost certainly a register of aircraft mortgages in Italy, as there is in the UK. You would be very, very well advised to check this before you part with any money as a mortgagee will have the right to possession of the aircraft for any unpaid liabilities of the club. In Italy successor businesses assume the liabilities of any former business they take over so be very careful with the history not just of the aircraft but also the club who owns it and any former owner. The price of a lawyer to check this will be a very small price to pay for security.

[Sir George Cayley]

If the deal looks to good to be true....

If this is the first a/c you've bought, I'd be doubly cautious. I've seen far to many pilots buy with their heart not head. And I'm one of them!

Equate the deal to buying a car. Preloved ones are sold for a reason and one can be increasing maintenance costs or unavoidable mandatory items.

Not referring to this particular a/c, I've seen club a/c stripped of newish parts for older part worn ones - vac pumps, starter motors and tyres for instance.

I've also come across an a/c engine log book with to few hours in it for the state of the engine.

I think it appropriate that caveat emptor comes from Italy. Just be careful.

SGC